Indian Boom!!!& Sahara/Jet (Merged).

[jumpdrive]

CAN SOME TELL ME WHATS GOING ON OVER THERE!!!
is it raining money ?
seems evryone is ordering planes like hot dogs or pizza's

Jetairways ordered 10 737 & 10 777 plus 10 A330
Kingfisher...5 A330 + 5 A350 + oh yes FIVE A380 wow!, and theire the same age as my son!
Airdeccan, even tough the put an order back in Jan for 60 birds (30 ATR's & 30 A320) not in this parisairshow, but it was on another airshow (AeroIndia)
Airsahara received new 737-800, they have 2, plus 5 737-700
not pleased, now theres INDIGO, who entered the scene, with an order of .......100......yes onehundred A320!!!.......THE LARGEST IN INDIAN HISTORY!!!!

seems that all the CEO's, president and/or heads of companies decided that this is the year to do it????
it looks from outside like a competition between them, like in the U.A.E., where Emirates orders a lot of metal and then Qatar comes along an orders even more, they took 80 in this parisairshow WOW

“The twenty-first century belongs to India . We feel privileged at the prospect of contributing to the growth of India 's aviation sector", from InterGlobe web page.

and each airline says that they would become (if their not by now) the BEST, or FASTEST GROWING, or YOUNGER airline by 2010, well kingfisher claims they would be proffitable in the very 1st year, thats good competition!!

one thing is for sure for someone like me (pilot) and all of us reading this post evry now and then, they would not have crews to fly them inside their boundaries!!!, c'mon! their short at the moment, imagine when all those airlines have by 2010 close to 300 planes combined

good for me, I love curry & rice!!! je je je

so far Pay is good

BooooooooM

:ok:

[Vimd23]

The indian aviation scene is really moving up.... but unfortunately , employment for foreigners is only if he/she was a PIC type rating on aircraft being operated in INDIA , that too is for a contract period of 1 yr , renewable. There are alot of indian pilots to fill the posts of F/O .... and more are getting their licenses current as we speak. Things are finally looking up.

cheers
vimd23

[jumpdrive]

In my opinion, most of the Indian F/O's will fill up those leftseat spots once their ready for it, It happens evrywhere, if you have the time and the skills, & the airline is in need, they will switch seats with you in the blink of an eye.
Im going as a Captain and im looking forward to it very very much!
& the experience its even more exciting with startup airlines, in wich your are part of the thing since the beggining, to this I can relate a lot.

good luck

see you in India

:ok:

[faheel]

Dunno about the phrase "getting their licences whilst we speak"

I just got back from India yesterday and there were a couple of articles in the local rag about the fact that there were no instructors to train students because of poaching by the airlines.

A flying school in Bombay has suspended ops because their cfi left.

Another story was that 10 pilots had left Air India? a couple of days ago for a new start up and a month or so ago the minister for aviation( or someone high up) had told the airlines to stop poaching each others pilots and had upped the retirement age to 61.

[Left Wing]

Ok so the aircrafts are comming, where are the pilots. Non of these airlines will make the effort to start a resposible cadet program. They are thinking short term; poach, hunt, buy the pilots for now and ask the fresh CPL to cough up close to 10000 US$ for type ratings, what a joke.

So the shiny new planes will be standing on the ground with no pilots to fly em, would an airline rather pay top dollar to an xpat pilot for 1 yr or have a great cadet program that makes every one happy. Look at USA no pilots jobs untill you have a Green Card.

India is still a poor country many students cant affort to pay US$20000++ for their flt training, what will they do; keep dreaming of becoming a pilot one day.

[jumpdrive]

does any1 knows if the 2 year restriction
could be changed?!?!?

by the way F1 sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::yuk: :mad: :yuk:

[jumpdrive]

forgot SpiceJet
sorry
another one
C ya

[Left Wing]

DGCA India just dropped the min 250hrs for CPL issue down to 200hrs so need for pilots is now an issue and the DGCA India will still sit with its Aircraft Act of India 1932 and bully newbies and start up airlines.:yuk: :mad:

Spice Jet ops dept is a good place run by former VP flt ops of Oman Air. Expect to fly a lot approx 80hrs a mth.

[Glorified Donkey]

Id like to be able to fly even 70 hours a month!

[rsoman]

From http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1148932,prtpage-1.cms

From the Times of India


'Hijacked' pilot leaves his passengers grounded

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, JUNE 21, 2005 11:52:29 PM ]

Surf 'N' Earn -Sign innow

MUMBAI: About a dozen Indian Airlines passengers have been stranded on Agatti island in Lakshadweep for since the pilot who operated the only flight to this archipelago suddenly vanished on Saturday.

He was apparently poached by a newly launched airline.

Call it the other face of the booming Indian aviation sector.

On Tuesday, that small group of IA passengers comprising scientists, advertising executives, tourists and professionals, waited expectantly on Agatti island for the second consecutive day, hoping that an IA Dornier would show up to fly them back to Cochin.

But there was no sign of the aircraft.

Said Nishtha Mehta Balivada, an advertising executive, "We don't know whether any flight will come at all."

Cut off from the outside world -- with no internet connection, no newspapers, and fitful telephone lines -- the stranded passengers have been left with little by way of help.

"From Wednesday, the five vegetarians in the group will have to survive on coconut water as the vegetarian food provisions on this small island have run out," she added.



For these passengers, the ordeal began on Saturday, the day they took the IA flight from Cochin to Agatti.

