PDA

View Full Version : QF interest in SYD-LON 777-200LR


Trash Hauler
13th Jul 2005, 01:47
July 12, 2005 (Flight International) - Australian flag carrier renews interest in Boeing airliner’s potential for achieving non-stop ultra-long-haul flights

Australia’s Qantas Airways is showing renewed interest in the Boeing 777-200LR as the US manufacturer edges closer to offering an “economic payload” on potential ultra-long-haul services from Sydney.

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said at the UK Aviation Club in London last week: “While we ordered the [Airbus] A380, we’re also looking very seriously at the 777LR, and, if Boeing gets its maths right, it could be what we call our ‘hub-buster’ strategy.”

Dixon says that, although the A380 is required to boost capacity at slot-constrained airports, non-stop flights from Sydney to London remain the “holy grail”, enabling it to avoid stopping in hubs such as Singapore or Bangkok. He says Boeing is “now not too far from getting an economic payload into London”.

The still-air distance from Sydney to London Heathrow is 17,000km (9,190nm), but allowances for headwinds and minimum fuel reserves require a range of 17,600km. At a stop on the 777-200LR’s world tour at London Gatwick last week, Boeing officials said the aircraft’s official range had been extended to 17,400km, or about 19h based on 301 passengers and with three auxiliary tanks. Brad Till, regional director product marketing at Boeing Commercial Airplanes, says 500h of testing has shown its range is “a few hundred nautical miles more than expected”.

Boeing saw similar gains with the 777-300ER, which was originally expected to fly 13,300km, but achieved 14,700km due to an increased take-off weight, better-than-expected fuel consumption in cruise and a package of drag- reduction, engine-performance and weight-reduction enhancements (Flight International, 25 January–1 February).

But Till warns: “We’re still a little bit short of Sydney to London, even with this aircraft.” He says the route is one of a few specific customer demands that are “beyond the reasonable”.

Qantas is also interested in using the aircraft for direct services to New York Kennedy airport – a flying distance of 16,000km from Sydney, says Dixon.

He says the -200LR must be able to operate to London without a payload penalty: “For us it’s not a trade-off of passengers for range. We are an airline that needs to make money – we don’t do loss-leading flights.”

Boeing says it will attempt a record-breaking 24h flight with the -200LR in September.

Buster Hyman
13th Jul 2005, 03:09
19 hours with QF FA's....I don't think so Tim!:} :ouch:

SMOC
14th Jul 2005, 13:59
Apparently the -200LR will be in Sydney on Sunday.

SMOC

StuntDriva
14th Jul 2005, 14:09
Buster, you haven't been on QF up to London lately with the London based FA's:D
19hrs with them sounds good to me! ;)

Transition Layer
14th Jul 2005, 17:10
Stuntdriva, haha...

From what I've heard there's a few glamours in which case I'd only need 19 seconds. :}

TL

shaablamm
14th Jul 2005, 17:23
If there is a few glamours, it's obvious that QA didn't do the recruiting. It must have been done by a private company?? :ouch:

haughtney1
14th Jul 2005, 19:39
Long-range it mayby.....punctual it aint. Damn thing kept us waiting for the stand it occupied for 45 mins!

:rolleyes:

Ultralights
14th Jul 2005, 23:58
just hope those toilet waste tanks are big enough for 20 hrs plus of shite

Trash Hauler
15th Jul 2005, 01:05
The still-air distance from Sydney to London Heathrow is 17,000km (9,190nm), but allowances for headwinds and minimum fuel reserves require a range of 17,600km. At a stop on the 777-200LR’s world tour at London Gatwick last week, Boeing officials said the aircraft’s official range had been extended to 17,400km, or about 19h based on 301 passengers and with three auxiliary tanks. Brad Till, regional director product marketing at Boeing Commercial Airplanes, says 500h of testing has shown its range is “a few hundred nautical miles more than expected”.

