No Job For Outsider

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

I just apply at E.T. and and I received the answer from them.They hire only South African pilot.No other nationalty pilot .
Riccardo Volante

[Cessnafan]

Riccardo,you cant blame them, have you any idea our many unemployed pilots there are in South Africa

[Kopeloi]

Still not fair. Very unusual attitude in this business. I bet there is more South Africans employed outside than this company is able to employ in total...Such decision should have nothing to do if there is unemployed low time Cessna pilots or not in the country.

[surely not]

If a European or American company was o say the same thing they would be hammered to hell and back in the courts and branded as racist and social pariahs.

It seems that there is one rule for an African wanting to work in Europe or America, and a totally opposite rule for a Non-African wanting to work in Africa.

I have read enough threads on here where people have talked about the vast numbers of African pilots flying abroad because the jobs are not available locally, but they don't continue the equation that this must mean African pilots are taking jobs from the many out of work locals in the countries they have gone to. If you don't believe that there are out of work pilots in Europe and the USA take a look at the forums for those areas.

If a pilot has the correct qualifications then they should get equal opportunity for any position, in any country they apply to.

Well that is utopia and probably won't be achieved i n my life time (which hopefully has some way to go yet :D )

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Dear Cessnafan
there is not blame on my topic, but I hope you never be in mine same position to need a job with family to support.
Thank you Kopeloi ,surely not
Guys for all your support.
Riccardo Volante

[skycap]

RICCARDOVOLANTE

You are most probaly not of the required race that seem to be the only eligible ones to be employed.

Keep on trying .

[Cessnafan]

Riccardo and all you others, your views are respected, Riccardo I know how you feel man, I'm an experienced ATPL and finding difficulty in getting a flying post in SA due to the excess of pilots here.
I hope something comes up for you.

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

It is my opinion that when pilots ,like me , are desperate for job they have the tendency to blame others pilot for not getting one,but the reality of the fact,and I say for my own experience,that this dirty game is good only for the operator so they can have not pilots professional but dogs that have to say thank you everyday of their life for having a job.The point is when you see the owner of any air company with nice big cars ,nice dress and so on just remeber that those guys they have to say thank you to us ,because we work hard for let them to have a lot of money.We are professional pilots and not dogs.we are pilots ,not italian ,polish , South African and so on.Just remeber to stay focus on that.Wars between pilots are only useful to damage our category.Remebre when you fly in bad wheater ,when you land with one engine failure. We are PILOTS
it is time that we WAKE UP.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[skycap]

Cessnafan

Interested to know what you term " EXPERIENCED ATPL"

[Woof etc]

huh?

"It seems that there is one rule for an African wanting to work in Europe or America, and a totally opposite rule for a Non-African wanting to work in Africa."

Since when can a South African work in the States or Europe without a work permit or residency?

And then even if you have these, how often will they give you a validation - very seldom.

The SA pilots working outside of the borders of the country are still flying South African Registered aircraft for South African companies in most cases, and there are many non-South Africans flying for these companies. My co-pilot at present is a European, as was my previous co-pilot, as are many of the other pilots that fly for my (South African) company.

Validations are readily handed out by the SA CAA with minimal effort needed to obtain the validation.

Even though I hold a SA ATPL with European passport, what chance do I have of flying in Europe on my licence - pretty much nil unless I retrain for a JAA licence.

"If a European or American company was to say the same thing they would be hammered to hell and back in the courts and branded as racist and social pariahs."

I suggest you check out the application requirements for most European airlines. For example British Airways (britishairwaysjobs.com) state as a requirement:

"Entitled to live and work in the EU without time restriction"

Social pariahs? I think not, more like the norm in any country.

Not sure what you are whinging about.

[Frogman1484]

I remember trying to work in Europe, only to be told that I did not have right of abode. In the USA you get told that you do not have a green card. In Australia you do not have a criminal conviction. Ricardo...get used to it just because you have a pilots lices from Europe it does not mean that you can bypass each countries labour laws...it works both ways mate!!!

[Cessnafan]

Skycap, when I say experienced, couple of thousand hours with all the popular ratings like 90, 200, 1900, 208 etc with decent command time on all types, one would think that would be enough to get a job fairly easily. Whats your opinion on that?

[skycap]

Cessnafan

Yup, you do seem to have the experience. No chance to get in with a regional carrier ?
Hang in there !!

[surely not]

woof, whether by design or mistake you have misunderstood my point.

The question of government permissions wasn't mentioned in my posting because that is a totally different kettle of fish. I'm sure you are aware that a European or American has many governmental hoops to go through to get a permanant position in West Africa, so it isn't very different to Europe for an African. If the company needs you they will make it possible no matter what race, colour or creed you are.

