Ryanair hires FAA/ US B737 Captains via Brooksfield (merged)

[Frozen Turtle]

Well it speaks for itself.......

Ryanair is getting desperate as it seems. How they arrange work permits for US pilots is a complete mystery to me?


From the job section of FI.

737 Captains to fly in Europe
Miami Sim assessments/interviews


Quote: We already have a number of pilots booked into the simulator in Miami to be assessed and interviewed to join us to work in bases in Europe for Europe's largest and most succesfull low cost carrier.We still do however require a few more Captains current within the last 5 years on the 737 EFIS or N/G. Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains with time on other heavy jet aircraft will be offered the opportunity to take a self financed type rating courrse to fly the NG. All contracts offered are for a 5 year duration, and this opportunity offers the rare chance for Captains on this side of the Atlantic to fly and live in Europe. FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this. We are looking for a large number of Captains at this stage - please note those who have already replied will be on the schedule and will be informed within the next 48 hours.:confused: :confused:

[wingandprayer]

well, well,well, can MOL really bend the rules that much?

Thought you couldn't fly a JAA registered airplane without the correct licence. This implies that the IAA are rather spineless.

I know of guys who have applied to Ryanair, withn the correct ratings and not heard a dickie bird.

Can I go fly in the US please?

[Formally Known As]

Why are you surprised? Air Atlanta Iclandic have been getting validations for years, for pilots to fly JAR registered A/C and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

Yes the JAA are spineless and operators are taking advantage.

Would a JAR licenced pilot get a validation to fly a US registed A/C? Like hell.

Would that same pilot get a work permit to work in the US if he required it? Never!

It's the old story, Europe or anything to do with it are weak and always will be.

[Bmused55]

Thought you couldn't fly a JAA registered airplane without the correct licence. This implies that the IAA are rather spineless.

Did you miss the sentence in the article that specificaly deals with that?

FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. I've heard of FAA licensed pilots getting a 6 or 12 month temporary grant to fly European Aircraft.... I think an assessment including simulator checks and written papers is required. Not absolutely sure of that and this info is second hand.

[Joe_Bar]

And the IAA is not spineless but the country that allows these work permits is!

[click]

I can't wait for the opportunity to take a self financed type rating....what a weiner.

[beernice]

Heard it all before. Last year DOB was telling us to behave or we could be replaced by people only looking for $1000 a month. Appearently there were plenty of people that would kill for our jobs. First the new EU states had pilots desperate to join, then the Russians were coming, then all the ex-volaire, next the hungarians and now the Americans. Needless to say the promised floods never arrived. The tide has turned and by Jan Ryanair will have serious crewing problems. A clear case of you reap what you sow.

[threemiles]

What do you think is the problem to get a five year work permit in Europe? This is not the U.S.

Once the company you are employed with sends a fax to the passport authority everything is set. (At least for specialized jobs). Prolongation works exactly the same. My airline has employeed ground staff from the U.S. for many many years here in the center of Europe. Never had a problem.

[Cosmic Star]

At a recent recruitment Day I met a number of South American 737-200 rated Captains who had been promised work permits and validations, which suprised me as Ryanair had said in the past that "Under no circumstances would they apply for work permits".

[Wing Commander Fowler]

And the IAA is not spineless but the country that allows these work permits is!
That would be ireland then! :zzz:

[My 737]

Now, would this not be something for REPA and IALPA to have serious look at?

[unfazed]

"Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains"

can't see what all the fuss is about, these are experienced captains with transferable knowledge and skills competing in a global industry and a global profession- they are people who have worked hard to get the qualifications - why should they be prevented from doing what they can do just because of the green eyed monster of greed, envy and self serving protectionism ?

[wingandprayer]

Whilst I have no problem with transfer of profession within the world,it would be nice if it were a level playing field. I feel a little miffed when I cant get a job in France, Germany, Holland, Spain, New Zealand, Australia, USA and have to scratch for a living whilst natives of the aforementoned countries seem to have no problem in UK/Ireland. Whlst life isnt fair in general, it would be nice, in the face of the largest global migration, if it went more than one way!!!

[Bmused55]

I second that wingandprayer!!

hit the nail on the head

[bear11]

What's this tripe about work permits? How many people from Ireland and the UK work in the US? And before I get savaged, I said people - not pilots. Are you seriously suggesting it doesn't or shouldn't work both ways? And that countries who do are spineless?!! The words tree, wrong, barking, and up in a different order spring to mind.

[the grim repa]

totally agree wing and prayer.

[maxalt]

Bear11, the question of allowing professional or skilled jobs to be recruited abroad is a completely different one to allowing casual labourers to work on building sites or in restaurants.
I think both US and Irish Immigration agree on this - employers are restricted in obtaining work visas by having to show they cannot recruit locally for the position offerred.

How hard has FR tried to recruit pilots? Are they offerring market T&C's?

This has nothing to do with immigration policy, and everything to do with union busting.

[Rick Binson]

Bear11. Non-pilot US and EU citizens working in each others countries are fine. It can be done by both sides relatively easily.

But you'll find no EU pilots getting 5 year contracts in the USA even if they were available......very protectionist. We must do the same in Europe until the playing field is levelled.

[unwiseowl]

Are these pilots not going to cost rather a lot? To attract an experienced 737 captain, a US citizen, to another country, plus Brookfields' cut is gonna be ££££

[Seat1APlease]

This might seem like a daft question, but whilst I accept that the Irish Government can issue a work permit for someone to work in Ireland, can they issue a work permit for someone to live and work at Stansted or in another EU country or are they only recruitng USA nationals for the Dublin base?

[unablereqnavperf]

Balpa and its fellow european organisations should resist this completely until European pilots have the right to live and work as freely in the good old USA! not that i'm ever interested in working there myself ever!

I have no objection to fellow proffesionals coming over here to work but it must work both ways!

[unfazed]

Wingandprayer - I would like to understand why you can't get a job in some of those countries (especially the European ones that you mention) - Have you got the level of experience and qualifications that they are looking for ? I know friends of mine who are working in Germany and Spain

[E1-11]

Guys whats all the fuss about. Ryanair aren't going to hire many US guys...this is just simply an excuse for the Senior guys to have a jolly in States!!! You wait and see...;)

[Bart O'Lynn]

If the yanks have 3000 or more on 737 and 1500 p1 on same, they may be eligible for a licence swap not a validation under jar. I heard of a pilot from africa with a licence printed on bog paper (and a 200 rating with a miraculous amount of hrs for the time on type and routes available) recently interviewed and the licence swap was the way forward. the caa is the last line of defence, in assessing applications for this swap but as they use the irish ,who knows. At least the yanks have come thru a system where an apprenticeship of some years will have been served to reach the left seat of a jet. Not a clandestine meeting in the the bush or behind a hotel to faciltate evrything from a ppl to a 777 rating. Not a generalisation , fact.

[wingandprayer]

unfazed...just for info......7000 hrs.........5000 jet.........737efis and NG rated........LHS.........working for peanuts at a third rate company. No interviews with any UK company despite meeting everyones requirement. Like i said life isnt fair. This industry is all about right place/right time. I am not bitter , just want a chance like everyone else. So do feel agrieved that as a UK citizen I am forced to work for a foreign company because of company's recruitment policies.

