request level change enroute?

[Gin Slinger]

Why is the phrase "request level change enroute" included in some departure clearances? Would have thought this comes under the category of stating the bleeding obvious.

Any suggestions from the floor?

[tori chelli]

Gin

it refers to a radio fail procedure in which a pilot's original clearance is lower than the flight-planned one. Under RLCE (as it's written), after a radio failure, the Pilot has to leave controlled airspace, climb clear of said controlled airspace to the flight planned level, and then re-enter. This is different to "Climb when instructed by Radar" in which the Pilot can climb to the flight-planned level while staying within controlled airspace.

There are other technicalities such as squawking and maintaining present flight-plan for a set period of time, which I won't bore you with.

It is an anacronism from the days when no-one flew above 20,000' which haunts us still...which brings me to my next point...I've often wondered what would happen if the flight-planned level was above F245 (which it usually is nowadays)? How do you follow RLCE procedures and climb to a flight-planned level in Class B airspace which requires a clearance?

Any Area men/ladies or Pilots want to have a go at that one?

:confused: :D
Tori

[055166k]

Cor mate, bleedin' obvious init! Radio Fail procedure.
Good Luck.

[Spitoon]

If I understand it all correctly, it used to be to do with radio failure procedures - and perhaps, from years gone by, the control method used.

The radio failure procedures useed to be different if the clearance included 'request level change en-route' as opposed to 'climb when instructed by radar' - which I guess is equally bleedin' obvious. I suspect that the request level change type clearance technically was a clearance issued in a procedural control environment whereas climb when instructed was for a radar control environment. In my experience many controllers either use the two types of clearance interchangeably of use one type simply in preference to the other. As you can tell, I certainly don't know the detailed differences between the two types of clearance.

The RT fail procedures were changed in 2002 and I think this distinction has now gone. The procedures now reflect what has actually happened for years (certainly in the UK) in that if an aircraft goes radio fail, ATC try and get everything out of its way and watch it closely in case it doesn't do what's expected!


[Edited to say that Tori can't half type fast!]

[5milesbaby]

tori chelli - those were the procedures but as we now have the revised RTF procedures Spitoon touches on, the one you mention is invalid.

Neither RLCE or Climb when instructed by radar need be passed as there is now only one RT Failure procedure for all types of departure to follow. References to both the old procedures/phrases have now been fully withdrawn from the AIP.

[tori chelli]

5milesbaby

You're quite right. Never having had to use either phrase in a clearance in 25 years, I was harking back to my college course. I knew about the 7min / 3 min rule, but didn't realise it had caused RLCE & CUR to disappear.

You can always learn something in PPRUNE !!

Tori

[tug3]

Still the norm in Oceanic Airspace, which incidentaly is Class A above F55, to indicate that a FL nearer to that originally requested may be available at a particular point along the cleared route, e.g RLCE 55N020W.

Doesn't come into RT fail procedures which, as for most things Oceanic, differ a fair bit from those of Radar environments and controlled vs uncontrolled airspace.

Rgds
T3

[normally right blank]

Radio failure.
The Captain or FO get out his cell phone (or a passengers) and call the appropriate authorithy? It works in many places.;)

[Carbide Finger]

There are some exceptions. SIREN Deps from EGDL for example. If radio fail occurs before the A/C is given climb by LACC, it is to go once round the hold, descend to FL60 then return to EGDL

Are there any more exceptions out there?

CF