I was talking about the attitude of protectionism based solely on where you come from in the world when being interviewed for a position. On another thread that I have contributed to regularly, the local pilots were complaining that the qualifying requirements for some advertised positions were set too high and that the spec should be lowered to get local pilots into the jobs because it was wrong that ex pats can fly for a West African airline. Actually they were saying in essence was 'I don't have the hours, so lower them'. I believe the airline in question received quite a few applications from local pilots who met or were very close to the qualifications, and quite a few from non locals. The criteria for acceptance was experience and ability, nothing else.
Simple and fair to all, no discrimination at all, which is how it should be in all areas of the world.

[Woof etc]

Whatever blows your hair back, man.

[Cessnafan]

Skycap, thanks, I'm sure my number will come up!

[skycap]

Cessnafan

Where you based ?

[Cessnafan]

Skycap, in JHB, the charter market is slow.

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Dear Frogman1484
you should read my last reply at the present topic a little be better.As I can see nothing change in pilot pride.When we talk about it we forget that. At the time I was in USA I saw many South African and Africa come to work even because to get the validation in USA it is very easy.Now talking about work permit in USA was eanough a student visa or temporary work pertmit that was most of the cases was granted if were going as student "pilot"or with exchange student program.Now talking about Europa you can get the ATPL in England with 2 hours of exams EASA not difficult but same almost of the SA CAA .Please refer to EASA web side.For residensy in EU I know many africans resident in London and also pilots there how do they do that?
If you have a job especially in England you can get very easy the residency in EU.Please go the Embassy of England web and you will find out.
As I said before this form of warsbetween pilots are good only for those operator that needs to have pilots a step down so they can have avalaible little pets for their games.
WAKE UP GUYS
WE ARE PILOTS NOT DOGS
stand up
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

I have been travel around the world and working as pilot also around the world.I share my job with other pilots in needs of job, I share info of opening with others, but what I found out finally that the problem is on us pilots and not any where else if we do not have job or if the conditions of job is not good where we work.We belive if we shut up , if we put down other pilots in front our boss , if we are sun of gun we will have the better job .Will come the time when we we will be in need of others at that point we already have been destroyed the market.I have eard operatos say pilots are handycap,pilots should pay for having a job as pilot. I eard pilots say that pilots complaints too much.I saw pilots died , I saw pilots working in pizzeria,I saw pilots cleaning toilet for living.It is all right? shall we get use to that?Most of pilots always think that will never happent to them .WRONG.I saw many pilots arrogant and selfish pilots loosing their job from company that nobody will never immagine.Than what?Cry for mama?
I guess
Riccardo Volante

[I.R.PIRATE]

Mr Riccardo, I believe you are missing the major point here my friend. What you first have to realise, is that in the current state of the market, we are basically dogs, fighting over the little scraps of jobs that the operators toss our way. If you dont like the imagery, then you gotta go out and strengthen your mind, because those are the facts. Having a pilot's licence makes you no more special than other member of society, and does not guarantee any sort of preferential treatment. When the market is oversaturated, you have to accept that things are not going to be easy, and one often has to make do with the smaller, less glamorous jobs.....IF you can find them. Otherwise, mortgage your house, buy yourself a widebody rating, and then stop moaning. Or grow up, and work your way up through the system. Those of us without the financial means to buy ourselves out of this depression, just have to be patient. Remember... every DOG has his day.

Secondly, nobody specifically denies you a job due to your nationality. The operators are trying to look after some of their local assets too, which I can promise you, does a lot for their image in the eyes of the South African crew members who get given a chance, rather than see the job go to a national of another country. Only when the playing field is levelled, by making it as easy for South African guys to get validations and work permits in the US or Europe, will you have right to complain about not being given a job in SA. Give us third world pilots the chance we deserve in our own country. With your European licence the world is your oyster. Most of us cant afford the licence, and anyway dont have the right to live and work in Europe or the US, so the local operators are the bread which we survive off. Dont complain about those that look after our interests, its just plain selfish.

[Cessnafan]

Well put I.R.Pirate!

[Kopeloi]

Haven't you fellows ever paid any thought that life could be much better if you stop fighting and protecting your scrappy jobs? I can guarantee that if you stop fighting to fly for nothing in those third class jobs and stop back stabbing each others things can only get better.

There is always a market for well runned aviation business with modern airplanes as well as there is a market for scrap like what you try to protect. Do you really like to be part of such in a long term? Just grow up and either have a job as a professional pilot or do something else. Don't live your life like a scavenger and try to convince yourself that this is aviation !

