Solo Trip to France

[Whirlybird]

I'm just back from a 10-day flying trip to France, about half of it alone, in G-ATKF, the ancient C150 (she's nearly as old as me!) in which I have a share. For those who don't know, I'm a helicopter instructor, but a very average PPL(A) - 270 approx f/w hours over 8 years, and not a lot recently. So...be kind to me when I tell you about all my mistakes, please! :) Anyway, by popular request, here's a diary type account of my trip...the beginning at least; it may take a while for me to have time and energy to write it all up....

MONDAY 6TH JUNE

I'm at Sleap, and ready to go. This trip has been planned for months and I ought to be looking forward to it - flying slowly around France, where the weather and mood take us, having a holiday, no definite plans. It was meant to be fun, not a challenge. But now P (she doesn't want to be identified) is ill. We can't go at any other time, and I have the time off and the aircraft booked, and a cat sitter. And the weather forecast is good, even. There's no reason not to go alone, except...I'm scared. I don't do a lot of f/w flying, and I've only flown once in France. This feels like a major challenge, and I don't want a challenge; I want a holiday. I've asked everyone I can think of to come with me - pilots, PPRuNers, old friends. I've even offered to pay for the flying, asking them just to cover their own expenses. But no-one can make it at such short notice. So I'm on my own.

So, I'm ready to go. The plan is Sywell for lunch, then Rochester tonight. When you live this far north, and fly a C150, getting to France in a day is difficult. Besides, I'd rather cross the channel in the morning when I'm fresh. And this way, I put off the dreaded moment of setting off over water, alone, with a basic PPL and a fairly basic aircraft without a lot of instrumentation. Tomorrow is another day; I'll think about that then.

The flight to Sywell is uneventful and fun; the wx is good, I know the way, I've been there before. I have lunch, and try not to wish that P was with me. It's not just the flying; I really don't want to go on holiday alone. Still, I'm off to Rochester, which is a new airfield for me, and like lots of us, I collect new airfields. I can go either side of the London zone, but I decide to head west, down the corridor between Luton and Stansted. I've been that way before, and with good vis, it's not a real problem.

The first difficulty of the trip comes when I get to Rochester. If anyone had told me, in my nervous preflight state, that I'd have to approach over woods, to a grass runway on a hill causing all sorts of depth perception difficulties, I think I'd have elected to go to Headcorn, which I know. But they didn't, and I don't really have time to worry about it, and land safely. The chap in the tower tells me it's quite a challenging place to land, and I don't argue. Perhaps I'm not as bad at flying these things with non-whirly wings as I think I am. Certainly I'm often accused of being under-confident. Maybe it's true. Anyway, I get fuel, park, and tie KF down for the night. The people in the tower are friendly; they give me a flight plan form, and offer to help me fill it in if I get stuck. I get the impression they do this often. They also find me a taxi and a B & B. It's a nice place to stay; there are three cats, which is great as I'm already missing my own feline family. I look round Rochester, and eat in a small Italian restaurant. I then plan next day's flying. I'm going to Le Touquet to clear customs, then on to Deauville. I don't want to go to any small airfields in France yet, as I hardly speak any French. I was going to learn some, but decided not to bother, as P speaks it fluently. Oh well. I fall asleep telling myself that if I don't like it I can always come back to the UK and do some flying here...if my pride will let me!

More later....

[BRL]

Pictures too please Whirly :)

Look forward to reading the rest.

[Whirlybird]

BRL, I have pics, but don't know how to post them on here. If you tell me how, I'd do it. :ok:

TUESDAY 7TH JUNE

The forecast is great, but reality not quite so good. I arrive at Rochester to find good vis but overcast skies. I've filled in most of the flight plan form, and the people in the tower help me with the bits I can't remember. They also direct me back to the runway; I never was much good with finding grass runways in the middle of a big grass airfield. :confused: Everyone is wonderfully helpful. I put on my life jacket and set off.