[Farrell]

Bart O'Lynn ......... check your PMs :)

[unfazed]

wing and prayer

You have the hours, you have the experience so how about attitude, personality & track record ?

You say that you are forced to work for a company that you obviously despise - who made you do that ?

Stop being such a whinger and go and make your "luck" happen

[wingandprayer]

unfazed....you asked me a question, i replied. You have never met me spoken to me or know nothing about me.
Please keep your personal 'opinions' to yourself. This thread is not for personal attacks. Oh snd what is your experience.?

[Wing Commander Fowler]

.......... gone quiet for a little while! Hehe! ;)

[unfazed]

Wing Commander Fowler

Nothing personal intended, just puzzled why you are having difficulty with such good experience and qualifications???

I do not have the qualifications that you have but I do have a lot of experience interviewing candidates for jobs and I know that attitude, personality and track record are what hirers are also looking for

Sorry if I hit a sore point !

[Atlanta-Driver]

What would you guys US ALPA would say if there where a bunch of European pilots flying around for Southwest or Jet Blue. It would be a bloody riot.
It is not the job of the respective CAA to control the flood of "Foreign" labour into a EU country rather the it is the job of the governments to do it.

A good formula to keep the undesirables out is: Work permit as a prerequisite for a validation. No work permit, no validation, no job.

AD

[ironbutt57]

!) there are indeed many UK/EURO pilots flying in the USA.......I agree that US pilots shouldn't fly in Europe or the UK...just as they shouldn't have 60 years ago either....'course then we brought our own planes:ok:

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Whoa Nelly!!!

Don't drag me into this....... Unfazed I'm guessing your reply was for wingandaprayer since you have no idea about my experience - I am but a humble bricklayer........ :ugh:

[unfazed]

Wing commander you are correct, reply was not for you.

I am not attacking wing and prayer personally (as he quite rightly says I don't know him). I am just pointing out that attitude, track record and experience count just as much as paper qualifications. and national boundaries.

[wingandprayer]

unfazed.. we had a saying in the service.....'be the grey man'.
That I tend to stick to.

I cause no trouble, do what is legally rostered, steer clear of writing contentious letters/e-mail to management, try to get on with people. Never had a major incident, treat my crew with respect. But I will not be bullied or pressurised into endangering my crew and its contents.
Whilst I will admit to the odd moan, after all I am a pilot,

It would be nice to get invited for an interview.
As you seem to have experience in the personnel field perhaps you could help me understand how one guages the points you raised from a standard application form.
Other similar experienced people form my company have been interviwed by companies that we all applied to at the same time.

It remains a mystery to me. I am not a proud man and will quite happily take advice from one who in experienced in a field that is a mystery to most.

[Arkroyal]

But I will not be bullied or pressurised into endangering my crew and its contents.? Can't all be pregnant, surely :D


The problem is, and always has been, within Europe, that to work in the UK, and aviation in general, you need English.

For a Brit to work elsewhere, he/she needs the local language.

So..................... Non-brit european needs to learn one language he/she was not taught from birth. Brit.....................learn 24 more.

[Tamer]

These Captain positions are being advertised by a agency, to work in Europe for a Low Cost carrier. The line that interests me is the one I have highlighted. How is this possible ? They do not mention having the right to live and work in Europe. Comments please.


'We already have a number of pilots booked into the simulator in Miami to be assessed and interviewed to join us to work in bases in Europe for Europe's largest and most succesfull low cost carrier.We still do however require a few more Captains current within the last 5 years on the 737 EFIS or N/G. Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains with time on other heavy jet aircraft will be offered the opportunity to take a self financed type rating courrse to fly the NG. All contracts offered are for a 5 year duration, and this opportunity offers the rare chance for Captains on this side of the Atlantic to fly and live in Europe. FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this. We are looking for a large number of Captains at this stage - please note those who have already replied will be on the schedule and will be informed within the next 48 hours. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this '

[unfazed]

Wingandaprayer

While the rest of this discussion degenerates into a nationalistic slagging match I would like to help you if I can with some general info.

When it comes to application forms the main aim is to list the qualifications that are relevant for the job and keep it simple HOWEVER there are normally a couple of "open" questions which are designed to test your reasoning and motivation for the job. This is where many people stitch themselves up without realising it. Questions such as "Why do you wish to join airline XYZ", "Explain why you are interested in this role" etc -

My advice is to keep it simple ! List reasons as main bullet points with some explanation as well (but keep it simple).

If you meet the mandatory experience and qualifications then you should get an interview HOWEVER - Employers will normally check current employer for a reference (that could be an unknown variable negative/ positive or neutral)

Some examples of a "read between the lines" negative reference "Joe has very high standards and I am sure that he will eventually find an employer who will match his demands "

Bottom line is that applications for these jobs are many and the jobs are few, most jobs are networked via friends or chance meetings (right place right time). The aim is to get your application NOTICED so

1 - Do not be the "grey man" - Be concise but grab their attention with your responses (but leave them wanting to know more)
2 - Get out and about and hand deliver where possible so that you can meet people and turn that bit of paper into a positive experience
3 - Network with friends and let them know that you are in the market
4 - Enjoy the current job and forget about how naff the money is - If it really annoys you that much then ask for a meeting and try to re-negotiate a better deal (at least then your consciense will be clear when they get reference requests for you)

Hope this helps, I suspect that you are already propably doing some of the above. I hope I haven't annoyed you with my earlier posts but I was hoping to make the point that you are always in control because they are your life decisions.

Best of luck and I hope that you get a better job soon !

[RobertFL]

I feel like putting my 3 pennies into that conversation.
I am from europe currently in usa for many years, and as you know and from my own observation regardless of profession usa is highly protective about their job market , people who have no green cards have no chance of getting employement. If one is a foreigner and has a green card has still hard time getting employement if there are plenty americans for the jobs.
People face it Americans love Americans born citizens rest is just a slogan.

[Tamer]

'Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this '
The simple question is, is this legal ? or is it already happening, someone mentioned Air Atlanta (I have met a few AA pilots who were American but thought they had the right to live and work in Europe, through birth or other)

We have been through a long period of recruitment drought and Iwould like to move up the ladder now things are looking better, but I fear this will not happen if the above becomes common place. Where is the representation of European pilots rights, because sure as **** the Americans have thiers. I would not be able to get a job serveing coffee on an american aircraft.

I would like to hear from any American pilots and thier views on the situation.

[Turkish777]

If you are Mexican and have gardening skills the USA will generally let you in as it seems they have in fact conquered the landscapping markets...Allegedly the US Goverment turn a blind eye on 200,000 Mexicans immigrants crossing the border evey year to do manual work as its difficult to find locals to fill the positions...Good job the're not all FAA Rated.....

:E

[Boss Raptor]

If in fact the destination of these non EU citizens is in fact Ryanair;

This matter has been raised before on these forums with the non EU Ryanair B737 crews from Yugoslavia on apparent Irish work permits then being long term based at Prestwick (UK)

The situation appears the same and as it appears that non EU crews are becoming 'ordinarily resident' in the UK both in nature of place of work and in case of where in fact taxable the situation should be addressed further...