[I.R.PIRATE]

So let me just get one thing straight. Please explain what a PROFESSIONAL pilot is....Im betting youre meaning an airline box office jockey. In the line of work we do, you die if you're not professional, so the mere fact that Im alive must mean something. Remember that not all pilots need to be in Airlines. There is other, much more interesting flying out there, and yes, if you have to scavenge at it, then so be it, it doesnt bother me...Im am a fully fledged contract slut!!! And a professional one to boot.....:ok:

[Kopeloi]

IR PIRATE,

Looks like you are happy what you do, that's good. Try to stay alive and enjoy the bits what others may throw for you.
So who is a professional pilot? I may not be a right person to answer as I newer flew any major airline but I would think that someone who is not scaring paying passengers away...? I did my time in Africa, 6 years. I also flew in USA as well in Europe, now based in Asia. I must admit that I also flew for South African operator on bizjet. Still flying on large bizjets and enjoyning my life. I must say that I do not miss those poorly paid unsecure Twin Otter/Beech jobs very much.
Have fun

[I.R.PIRATE]

See, the biggest problem in SA at the moment, is that there is no movement, from turbines onto jets. For someone who doesnt really have much enthusiasm for Airline type work, that leaves very few options, other than contract work. I was in Corporate flying for a few years, which I loved so much, however, when a company starts to battle....the flight department is usually the first casualty, this can happen to anyone.... Now if there was some sort of feeder movement onto light jets, things would be very different. Trust me, I hate the system as it stands right now, however, I am making the most of what I can get right now, and that is my point. Jobs arent there for the picking any more, so by collecting the scraps, you are ending up with a solid meal. BTW: the contract companies these days, are at least stable, and the pay is not that bad, if you consider that it is such a flooded market. When the crop is bountiful, the price is low..... Scarce things cost the most money.....we are not scarce.....

[Kopeloi]

I understand what you are saying. However, as I said earlier, as long as there are folks willing to work for "free" and to cut each others throats someone will use that situation. There in SA is a very busy and professional outfit operating large bizjets worldwide. Majority of their crews are from outside South Africa, why? I hope that the reason is not because all local heroes are too busy fighting between them selves....
Have fun!

[I.R.PIRATE]

I would hazard a guess that they are not South African crew, because they require jet hours to get onto their shiny jets, and there is nowhere for the average South African pilot to build those hours, so for new pilots they need to look outside, and that basically summises what I am so sad about. This is also why so many people will work for peanuts, because if they did not, they would never get ANY experience, whatsoever, so how does one break this vicious cycle?? Put yourself in the shoes of a pilot that has for example 5000hrs TT, with 4000 on turbines, but the companies want 500 or so hours on jets (if youre lucky). He would fly a jet almost for free, in the dodgiest outfit, so as to make himself employable by a better, more " professional " outfit, thats just the way the industry had manipulated most younger pilots into prostitution. Where is the light??

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

I can see that still there are pilots that will step down others because they want appear to the face of the operator great .Are you one of them I.R.PIRATE ?Do you think that one operator look at you and say "great you are"you dont even care at those of your same nationality ,if some one would offer a job on the B747 you stab on the back even another pilot from your country.Personally I do not want to grow up if that means to be like you.You are just showing how good you are to try to step down others.Big mistake buddy.Not with me .You and pilots like you have to stop to run the market any where in the world.If the market is not douing good is not because of no market but because people tht run the business are not professional.I know many operator that have manager or president that do not even know why an airplane fly, but still they will tell to a pilot that he do not know how to fly.If you feel to be a dog it si your problem .
I am a pilot a professional pilot and I am proud of it .Yes I am special because I am a pilot , because I live like a pilot among others pilotand not among doggy.
Sincerly
Riccardo Volante

[I.R.PIRATE]

No Riccardo, you got this whole picture skewed, because you are reacting bitterly to being rejected. I have no need to defend myself and my ways, as you know absolutely less than zero about me. Do not be trapped into ignorant thinking, and blinded by what you think you mean to the world as a pilot. It will tire you out eventually, because running around all day telling the world you are special, will destroy you. I dont think there is anything wrong with being thankful that I have a salary at the end of every month, to support my family and I. Yes there might be some doggy style, but we like it that way. Now stop crying!!

"Love flying for the right reasons, and you will love it for life....love flying for the wrong reasons, and it will destroy you."

