Flying while waiting for Licence

[Paul D.]

Apologies if this has been asked before.

I am currently waiting for my JAR PPL Licence to arrive from the CAA after sending the paperwork away on 30th June (Hence I've now developed the habit of slowly pulling my hair out). They were kind enough to send me a receipt saying they'd received my cheque which has been duly cashed. However, going by the srg page on the CAA's website, I reckon it may be another week or two before the licence itself arrives.

I am a member of a syndicate that owns a 152 and one school of thought is that I am allowed to fly that aircraft on my own before my paper licence arrives (but not carrying passengers unless they are PPL holders). The other school of thought is that I am not allowed to fly full stop, until I get that bit of paper in my hand.

As I'm erring on the side of caution and not flying for the time being, I thought I'd still ask the question in the faint hope that I may get the answer I'm looking for (probably just wishfull thinking though).

Regards,

Paul.

[DB6]

You are effectively still a student pilot until you have your bit of paper, thus you can fly solo if authorised by an instructor, normally in a club aircraft. Don't think a syndicate aircraft will pass muster unless it's on a public transport C of A.

[Paul D.]

Thanks for the info DB6. The syndicate bought the aircraft from our FTO and it is currenly on a Public C of A. Where does that leave me :confused:

Regards,

Paul.

[-IBLB-]

If you have no licence you can not fly.
As said before, not even solo, unless you have an instructor saying that you can go alone, but i am guessing you don't have a medical to show either, since you probably sent that with the request for license issue.

I'd just wait till you have the paper, or just fly with an instructor. You probably need a checkout anyway.

-IBLB-

[Whopity]

Your licence, even if issued, is not valid until you have signed it. Therefore you can only fly as a student from a licensed aerodrome supervised by an instructor. Presumably your medical has been signed so that would still be valid.

[DB6]

As above, you can fly solo but it's all a bit hasslesome. I can understand your enthusiasm, especially if it's as nice there as it is here. However I would say that if you must fly then get hold of an instructor and revise some of the stuff that will stand you in good stead in the coming months e.g. short field & crosswind landings, flying beacon-beacon, using a GPS, or even (for fun) spinning. The pressure's off now and you can enjoy yourself, however you will now start to come across situations you haven't met before and there's no substitute for experience. Good luck and enjoy yourself.
P.S. If can recommend aerobatics although not much use if your aircraft isn't an aerobat.

[3 Point]

Don't forget that the requirements for a Public C of A and a licenced aerodrome apply to flying training for the issue or renewal of a licence or rating . As any flying you plan to do now would just be for fun these would not apply and you can fly any aeroplane, from anywhere provided you are solo (only a licenced pilot can carry passengers) and you do so under the supervision of an FI. I don't see why one of the FIs who did your training wouldn't send you off to fly your own group aeroplane; I would!

3 Point

[Paul D.]

Many thanks for all the feedback everyone. As we hangar the group plane at our FTO, I'm sure the FI's there would be happy to sign me out, although my CFI seemed to think I woulnd't be able to fly until I had the licence. I reckon that rather than appearing pushy and trying to argue the point, I'll just wait another week or so. It's not long in the scheme of things and I'll have plenty of opportunities to fly after that.

Although not following a commercial route, I'm still planning to do my night and IMC ratings once I've got some more hours and experience under my belt. I've experienced first hand how the weather can deteriorate en route and I'd much rather have more options open to me in that type of situation. I suppose I could always do my 172 conversion meantime to keep me in the air. I'm certainly going to take your advice DB6 in terms of what I keep practising i.e. cross wind landings, flapless & glide approaches, forced landings, stalls, use of nav aids etc. You never know when you might need them and I actually really enjoyed learning how to use the nav aids. I asked my FI to do more work on those than was needed for the course, e.g. intercepting radials inbound and outbound from beacons, using them as checks at halfway points and for tracking back to my home arifield etc. I think use of nav aids is a great thing for any student to be confident with, not only for position fixes, but also for tracking to and from places if the old GPS goes on the blink :O.

I didn't realise how impatient I was until now, so thanks for taking the time to give me your views.

Regards,

Paul.

[Whopity]

3Point

"and a licenced aerodrome apply to flying training for the issue or renewal of a licence"

Until you have you licence in your hands, you are still a "student pilot" and can only fly solo from a licensed aerodrome! You are correct about the aeroplane except of course Public and Private Cats ceased to exist last September!

[veetwo]

I passed my JAR-FCL PPL (A) skills test back at the end of June... I think the 27th to be exact. I went flying today for the first time since as PIC (no hassle at all.. an INS signed me out without even so much as looking over my flight log.. just told me to go have a good time)!

