Aer Lingus to Capetown with two pilots?

[Shamjet]

Looks like Aer Lingus are wanting to hit Cape town from dublin with two crew two engines and one night stop-over
That's gonna be a very busy flight deck!
Anybody got evidence of thought being put into this hairbraned plan?
Aer Lingus have only ever operated on the north atlantic remember.
Is anyone doing this route with two engines or two crew ?

[zed3]

LTU fly A330 a/c between Dusseldorf and Cape Town with a 2 crew cockpit , have done for a while now .

[Bearcat]

will they using their current high mileage 330's or is there fresh metal on the horizon?

[Seat1APlease]

BA used to use the 777 on the lhr-cpt in the off-peak summer season, but it was an overnight flight and I don't think they could even consider doing it two crew for industrial limits if nothing else.

But how on earth are EI going to fill a an aircraft on the DUB-CPT route or is it going to stop in NBO or JNB or somewhere else.

[akerosid]

I recall that the last time CPT was discussed, there was a dispute over bunks, which would suggest that they were looking at a multiple crew. They may well be looking at a single crew operation, but I'd expect IALPA to shoot this down pretty quickly.

DM has already said that long haul is the way to go for EI and somehow I doubt he will be unrealistic enough to press this issue. 12h for a single crew is really not on; I certainly wouldn't want to be on such a flight. And what happens if there needs to be a diversion? Isn't JNB the diversion airport - which would mean, potentially, another two hours tagged onto that.

As for new metal, EI is said to be looking closely at options and the word on the street (so to speak) is that Boeing has offered 777s and 787-900s. Airbus's latest offering, the 350, really doesn't seem to have made any headway with EI; I've heard several rumours about EI's fleet plans, but all surround Boeing aircraft - 777s only, 777/787 etc, but never anything about the A350. Remember, of course, that on the Atlantic routes, a decision on open skies could come pretty quickly and if EI needed to get new aircraft, it would be very difficult to get 332s at short notice, so whichever manufacturer can provide the aircraft EI needs in a short timescale will have a very good chance of getting the EI deal. No doubt Boeing, spurred by recent successes at AI, AC (yes, I know, tiny problem there), QF (by all accounts, imminent) and aware of EI's growth potential, will want to make sure it's seen as EI's partner in that growth.

[apaddyinuk]

If i recall this exact same issue was discussed about two years ago with EI and never came to anything as the pilots union are not stupid enough!

[GlueBall]

It's like a lemon; you can squeeze it over and over...and you'll get another drop. :uhoh:

[abra]

More Americans via Brooksfield perhaps?

[Max Revs]

Not sure what the problem is here? I used to operate LHR-JNB with 3 pilots and used to wonder how that had been set up as the norm with that particular airline, because it was easily achievable with just 2 pilots. I know CPT is further than JNB, but it is still very doable with 2 pilots. Depending on the report time for duty, 2 crew can do up to 14 hours on a single sector and then (if unplanned delays or diversions arise), they can exercise the good old Captain's discretion to extend up to 3 hours further. Plenty of current U.K. operations involve TWO sector duty periods in excess of 13 hours being flown on a regular basis. U.K to Egypt and back on a 2 crew aircraft is another example of a long (but legal) duty which is regularly rostered on British charter aircraft. How about U.K. to Canada and back in a B.737 with no relief pilots? That's being done too out of Gatwick. Consequently, a single sector to Capetown followed by a night in a hotel bed seems pretty tame in comparison!:sad:

[Judge Whyte]

What the source of your info Shamjet?

Just can't see IALPA buying in after the last deal breaker to CPT

[M.Mouse]

Funny enough in my company we have industrial agreements that prevent ludicrously long sectors being flown by two pilots.

It was that pathetic, ineffectual, expensive BALPA that negotiated them but I am sure the IPA would have done much better, no hang on, wait a minute, let me think............well er.........

[Mr A Tis]

All the major UK charter carriers ( Thomson, First Choice, Monarch, My Travel) regularly operate 2 crew flights on flights of around 10 -12 hours, eg MAN or LGW - Cancun.
Iceair also operated MAN-CPT for AV8air on a similar basis last year.

[non sched]

FAA rules in the US limit 2 pilot crews to 8 hours, thank goodness! I can't believe European countries rules allow a 12 hour flight with 2 crew or that the unions would permit it. What I really can't believe is that their seem to be pilots in this thread that think it's a good idea. :mad:

[The Real Slim Shady]

Under most JAR FTL schemes for 2 pilots up to 14 hours is permitted.

[repulo]

Doesn´t sound that bad to me. Usually we do Canary Islands with two stops down there which results in a 12+ hours shift. And those flights generaly don´t start at 9 in the morning..So three landings with two pilots, I´d rather be doing one long sector, specially with hardly and timezone difference.

[Bearcat]

I'd love to hear LEO HAIRY CAMELS slant on this...

[Maxfli]

LTU crew 2 position on aircraft flown DUS - DUB by LTU Crew 1.
The next day crew 2 fly DUB - CPT 12hrs 10mins, and rest in CPT for 7 days.
Crew 3, already in CPT for a week bring the aircraft back to DUB.
Crew 1 who've been in DUB for 2 nights bring the aircraft back to DUS.
Each rotation takes 18 crew nights Hotac.

Check in 1:15 mins
Block 12:10 mins
Post Flt 0:30 mins

Total Duty 13:55 mins before any slot delay.

Further details can be found at: www.2pilotstoCapetown-MYHOLE.com

[TyroPicard]

Under UK CAA rules (CAP 371) this would need 3 pilots - any less and you are doing a disservice to the travelling public.

7 days rest in CPT... I would need a week's holiday to recover!:O

[Shamjet]

looks like some of my info was completely wrong.
They're looking at Capetown with three pilots on minimum turn-around.
They're also about to agree the lease of dormant Qantas A330-200's sitting idle, enabling service of Bangkok, Dubal, San Fran and Capetown/JNB
Also options on Singapore , Bejing

There goes the Surplus! get your C.V.'s ready!

[INLAK]

Is it just me or is anyone else geting a sense of deja vu here.......

"Lets promise the pilots attractive new routes, and maybe they`ll let us shaft them again......"


I`ll believe it when the first a/c takes-off.

[akerosid]

Shamjet, the QF A330-200s are not idle, but are used (pretty intensively) on Australian domestic routes and are very popular. Ultimately, the plan is to put them on long haul routes. Doesn't look as if they are a likely source.

It's not impossible that a deal for Boeings (widely expected) could see an end to A330s, but even if a deal is announced, it could be some time before the 777s arrive (and apparently they are starting with 773s anyway, to replace the 743s), so I wouldn't hold my breath on the QF option.

This underlines one of the key problems for EI, particularly on t/a routes. They don't know when they'll get the rights, which makes it extremely difficult to plan new fleet intake, because they don't know when they'll need them even if they could get them. All thanks to our govt. Thanks guys.