As I approach the coast it becomes gradually more hazy, and I become gradually more worried. I can't get much higher than about 2500 ft, and there's no horizon at all, with the overcast sky merging into the sea. I begin to wonder if I should be doing this. I decide to give it a try, but be ready to turn back at the slightest hint that I'm getting disorientated. But actually, it's OK. There are about three ships ahead as I leave Dover, and one seems to be heading for Cap Gris Nez...though I suspect it's really heading for Bologne. Anyway, it helps to follow it, and about five miles out I can already see the French coast; the vis isn't as bad as it first appeared. I leave the carb heat out for the whole 18 miles across water; I have enough to think about without worrying about that, and the C150 is very prone to carb icing anyway.

Soon I'm at Cap Gris Nez, and I call Le Touquet. It all seems pretty straightforward...or would be if it wasn't peak time for the aerial day trippers from the south coast airfields. The sky is positively crowded, and we're all heading for Le Touquet. And everyone can find it except me; I don't see the airfield till I'm nearly on top of it. I think the controller twigs that I'm a bit confused, as with three of us downwind, he immediately tells me I'm number one. I think he wants to get me on the ground, and that's OK with me! Anyway, it's a bit of a bumpy crosswind landing - my first of many, as it turned out - but it's a huge runway and not really difficult. I head for the restaurant; I'm not really hungry, but lunch seems like a good idea. I'm shaking all over for some reason, but at the same time quite elated... I've made it to France, alone.

I have a couple of hours rest as I'm pretty tired, probably more stressed than tired, but they're connected when it comes to flying. I've decided to fly to Deauville via the Rouen VOR; I don't fancy the coastal route as it has a couple of these nuclear power station restricted areas, and I don't want to risk getting too near them. I put the route in my GPS too...belt and braces approach, I think you'd call it. There aren't many military areas on that route, and my only worry is if Rouen won't let me through their zone. But it's easy. Rouen talk to me, I understand them, they give me a squawk and leave me alone. This, I soon discover, is typical of French controlled airspace. The weather is good, though a bit bumpy and thermic on a warm afternoon. I take photos of the Seine winding through Rouen, and begin to enjoy myself. Deauville appears when it should; with another massive long runway it's not hard to find. Another bumpy crosswind landing, and I'm there. I've decided to go to Honfleur, which Alistair Arthur recommended in his articles on French airfields in Today's Pilot; I've photocopied the articles and brought them with me. The people at Deauville get me a taxi, and the taxi driver finds me a hotel. He speaks about as much English as I do French, though my long forgotten schoolgirl French is coming back a little, out of necessity. Anyway, I spend a happy evening looking round Honfleur, which is a gorgeous fishing village, though a bit over-touristy. But I'm unbelievably tired. I've been doing about 3 hours flying a day for the last two days, which doesn't sound like that much, but I think feeling so nervous and stressed is taking it out of me. Actually I feel much better now about doing the trip, but still really exhausted. I wonder if I should take the next day off and rest. However, I really, really want to get to the Loire Valley and see all the chateaus from the air. Angers, which I've been recommended to go to, is less than two hours away. I decide to fly there the following morning, and then reconsider.

More later....

[Bob Stinger]

Keep it coming Whirlybird, its a good read.

[stiknruda]

Good stuff Whirly... more!

I took my single seater down to Caen one long w/e, this time last year whilst recce-ing the trip for 7 of us later last summer.

Doing all alone does increase the workload - but just as you appear to, I had a good time.

Stik

[Aussie Andy]

Enjoying the read whirly - well done you for the solo effort! It can be amazing how much more daunting it is alone - I hate flying on my own these days!

Andy :ok:

[DiscoChocolate]

Whirly this is a fantastic read, type some more up, quick!

[Laundryman]

I wish I'd seen your invite on pprune I can usually take time off at a moments notice. So if you ever have that problem again let me know. Meanwhile I can't wait for the next installment.

