Gibraltar ATC contract winner (Merged)

[RPMcMurphy]

Who got it then?

[neilmac]

Thought u were gonna give the answer!! See u escaped the GA , ATZ forum!! it was getting heavy and blinkered!!

[feinwerkbau]

take it no one knows then.....

[Gisajob]

MoD Contracts Branch in Glasgow have promised to award the contract this week !!

[LXGB]

I heard a rumour that NATS had dropped out of the bidding. 2 horse race now?

LXGB

[feinwerkbau]

From what I've heard it'll be announced tomorrow or Thursday...if it hasn't already :oh: :suspect: :confused:

[aluminium persuader]

Surely you mean "one horse, one donkey"...?

:)

[feinwerkbau]

Gisajob
Heard anything yet? Or has the MOD decided to keep it to themselves!!!!:suspect:

[niknak]

The word on the street is that Serco may have retained it, or if they haven't, they'll do exactly what they did at Wattisham and then return in a few weeks time...:cool:

[VP8]

What was that Niknak??

VEEPS

[Gisajob]

Niknak, you rumour monger, you are not being very positive !!

'Word on the street'

'may'

'or if they haven't'

Is that your best guess ?

Wattisham. Lets hear your version of events and then I might tell you what really happened.

[feinwerkbau]

RUMOUR has it the decision has been made by MoD but they just don't want to announce it yet! :suspect:

[aluminium persuader]

That would be interesting - to hear Gisajob's version of what really happened at Wattisham!

[niknak]

Gisajob is obviously very worried, judging by the abusive PM he sent me, I can't understand why.:rolleyes: :E

Perhaps he would like to tell all about Wattisham... unless he's nothing to tell, which I suspect is the case....:rolleyes:

[LXGB]

Hi niknak,
There was me thinking I was special for being singled out for getting a PM from SS House once :{ . My one wasn't abusive though, just friendly :O .

Cheers,
LXGB

[VP8]

Well who did get it!!!

VEEPS:E

[Jinkster]

dont know, but off to gib for holiday a week today :cool: if anyone fancies a beer.

pm me!

[niknak]

Gisajob PM'd me with an apology, my thanks to him for that.

He didn't say if he knew who'd won it though.

This is worse than the Eurovision song contest...:p

[feinwerkbau]

Niknak

No decision has been made public yet!

[LXGB]

Announcement due end of July (2005?) :) now.

[BARNWOOD]

Richard "Don't call me Dick" A.K.A 'Gisajob' seems to have gone strangely quiet. This is not like him.

Is this a sign of confidence or has the balloon been pricked? Did I say that right?

[Gisajob]

Hi Barnwood or could it be High Wycombe now ?? :p

Now you are really showing your age. The DCMD moniker died when Eastern moved to LATCC in .....:D :D :D

Sharpen Up :O

Gisajob - ROCKing and rolling!!!

[BARNWOOD]

Sharper than I thought Gisajob

[radarman]

SERCO expected the decision to be announced at the end of June. Apparently the delay has been caused by the MOD belatedly realising that there is a EU directive imposing a cooling off period between the decision being made and it being publicly announced. The directive is aimed at allowing NATS and DcmR/SS time to query the decision and be given information as to why their bid was not successful. Expect a formal announcement end of July. Or not - we've been down this road before!

[Gisajob]

Radarman, You are almost right.

The actual rule is that MoD Contracts Branch have to inform the winner and the losers at the same time and then wait 10 days to announce the result. This 10 days allows Serco or NATS (Sorry, falling in to your trap there:D ) to make comments or complain.

MoD Contracts Branch knew this rule in June so it does not explain why none of the three companies have been informed as yet as to who is the selected bidder.

So, speculate some more, but don’t expect an announcement from MoD until 8th of August (10 working days).

[Razors Edge]

well I'm known for my sharpness:ok: are you trying to tell us something gisajob, without actually telling us?This 10 days allows Serco or NATS (Sorry, falling in to your trap there ) to make comments or complain.

[man friday]

if this contract rebid is anything like the last one august the 8th will come and go and no one will be any the wiser!

we were told the end of june, then mid july, then the end of july, so i for one am not holding my breath for august the 8th!

promises of announcement dates seem to be like claims that the cheque is in the post or that promise to a lass of not doing that certain thing in her mouth, ultimately like that, all these assurances of an imminent announcement, leave a bad taste in the mouth!