The flight landed on Agatti -- the only island in Laskhwadeep which has an airstrip -- at about 11.30 am and in 15 minutes, the group was to fly to its final destination, Kavaratti island, on a government helicopter.

"The helicopter did not turn up as it also does medical rounds," said Balivada. It didn't turn up on Sunday, Monday, then Tuesday.

"We were put up at the only beach resort on the island and on Monday all of us decided to fly back to Cochin," said Balivada.

That's when they learnt that the Indian Airlines flight which brought them to this island was playing truant. "The local IA officials told us that the pilot, one Capt Chowdhury, had gone missing," she said.

The stranded passengers were told that Capt Chowdhury had not reported at Indian Airlines' Cochin office as he had gone to Bangalore and joined another airline there.

Jagannath Reddy, a scientist from the Institute of Ocean Technology, who has been flying frequently with his colleagues to Agatti and Kavaratti to work on a desalination plant project, said, "In the last three months, we have been stranded thrice.

Earlier, it was for one day each, now I don't know for how long." He added angrily, "They should call it Chowdhury Airlines and not Indian Airlines."

The scientist alleged that the Cochin-Agatti IA flights had often been at this commander's mercy.

An IA spokesperson said that the flights could not be operated due to bad weather. "The pilot has not left Indian Airlines," he noted.



IA will try to operate a flight on June 25. But sources from Cochin confirmed that Capt Chowdhury had on Monday submitted his resignation to the IA office in Chennai.

"A month back, he wanted leave as a family member was ailing, but his request was refused," said the source. The pilot then put in his papers.

"The IA officials did not budge and told him that he would come back, like the many others who had left before him," said the source.

After a few days, IA officials got in touch with him and pleaded with him to return. "Capt Chowdhury simply loved that Dornier aircraft.

"He treated it like his child and was so happy to return," the source added.

But matters between him and IA officials soured again last week and on Monday, he put in his papers, leaving the passengers stranded.

************

[Left Wing]

"Capt Chowdhury simply loved that Dornier aircraft" HAHAHA and not the brand new A320 he got to fly when he joined the BLR based airline and the US$ 2000 pay hike.
What a joke !

[406pilot]

hi guys left wing in particular...

i have often asked myself this question over and over again, but may be someone could explain...

i am a nri as u guys would call it and fly the 737-200 in africa,would love to work in india..even heard on the news the other day abt india granting dual citizenship to nri's

kindly help,

no more 406pilot..

[Left Wing]

Honest advice ! First thing go to India and check with DGCA, what they say get it in writing ( a joke ) . Then talk to some imigration lawer in India.

[406pilot]

hmm too much trouble yaar rather wait till i make captain at the current outfit and then get a real airline job else where in a decent world..


thanks for the advice though...

no more 406pilot..

wouldnt make any difference if i were married to an indian citizen would it?

[jumpdrive]

Rush by Indian Airlines to buy aircraft is continuing with Air Sahara announcing that it intends to order 40 airplanes for delivery over the next five years to bring its fleet to 65. They likely will be 777s and 737s. Last week, Air Sahara announced plans to begin daily services between Delhi and London from September/October with two 777-200ERs leased from ILFC for five years.

&

Qatar Airways will add 11 weekly frequencies to India following the recent successful round of bilateral discussions between the countries. Qatar currently operates 19 scheduled flights a week between Doha and Cochin, Trivandrum, Hyderabad and Mumbai. From July 14 it will add New Delhi with seven services a week, flown initially with A320s in a 144-seat, two-class configuration and later with A330s offering three classes of service. From July 15, the Mumbai route will increase from six services a week to daily with the introduction of a new Friday night flight from Doha. Cochin, currently served thrice-weekly, will be boosted with two additional weekly departures beginning July 18. On July 21, a fourth weekly frequency will be added to the Hyderabad schedule.

+

Kingfisher Airlines signed a five-year contract with SITA INC for VHF AIRCOM data link services. According to the airline, SITA was selected because of its ability to provide nationwide VHF data communications coverage. SITA has four VHF ground stations operational at Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai and Calcutta with two more being installed at Port Blair and Trivandrum. SITA INC is now in the process of installing VHF stations at 17 new sites in India as well as upgrading existing sites.



by Geoffrey Thomas
www.atwonline.com

[jumpdrive]

another group of pilots left AD to join JA
as well as ground personnel
salaries the main reason
this will go on and on

[Left Wing]

The faster Decan shuts down the safer ! Its flt safety is waiting to crash....

Its sad that the Indian paying pax is still not aware of the details involved in running an airline, they feel if the food is good and the tiks are cheap, girls are sweet to them; its a great airline.
Whats worse, Deccan's boss thinks the same way as well !

Deccan will burst this bubble of LCCs in India and only then will DGCA wake up.:yuk: :{

[flufdriver]

I'm curious!

Do all the contract Pilots that are going to India make their arrangements through agency's such as Parc, Sigmar, Direct etc. or is there a way to deal directly with the carriers?

[rsoman]

Indian Airlines has come out with an even more liberalised "Easy Fares"scheme. Basically these are discounted fares based on a continuous monitoring of capacity, but with none of the restrictions of an APEX fare. This move is outright taking on of Deccan (as well as Spice Jet). No interlining in case of flight disruptions, but they do promise you a seat on their next available flight (considering that Deccan operates 2 flights on BOM-DEL while Indian Airlines operates 10, you can see the difference). The interesting thing is that when I tried for a last day fare, some of the Indian Airlines flights were just 50 Rs costlier than Deccan for BOM-DEL. And remember - this is a full service carrier. Looks like it is getting to be an American vs Peoples Express saga replayed here.