[Whirlybird]

Aussie Andy,
I don't like flying on my own either. But I didn't have a lot of choice. Staying at home, with time off, an aircraft booked, and good weather, just wasn't an option.

Laundryman,
I didn't put an invite on PPRuNe; just asked PPRuNers that I knew personally. Maybe I should have done that though. But with hindsight, no, I shouldn't...read on...

My photos can be viewed at www.photobox.co.uk/album/1506035. No labels, unfortunately. :(

WEDNESDAY 8TH JUNE

I am totally knackered. My shoulders ache, my back aches, and most of all, my brain aches. I half consider returning to Le Touquet and the UK, but no, not yet. I really, really want to get to the Loire Valley. I'll fly to Angers, then I'll see. It's one straight line, with a VOR closeby, almost due south, with a tailwind. All I have to do is sit there and fly, isn't it?

I chat to some British pilots at Deauville, in a group, lucky sods. They're staying in the North, and I'm aware that once I head south, there may be less Brits around anyway. I'm on my own. But once I get airborne, all my fatigue and doubts vanish. I've noticed this a lot, especially when I'm flying regularly. The weather is good, though quite bumpy due to thermals and a reasonable wind. I try to talk to Paris North, but they don't answer. I know that neither Lille nor Paris talk to Brits if they don't feel like it, so I decide not to bother. I maintain a listening watch, but just fly south and look at the scenery. I use the VOR and my GPS, since flying by map and compass in France is quite hard - there just aren't a lot of ground features in some areas. It's under two hours with a tailwind, and soon I'm talking to Angers, who thankfully speak quite good English. The thermic weather makes the crosswind landing quite interesting; I think I'm getting quite good at these. I'm in the Loire Valley, and it's only midday. I pass on the restaurant, as my stomach feels a bit queasy; not sure if it's a mild stomach upset or nerves. I go to the terminal, buy a sandwich, which I nibble to keep my strength up, and drink lots of water. What now? I could stay here, but the airfield is a long way from the town. And it's early, and despite my queasy stomach I feel OK; a bit tired, but pretty confident and positive. I want to go on, though not too far. So...where? It's really either Tours or Blois. Blois sounds nice, but if I stay there, it will be an expensive taxi ride into town, and Honfleur already cost me a fortune for the same reason. The airport at Tours is near the town. It's military and civil, and I must be half brain dead, as I don't consider what that means. I decide to go to Tours, and stay there overnight.

It's only about 40 miles, even following the river and looking for chateaux, as I intend to do. So I'm looking forward to a nice gentle sightseeing flight for the afternoon, and an early start. Little do I know....

For a start, the wind has increased and shifted to Easterly. So I have a strong headwind. It's afternoon and hotter, so the thermal activity has increased. This makes for a very slow, bumpy flight. There are a lot of forests in the valley, making it even bumpier. If I climb too high I hardly make any headway - 56kts at one point, according to my GPS. Lower down, and I'm flung around like a sack of potatoes, which doesn't do my sensitive stomach any good at all. I'm beginning to want to be on the ground at Tours. I'll call them now.

An almost unintelligible French accent asks me to report at point W at 1100 ft. I look at Tours' approaches, and sort of find point W, but when I get there, it's not an obvious VRP like we have, and I'm not sure I'm in the right place. On top of that, I'm over woods again, and at 1100 ft I'm being thrown out of my seat and need two hands to hold the yoke! ATC asks if I can see the airfield, but I'm too low. I zoom up to 2000 ft, work out where the airfield is, then get down again...there are loads of fancy fast military jet things around, and I see why he wants me so low. He tells me to hold, then leaves me. I fly a kind of racetrack pattern parallel to the main runway so I don't lose it, trying to keep to something resembling 1100ft as the wind and thermals fling me around the sky. It's horrible! Why didn't I stay at Angers? I ask the ATC man if it'll be much longer. He asks for my endurance, and I say: "Well, it's about 2 hours, but I'm really tired", then realise how stupid that must sound to a military controller! He says he should be able to get me in in about ten minutes. I wonder whether to divert to Blois, but in those conditions I don't think I can find the page, frequency, plan the route, etc. I could return to Angers, and with a tailwind I'd be back there very quickly. I decide to give it five minutes, then go. I feel horrible. I want to be on the ground.