[niknak]

A bloke I know who knows a bloke who knows someone else, tells me it's "a change of provider", whatever that means.
I assume it's not NATS or the Spanish CAA, so draw your own conclusions, I'm still none the wiser though.

[man friday]

as NATS have been awarded the contract( subject to appeal) for air traffic at gibraltar, i was wondering if theres anyone out there whos recently been employed by them in a TUPE transfer.

my main concern is the pension, is NATS final salary scheme open to the likes of us, the existing staff at gib, or can i look forward to spending my twilight years stacking the shelves in safeways or asking if you'd like to supersize your meal !

any info would be greatley appreciated by us mushrooms

[aluminium persuader]

Blimey! Didn't expect that one. Watch out for the Serco crumbling Empire thread zooming to the top of a forum near you!
;)

[2 sheds]

...not to mention the nauseating "best in the world.." bullsh!t from NATS!

[AyrTC]

Good show!!!
If NATS have won the GIB contract it will make up for their plans to give Shannon three Scottish ( High Revenue) sectors in 2008/9!!!!!!!! :mad:

sorry for thread creep


AyrTC:eek:

[CAP670]

man friday - I'll try to give you a serious answer to what is clearly a serious question.

There are a few TUPE controllers at Luton who (much to the amazement of NATS) preferred to remain on their former contracts of employment. This was partly because their salaries were higher with Luton, partly because they didn't wish to take a 'mobile contract' and in one case because at the time, someone wanted to work to age 65 rather than NATS' normal retirement age of 60 (this is of course, now subject to change because of the European Directive on Age Discrimination which comes into force in 2006 - an employer would have to have an objective reason for not permitting employment to age 65; ATCO competence and medical fitness would no doubt be acceptable reasons for refusing).

The NATS pension is actually still the CAA Pension Scheme and as a 'final salary' scheme it's currently open to all who join NATS. However, the writing is on the wall for new entrants maybe in about two to three years time because the Government (which still owns 49% of NATS) has indicated that it's unwilling to underwrite this index-linked final-salary pension scheme indefinitely. Presumably after then, for new entrants it would be a 'cash-purchase' scheme.

If Gibraltar has been won by NATS then it'll probably be graded as a Band 1 unit and the ATCOs as ATCO 3 (but don't quote me because as the first overseas ATC unit that will have been run by NATS since it was the Ministry of Civil Aviation and [I believe] operated Bahrein, the whole thing could be treated as a special case in terms of the salary package).

As far as the pension is concerned, you'd have to have a very good reason for not joining it (and transferring-in your existing pension rights) or have spent too much time being exposed to the LXGB sun...

:hmm:

[Jerricho]

not to mention the nauseating "best in the world.." bullsh!t from NATS!

2 sheds - EVERY ATS I have workd for uses these very words ;)

[VP8]

Latest from Safeskys website.....

RAF Gibraltar / Gibraltar International Airport

We have been informed by Contracts Branch about the decision which will be made public on the 8th Aug.


VEEPS

[LXGB]

Same topic, different thread here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=184105

Can the mods merge these two threads?

LXGB

[Minesapint]

Well done NATS. I have worked for them for 21 years and am more than happy with job/pay/leave (well, the pay could always be better :O ) . It only seems to be the odd SERCO hard liner that has a problem and SERCO won't be around for much longer by the looks of things! Their IT support is crap too!

The FAB with Ireland is for revenue sharing. I suppose that means that the IAA provide the staff for the new sectors and we get half the money? Makes business sense if nothing else. :cool:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<...not to mention the nauseating "best in the world.." bullsh!t from NATS!>>

And if NATS is not the best in the world, just who's fault is that? The people who work for them of course!

I trained many ATCOs in my time and every one I told to remember that if they validated they would be among the best controllers in the world... I was proud to work for NATS...

[Dave Gittins]

HD ..,. I think the comment was about the Organisation not the ATCOs. I would certainly rate the ATCOs .. not necessarily the outfit.

DGG

[Evil J]

Couldnt agree more with that

[Minesapint]

I hate to say so but I am even starting to 'rate' the new senior managers. A large degree of common sense in entering NATS strategic and business areas. More to come I hope. I think the effect of this will take longer to reach frontline ATCO's though. For some of the old school NATS managers retirement beckons!