Some other facts.

Both Indian Airlines and Jet are agressively targetting Deccan, Spice et all. In many cases, last minute fares are almost as cheap as Deccan as I already explained - plus the food is good (and free as well). Indian Airlines uses SATS which has a tie up with Taj group, Jet uses among others LSG Sky Chef. And yes sir, I do like to get a free meal for a 2 hour sector, esp if if I am paying more or less the same amount as for the lo-co!

Both the majors are sprucing up on customer service as well. Jet has been always good on that and IC has been steadily improving. My early morning flight today for 6 AM on Indian Airlines was rescheduled sometime the previous evening to 8 AM. I was informed on the phone by Indian Airlines last night itself, and yes I did appreciate the fact that thanks to being informed well on time, I didnt have to get up at an unearthly hour and end up twiddling my thumbs watching the airport cleaners at work! Not suggesting that the loco airlines dont do this, but having travelled Indian Airlines for the last 12 odd years regularly, they seem to be getting only better and better.

Lowering fares even more sounds good - but then how can people like DN survive eventually? Foreign pilots are expensive, and with more and more trained guys leaving, your training costs go high as well. Fuel costs havent come down much, and there are not likely to be any Brussells South or Frankfurt Hahns anytime soon in India! 95 % load factor sounds good, Re 1 /Rs 500 fares for the common man sound even better, but in the end where is your money coming from with costs spiralling up and up?
No wonder Spice is not talking about the 99Rs fare nowadays. They wanted to make an impact, achieved the same , annouced the fares were sold out in no time and then went about their business with sensible fares.

Business traffic wont touch DN- and finally they seem to be realising that with talks of a shuttle between MAA-BLR- HYD. But then others wont sit quiet either, already Jet has 4 flights on MAA BLR route between 6 AM and 12 noon, and the Indian Airlines lady at the top has informed through the latest copy of the inflight magazine that in winter, they are also going to increase capacity in domestic routes (they already have in key routes like BOM DEL). That way KF and Spice seem to have a better plan - atleast they have twice daily flights at sensible times (and not 11 AM and 3 PM arrivals) on most of their routes. Speaking of routes as well, KF serves 2 with 2 planes and even Spice seems to be concentrating on the frequency aspect .

[BlueEagle]

You ask, "would an airline rather pay top dollar to an xpat pilot for 1 yr or have a great cadet program that makes every one happy".
Well, until they are big enough to be able to afford themselves the luxury of a cadet pilot programme most start-ups will go for the experienced pilot. No airline that I can think of has ever been grounded by a lack of cadet pilots whereas some have for a lack of experienced crew.

Cadet pilot programmes are long term ventures and airlines can only launch into them when they are fully up and running and stabilised.

[9Ws]

Blue Eagle, I agree with you completely. Just want to add one point here though...

With the number of aircraft "expected"* to be flying around the Indian domestic skies in the coming years, I forsee not just a requirement of expat TREs, TRIs and Line Captains... that requirement might just trickle down to a shortage of First Officers that will not be filled up by local Indians with basic CPLs.

Once that happens and such a situation is staring the airlines in the face, there will be no other option but to advertise for type-rated expat First Officers as well.

At the present rate, I expect this to happen fairly soon and last for at least 2-3 years... i.e. until all the young Indians who are leaving (as we speak) for flying training overseas have returned to India with their licences, all ready to be employed by the number of airlines that exist or could have mushroomed in India by then.

As of now India does not allow expat First Officers, but I expect this to change fairly soon... once a few airlines approach the Aviation Ministry and DGCA to change/bend this rule to accommodate the shortage.

Aviation is a strange place, but Indian aviation is... what do you say... "special"? ;)

Speaking of the expected "booming" Indian aviation scene, I also believe it just cannot happen given the current Indian Air Traffic Control setup, but that's yet another lengthy topic ;) that could be discussed in a separate post.... (one step forward, two steps back? :O ...hope not!)

And yes, I too feel it's time for a separate "Indian Aviation" Forum.

* = you can never tell with airlines in India. They always place big aircraft orders and hardly ever keep up to their promised induction for want of finance, poor planning, infrastructure... and perhaps (very soon) the lack of Indian pilots.

[rsoman]

Is there potential still for opersting in India after all these new wntrants have joined the fray?

I feel there is still a lot of potential in terms of unserved/underserved routes..

Eg : Yesterday I was due to fly in from Hyderabad to Trivandrum on Indian Airlines with a three hour connection at Chennai. 12 hours before my flight Indian Airlines calls me and says the flight from HYD is rescheduled and now departs two hours later, which made missing my connection a real possibly. So I started thinking o f alternates and found there was literally none.

Take this - TRV is served by just three Indian Ailines flights and one Jet Airwas flight. All these land between 11 AM and 2 PM . So if I suddenly have to rush to Trivandrum from anywhere in India and I get eh news at noon - I dont have a single choice - I have to cool my heels for 18 hours till the next day morning! And TRV is no hole in the wall airport - it is in the top 10 in terms of traffic (but mostly international). THere are any number of other cities in India similarly underserved.


However safety is a big issue. With the way things are going , you will have a lot of low hour pilots flying around. And while this means a quicker command, you will soon end up with lots of flights going out with inexperienced commanders and FOs in the same flight. That will not help and can be potentially hazardous - esp in a country in India with diverse challenges in terms of WX- monsoon flying as we all know is no joke! And reducing CPL hours to 200 is only going to worsen the situation.