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

You will tire me ? I do not know zero about you?Yes definaly you are you belive to be.You are bitter with the rest of the world just because you have been unable to get job in Europe or USA.That is you problem.You want to fly jets but you canot because in your country with racial problem you can get one and you think that is a problem caused by the Europe and USA .Wake up buddy if that happen is due to the politics of you country do not blame others such I do not blame others country for the problem that I have in my country.I guess you got to stop to step down others.If you want to be a dog pilot it is you problem.I don know what kind of exmple you are for is around your self.And another think me tire me show me what you can do.I remand yopu that yopu too do not know anything about me.And now if you do not like what I do write stop to look at my post .You are not in title to say nothing.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[I.R.PIRATE]

Please wipe the tears out of your eyes when youre busy typing with your one finger, cause clearly you cant see what you're doing.

Or go play with your model aeroplanes, and wait for puberty, are you six years old??

[Woof etc]

"You are bitter with the rest of the world just because you have been unable to get job in Europe or USA"

What the....

You're the one that started the thread whinging that the world was against you because you couldn't get a job.

What do you know about SA politics you bigot.

Go play in traffic pal.

[Frogman1484]

You are correct in the fact that there are a lot of pilots from SA in the US and in Europe. now you can only live and work in Europe if you have a right of abode , which means that you have to have a EU passport. Now a lot of South Africans do have Eu passports, which allows them to work in Europe.
The Us is a different story you can get a permit to study or to do some work, but try and find out what you need to do to gwt in to an airline, and you will find the same thing...US work for US citizens.

[Stayinalive]

Same s*it different day. Not WHAT you know..... it is WHO you know in the industry.
Lots of low time guys picking up the juicy bits.(connections) 10000 hrs n twenty yrs in the industry ..accident free...tonnes of experience....good machines on licence....still have to stand in the queue. Just the way it is.
Still wondering why:confused: ;) ;)

[Airforce1]

I.R. PIRATE and WOOF, totally agree with you.
As for Ricky Ricardo.....our Italian pilot, perhaps the company saw a few spelling mistakes on his CV and realised they would have to invest too much cash to get your english on par(along with the validations etc).Why can't you get work in all those European countries???
Leave the limited African contract market for our previously advantaged, or if you are a African wannabe- Indiana Jones hats for sale at Walmart $5.99

[I.R.PIRATE]

Riccardo, I have spoken to the company in question, and asked as to why you didnt get the job....

They said if you had just let your mother type your application letter, you might have stood a chance, however, you felt grown up enough to do it yourself. I admire that, but next time dont shout at all south africans just cause you wanted to type your own letter. Trust me, Mother does it much better....

[SebasW]

Ricardo

ET is a proudly South African company and if they don't feel the need to employ foreign pilots, no one has the right to tell them otherwise. I am proud of a company that is willing to support the South African aviation industry. Why should you get a job in South Africa, working for a South African company, flying a South African aircraft, when their is alot of South African who is 100% able and qualified to do it???

[Kopeloi]

Maybe for the same reasons than many South Africans getting jobs overseas...

[High69]

Riccardovolante

Dont flatter yourself Mate!
After taking one good look at you, ET probably fed you some bu11sh1t line a-propos to not employing foreigners, as quite obviously it was a ploy to surreptitiously bin your unsightly ass.
They realized you had an aptitude equivalent to a Dog - no wonder you continuously and reverently refer to our most trusted mutts - and so they showed you the door.

What did you expect when you wrote this particular thread? Could it be that you anticipated our deep regret; that we would severely reprimand the respective Company, then give you a pet on the back and send you on your merry way? Go Figure!??

It is confusing why the futile 'irrelevant racism' card always pops it's ugly head into any decent discussion? Possibly since all other avenue's have been exhausted and constructive criticism becomes less obtainable. The "Proverbial Cliche".
It's abundantly clear that you have no other point to make. Consequentially, succumbing to the usual and inevitable dredged up garbage is predictable, yet again.

Go and cry somewhere else - another forum perhaps - as clearly, you cannot hack the rejection so aptly articulated by pilots in this country who are proud of what they do.

We can go on busting you up all day pal. Let's not embarrass you any further. Do us all a favour; put you tail between your legs and beat it!!

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

That it is all you guys can say?
by the way did you get the job at E.T.?
Hurry guys, because we are coming in South Africa to get all the jobs away from you.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
the Proud Italian

[mariusc]

RICCARDOVOLANTE!

Please feel free to apply my friend, if you get the job...! Fantastic, then you have out done many local folk...! However I feel that you are a "brave" Italian, stick with Europian operators, they do hire 500 hour Total Time pilots!

Be my guest...!



:ok:

[Kopeloi]

None of my business but you all sound very childish... I start to understand why it is so difficult to get a proper jobs there.

[AlternativeProcedure]

Have to agree with you Kopeloi, what is the need for the kind of childishness this has reached?