Going again tomorrow - good practice for when the license does arrive and I'm ready to take a pax!

V2

[kookabat]

You think that's bad... be thankful they're not doing security checks on you lot yet.

Passed my PPL flight test mid April. Received the licence (and a bit of paper saying I'm not a terrorist) three weeks ago.

Nine weeks it took. And I had to chase it up with them as well.
WE LOVE CASA!!! :mad:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just a suggestion...

- Don't worry for the moment, but get every bit of flying you can with the other syndicate members going about their normal flying. Obviously you'll need to chip some cash in and can't log it for the time being, but you'll learn a great deal as well as getting to know the other syndicate members.

G

[Paul D.]

Genghis,

Thanks for the tip. Some of the members joined the group to hour build towards their CPL's, so they are keen for some company. It's definitely something I plan to do. I'm not too fussed about whether or not I can log the time. At £45 per hour wet, flying the group aircraft is by far the cheapest way for me to gain experience and I think that's the most important thing for me at this stage.

veetoo,

Congrats on completing your training. I'm assuming you flew one of your FTO's aircraft as P1 on the instructor's licence. I suppose I could always do that meantime.

kookabat

One of the few down sides of living in Australia then. 9 weeks puts my moans and groans into context. Glad you finally got your licence anyway.

Regards,

Paul.

[PA28Viking]

Just to make you all envious:
In Denmark, the Examiner checks all papers on the spot after a successful skills test. Then he issues a temporary license, valid for two month. Within that period you will receive your actual license.
The same goes for radio license. Medicals are simply issued by the doc.

The Viking

[Paul D.]

Wish I'd emigrated :D

Paul.

[tunalic2]

Its the same in the states and for the life of me I don't understand why we don't change our system so temporary licences are issued on the spot (after careful scrutiny of ID , medical, training record, etc by the aforementioned examiner)
We do it with driving licences whats the difference?

It probably ought to be done on the grounds of safety i.e. you can practice all the stuff you've just learnt in your own time not 6 weeks later

[Paul D.]

I'd agree with that. My instructor asked me to bring that stuff in with me the following day i.e. colour scan of driving licence, original medical and log book, so I could just as easily have brought it with me for my skill test.

I would have thought that the CAA's Safely Regulation Group would be keen for temporary licences to be issued as in Denmark etc, as they would avoid any lengthy delays preventing newly qualified PPL's from flying (particularly at this time of year), which would surely be inherently safer.

I wonder if anyone has asked the question. I might send them a letter to keep me occupied meantime.

Regards,

Paul.

[veetwo]

FYI the CAA website was updated yesterday and it now says that the oldest Private Flight crew applications being processed were those received on the 27th June. (Mine got there on the 30th so I'm waiting this week with baited breath!)

[Paul D.]

veetwo, so, at least I'm not the only one checking the CAA website then. My application arrived a day later than yours, on the 1st July, so I shouldn't be far behind. I had next Tuesday in mind to allow for postage etc. Hopefully, I'll not be waiting too much longer (or camping outside waiting for the postie).

It's just like waiting for Christmas when I was a kid, although my wife would say I still am :D

Paul.

[3 Point]

whopity quoted me "and a licenced aerodrome apply to flying training for the issue or renewal of a licence"

and then said;

Until you have you licence in your hands, you are still a "student pilot" and can only fly solo from a licensed aerodrome! You are correct about the aeroplane except of course Public and Private Cats ceased to exist last September!

I'd say that, provided the student has achieved all the required hours for licence issue, then any solo flying he may undertake is not for the "issue or renewal" of a licence or rating; he already has the required hours! Any solo flight he makes from an unlicenced aerodrome may not be counted for the issue of a licence but I don't know of any regulation which says he can't do it. Of course any flight he makes must be under the supervision of an FI and the FI would have to be satisied as to his ability and the suitability of the aerodrome.

Of course I know that the new EASA certificates do not specify PT or Private category but there are still many aircraft (mine included) which have not yet renewed their certificates and therefore are still PT or Private category. As far as I am aware the requirement for PT aircraft still exists and we await guidance from the CAA on the new certificates and any specific requirements for aircraft used for training. Also, no need to be rude to me as PT C of As were mentioned previously in the thread!

3 Point

[Paul D.]

3 Point.

Many thanks for your contribution. This seems to be in line with the thinking that I could happily go to the licensed aerodrome where the group's aircraft (which is on a PT C of A) is kept and ask one of the FI's to sign me out on their licence.

As I have been trained by the FI's there, as the aircraft was bought from the FTO and as the FTO continues to carry out the aircraft's maintenance, I doubt there would be any difficulty.

Regards,

Paul.