ATC I know can be improved. But things have got a lot better. There is enroute Radar in almost all of the country. A large no of airports now have VOR/ILS and RVSM is already in place in many sectors in Indian airspace. Things can further be improved - but for that first the defence civilian airspace tussle have to be resolved.

My 1 Re worth !

[Left Wing]

BlueEagle,

I think & you will agree that Air India, AI express, Indian Airlines & Jet Airways do fit in this block of big and radiply growing airlines.
Look at China, they seem to doing just fine with cadet pilots yes their training stds do need to grow.

Even the govt owned airlines will not take up the matter and rather poach pilots from pvt airlines.
All the mighty DGCA can do is sit and look pretty and make even more hard for young sttudents to become pilots.:yuk: :mad:
I'm sure all the Indian pilots and students will agree to this.

[bluepacific]

All very nice and well but most only offering 2 weeks annual leave, :(
Overtime above 90 hours, you'd be 1 tired cookie at the month's end.
Great if you're short on hours though. :hmm:

[9Ws]

Overtime only above 90 hours?? ...who are you talking to... direct to the airline or thru an agency?

Overtime in India normally starts at 70-75 hours. Negotiate well, perhaps even directly with the airline if required.

You will end up flying 90+ but no one can expect you to do that straight up without a decent overtime package!

[Left Wing]

Capt. 9W
Why dont you put up the SWIP agreement, or PM it to guys who need the info.:ok: it will be great help !

[bluepacific]

Hear hear I agree with left wing, pm me with the info please. :O

[pyrofreak]

Got a quick question regarding Jetairways and their requirements.
I checked their website but its pretty vague.
Anyone know the hour requiremnts for an Indian citizen at jet airways?

Thanks

[9Ws]

Hour requirement? If you have a basic Indian CPL you qualify to apply to Jet for the post of a First Officer. They decide which fleet they put you on... B737 or ATR-72.

As for the SWIP agreement, I don't have it as I'm sure it runs into many pages... but what exactly do you want to know? Could find out and let you know... but expat terms are not covered in it. The management decides on that.

[pyrofreak]

Well, I have my FAA multi-commercial, and im currently working on my CFII initial in Florida.
I just graduated university, and was looking at my options. It seems jet is a good way too get started.
Would i need to convert my licenses before i even try applying or is an FAA ticket acceptable.
Any information on the application proccess and what theyre looking for would be extremely helpful.

Thanks.

[Left Wing]

pyrofreak,

if you have an Indian passport, DO IT NOW. you will need to convert your FAA to Indian CPL. Get ready to be shafted by the F*%$ DGCA .:mad: when go to convert.

Jet & Spice just took fresh CPLs without multi ratings they all need pilots ASAP.

http://dgca.nic.in/ (http://)

all the best !

BlueEagle !
PLS PLS AN AISAN / INDIAN FOURM PLS PLS A LOT OF GUYS NEED INFO AND IT WILL BE OF GREAT HELP

[9Ws]

Poor Blue Eagle... having to bear the brunt of our requests (demands?) ;)

But yes, an Indian Forum would certainly go a long way.


Pyrofreak, if you are an Indian citizen I suggest you stop any training you're getting into and try your luck with Jet Airways, Spice Jet, perhaps Kingfisher Airlines one day, or even a few of the others that will be around by the time you have your Indian CPL in hand.

Work on it fast as there's still room on the boat. Don't let it sail away without you.

And yes, the only hardship you'll face is the first one... getting past the DGCA with your exams and licence conversion. Your FAA licence would need to be converted first by doing a "Composite" written exam plus completing a few other formalities.

[speedtwoten]

:) TOMCAT21, you arrived in Mumbai yet:ok: please inform me or email me how is working condition, weather, schedule and the aircraft condition, place to stay in Mumbai;) thank's

[Vne98]

Anyone know what India's policy is for hiring pilots who were born in Iran, Pakistan or any other neighbouring countries?

I am assuming they would still treat them as Expats, but if I am wrong someone let me know!!

[Left Wing]

Honestly! If you have a Pakistani passport you will have problems to get a job. Same as if an Indian went to apply to PIA.

If you are of such an origin and hold a neutral passport eg UK, USA, EU, and have PIC on 320 or 737NG I see no problems.:ok:

[A330AV8R]

Hey guys anyone know what happened to that Cessna crash in bangalore in the Jakkur lake ?

info appreciated

Flex35 SRS RWY:ok:


PS : YES BLUEEAGLE an Indian FORUM would be nice !

Aviation booming here you see :E

[BlueEagle]

Sorry but the long term plan is for less forums, not more.

The Far East forum will have to do for now, maybe we can arrange a name change that will include India, I'll check that out with PPRuNe Admin.

[9Ws]

Good on ya BlueEagle :D ...you did it! That'll do, that'll do...

Now India isn't "homeless on Pprune" anymore, somewhere between the Middle East and the Far East :)

[Left Wing]

The Indian government plans to renegotiate an order worth about USD$2 billion from European plane maker Airbus for state-run domestic carrier Indian Airlines, the civil aviation minister said on Thursday.

Praful Patel said the government had set up a panel to "make one last attempt" to reduce the cost of the 43 Airbus aircraft, a proposed order that was approved last November by India's Public Investment Board but still needed final government approval.:mad::{

This deal has been going on for 5yrs, I pray for the Airbus sales team no wonder the VP Sales jumped to join Kingfisher.

While the pvt airlines are expanding at Mach speed, AI & IA will keep on the same old beaten track.