I.R.PIRATE your responses started of so well and matured and then this..

They said if you had just let your mother type your application letter, you might have stood a chance, however, you felt grown up enough to do it yourself. I admire that, but next time dont shout at all south africans just cause you wanted to type your own letter. Trust me, Mother does it much better.... Common!!!

and RICCARDOVOLANTE, if you ask a question or make a statement where you want genuine responses from people, you have to cut out the bull**** and be prepared to accept the fact that people will give you their opinion which is what I.R.PIRATE was doing so well untill the above statement. In this industry, it is trully a matter of who you know, what you know also helps, but knowing the right people will throw you ahead of the game. How do you do that? Network

AP

[I.R.PIRATE]

So sorry AP, the inner child came out to play, when he saw that kiddie tantrums were being thrown. My most humble.....:ok:

[Woof etc]

Entirely justified if you ask me.

Then again, his mother probably cant type either.

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Some you guys are right.
Why did I put my topic in this forum? Simple.

No company can put their own 'looking for pilots"ads for free in this forum ,that is an Africa forum and not only for South African , and than saying that they are looking only for South African pilots only.I contact them for several weeks before this ads spending a lot of money in phone calls and fax.Why they di not tell me before?
Sincerely
RICCARDO vOLANTE

[helldog]

Man this got Catty quickly. Lets all just chill out. Because you know that if you bumped into ricko at the airport you would treat him with respect and I am sure he would do the same for you.

Anyway a few points.

If you have a SA licence you are laughing. So many jobs all over Africa. Ok so if you want to stay in the home town you will have cut your options down. Just like so many pilots in Australia that cry about not getting jobs. They want to get a CPL at their local airport and then step straight into a 402. Not going to happen. Go out bush you WILL get something if you want it bad enough.

Ricko is a nice guy, I have met him.

Ricko, you have made mistakes buddy. You had a job in Arusha, not the best or highest paying but the job was yours and not bad by any stretch of the imagination buddy. You should have taken it while you waited for something else. As far as I can see no one in Tanzania was able to offer you enough money. I am not having a crack at you, just advising. When I was out of a flying job in Oz I didnt wait to starve to death. I got a job in a cardboard factory ammongst others.

ANyway mate I know it is harder for you at your age and with a family to consider, in particullar if you have to take them with you as I belive you do. Hope you get a job soon and wish the best of luck buddy.

Later

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Hello my friend,
nice to ear from you again.Where have you been?Hope you are douing all right.
Thanks for your support.In any case It was not only for money that I did not take te job in Arusha and you knows more I do the situation in Tanzania.My only mistake was not going to Nairobi were I had for sure ready the job with BE1900.I learned the lesson..
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Riccardo....

Look on the bright side. You could have got the job...... :E

[Gooneybird]

There's jobs in Asia for those with hours and an ATP. China airlines etc..

I have no problem with a country protecting jobs for it's own citizens. I'm a Brit myself with an SA license.

There are issues though. SA citizens can get working holiday visas for the UK but don't give them to us for example. I don't mind this and I like to SA citizens in the UK, just be aware of it please.

I also know one SA operator that got SA guys work permits to fly SA registered machines in Europe but refused EU citizens with SA licenses jobs. Now that I do mind.

[helldog]

Hey Ricko,

Yep mate doing alright over here, getting some 406 time for now. Your SA licence is gold for getting jobs in AFrica, but not many places where you might want to take your family. Some operators have planes in ok places. Federal Air I think its called, give them a crack.

ANyway buddy thats the best advice I can give as an Ozzie flying a ZS rego.

Take it easy bud.

[ak6181]

Guys,
Im quite disturbed that pilots would resort to rash and trash comments at each other.
We are not a special breed,but i would expect us all to conduct ourselves in a more matured manner.
Its disheartening to read comments on other peoples mothers and typing abilities! Come-on guys! I think we should all grow up and try to use these forums to help one another.
Ricardo, i think you should take it easy mate,its all gonna smoothen out for you at some point.
I.R. and Woof, please gve the guy a chance to express himself,whichever way he can,obviously,english is not his first language. So, i suggest you guys give the young man a break.:ok:

[Goffel]

:mad:
I dont know why you guys are getting your tits in a tangle.
I gave them a call and was told that I come from the wrong province,let alone the wrong country.:confused:

But the again us Capies have to have a passport to cross the mountains.:E

Ricardo....dont hassel...your ship will come sailing in some day.(ok ok,your aeroplane will land).