Should recommend both Dept. Work/Pensions in UK should these non EU crews be seen to be operating 'ordinarily resident' in UK without correct UK work permits and also the Inland Revenue with regard to tax liability...as well as UK CAA

[Formally Known As]

Tamer

I am not aware that any AAI pilots are working without work permits, from their bases.

I am aware however that the Icelandic CAA give out 12 month validations for ICAO/FAA to fly JAA registed A/C. and are renewed yearly. This cannot be right or fair can it? What about the person who has got off their backsides, have spent a great deal of money, time, sweat and tears to get a JAA licence when they could have saved themselves a fortune, by obtaining an FAA licence for example and operate on a validation.

It used to be that a JAA member state would grant a validation so the crewmember could within the 12 months complete the necessary licence conversion.

IMHO there is abuse of this system by the Icelandic CAA and others.

[Stratocaster]

FKA,

don't forget that all that JAA stuff is not binding. It's the lowest common denominator achieved by JAA member states but it is not an EU law in force in every country.

Iceland has the right to deviate from the original rules, add its pinch of salt, tailor them to its needs and then transpose them into Icelandic regulation. And voila, you have Icelandic "JAA-like" regulations and licenses recommended for mutual recognition in JAA countries !

If the Icelandic CAA agrees to deliver a validation to the same pilot for several years in a row, it's both legal and JAR-compliant.

Now that EASA takes over and what they publish is EU law (binding in all EU member states as soon as it's approved by the EU Parliament and published), I'm curious to see what will happen with this validation thing.

[Formally Known As]

Hi Stratocaster

Many thanks for the input. I stand corrected on that.

It just goes to prove that Europe as a whole are week. They cant even get their act together and implement a common agreed aviation language. They never stood up and had the stomach for a fight to defend themselves (British Isles excluded of course) in the middle of last century, so I guess we can't expect too much too soon this century. JAA? What a joke.

[E1-11]

Guys...its only a jolly trust me!!! :p

[Ignition Override]

If it is that unbalanced, then the Ryanair issue is certainly not fair.

Our US pilots want to avoid any possibility of allowing "cabotage" into the US, foreign pilots flying point to point, all inside the US. Pan Am had a hub years ago in Germany. They never should have been allowed to operate there-it was not fair to German pilots. This country should not use the horrible conflict in the 1940s to justify that, or a hub in the Pac. Rim. Any justification can not hide some hypocrisy on our part. A slightly different situation was flying cargo (DHL?) DC-8s from Brussels to various cities. The legalistic arguement is that the flights were between two countries, or more. Off topic, but one of our FAs is married to a French guy-did the French reject the constitution mostly to embarass Chirac? Never mind. This is naiive, but can a European constitution prevent any of this?

I chatted briefly with a Ryanair flight attendant crew (wearing yellowish scarves) in Milwaukee about a year ago. The Lead Purser admitted that she lived in Dusseldorf, Germany. One of our furloughed pilots worked briefly as 320 FO for Ryanair, from St. Louis to the Caribbean (only turn-arounds). He seemed to indicate that most pilots he came across were furloughed from US airlines.

I don't blame you guys one bit, for being upset if your aviation authorities allow numerous pilots from here to 'whitewash' their licenses and work there. One guy who was on our jumpseat months ago might have stated that some limited number had already been based in Ireland for a while, but I can't remember for sure. They might have had a rent subsidy or such, but it was only a quick chat. There are a limited number of foreign guys/gals working for my company who have been in the US for a while. They are from the Netherlands, Sweden, the Middle East, at least one guy from England. A regional affiliate at one time had quite a number, who were somehow sponsored. Some went to my company.

[FRying]

US mates, please consider this : don't go work for Ryanair as this is the ****tiest airline to work for in the western world. You'll never find T&Cs you tend to find in the US. FOrget about unions, Hello pilots-hatred.

Just Flee or pick airlines such as Easyjet.

[Telstar]

Ignition Override, Eh.. Are you talking about Ryan Air or Ryanair?

One of our furloughed pilots worked briefly as 320 FO for Ryanair

They have never had an A320.

[JJflyer]

Some of you mix Ryanair od Ireland with Ryan International of USA. Nothing to do with each other.

JJ

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

"They have never had an A320"

I think they might have, certainly had one painted up in their colours, whether they actually operated it or not I dunno.

[Flyrr100]

Speaking as an American FAA Captain. This would never happen here. Airlines in the USA use seniority for all and any upgrades. I remember when I was flying commuters, we hired some 'street captains' to fly the J31. Just because we were growing so fast we needed them yesterday. But they were on the bottom of the seniority list and only flew what their seniority would allow.
We also have pretty strong unions who wouldn't allow anyone to fly as captains unless they were senior enough to hold the position.
I'll give a current example. We are currently taking delivery of a number of EMB170s. They are being flown by nine month captains. But only because very few of the senior guys want to fly them. Our contract wouldn't allow contract captains to fly our aircraft.
Ryanair needs to be unionized. If not you guys will be flying next to anyone the company wants to hire or contract to fly for you.

[MarkD]

FR has had A320 hire-ins - Eirjet had one operating for them earlier this year IIRC. Don't recall any operated by FR.

[Elifant]

Hi all

just for all those who did not know so far Brookfield is basicly owend by Ryanair so they basicly do just cover RYR interests....

Hi all

Well, about upgradings within RYR.... For all those who are promissed a quick caommand process within RYR so to say within six month etc. Do not beleve it it just will not happen and basicly is just a trick to get experianced F/O. I know just one case of about 40 guys where this promise was kept!!!!!

[Ignition Override]

Telstar, it might have been Ryan Air. Believe a few of their planes had a small German flag by an aft exit. Pardon the mix-up. Did not know there were two with the same name.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

This would never happen here. Airlines in the USA use seniority
And finally here it is, the slobbering two headed behemoth who has single handedly brought the airline industry of the United States to its very knees, and yet you have the bare faced effrontery to say that yours is an example we here in Europe should emulate? I don't know whether to laugh out loud or reach for a sickbag.
We also have pretty strong unions who wouldn't allow anyone to fly as captains unless they were senior enough to hold the position.
We here in Europe prefer that inconvenient old-fashioned notion of experience and suitability. Seniority is a hackneyed, outdated hangover of the industrial revolution and should be done away with. It creates dead wood, stiffles mobility of labour, and at its worst excesses, so ably demonstrated at present in the land of the free and the home of the brave, brings a once proud and profitable industry to the verge of anhilatiion. Take a look at your own pityable examples, my American friend. Delta suffocating under a mountain of debt and continuing to lose money with wild abandon. Once proud UA trying desperately to off load their underfunded pension liabilities, unsuccessfully thank heavens because it would be the shot heard around the world and the trigger for, in my view, a global recession. Don't take my word for it, though, have a look here (http://www.atwonline.com/magazine/article.html?articleID=1295) and you can see for your self what the likes of your diabolical scope clauses and clinging like some demented octopus to your ludicrous seniority systems has resulted in. You must be so very proud of yourselves.