[jumpdrive]

does anyone knows if JetAir gettin EMB's ??
cya

[Hairy Chest]

Got a scoop from some of my LH friends that Jet Airways may open a flt training center in India with Lufthansa as a training partner.

[jumpdrive]

deccan received its 2 1st ATR72-500
one is parked in Chennai & the other in BLR
plus
in brazil paramount's 1st emb170 is almost ready for
the ferry flight
c ya

[tomcat21]

I am supposed to take an exam (I believe its just on Indian regulations) within 90 days of getting my temporary license so that will be in Oct. I took my oral two weeks after I got here with DGCA and it was very short like five minutes. So why are some of you saying that people with FAA licenses will get shafted by DGCA?

[jumpdrive]

kingfisher again!
they inked a deal for 20 ATR72-500
plus 15 options in the last 24 hours
Emirates, not Indian carrier ...but ......WOW....ordered a record
42 Boeing 777s today at the Dubai Air Show, 7 hours ago

[jumpdrive]

again!!!!!!!!
30 more Airbus for Kingfisher
jejejejeje
plus
Emirates will train Kingfisher pilots
United Arab Emirates: 4 hours, 49 minutes ago
Emirates-CAE Flight Training will train Indian-based Kingfisher Airlines' pilots for Airbus A320 aircraft, following an agreement announced at the Dubai air show. The programme includes both instruction and simulator time for novice and experienced pilots at the ECFT facility in Dubai.

[Darkjet]

Hi all !

Could someone please give me some information regarding a 737 NG difference course done in India . I receive an email from Jetairways saying that they would do the difference course on the NG and then I could start flying . I have a JAA licence and I fly the 737-3/400 . Would the NG course be aproved by the JAA ?
Or do I need to do a PC check on the NG in a JAA TRTO ?
I would appreciate any feed back from guys who went through this procedure or anybody who knows anything about this .

Thanks a lot,

DJ..

[Chimbu chuckles]

The airpsace over India is certainly getting busy...one only hopes it (ATC) can keep up and modernise in time.

What is really noticeable is the numbers of female pilots...there seem to be always one or two on frequency...very nice to see.

I was VERY impressed by the group of Kingfisher FAs walking around in uniform at the DXB Airshow...about the best pilot recruitment strategy I have seen in a very long time...stunningly beautiful ladies:ok:

We certainly live in interesting times...the next few years will be fun to watch.

[jumpdrive]

air sahara's Boeing 767-300 is sittinn in USA for its ferry flight
nice bird

[speedtwoten]

jumpdrive, sittin and sittin and sittin again well organise company this AiR Sahara, do think ???poor foreigner pilot's who's joint Air Sahara

[jumpdrive]

Air Deccan orders 30 A320s
Indian low cost airline Air Deccan has ordered 30 A320s in a deal worth $1.5 billion. Deliveries will begin in 2008. Earlier in 2005, Air Deccan had placed orders for 32 A 320s and 30 ATR 72-500s and this new order will take its total orders to 92 aircraft.


and now JAGSON..........all over the press
funny though, in the press pic theyre holding one A330
they say its with A320's .........tipical confusion
Jagson Airlines, India's first private carrier, is planning to change from a regional carrier into a low-cost.
The carrier, which operates short routes in Himachal Pradesh, Uttaranchal and Rajasthan, is planning to acquire 19 Airbus narrowbodies.
Jagson was the first private airline to get a license to operate in 1992.

[DCDriver]

I'm talking to an agency about a contract at Jet Airways on A330 / 340. having done a moderate amount of delving, JA appears to be better organised than some other operators.
Can anyone past / present give me an insight, and confirm what things are like?
(OK, I know its a fast-changing scene there!)

rgds, dcd

[jumpdrive]

No merger for Indian state airlines
Praful Paten, civil aviation minister for India, has publicly stated that there are no government plans to merge Air-India and Indian Airlines in the immediate future. The announcement silences rumours that the government was hoping to make significant cost savings as both airlines plan to issue initial public offerings of up to 20% of their equity in the first quarter of 2006.
The state run airlines are trying to compete with new start-up private carriers and the government has already approved Air-India's plans to buy up to 68 Boeing aircraft and the purchase of 43 Airbus aircraft for Indian Airlines.



Kingfisher Airlines has pulled out of the race to acquire Indian domestic carrier Air Sahara. Jet Airways is now the leading bidder. The stumbling block in the takeover was the valuation by consultant Ernst & Young, which valued Air Sahara at $750 million. Kingfisher had bid for $400 million, while Jet Airways had offered $550 million. Low-cost carrier SpiceJet has also ruled out interest in Air Sahara.

[jai6638]

No merger for Indian state airlines

Kingfisher Airlines has pulled out of the race to acquire Indian domestic carrier Air Sahara. Jet Airways is now the leading bidder. The stumbling block in the takeover was the valuation by consultant Ernst & Young, which valued Air Sahara at $750 million. Kingfisher had bid for $400 million, while Jet Airways had offered $550 million. Low-cost carrier SpiceJet has also ruled out interest in Air Sahara.

According to the news I read in the morning, Jet Airways bought Air Sahara..

[Left Wing]

Jet has now become the largest airline in India with a combined fleet of 70+ mix of 737, ATR, CRJ, 340 :ok:

[jumpdrive]

Jet Airways buys out Air Sahara: report

January 11, 2006 00:02 IST
Last Updated: January 11, 2006 02:46 IST

Jet Airways has bought Air Sahara for $560 million, television channel CNN-IBN reported late on Tuesday night, quoting sources.