Goffel,bored and still by the sea.:8

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

I was looking for job and look what I found :
Rockwell Commander 690 (flexible)


Position:
Pilot


Pay Details:
TBA


Term:
Short Term


Experience Required:

TT 1500 Hours Multi Engine 200 (flexible) Ideally Rockwell Commander 690 experience


Pilot Licence & Docs Required:

FAA CPL/IR Passport FAA Medical


How to Apply:
e-Mail


Contact:

Ian Nunnington, Chief Pilot Gerald Cooper, Project Manager
e-mail: [email protected]

Posting Date:
9/8/2005 6:51:07 AM


Notes:
PILOT MUST BE A MUSLIM


Now what a pilot have to do for a job ?
Be from the right Country
Be from the right Race
Be from the right Religion
Be fluent in the language where you are getting the job
I say again it is better that we pilots stand up at this no sense situation it is going too far
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[longtom]

Ricardo, with your grasp of English, have you considered joining Nature-Link ?

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Dear longtom ,
I would suggest you to get some reading lessons before to say somethink about my finest English.Learn how to deal with that before you post a reply .
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante ( Riccardo with 2 C ) Read well

[Cheekyman]

Riccardo (with 2 charlies),

I can to like to think that you is the bitter man. Why you can to think so in negativity about jobbies in South Africa? You must to make nice efford to like to get the job secured. In the South Africa, you is to can to be able to get a job, but you must to try to stopping complaining. You have to go to the door of company, talking to the people and be the nice man, then you will to try to get position maybe for futuristic purpose. You can to ask for the help here on this forums, many peoples can to give you nicely advise, but not to make you mistake in say that South Africa has the racial problem.

I reading all yous reply Riccardo, but when the pilot can to give you some advising you get very naughty with many replying. My frien, you have to make to try reading slow the post, you can to read many reply is a positive for you. My tong is not english also, and before I read many cycle of this post and I seeing that not all the reply is bad for us foreign pilot.

I trying to understand you to say the "Dog pilot", but I can to try to understand nothing. The pilot making dog fyght or the pilot in the love make scene like dog stile? I can't to understand my frien.

Any way, I hoping for you that you get nice job and thinks working nicely out for you. I now how is difficult to making a pilot in the South Africa, I can to fight hard for it to, but I am the make it later in live, so you can Riccardo!

Hope ok for you now!

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Dear Cheekyman
I am not a bitter man and I do not have anythink about South Africa ,but I can not tollerate the stupidity of some air company that hire pilots with not any sense.Some operators hire if you are black ,some hire if you are white ,some hire you if you are national of that Country ,some hire if you are muslim ,some hire you if you are cristian, some operators hire yopu if you pay for you own type rating .Now that is not good at all, it is offensive.
About be a Dog means pilots that will stab others pilots in order to get the job and that is absolutely stupid.
About South Africa ,I went there this year because one operator offer me a job.I spent several thousands dollars in order to get in South Africa ,money that i took off from my family ,I have a wife an a kid.Then when I was there they send me back home because a pilot ex Rossair was cheaper to hire.Well nothing wrong with that ,but why promise a job ,make spending a lot of money and than sorry good bye?It is not right that.I went in another company in South Africa they also promise a job but until now nothing.Others hire only South Africans because they are cheaper than others to hire and than they make them work outside South Africa .Sorry but if you get a contract for out sideSouth Africa you shouild hire any one that have rthe right qualifications and not only South African citizen .Different story if you want to get a job and work in South Africa at thet point yes I can understand on giving the pryority at South African citizen.
Those wrong abuse from some air operatsor and from some pilots come from the fact that pilots are not togheter .
We need to stand up at all of this because we went too far now.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[contraxdog]

Dear Riccardo,

I read your post and all the replies with great empathy.( My learned friends CC and IRP can summon up their dictionaries for an explanation of that one!)
Its with regret that I hear that you have not found the job you want for the salary you wanted.
I have never managed to do that. Not even when I was the best pizza chef South of the Med.
I have couple of reminder that might help.
1.Get a foot in the door!
2. Pucker up
3. If you dont get in try again, and again, and again,and again.
4.Pucker up
5. Swallow your pride, your kid needs to eat.
6.Pucker up.
7. Take any Job. Its easier to negotiate a resignation than an appointment.
8.Pucker up
9.Dont post on this forum, and spit your bile about SA companies here. They read this forum, and they Remember. Especially if you use in your real name.
10.Pucker up
11. It has been said that the three most important things in Real estate is "location location location". In aviation it is "who knows you"
12.Pucker up.
13. Jump on every opportunity, like you used to on a piece of tail before you were married(I presume)
14. May you have been blessed with good luck.