Ryanair needs to be unionized.
Horse****, pilgrim. Ryanair needs to be unionised only if we aspire to the kind of union driven appocalypse currently being experienced across the pond. Our industry here in Europe is thriving, and creating jobs for hundreds in a free and flourishing market, rather than the sort of indescribable protectionist bunkum that goes on in the US and its resultant (feeble, it transpires) attempt at preserving the fur-lined conditions simply unable to be supported where businesses are profit driven. Remember profit Flyrr100? What a distant and ethereal memory that ole thayng must seem to you. The company I fly for is raking in profit, and I as a captain took home €10700 last month, or US$12,877.45 based on this evening's telegraphic transfer rate. Do you know any of your furloughed colleagues happy to fly a brand new, well maintained Boeing with stable roster and your own bed every night? I certainly do.

To those of us enjoying the European way, consider this. CFO's the world over were clutching their pearls when oil was above 50 bucks a barrel. They are apoplectic, I can assure you, with it above 60, and likely to remain there for a while. If the good people at Goldman Sacks are right, and oil does peak at US$126 a barrel before it stabilizes God knows where, what effect do you think that will have on us? One thing is sure above all else, unions are not the answer. Lets all leave the angels of airline death well alone, shall we. They've done more than enough damage already.

[the grim repa]

thats and maybe 10,700 euros before tax e.t.c or do contractors pay tax.
10,700 minus health insurance,loss of licence cover,pay for your own uniform,pay for your medical,do medical on your day off,pay for your licence renewal,pay for all your meals,pay for your water,pay for your drinks,pay for your accomodation at all times pay for your transport,pay for your simulator sessions,pay to apply,pay to do interview/sim. assessment for selection.pay for your flights to and fro the states,pay homage to the crew controllers and management.pay for overnight expenses and claim back in three months,don't get paid for working into day off,get no day off in lieu for working into day off,be promised 5 on 5 off and then be put on 5 on 3 off,be forced to become a ferry pilot,be forced to become a line trainer,pay for telephone calls to ops if you have any problems.
all that for the priviledge of becoming a scab!not a bad deal really,i suppose leo.
if i have forgotten anything please forgive me.the list goes on and on!

[JJflyer]

Sir

That was about the best post I have seen on this forum for a very very long time.

JJ

[Flyrr100]

Leo Hairy-Camel
I didn't say we have the best system in the world. I've always known that the British system is, and always will be the best. Just check your attitude to see that!
Just the thought of having undertrained, rash, blunt, idiot American pilots flying in your god blessed airspace must be the comming of the end!

The US system uses seniority. It's not perfect. Because of this we have many checks along the way. My airline has been operating for over thirty years without an incident or an accident. We're also making money. I guess we must be doing something right.

As for unions? I hate them. But we are better off with them. Our management constantly tries to find loopholes and ways around the contract. But I get 18 days off a month and get paid a good wage because of it.

You fly in your system and I'll trudge along in mine. I think I can agree we disagree. Can you?
:8

[vfenext]

Gentlemen gentlemen, take it easy on Leo Hairy Nuts. He is a well known pro FR man and will defend anything they do just because they do it. Pay no attention to him and he will just go away and play at being a pilot. Just don't fly with FR cause he is the kind of accident they have waiting to happen.

[jester42]

vfe, the guy has a view point which has some value in my opinion, although I don't agree with all he says.
Your last comment in your post doesn't sit right and does you no credit. Safe flying to everyone.

[cargo boy]

LHC, you conveniently forgot to mention that the most profitable airline in the USA actually happens to be very well unionised. In fact, your leader loves to compare Ryanair with Southwest. In fact he claims to have modelled it on them. I think that blows your theory that the reason all the other majors are in trouble right out of the water. Must be something other than unions. Couldn't possibly be due to bad management now, could it?

A happy workforce equals a productive one. :ooh:

[Flyrr100]

Gentlemen gentlemen, take it easy on Leo Hairy Nuts. He is a well known pro FR man and will defend anything they do just because they do it. Pay no attention to him and he will just go away and play at being a pilot. Just don't fly with FR cause he is the kind of accident they have waiting to happen.

We have a few guys like that. Not because of their flying skills, but their attitudes.
Be safe guys.
http://www.fanderson.org.uk/images/tbep13a.jpeg

[Ignition Override]

Yep: Southwest, the darling of the industry, has been heavily unionized for many years, and has the best-paid B-737 pilots in the nation, if not the world. Southwest's leadership was not in the business for a quick kill on stock prices.

Unions have not prevented Southwest from becoming very successful. This is no coincidence. Their history speaks volumes.

But Southwest has First Class Management, which seems to treat its staff (employees) as a bit more than liabilities on a financial sheet, in stark contrast to how most US airlines have historically operated. And they developed a route network which does not require passengers and crew to constantly shuffle through a terminal on every other leg.
Unions never created our wonderful hub-and-spoke networks.

The so-called "airline builder" in the 80s abused the very concept of Chapter 11 (bankruptcy) to void union contracts, even though Continental's unions were negotiating paycuts. After Lorenzo and his Superscabs were in place, Frank then bought other airlines. The skies looked golden: unions were gone. Continentals labor "force"consisted of Superscabs, union "crawl-backs" and desperate new-hires, plus those from Peoples' Express, New York Air who were stapled to the bottom of the seniority lists etc. The merger between Continental and Trans Texas before Lorenzo came onboard, and the greed which turned one pilot group against the other, made it much easier for Lorenzo. Nobody remembers (or knew about) the lessons from how Caesar gradually conquered Gaul (Aedui tribe already against Allobroges or Remi etc...'help us'...).

Therefore, why did this annointed-by-Wall Street non-union "Airline Builder" NOT build a successful airline? For any dufus := out there who still admires Lorenzo, well, he never planned to create a long-term airline success! He wanted to smash companies together so that he could create a big enough cash cow, milking their cash up into his holding company, Texas Air Corporation. Unions never hindered anything Lorenzo wanted to do with Continental-they were gone for many years. Therefore, where is the problem? I detect a lingering silence about this question. A few Department of Transportation Admin. judges under Reagan/Gerge Bush Sr. ruled in Lorenzo's favor immediately before they left to go work for his Texas Air Corp. Even this was in "Aviation Week & ST" and probably in the "Wall Street Journal". His actions even affected pension reform in the US Congress. Some people still admire the way he stomped on labor (they are not real people) and put seniority lists together with total disregard for experience. Read about how the FAA's Western Region was "allegedly" ordered by senior FAA bureaucrats to leave Continental and its flight operations and aircraft logbook "issues' alone. It would have embarassed the Reagan and Bush Sr. regimes. Who appoints the senior DOT and FAA bureaucrats?

Ignorance is no excuse for anyone who praises, even indirectly, such corporate cannibals as Lorenzo and Icahn. Now, let anyone who worships US airline managements explain how Southwest became so successful with the higher-paid 737 pilots in the US, maybe the world...with many long-term flight attendants whose personal stock is worth quite a large bundle...oh no, say a few geniuses on Pprune, that gleaming success is just a coincidence and anomaly....