The move comes close on the heels of liquor baron Vijay Mallya's announcement on Sunday that he is withdrawing from the race to buy out Air Sahara, given how well his Kingfisher Airlines was doing.

He had also added that he had market information that Jet was going to buy Air Sahara.

[rsoman]

From www.rediff.com


No deal with Jet Airways: Air Sahara

January 11, 2006 18:26 IST



No deal has been signed between Air Sahara and Jet Airways, but discussions are on for a strategic alliance between the two private carriers.

"No deal has been signed with Jet Airways," vice prersident of Air Sahara Alok Sharma told reporters in New Delhi.

Jet Airways executive director Saroj Datta also confirmed that no deal had been signed between the two carriers.

Aviation sources said that the issue of strategic alliance with Air Sahara will come up at the board meeting of Jet Airways, which is likely to be held at the end of this month.

[Gypsy]

Can anyone help with info about joining Jet Airways as a TRE on the 737 - can you go direct to them or is it only through an agency - if so which one?

Also any info on pay and conditions would be appreciated - is it an unaccompanied thing or can the wife and kids come as well - I heard that there are some very good Intl Schools in India.

[Timo Maas]

Can anyone help with info about joining Jet Airways as a TRE on the 737 - can you go direct to them or is it only through an agency - if so which one?
Also any info on pay and conditions would be appreciated - is it an unaccompanied thing or can the wife and kids come as well - I heard that there are some very good Intl Schools in India.

I'm currently speaking to Contractair. The package there offering is good, best to phone them

[Nevrekar]

Parc Aviation was also doing the 737NG contract for Jet. The pay was between $8500-9500 USD month depending on position(Line Capt/TRI/TRE).
Contract included hotel accomodation and they were not sure about going with family. It was a 6 month/renewable contract,

[PPRuNe Towers]

Anyone who spends any time around the sim centres such as those clustered around LGW will know that very significantly more that that is on offer. Don't undersell yourself, you will be working hard.

Rob

[wrightbrother]

It pays to talk to the people who actually work for the airline youre applying for. As far as jet airways is concerned ive been there and done that not too impressive.They discriminated between pilots, low pay and no appreciation for the 6days on every week.The locals get shafted while the contract foreginers end up with all the perks which rightly belong to everybody.Youll learn the hard way boys.Enjoy!

[DesiPilot]

Just heard the rumour that since Kingfisher was no longer interested in buying Air Sahara, it was recentely bought by Jet Airways?

How true is this rumour? It came from a friend of mine who works for Air Sahara. How is it going to effect growth in India??

[jumpdrive]

Boeing finalizes Air India order, to invest in Indian MRO, training
Thursday January 12, 2006

Boeing and Air India finally put pen to paper on the carrier's 68-aircraft order in Mumbai yesterday, bringing to a close more than eight months of bureaucratic wrangling and controversy and ending a sales campaign that dates back more than a decade.Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Alan Mulally and AI Chairman and MD V. Thulasidas formally confirmed the order for 23 777s--eight dash 200LRs and 15 dash 300ERs--27 787-8s and 18 737-800s to be operated by Air India Express. The order is worth more than $11 billion at list prices, but specific financial arrangements were not disclosed. Deliveries will begin in November.

As part of the agreement, Boeing said it will invest in regional MRO and pilot training facilities in India. The airframer said details will be finalized in the coming months, but media reports cited Mulally and Indian Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel as saying Boeing will put $100 million into an MRO base, likely in Nagpur in central India, and $75 million into the training facility. Patel said the company also will source $1.9 million worth of products and services from India, according to Reuters.

Thulasidas said AI's expansion will include "new, ultra-long-range nonstop routes" such as Delhi-New York and Mumbai-San Francisco and that it will "emerge as one of the leading global carriers."

The airline currently operates a fleet of 11 747-400s, two 747-400 Combis, two 747-200s, two 747-300 Combis, three 777-200ERs and 21 A310-300s. The new 777s will replace the 747-200s and the 787-8s will replace the A310s

[jumpdrive]

Indian Airlines reports record profits
Thursday January 12, 2006
Indian Airlines said it posted a record net profit of INR656.1 million ($14.8 million) in FY05, a 48.5% increase over the previous fiscal year's profit of INR441.7 million.The carrier reported that earnings were driven by an increase in traffic, which lifted total revenue to INR53.63 billion from INR47.26 billion in FY04. Indian said "strict cost control measures" adopted during the year saved it INR765.9 million.

[coco-nuts]

Well somebody handed me a photocopy of an airline magazine which had on it all the orders of aircraft that had actually been paid for by the many Indian airlines, and to say that it was mind boggling was the understatement of the year. I tell you that 3 to 4 thousand pilots is whats needed on the sub continent to crew the aircraft on order. There is nowhere near enough pilots for this expansion and worse the infrastructure is not even close to supporting it.
On the point of the possible Jet/Sahara merger/sale, i think both companies would be mad to not get into bed with each other if they are to stave off some serious competition from the newbies. It would probably ensure their survivabilty in the near future.

cheers
coco

[jumpdrive]

Boeing to invest $175 mn in India, gets firm order

MUMBAI, Jan 12: The US aviation giant, Boeing, will invest $185 million in facilities in India and source 85 billion rupees in products and services over a period of 10 years, India's civil aviation minister said on Wednesday.

The Chicago-based aerospace company will spend $100 million on a repair, maintenance and overhaul facility and $75 million on a pilot training facility, with a further $10 million on other facilities, Praful Patel told a news conference. State-run Air-India also on Wednesday finally placed a firm order with Boeing for 68 aircraft.