[Cuddles]

Minesapint

I'll agree with you, it's nice to see it being run as a business. Quite refreshing.

[Seaton Approach]

Leek-man friday

Plenty on offer out here in the Sandpit mate!

Get yer northern butt out here for a long weekend and we'll show you what you're missing out on.... :}

[niknak]

NATS run "as a business" - blimey, I can barely contain myself:rolleyes:
As much as I admire the NATs way of running ATC units, they are not commercially vaible.
If NATS were an independant business answerable totally to city investors it would no longer exist.

[man friday]

CAP 670

cheers for the info, it makes us feel a little better about the future down here on fraggle rock !
just hope that in 21 years time that i too could be a happy NATS employee like Minesapint, just hope NATS will give me a tasteful faux leather diary each crimbo like Serco do.

[feinwerkbau]

NATS probably managed to undercut their rivals cos they won't be giving us a diary at christmas!

[man friday]

not only no diary, but the days of an all you can drink free bar at the christmas do will be long gone.

is the rumour that NATS have cancelled christmas true?

[LXGB]

They'll have you clocking in and out as well! :ooh:

LXGB

[Minesapint]

Clocking in and out, Xmas drinks, ye gods! Nah, no worries about that side of things. We have passes to get in and out but there is a union agreement covering management clock watching.

If you don't get a diary then PM me. I will send one myself ;)

[LXGB]

Unions? Never would have happened in my day! 50p a week and the SATCO would throttle us at Christmas happy hour.

But we were 'appy. ;)

LXGB

[Willie]

LXGB

Throttled you? Only sometimes, but not for joining the union. You didn't need it then. We might now ,though! We still should get get the Serco Xmas do and perhaps a New Year welcome one from NATS?????

[Minesapint]

So we will take a New Years break in Gib, not Xmas :ok: :E

[radarman]

Don't count on any goodies at New year from NATS. My bet is they will turn up in the next few weeks, see what a poisoned chalice they have bought, and run a mile from this Alice in Wonderland nut-house. Is this the only place where the runway grows by ten feet every time someone measures it?

[Willie]

Depends how long the surveyor has spent in Charlie's prior to measuring.

[LXGB]

Hiya Willie,
Only joking, should have been read in a Northern accent a-la Monty Python's "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch :O

If you fancy a glass of Chateau le Shlasseler over the weekend, I'll see you at Charlie's :ok:

Cheers,
LXGB

[radarman]

Has anybody wondered why there is nothing on the NATS website about their winning the Gib contract? Answer is that we're all barking up the wrong tree. The NATS concerned is actually a Spanish company - Navegacion Aerea de Transportes Suroeste. Ho ho ! That'll put the cat amongst the pigeons. Eat yer heart out Charlie! And senor Caruana!

[man friday]

if it is a spanish nats does that mean i can have a large brandy with my morning cofee and a 3 hour kip mid shift?

if so sod the pension, where do i sign up !

[radarman]

MF. Only a three hour kip? You already get four with SERCO.

[feinwerkbau]

It might only be a 3hr kip but there'll be at least 20 extra bank holidays a year!!!

[niknak]

It would appear that it's not a sewn up as NATS would like it to be......:E

[SoftTop]

OK, 8th has come and gone ... nothing anywhere.

Another technical hitch or peculiar contractual thing??

Maybe nobody's won. :confused:

[ebenezer]

NATS Wins Gibraltar Airport ATC Contract - 11th August 2005

The contract, when signed with the Ministry of Defence will be for the provision of air traffic control services for Royal Air Force Gibraltar and will be worth £3.5 million over 3 years.

It's NATS’ first international ATC contract and the latest competitively-won air traffic control contract in its portfolio.

The three-year agreement encompasses the approach radar and airfield air traffic control service and additional support functions such as bird scaring and medical assistance.

Existing air traffic controllers and support staff from Gibraltar Airport will be offered the opportunity to move across to the NATS Gibraltar operation when the contract starts in early 2006.

NATS = 1 SERCo = 0 Safeskies = -1

:ok: :E

[Roger That]

NATS reporting of the contract (http://www.nats.co.uk/news/releases/2005/2005_08_11.html)