Before the year 1999 or even 2000 (the watershed was 9/11), the most profitable US airlines were all heavily unionized. Two of the US major airlines with the more serious financial problems operate a higher percentage of regional jets than others :oh: ... are the (very high cost+ brand-new) regional jets not the 'golden calf' to worship? This has been the tranquilizing mantra chanted for years by many annointed airline mgmts! Who is still ignorant of the fact that one or two high-lea$e cost CRJs presumes to replace an older 737 or DC-9 which was paid for many years ago? How much more is the operating cost of a 44-seat than the same CRJ with 50 seats, just so mgmt can get round a scope agreement? Six less seats equals quite a percentage less revenue for similar operating costs. How does physically reducing revenue that much, on markets that have growth potential, indicate good marketing?

[vfenext]

Your last comment in your post doesn't sit right and does you no credit. Safe flying to everyone.
jester42 I hang my head in shame, how could I upset you and Leo in such a careless and selfish manner. I know you FR guys are a customer conscious group who only want whats best for your passengers....... Now excuse me while I go away and have another great laugh at your expense. :p

[FRying]

Making money or not has nothing to do with unions.

Ryanair is probably the ONLY airline in Europe with no Unions (YET..)

But Ryanair is far from being the only airline making money in Europe.

The fact Ryanair's management is having such a great time at the moment with contracts is widely due to the fact this country has benefited from Europe's aids and largesse in order to prop up the economy : more liberal, receiving more aid from Europe than anybody else.

Another reason for Ryanair's success is...public subsidies. Which is very amazing when you consider Ryanair promotes a more liberal way to work. Which means MOL and his sad colleagues do not apply what they preach for. Public subsidies from French regions for instance. Ryanair receives millions from France. No wonder Ryanair can offer such low prices. THerefore, nothing to call home about...

Now things are about to change with a major questionning of the Irish specificity within Europe and of aids which are not justified anymore.

Unions do exist within Europe but they will in the end. That's about as certain as day light will come tomorrow. Nobody believed in the soviet system's breakdown 20 years ago. Well, it did happen.

[airfoil404]

Could someone shed some light on the below for me pls?

Elifant: 'Hi all

Well, about upgradings within RYR.... For all those who are promissed a quick caommand process within RYR so to say within six month etc. Do not beleve it it just will not happen and basicly is just a trick to get experianced F/O. I know just one case of about 40 guys where this promise was kept!!!!! '

How true is this?

and...

The grin repa: 'pay for your medical,do medical on your day off,pay for your licence renewal,pay for all your meals,pay for your water,pay for your drinks,pay for your accomodation at all times pay for your transport,pay for your simulator sessions'

How much do you pay for your medical, licence renewal, and simulator sessions?


Thanks :confused:

AF404

[ElNino]

A medical costs about €200, an ATPL renewal about €350 and the sim, I don't know how much for Ryanair but Aer Lingus used to rent out their 737-200 sim for €300 per hour, so figure on substantially more than that for an NG sim (+ ryanairs cut), multiply by 8 for one 2 day session then by 2 for the cost per year. Then add the hotac, sustenance and flight costs.... So a substantial amount I would guess.

[ironbutt57]

Well....glad you guys finally got your very own "Franky baby" and any of you blokes who want to carp about Brits, Euro's, and the like not being able to fly in the USA...well.....you haven't been there...because I have, and thankfully there are many of them....maybe not as high profile, or sponsored in great numbers....but the opportunity exists...as it should...they are here.(USA).....is the Ryan Air agency thing a good deal.....not for you "locals" just like the AACS (scab) deal was for the Atlas pilots...and life goes on....dont whine about it...deal with it.:ok: as always, excellent post IG ovveride...(You flew metro's?) but lets not leave out the part where ALPO (dog food) "forgave" the superscabs that "Franky baby" created...now they're not scabs...just members in good standing with...get this..."unfortunates of hire" we're all doomed.....:{

[Ignition Override]

True Ironbutt: ALPA is far from perfect, whether as ALPA or ALPO. But when Valuejet was begun, their Captain (many had been Eastern Scabs) pay, with no benefits, was less than that of many delivery truck drivers-maybe less than that of some gravel dump truck/lorry drivers. I suspect that ALPA needs so much money in order to contribute to the Congressional PAC funds (just guessing here) in order to reduce airline obligations to pension funding and other very serious matters, that they would rather have dues money from any pilot-'former' (always) scabs or not. Most of my clarifications/responses on Pprune always take up too much space. I wish that they had not allowed Continental into the flock (that decision was probably a 'flock'-up), unless scabs were somehow excluded. Flew a short while in C-130, Bandits, Shorts and (still) years in larger tubofans with P&Ws :suspect: .

Thanks for the compliment [whether in agreement or not, my comments are always sincere about our industry and our profession, both of which are suffering from the most serious attacks imaginable, partly OPEC..I guess that to offer to give the Israeli Air Force 50 free F-22s might not help :suspect: ]. When an airline charges $200 US for a ticket and a FOURTH of this ticket price goes to taxes and govt/user fees, I wonder why OUR own US government is trying so hard to cripple its own airlines and staff/employees. No, our industry is not alone, but our representatives are aware of the exorbitant price of fuel and many might be aware of the taxes/fees.:mad: :yuk: .

[411A]

A generally well written post, Ignition Override, however you left out a few rather important details about Continental/Lorenzo.

Continental, at the time of the untimely death of Robert Six, was absolutely the weakest of the US trunk carriers.
UAL was just waiting for a chance to clean their clock on routes to DEN and ORD...and they eventually did.
No Lorenzo, no Continental today...his deceptive practices or not.
They quite simply would have disappeared otherwise.

Now, the tables have turned, UAL struggles bravely on, while Continental has recalled all their guys...and is actually hiring a few more.

The last twenty years in the US airline industry has seen several other situations where companies have come...and gone, but Continental continues from strength to strength.
Oddly enough, as good 'ole Ironbutt57 has pointed out, all while ALPO invited the 'outs' back in, at Continental.

IMO, Lorenzo kept Continental alive for the short term, otherwise it would be dead as a doornail today.

Now, considering the FR issue, it is quite clear that MOL has yet to discover that you can attract more flies with honey, than you can with vinegar.
Will he ever learn?

Most likely not.:}

[Baron rouge]

The problem is, and always has been, within Europe, that to work in the UK, and aviation in general, you need English
For a Brit to work elsewhere, he/she needs the local language.
So.....................
Non-brit european needs to learn one language he/she was not taught from birth.
Brit.....................learn 24 more..

Arkroyal... Were those beers right ?

From your assessment of the situation, I would say:

Brits need to learn F*** all as they allready know English
Europeans, need to learn at least one foreign language: English.

Maybe you Brits need also to learn Maths:ok:

[ironbutt57]

but i think MOL has discovered that if there is a tin of honey adjacent to a tin of sh#&t, which one has the most flies:{

[SIDSTAR]

If MOL thinks he can ride roughshod over the immigration/work permot rules of France, Belgium Germany Italy and Spain he's got another think coming.

Using the spineless Irish Labout Ministry to get WPs wont work this time.

This is just the opportunity that all European unions have been waiting for. Right guys your serve!!

[skibeagle]

Sidstar, he'll get Irish work permits and have everyone nominally based in Dublin - but really based outside. Don't think he hasn't thought about this.

[essexboy]

If the sceptic tanks have to sit 14 jaa exams then we may see one or two in the crew room but I wouldn't expect a rush. i've seen deliverance :D

[dicksynormous]

Essex boy,

I object to calling the ham shanks sceptic tanks. You are a redneckophobic and should be exposed as such.