"The introduction of these aircraft will allow Air-India to expand and modernise its fleet, effect cost savings and add new long-range routes," Air-India Chairman V. Thulasidas said at the joint news conference.

The Indian cabinet in December approved Air-India's plans to buy up to 68 aircraft from Boeing, subject to final talks on price. The proposal was referred to a ministerial group to work out details, including a price reduction. The aircraft are valued at more than $11 billion in total at list price, according to a statement from Boeing. When Air-India's board approved the purchase of 50 aircraft last April, the deal was valued at $6.9 billion.


The final value of the deal was not disclosed on Wednesday, but Thulasidas said the $1.9 billion worth of goods and services that Boeing will buy represented about 30 percent of the value of the order. Experts put the plane order at about $6.3 billion. Boeing said it would also look at India's participation in design and manufacture of aircraft parts in the long term.

"We have done a deal with HCL Technologies for software for the 787, and we will be doing more such deals," Alan Mulally, chief executive, Boeing Commercial Airplanes, told the news conference. Boeing has an existing deal with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., a research deal with the Indian Institute of Science, and software services agreements with Tata Consultancy Services Ltd. and Wipro Ltd.

The Boeing order comprises 23 777s - including eight long-range and 15 extended range aircraft - and 27 of the widebody Dreamliner, due to enter service in 2008. Air-India Express, the budget airline, will receive 18 737-800s. Delivery of the aircraft will begin in November 2006.

Boeing, whose commercial plane orders more than tripled to a record 1,002 in 2005 on demand from Asia and the Middle East, has said it expects India to buy 490 aircraft over the next two decades as cheaper fares and growing traffic fuel demand.

India's domestic air travel market is forecast to grow more than 20 percent a year over the next five years as incomes rise in Asia's third-biggest economy and fares fall as new discount carriers launch in an increasingly crowded space. Airlines flew an estimated 19 million domestic passengers in India in the year to March 2005.

Air-India, which has not bought aircraft since 1996, has faced intense competition from domestic private carriers that can now fly overseas routes and from international airlines that have stepped up their services to and from India. Air-India and the domestic state carrier, Indian Airlines, are scheduled to make an initial public offering later this year.

[aviatn]

What are the current requirements for these companies.
The information about that region which is being published lately are certainly very encouraging.
Unfourtanetly I don't hold a type rating. I am sitting at around 3400TT, with about 1000 on the Cheyenne, and a canadian ATPL.
Which companies would accept my cv and seriously consider?
Your advise would be welcomed.

[Nevrekar]

To the best of my knowledge for almost all of the India jobs---they need Capts with time and a type in the A/C with atleast 500 hrs in type. Most F/O positions are filled by Indian nationals, and even if they needed F/O's I imagine that they will require time in type (737NG/Airbus/777 etc). If you can get on with someone whereby you can get the time in type, then it would be relatively easy to get a job there.

[picollo]

what are the captain upgrade requirements for local FOs at jet, deccan etc.

Are most local FOs happy?

[on_the_right]

approx 4000 / 4500 on type to join the upgrade pool !
cheers

[picollo]

Thanks,
does jet have a policy in place for atr capts. and fo's to upgrade on the 737?
what is the quality of life for locals? how many days off etc? what is the training like?
thanks in advance

[Hairy Chest]

Its finally done, 100% stake under Jets control

Air Sahara brand will be shut down all pilots, AME, cain crew, ops staff will be absorbed Sahara management will be shown the door.

S2's 767 will be used for BOM-SIN routes

[jumpdrive]

Kingfisher got another 12 or so AME's from Deccan
from all over the country.........
reason..........?
..............showwwwww me the moneeeyyyyyyyyyy
thats the reason............
jiji
c ya

[jumpdrive]

JA has acquired Sahara for $500 million.
The airline's board has approved the deal, subject to regulatory approvals.
Naresh Goyal, Jet's chairman, and Subrata Roy, chairman of Air Sahara, confirmed that the Sahara brand will be dropped once the takeover is complete and that there will be no immediate job loses.
Jet Airways, founded by former travel agent Goyal, flew 7.9 million passengers in 2005, making it the leading Indian airline with about 37% of the market. Air Sahara flew 3.5 million passengers in the same period for a 12% market share.

[coco-nuts]

There has been lots of things going on in the Academy. A lot of the senior guys look like being replaced. The place is full of activity with many worried about what will happen to their positions. Rumoured that senior management positions will be replaced with current Jet people.

cheers
coco

[VIMANMAN]

Hello
Ne 1 have any idea what jet plans to do with the CRJs from Sahara. I am a rj driver a couple of weeks from a contract with Air sahara to fly the little beasts. Ne info would be appreciated.
Vimanman:ok:

[jumpdrive]

i nkow the 6 month rule
but...............
1st..............does it apply to expats?
2nd..............do we need clearance from 1 carrier to join another?
some say that even if you get the clearance the Top's of each airline
with their (pampered) contacts in DGCA will make sure that you WONT get another one with your new employer
......is it?

ya know..........no one whants to be the 1st TEST rat on the LAB

any tip will work

thanks

[jumpdrive]

Jet Airways, fresh off its acquisition of Air Sahara, is considering ordering the A380 or 747-8, CEO Wolfgang Prock-Schauer told ATWOnline. He said delivery positions for either aircraft will not be available before the 2010-11 timeframe, "when we will need more capacity."