Maybe the auxiliary tanks are for the crappers!
:D

enicalyth
15th Jul 2005, 21:28
Boeing quoted to me MTOW = 348T; OWE say 147T; 300 pax = 30T; max fuel = 162T including the three 1850 US Gall tanks in the aft compartment. That gives you 339T at brake release with no freight/excess and 348T with 9T freight/excess. Or to put it another way either 177T or 186T ZFW. In still air they said 9250nm in that config and were confident that a little improvement was in hand. I seem to recall L888 as a route mentioned that was okay as regards driftdown but its a bit longer than a GC route. So it close but maybe no cigar yet.

MrApproach
18th Jul 2005, 09:23
Hub busting! And I was silly enough to think, just for one moment that QANTAS meant everyone else in Australia wouldn't have to visit Sydney if they want to leave the country. (QANTAS Note - SIA have three daily services Brisbane- Singapore with 777-200, what's that 1000 seats. QANTAS one A330 daily that deliver you to Changi in time to be crammed onto the SY or ML 747s to Europe) The other airlines probaly call it QANTAS busting.

Karmakoma
18th Jul 2005, 11:48
Saw the Big Girl on the corporate apron at Sydney this morning. That is one sexy machine:ok:

Condensation
18th Jul 2005, 21:25
On the Boeing website, there has been an order of 5 B777s for an Unidentified customer, which people are saying for Qantas.

Buster Hyman
18th Jul 2005, 21:52
Nah! Those 5 are for Rex! They're hub busting ABX!

Sunfish
18th Jul 2005, 22:00
Hub Busting? I wish1 If QF had their way EVERYONE would have to leave or enter Australia via Sydney.

Whats the betting that F move all maintenance and support other than the A380 from Sydney?

Johhny Utah
18th Jul 2005, 23:04
Get over it Sunfish - everyone knows where you stand re: the chip on your shoulder against Sydney :{

As for the A380 maintenance - most of the QF/SQ merger talk recently was probably created against the back ground of QF/SQ negotiating shared A380 maintenance facilities (most probably in Singapore). As such there's probably little chance of the A380 maintenance being done in Sydney...

sys 4
18th Jul 2005, 23:36
don't be so sure it's not going to happen in Sydney(A380 maint),new store's facailty is nearly finished and old stores area will be demolished to make way for new hangers.
Up to 2 hangers are set to be built for the A380 aircraft,dates to be set.

hangar 9
19th Jul 2005, 01:28
Maybe the auxiliary tanks are for the crappers!

That's definitely on the cards, some new design features in future aircraft will be the ability to make water in Flt, reducing the necessity to take off with large quantities of water, reducing takeoff weight. And you are close to the mark with sharing aux tanks for sh!t. There is talk of having a bladder in the tanks that allow waste to be stored as fuel is used. Dumping waste has also been discussed, so far they are only considering the excess fluids and not the solids.

Blue rain over Bahrain

Trash Hauler
19th Jul 2005, 03:48
Now if they could only turn the sh:mad:t into fuel in flight..................Sydney to London would be no problems!

:ok:

sys 4
19th Jul 2005, 08:24
hanger 9,why would you want to store waste in bladders inside fuel tanks,I realise that the flights are long,but the tanks inside a 747 are not that large and they cater for much more paxs

hangar 9
20th Jul 2005, 11:24
The discussion is about B777 not B744 and although the waste tanks don't appear to be large. When they are full of waste and stored in the rear of the aircraft it has a significant effect on the load ( C.G.) and fuel for landing. Fuel used to be stored in rubber bladders and fuel leaks were very rare, so with a collapsible bladder situated towards the middle of the aircaft it is a very real and feasible solution to reducing fuel burn. This coupled with a system of siphoning of fliuds and dispersing them at altitude also reduces fuel burn. In aircraft 20 years ago systems of waste filtration argueabley could produce flush water that was pure enough to drink. Therefore enviromentally it would also not create a problem.

Taildragger67
12th Aug 2005, 22:51
Little note in this month's Airliner World (top of p.22) says Qantas is in discussions with Boeing about an order for 30 but is "currently completing a technical audit of the new B777-200LR before confirming its exact requirements".

Any ideas/updates on timing of order announcement?

Sorry if this has been done to death elsewhere; I took a look but couldn't find anything recent.

Thanks