They will have no problem with the jar exams if we give them the answers.:}. To deny them the same conditions as the US would infringe their human rights.

[AA717driver]

Yes, I'll admit we "ham shanks" are too stupid to pass the JAR exams.

I know I've been unable to come to grips with the section on "icing on wooden props" and I still cannot reassemble a carburetor blindfolded...:rolleyes:

I appologize in advance for my buffoonery while flying in EU airspace.TC

[DownIn3Green]

I havent read this whole thread, nor am I interested in getting involved in the politics of this arrangement being discussed...however, one post at the beginning of this thread indicated that Brookfield didnt pay their pilots anyway...I dont know about recently, but I have done 5 contracts for them from 1996-2002 and have always been paid on time in the currency of my choosing and to the bank I requested....

If I was seriously considering flying the 737 again (I am typed w/ -400 EFIS PIC experience) I personally wouldnt let the fact that Brookfield is brokering this deal turn me away...

[jimbaba]

I've been reading this thread about Ryanair hiring U.S. pilots through a group called Brookfield, but I searched the web and couldn't find an aviation-company called Brookfield. Do they have a website?

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Yes. (http://www.brookfieldav.com)

[Aloue]

Hey there Leo ..... how helpful ...... can you just confirm again that you claim to be "just a line captain" with Ryanair?

This is the first sign we have seen from you of anything other than appeals to entirely selfish behaviour. So all one can say is "well done Leo". (I supose it would be uncharitable to wonder if you are on some kind of a commission?).

jimbaba be sure and do a search on this site for the many threads about Ryanair. Reading them carefully before heading over to MIA from SFO might save you a lot of time and money.

[One Step Beyond]

And while you're answering questions Leo, why don't you explain to us less clever beings than yourself how it is that the most successful airline in the USA managed that success while also being the most heavily unionsed airline in the USA?

[flat-tire]

Question: Why would someone with a US passport and FAA rated command time on a 737 wish to work for Ryanair?

Last time I checked Southwest, Continental, AirTran, FedEx, DHL, JAL (HAWAII AVIATION CONTRACT SERVICES) and UPS are all hiring. Plus I am pretty sure you don’t have to pay for your rating or sit through 14 grueling exams to gain employment.

What do I know? I’m just a pilot.
:ugh:

[eiriktheviking]

I have not seen any one say a word why they are recruiting for experienced Captains from the USA.
With aviation in EU being rather small versus the US, would it not be kind of hard finding guys that have got the experience to take the left seat right away. Have Ryan maybe had a hard time up-grading from within, with their high time FO's.
How many hours do you guys over in EU have before you upgrade. I believe it comes your way quicker than it does for the guys here in the US.
While United was still hiring I believe the hours for a White male to get on was just over 11000 total time, 5600 hours PIC on Part 121(B737, B727 DC9 or larger Jet) and 3 type ratings. Then after you get in you look at any where from 6 to 15 years before you upgrade. But, that is all about timing.
I have worked for a few US airlines and there have always been quite a few fellow Europeans at each place.
As the industry goes up and down, I have had to move around a little to put food on the table and provide for my family. I have done stints in Asia, Middle East and in Canada all with my "Worthless USA FAA Ticket". I believe in going where the job is to make a living, I will not pay for a type rating, or training, I never have and never will. So you guys that don’t like US FAA guys don't have to worry about me coming home to EU and corrupt your system with my experience.

Cheers

[skibeagle]

Erik, Ryan Air would rather bring in pilots with experience than promote their own FO's - it keeps the pool of available pilots bigger.

You are fortunate that you have been able to provide "food on the table for your family" without having to pay for a type rating. I'll bet they were thrilled to bits at the prospect of those major moves around the world while you decided to ditch family stability to pursue your selfless career goals.

You had an easy ride into the airline industry with your US right of abode (gained either through marriage or the Green Card lottery no doubt), and didn't "have" to return to Europe and the overkill of JAA licencing. Do not mistake your good fortune as some sort of superiority. Had you been dumped back into Scandinavia (with your worthless FAA ticket) in the early 1990's you too would have done anything to kick start your career. This is a statement of fact, not conjecture - am I wrong ? I don't think so. Your FAA licence would have been worthless in Sweden back then btw.

Be careful the stones you cast - fortune can be fickle.

[Arkroyal]

Red Baron,

Your maths are correct if the brit only wants to work in UK.

If he fancies a job elsewhere in Europe's free employment zone, mine are.

[essexboy]

Don't get me wrong, in spite of my banter, I welcome you guys from the us. God knows we need some pilots. That said we are failing scores of FOs on the command course and then we take direct entry captains that are not even familier with jaa ops let alone Ryanair SOPs. I flew with an FO recently that said he was coming up for command assesment. He said and I quote " I will do the course but I'm not expecting to pass. Nobody does do they". The problem is the command course is a test. its not training. Sort this out and the company can concentrate on taking on FOs that can expect a career rather than a short cut to building hour then moving on. Then perhaps we would have enough captains

[eiriktheviking]

LUCK I Would not know what that was, I did get married and 15 years later I still am to the same woman. Luck, DUDE that is rather funny. I have been at 3 Airlines that have gone Chapt 11/ Out of Business. Luck, Dear Skibeagle I have just been willing/stupid enough to keep at it. My family has been living at the same house and little town the whole time. I have missed out on time with my kids, but I have been making sure that they have what they need, food, house, private school. This has not been a career, just a bad habit.
Do not misunderstand me I love what I am doing; it is just that this business has got the biggest scumbag business men that the world has seen in it. They could make the boys at WorldCom and Enron look like Sunday school kids.

July 2001 AMR the AA, AE and Saber group parent company said they had about 17 Billion$ in cash. 6 months later 3 months after 9-11 they said they might have to file for Chapter 11 because they only had about 3 Billion $ left. To make 14 Billion $ disappear you have got to be pretty creative. Delta went out and bought Comair/ASA outright then turned around to the pilots and told them we are broke you need to take a pay cut. Well, they just blew all the cash reserve they had. We could go on, the fact is that last year and the year before there was record number of passenger traveling in the USA. Is it not strange that these Airlines are not making money? It is impossible to NonRev anymore because every flight is full.
Be glad that you guys are in EU, where there is stil some government control, where there is no free for all, for Executives to give them self hundreds of million of dollar's in bonuses for running an Airline in to the ground.
Sorry, did I ramble on about this unfair world.

At the last Airline that I was at that went Chapt11, I lost over 12.000$, with the 2 others it have in all cost me over 30.000$ and that was just money I was owed for services renderd/hours flown. I guess I am just not able to see the "LUCKY" part in it.

At this point I am back on the B727, I wanted to be Captain on it before it get's parked for good. I am not doing a career thing at this point, just doing something fun. It is rather hard pursuing a career at this time as a Pilot in the US, there is over 10.000 pilots laid off from the Major Airlines. LUCKY,, DUDE I just don't see it.