Between April 2007 and March 2008, Jet takes delivery of 10 777-300ERs and six A330s. "Including two ILFC-leased A330s and an additional four A330s, we will have 22 long-haul aircraft," Prock-Schauer said. He also told this website that discussions to possibly switch some of the 777-300ER orders for dash 200LRs have ended; "We realized it is better to have a bigger aircraft and plan one stop on very long routes. Because we have also a new first class onboard, we need more capacity."

The merger with Air Sahara is on track, with the latter expected to be integrated in a year. Jet wants to assume the international traffic rights from Air Sahara to Southeast Asia as well as to London.

Meanwhile, Jet will start a second daily Mumbai-London Heathrow service with the summer schedule, bringing its UK service to a total of three daily flights including one from New Delhi

[lowflare]

hI ALL,
Does anyone know the destiny of no expat f/o's rule in India. I am faa atpl with fresh B737 rating, but obviously not from India. Would love to go there...
Lowflare

[Nevrekar]

To the best of my knowledge there is no plan to change the rule regarding expat f/o's in India. Other countries in Asia adopt somewhat similar rules. In India atleast one cockpit crewmember must be Indian, so I've been told.

If you have the 737 type, try to get time in type (500 hrs min) as a PIC and then you will have no problems getting hired. Mostly they need 737NG time, not the classic.

[Left Wing]

DEAR XPAT PILOTS,

INDIA IS A NATION OF 1 BILLION THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF GOOD FOs. HENCE NO XPAT FOs EVER.

(Brits & Aussis) a billion Indians may not produce a good pace bowler but good FOs yes.:ok: :}

[jumpdrive]

February 20, 2006
Kingfisher Airlines on Sunday signed a deal with France-based planemaker ATR to buy 15 of their 72-500 planes, in a deal worth USD$270 million.

Officials from the two companies signed the deal in the presence of French President Jacques Chirac, who is on a visit to India.

ATR is a 50-50 joint venture between Airbus parent EADS and Italy's Finmeccanica.

Kingfisher Airlines is the brainchild of drinks tycoon Vijay Mallya, whose UB Group makes Kingfisher beer, India's top-selling brand, and a host of lifestyle goods.

Kingfisher Airlines, a recently launched low-cost carrier, had placed an order for 20 ATR planes in November.

The 15 ATRs for which the order was sealed on Sunday are to be delivered between March 2006 and August 2008.

Kingfisher Airlines took an option to buy 20 more aircraft.

(Reuters)
February 21, 2006
Indian discount airline SpiceJet said on Tuesday it had agreed to convert options for 10 Boeing 737s into firm orders and take an additional 10 options in a deal worth USD$1.4 billion at list price.

New Delhi-based SpiceJet said the order, announced at the Asian Aerospace air show in Singapore, would include five 737-800s and five of the longer-range 737-900ER model.

A spokesman for Boeing said the deal was expected to be finalized by mid-year.

SpiceJet began operations last May and said earlier this month that it expected to break even by next month.

It competes in a fast growing and increasingly tough local market with state-owned domestic carrier Indian Airlines, Jet Airways, Go Air and Air Deccan.

An estimated 19 million domestic passengers travelled by air in India during the year to last March, and the market is forecast to grow by more than 20 percent a year over the next five years, boosted by rising incomes and lower fares.

(Reuters)


February 22, 2006
India's Go Air said on Wednesday it plans to buy 20 Airbus A320 aircraft, as the start-up budget airline ramps up in a fast-growing and increasingly crowded local market.

Speaking from the Asian Aerospace air show in Singapore, Go Air head Jeh Wadia said the order included 10 firm orders and 10 as options, though he did not reveal the value of the deal.

Go Air, which began operations last October, competes with state-owned domestic carrier Indian, Jet Airways and other discount airlines such as SpiceJet and Air Deccan.

On Tuesday, SpiceJet announced a USD$1.4 billion deal with Boeing that converted options for 10 737s into firm orders and took on an additional 10 options.

An estimated 19 million domestic passengers travelled by air in India during the year to last March, and the market is forecast to grow by more than 20 percent a year over the next five years, boosted by rising incomes and lower fares.

(Reuters)

[jumpdrive]

GoAir orders 10 A320s

At an air show largely lacking in new aircraft orders, GoAir, the Mumbai-based "People's Airline," said yesterday in Singapore that it placed a firm order for 10 A320 family aircraft with options for 10 more.

Although deliveries are to start in 2008, MD Jeh Wadia said the exact delivery schedule, final financing mechanisms, mix of A320 types and engine selection have yet to be decided. However, he noted that "financially and commercially, Airbus has been incredibly aggressive."

The airline currently has three A320s in service with a fourth leased aircraft about to arrive and two more to come from an earlier lease agreement. Although working with leasing companies to decide the final configuration of the new aircraft deal, "at the moment it is an acquisition," he added.

[jumpdrive]

25 FEB 2006 Air-India fails IATA safety audit
Air-India has failed a safety audit conducted by the International Air Transport Association (IATA), though it does not mean its aircraft are unsafe to fly. It failed IATA's International Operations Safety Audit (IOSA) certificate renewal audit reportedly because it required adoption of certain training modules, especially in the face of its ordering 50 new aircraft from Boeing. An official said: "The withdrawal of the certification is temporary. We have already made arrangements to comply with the directives by March end following which we are sure to get the certificate back". (PTI)

[vagabond 47]

DEAR XPAT PILOTS,

INDIA IS A NATION OF 1 BILLION THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF GOOD FOs. HENCE NO XPAT FOs EVER.

(Brits & Aussis) a billion Indians may not produce a good pace bowler but good FOs yes.:ok: :}

I guess they are all flying in Europe then?