I heard a story recently that a company that will remain nameless, answered a query by a pilot, of why they didnt appoint him, they replied unlike SAA, that they only appoint SA Citizens. He replied " But I am a SA Citizen!. They replied " So do you think that makes a difference?"

CC,
Your pounce on this poor guy reminded me of the Animal Planet episode I saw where the cheeta mother caught but not killed a young thompsons gazelle and carried it home for her cubs to play with. I didnt matter howmuch the little buck managed to get away from the cubs, mom would go and fetch him again, for more. Until he just laid down and died with out a scratch on him.

Yeah I know Africa is a tough country, boet.
Pucker up!

[Cheekyman]

Deer Riccardo,

I can to think that Mr.Dog is right in this posting. When I first coming to the South Africas, I was to try also to hard. Finaly I make it and get job with airline. Peoples in the airline make me like dogstyle. i having to fight very hard. The peoples making fun of me of my englis and try to dogstyle with me to boss. I prove my self very hard in the flying. Ok, like said, my tong not english, but my hands of pilot, not of dog. I can to see you making it, but you can to have to tae Mr.Dog advis. You have to make diference aproach to aply for job, you can to suceed this manner.

I hoping you the best for you!

[George Tower]

Cheekyman

You're a rude ignorant cretin, now take a hike.

Strange that you registered only a week ago, and your ripping off a guy with a bit of a grievance.

RV,

I think many guys sympathise with you. As you're probably aware unless you have the right to live and work in SA it is difficult to get a job here. Basically that is simply due to the Government's immigration policy.

I don't think it is worth getting into a slanging match about whether it is right or not that foreigners should or should not be employed - period. There are those who will regularly trot out the arument about unemployed pilots and foreigners stealing jobs, food and women etc:zzz:

If you want to work in any country there is always a legal process to go through as a non citizen/permanent resident.

I know it's easier said than done but try and stay positive and engage the guys in a positive way. One of the great aspects of Pprune is that in the real spirit of pprune most chaps are usually full of helpful suggestions/ideas.

I'm still interested as to why no one has commented on your post re. the muslim pilot job offer. I noticed it was a UK contact......surely that is against the law of the UK/EU as it is out and out discrimination. Quite frankly I find such an idea that an airline can operate on such a basis as chilling.

[Phoebe Buffet]

Riccardo: I have been and know of other foreigners who have worked for African companies - it is possible but it is not your right and you have to bring to the table something that company wants ie. a rating, a language, maturity/command, contacts etc. If you don't have it get it.

Try contract companies as they don't need to apply for work visas if you are based outside the company's country of reg.

As with most things in life it's all about timing.

But I believe no hard work is ever wasted so I'm quite sure you will get 'that' job. In the meantime use this time constructively and when you get your call be prepared to make sacrifices/compromises.......we all do.

As for your english; I've flown with guys that couldn't string a conversational sentence together and others who were practically dyslexic it never affected their ability to do a perfect landing and make safe judgement calls.

.........and don't forget however hard it is in Africa there is a LOT more competition in UK - we have very highly qualified pilots from all over the world (EU and commonwealth) vying for jobs.

Good luck.

[Coleman Myers]

RV - do you still have a B200 in grp 1 ?.

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Dear Coleman Myers,
yes I do have p1 on the B200.
Riccardo Volante

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

To get to the point of the situation were we are is evident , but it doesnt seems to me that too many understand the more we fight each others for the glory and the beauty of some "Vampire Operators"the less we get.
Not long time ago I heard an "acting"chief pilot saying:
"I cannot belive 'they pay me for flying"
Lets go back to the real point
"Be proud to be a pilot "
Remember
We are those persons that make the money for the operators so they can drive nice cars,have a nice houses and so on.
If is not my right to get a job ,it is not their right to abuse .
They have to be gratefull to us and not the opposite way.
We make the MONEY for them do not forget.
Do we not let them to destroy our PRIDE of be a pilot.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[I.R.PIRATE]

HI Riccardo. I just have one question for you. Why wont you just let it rest now already....what more are you trying to milk out of this thread. You have gained lots of sympathy from many of the folks here, and we all hold thumbs for you in the future, but really mate.....its time to walk away from it now. I have a feeling that if you spend more time hunting for jobs, and less time ressurecting this boring old thread, you might just be surprised.

ps. Did you ever try and make contact with CLOUD BREAK about B200 jobs in the middle east?? Pm me if you need some inside info.

Ok?

:ok:

Best of luck.