I still belive in going out there and getting your hours and experience, if Ryan is not able to upgrade their guy's would it not be more likley that they have a standard they try to keep. I doubt there is a EVIL plot keeping the boys with 1000-2000 hours raising the gear from making Command. SAFETY, I know it is hard to think of it, for the 2000 hour wonder that can smell the Left seat and its prestige.
I belive you guys can learn some thing from the US Captains, and when you guys are riding the highest on your EU horse, in the most inefficient Airspace in the world. Remember that the little B737"NG" that you are sitting in and the Jeppesen Approach plates you are using was all made by the Americans.

Cheers

[The Sandman]

All I can say guys is that I'm a transplant that has successfully jumped thru all the JAR licensing hoops, and I would not in any way recommend that any of my fellow countrymen grace the doorstep of Ryanair with your presence as a contractor. To do so would be aiding and abetting the greatest aviation career destruction machine since the likes of Lorenzo etc... In fact lovable old Frankie would most certainly cast a very admiring and envious eye this way across the pond at his fellow traveler over here. If you want hours and command time, Asia is the way to go. FR MAY cosy up to you in their hour of need, but Gawd help you should YOUR needs ever require any sort of reciprocation. Talk to any of the contractors from the last couple of seasons. Not a nice outfit to work for. They tell you straight up in their intro sessions that to FR, pilots are a hated breed. Nice little coercive bunch to gain rewarding employ with. Rots a ruck!

[Baron rouge]

Your maths are correct if the brit only wants to work in UK.

If he fancies a job elsewhere in Europe's free employment zone, mine are.




Totally wrong my dear ARKROYAL, to work as a contractor anywhere in EU the only language required is English.

For example: Canadian and Australian working for TAT (France) back in 1990, myself working last year in Italy and not able to speak a single world of Italian, than offered a job in Portugal without speaking the language either, same with friends working for VBird, Macedonia, Wizzair, etc...

in all these cases we French had to learn English, a Brit would have had nothing to do.

Now if you are talking about joining one of the Flag carrier EU nationals or Brits are at the same point, they need to know the language of that state... end of story.

[Arkroyal]

Nice to see that the moderator's manners leave yours in the shade, baron.

I am not interested in 'contract' work, but a level playing field for proper employment.

[Baron rouge]

Nice to see that the moderator's manners leave yours in the shade, baron.

:sad: ???


I am not interested in 'contract' work, but a level playing field for proper employment.



Are you changing the rules as the game goes on ARKY ? You did not mention this point on your previous post, the thread is about Brookfield a well known agency, and believe me for those out of work...even a contract job is proper employment

But you probably never had to look elsewere for a Job.

But even for a proper job an EU national has to learn the foreign language +English as you have only to learn that foreign language, and when it is Ireland you don't even have to bother.

Understood this time ARKROYAL ?

[RobertFL]

Eric
Your post is another arrogant yankee attitude ,I know such types like you cause I live now among selfish and arrogant yanks. Hopefully pretty soon back in europe.
PS
By the way world will still be around and sun will still be shining if usa wouldnt be here anymore

[DownIn3Green]

RobertFL

Those type of comments around a security checkpoint these days could land you in a heap of trouble...if you don't like the USA, I'm sure you know where the door is...:( :(

[eiriktheviking]

Dear RobertFL, How many American spells his name Eirik. This is the way it was spelled originally about 1300 years ago where I come from. Smiling Blond, Blue eyed you know the people that put the white in the British Isles over about 600 years of trying to learn the language. The Vikings where not bad guys just misunderstood, there was a language barrier.

My comment was to the many EU boys that just love to bash the Americans at every chance.
A good friend of mine told me a story. He was sitting in a bar with a British crew, the captain could not stop talking **** about the US and Americans. They did not know how to operate properly, did not know proper radio procedures, there was just not a single thing they knew to do right. So my friend asked him, what do you fly. OH, the B757 the Captain said very proud. So how is the 757? Well, it is just the best Aircraft ever made, the British Captain carried on. My Swedish friend then asked him, Who Makes that Aircraft. For the first time that evening the British Captain was out of words. There was no more US Bashing from the Captain that night.

The Americans came up with CRM for us, it was started at United. The Approach plates and maps most of us use all over the world, that is constantly improved on is from the US. I believe it now says Jeppesen a Boeing company. Boeing makes some very good Aircraft to. I believe more than 60% of all commercial aviation in the world is in North America.
I believe there is a good chance that we might all be talking German today if it was not for the Americans. Let’s not forget who our Friends are out in the world. Friends can have different opinions; even do things that we don't like.
RobertFL are you here in the US right now, there is room for you to here, and there is room for all kinds here. You must know that it is never a popular thing to criticize a county at war, it tend to keep people together.
Look what the Argentineans did when they attacked the Falklands, Argentina was at the brink of civil war, civil unrest because of politics and deteriorating living conditions in the country. They attacked the British and it unified the people in the country. I really admire the British for sailing half way around the world just to kick their ass. The British did not get the help of the US or other "Allies" because they did not agree with what they did at the time. The British flag is again flying in the Falklands and the rest is history.
Read this thread from the start and you will see all the negative comments about USA FAA Captains that might be heading for Ryan.

The US FAA system is not perfect, but it certainly more user friendly as far as getting a pilot license than it is in EU. JAR is kind of a joke to me. I have friends that have gone to Sweden and got their JAR License, and then when they got a job in Norway they had to take all the tests again. I thought JAR was there to standardize all the country’s so you could use your license in any of the member states.
I have worked all over this little world Far East, Middle East, Central Asia, South America, Caribbean, USA, Canada and EU. It is always interesting working at a new Airline different Country learning the different rules. To experience the different social/cultural aspects and to see how they affect the way we operate the big Jets.

I find it amusing RobertFL that you did not detect that I am a European.

Cheers EiriktheViking

[corklad]

here here eirik!!! finally someone said it how it truely is. i too am european and get really ticked off by all the english posts that are anti american and anti faa. they talk such drival and probably have never done anything other than a ppl or "heard from a bloke who did such and such" in the usa. it comes down to anti americanism more than anti faa but thats typical of the english these days, full of bleeding hearts and politically correct nonsense, untill something awful happens on their own door step. of course im not suggesting all brits are like that (that would be rather stupid), lots of good lads over there and pilots too!!!
but enough of the america bashing its quite tiresome and just because we think our collective **** dont stink because we have 14 jar exams id remind you all that you never have to do an atp checkride in some of the busiest airspace in the world and an oral exam that can last for days on end to get you atp ticket. there is no way you can comapre oxford or bristol to daytona beach itnl or LAX. only people who have gone through BOTH systems should critise! oh and if you think its tough learning to fly in the uk or the usa...try nav in canada in the bush....then you learn how to fly a god damn plane! faa is more practical and step by step orientated to get hours and experiance, jaa is way over the top to get you in a cockpit with 250hrs. both have their good points and bad points but at the end of the day it comes down to the guy or girl flying the damn plane that makes the difference. perhaps in the future you should look at the PILOT and not the system.
you can complain about the us making it almost impossible to get work there to protect there own pilots but how come our licensing dept will swap any eastern european or non-english eurozone country over the counter but if we go there we are told sorry you need to speak fluent german for example. just try showing up at air france or luftansa for instance and see what reaction you get. jaa or no jaa license. food for thought!

[Ignition Override]

Calm down folks.

US aviation can be a bit provincial with atc radio communications very clipped and abrupt, and it often uses non-standard terminology, which leaves much to be desired. Traffic flow control and movement per hour is the "altar' at which the FAA "worships", but controllers, in my opinion, are amazing and must be very flexible. Flying here can be very demanding and requires some very solid cross-country experience to keep track of weather (= fuel problems...) situations which often change very fast.

We made it north to Chicago O'Hare and back south today with no problem-our wx radar finally worked during climbout. I expected holding in the air inbound, and to later wait a long time on the taxiways, but outbound we shutdown an engine to save fuel and waited near runway 22L for only about 30 minutes! ATC really "busted their butts" to get planes to 27L and 22L and send them on their way. Two days ago we had no more than about 15 minutes of holding fuel and after first advising atc, soon requested a divert from south of DTW to TOL (not a company station: after just briefly calling the Tower guy while FO flew holding pattern, to clarify weather and runway length at TOL), but suddenly Approach said that they could get us into 03R at DTW! Superb, very flexible service from the ladies and gentlemen up there!

Our aviation environment seems designed only for efficiency-not to follow exact textbook terminology nor theory. This might be why major airlines have almost never hired pilots with only a few hundred hours; on the contrary, for the most part with 3,000-8,000 hours, except to fill or avoid court-imposed minority quotas (years ago at United), or during rare growth in the mid-60s. We have many pilots from other countries, but it seems to be a very small fraction. I enjoy learning about their backgrounds. Flew a while back with two Swedes and a Hungarian (had been a Navigator with Malev, then flew EMB-120 Brasilias with COMAIR here).

Aircraft manufacturers actually borrow or steal ideas from each other, and probably have since the beginning. Most of our Airbus pilots seem to really enjoy their planes, and so do Boeing pilots. Compared to the SweatPigs which I fly, the other fleets are better to work in, with much cooler temps and roomier.

[Boy]

Did this discussion not start out as an examination of Ryanair hiring practices?

[trainer too 2]

Are these two linked?? As somebody who doesn't trust MOL I would assume that an immigration specialist can do more then immigration issues for PAX in the EU..... :suspect:

From the job section of FI.

737 Captains to fly in Europe
Miami Sim assessments/interviews


Quote: We already have a number of pilots booked into the simulator in Miami to be assessed and interviewed to join us to work in bases in Europe for Europe's largest and most succesfull low cost carrier.We still do however require a few more Captains current within the last 5 years on the 737 EFIS or N/G. Those Captains with experience only on the EFIS models of the 737 will benefit from moving on to the NG at no cost to themselves. Other very experienced Captains with time on other heavy jet aircraft will be offered the opportunity to take a self financed type rating courrse to fly the NG. All contracts offered are for a 5 year duration, and this opportunity offers the rare chance for Captains on this side of the Atlantic to fly and live in Europe. FAA licences are acceptable for initial validation and all pilots will need to work toward gaining their JAR licence which can be succesfully achieved within 6-9 months. Work permits can be granted and advise given on achieving this. We are looking for a large number of Captains at this stage - please note those who have already replied will be on the schedule and will be informed within the next 48 hours.

Immigration Manager – Stansted Based

Ryanair is Europe’s largest low fares airline with 229 low fare routes across 19 European countries. We have 13 European bases and with our fleet of over 100 new Boeing 737 aircraft we will carry 35 million passengers in the next 12 months.

We are looking for a highly motivated person who will assume responsibility for all passenger immigration requirements into each country that we operate.

You will need to be extremely organised, capable of working under pressure and to tight deadlines. Experience of a busy office environment would be helpful.

The ideal candidate will have to demonstrate:

* Knowledge of UK Immigration Regulations.
* Experience in dealing with Immigration Authorities
* Excellent Communication & Negotiation Skills
* Proven skills in staff training
* Proven Administrative & PC Skills
* Ability to work on own initiative
* Flexibility and ability to adapt to change quickly

Key functions of the job includes:

* Dissemination of information throughout our airport network for the purpose of avoiding carriage of incorrectly documented passengers
* Flight profiling for the prevention of carriage of incorrectly documented passengers.
* Management of Immigration Charge Data Base.
* Regular meetings with Immigration Authorities to resolve Immigration cases.

[jewitts]

Maybe to deal with people coming from Norway?
Or Illegal immegrants coming from within the EU but not Shengen.
Maybe they have a plan to go intercontinental?
Yeah right!

[Boy]

capable of working under pressure and to tight deadlines. Does that mean "being prepared to accept being regularly screwed around by senior management"?

[wingandprayer]

What actually happened were that contracts were handed out for people to look at.

At the moment the only pilots who have passed the sim assessment and offered positions actually offered positions are trainers or those with other qualifications.

There were never that many pilots. only 24c/22f/o

[Aloue]

When did the facts ever get in the way of a clever linguistic manipulation of by Ryanair? Every contract, every press release, every statement, etc. needs the closest of attention!!

[Saturn]

I keep reading how folks don't think it's a level playing field. WELL, IT ISN'T. In case you have been living under a rock since Sept 11th, the US airline biz is in the toilet, BIG TIME! I also keep reading about how much Ryanair is a shiite place to work so why would anyone care if us Yanks, Gringos, Round eyes, would go to work for them. We aern't getting hired at BA, AF,KLM etc... Man you guys complain alot on that side of the pond. Word of advice for you all-VAGISIL!!!:{

[T's&P's]

Dear Saturn

The US aviation may have been going down since Sep. the 11th but it has been in better shape before that. However in the last 35 years (my life) I cannot recall NON US citizens being offered a job in the Airline industry. I know of few European being offered a job if married to American and I also know of most of them being laid off once separation/divorce happened.

I would like also to make you aware that training cost on this side of the pond is often 4 times more expensive than in the US (a/c hire, landing fees, approaches fees, CAA taxes, …. Etc.), something you are not probably aware of or intentionally ignoring. You all American got your licence for a good deal and TR completely free of charge while WE in Europe have to get in debt for life just to get a Frozen ATPL then because company such as ELCHEAPO have to sell our houses to self sponsor a TR then you get here and also wants our jobs. All of these and more because they always have ways to bend the rules and none move a finger to stop them.

Considering that:

-European have never managed to get a job in the US airline industry for the last 50 yrs,
-EU licences are more expensive to obtain and maintain,
TR are usually to be self sponsored

I would personally forbid any NON EU citizen from obtaining any airline job in EU not just now but for at least the next 50 years to come.

The European aviation has been always in deep water not just since Sept the 11th sharing those few jobs with highly qualified pilots coming from air force etc.

[Icebreaker]

wallycycle,
please check your PM's

[v1r8]

"You really wanna come to the US???

I keep reading how folks don't think it's a level playing field. WELL, IT ISN'T. In case you have been living under a rock since Sept 11th, the US airline biz is in the toilet, BIG TIME! I also keep reading about how much Ryanair is a shiite place to work so why would anyone care if us Yanks, Gringos, Round eyes, would go to work for them. We aern't getting hired at BA, AF,KLM etc... Man you guys complain alot on that side of the pond. Word of advice for you all-VAGISIL!!!"
---------


Ehhh there are many Americans, Ausies, canadians working for KLM my friend..