[kingara]

PLEASE GUYS DONT TEAR THIS GUY APART WE ALL HAVE GONE THROUGH WHAT HE IS GOING THROUGH, FOR THE LOVE OF FLYING.THIS INDUSTRY HAVE HIT THE ROCK BOTTOM MOST OF US ARE GOING UP HILL BUT PRETTY MUCH SOON WE WILL ALL BE CRUISING DOWN HILL,RIC NEVER FEEL SORRY FOR YOUR SELF IN LIFE,ITS NOT A BED OF ROSES.I ONCE WAS AT THE SAME POSITION LOW HOURS,BROKE WITH NO HOPE IN SIGHT AND I WILL GIVE YOU SOME GOLDEN ADVICE. I TOOK A JOB WITH A SMALL REGIONAL AIRLINE AS A CUSTOMER SERVICE.ONCE INSIDE I SET UP BEING THE BEST AT WHAT I WAS DOING, MOST IMPORTANT IS [ATTITUDE AND WELL GROOMED] I TREATED MY BOSS WHO WAS A VERY BEAUTIFUL BRODE LIKE A QUEEN. I NEVER KISSED UP NOR LOOSE MY DIGNITY.TWO YEARS LATER I WAS ON THE RIGHT SEAT ON AN EMBRAIR.TODAY I"M THE CAPTAIN.SO RIC KEEP YOUR HEAD HIGH DONT GIVE UP AND YOU WILL PREVAIL.REMEMBER THE BEAUTIFULL BOSS, SHE IS NOW MY WIFE.GOOD LUCK RIC,AND LETS ALL BE HUMBLE GIVE THIS GUY A CHANCE TO EXPRESS HIMSELF, HE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE AN ENGLISH PROFFESOR.

[4HolerPoler]

HE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE AN ENGLISH PROFFESOR
And, quite clearly, neither did you kingara. A complete command of the English language is not a prerequisite to post on this forum but it would be greatly appreciated if you would avoid using CAPITAL LETTERS for your posts - this is only your second post - the first had no capitals, this has only capitals - locate your Caps Lock button on your keyboard & learn to use it please.

4HP

[kingara]

I dont mean no harm to no body, I was only trying to look out for Ric,It doesnt cost nothing to uprift somebodys spirit, might make somebodys day,hope l made yours by using the CAPLOCK,Please if you have nothing positive to offer other than pointing fingers stay on the sidelines.I speak and write four different languages,l dont teach none of them.FEEL ME?

Yup, (blushing now) I FEEL YOU kingara. 4HP (What us mod's have to do to keep you lot happy) ;)

[MysticFlyer]

Ciao Riccardo,

I'm in a economic mood here in a pizzachart way you know....you're from Italy, Correct?

Did you have any successes yet, with the job man, hey I'm sure you being Italian must be attractive!

Me, I read the Godfather once and I think the Sicilians (or Mario Puzo) really gave you Italians a bad name man. It's really not true that behind every great success, is a (great) crime. We in SA know that man!

I remember a company in SA, well I think it was - Fatti's&Moanies or what was it again....?

Why don't you contact the owner, he could be also an Italian, many of them in SA, Berlusconi type guys, very rich you know and very nice (pizza's too) of course.

Maybe you two can then start - SPAGHETTI AIR cc.

LCC I would go, I can see the slogan: "Cheap on da ticket - andha bastha, wies di Pasta!"

I think the Italian club last was in Bedfordview or was it Edenvale, I'm sure another nice guy that was involved with a place on the threshold of 03R could also be of assitance perhaps. Now...he is a....how can I say this.....a really stand-up guy!

You see, there's all sorts of nice people in SA.

Capish?

Your friend in Africa affairs
MF :E

[Douglas Lee]

Dear Riccardo

I been reading this thread since the beginning, I really think it's time now to spent your time on looking for a job somewhere else.The time and effort you put into this is noted and appreciated, please stop now, it's gone on way to long.

DL

[African Tech Rep]

As no one had answered Mr Towers point about UK/EU law and the advert – and I have a sad life – I looked into it a bit more.

I think it’s correct that if the was a UK job the advert would be “borderline”, but belive there are certain circumstances where it would be OK – ie this condition for someone working in a Mosque might be allowable.

In the case of the advert they are asking for FAA Licences – so it isn’t going to be a UK reg Rockwell. But more importantly “talk21.com” is a mail drop site, free set up aka hotmail, so you can call yourself what you like – in other words it’s not a real company (the advertiser I mean).
We could be nice and say it might be a startup recruitment agency who have been asked to find a pilot for a rich middle east guy who owns a N reg Commander.
Or considering it’s easy to set up a company domain and UK Ltd Co (100UKP max) we might wonder if it’s a serious advert.

Mystic – I take it the “stand up guy” is also a bit wet ?
For everyone else – look at what’s “on the threshold” of 03R