A few minutes later ATC tell me to join right downwind. Since I'm on the left, and he wants me still at 1100 ft, I can't think how, and say so. I'm suffering from brain fade anyway by now. With lots of repeats due to the fact I can't understand the accent, he finally gets me to cross the centre of the runway, and when I eventually report downwind, I can almost hear him cheering. I'm almost cheering too. I'll apologise to him when I get on the ground. I turn final for the bumpiest crosswindiest landing ever but I don't care; I just point at the runway and land, no idea how or what I did. I vacate the runway, but can't apologise, as I get passed straight to Ground. A woman with an even more atrocious accent directs me to the GA part of the airfield, which seems to be in the middle of nowhere, telling me in no uncertain terms that they don't deal with civilians for fuel!

I get to the GA part, taxi to the fuel bay, and shut down. Then I just sit there. I feel utterly weary. I want to go home! I haven't even seen a chateau, how could I, in those conditions?

Suddenly, a young man comes out to ask if I want fuel. He speaks about as much English as I do French, but he's friendly and helpful, and insists on doing the refuelling for me. And he's the first of perhaps the friendliest bunch of people I've ever met. They help me, carry my luggage, find me a hotel, even drive me out there. I'm staying in a cheap hotel near the airport; I'm too knackered for any sightseeing. But it's a nice place, friendly, and the simple meal they provide is delicious. My stomach is better and I really enjoy the good French food, eaten in friendly though almost silent cameraderie round two large tables. How do the French manage to make even simple meals so delicious? I feel better. I'll sleep in tomorrow, then carry on, maybe to Limoges where I vaguely know an English lady who does B & B, maybe first to La Rochelle, maybe seeing a bit of the Loire Valley once I get out of Tours' zone.

I call P, and suddenly our plans get changed! She is better, and kicking herself at not coming. OK, I say, why doesn't she get a Ryanair flight to Limoges, and I'll meet her at Sue's place. So we decide she'll do that on Friday if she can get a flight, then join me for the trip north. Hurray! Suddenly all is well. No route planning tonight. I'll decide on my exact plans in the morning. But one thing is clear, I only have another 1-2 days of solo flying in France, then there'll be two of us - half the work, half the cost, twice the fun.

[Laundryman]

Hhhhm I think what's coming out of this is that flying solo in a foriegn country is do-able but can result in work overload because of the number of unfamiliar things happening at the same time. I agree duel has got to be more fun and shared load.

[Andy_R]

Brilliant writing...look forward to the next episode :ok:

[muffin]

You are doing well Whirly - a tale well told

[Justiciar]

Great story ... keep it coming.

I'd be interested to know how you get on with those red low level corridors which seem to cross all over France.

[Whirlybird]

Justiciar,
Sorry, I left out anything about the military restricted areas. You're right, they do appear to crisscross the whole of France. In some areas this is complicated; when we tried to fly to Salzburg last year it was horrendously complicated. But most of the west of the country only has low level ones, usually 800-1500 ft, or occasionally up to 2000 ft. Then there are others above 3000 ft. So you keep an eye on things, but fly between 2000 and 3000 ft, and you're OK. But yes, it's just one more thing to consider.

THURSDAY 9TH JUNE

I've had enough. I think about flying to La Rochelle, but I'm just not interested. I want a break. So I decide to go straight to Limoges, which is less than two hours flying. That way I can have this afternoon and tomorrow off from flying, and then P is arriving - she called back; it's all arranged. I've phoned Sue, and told her I'll be arriving. She is a part time instructor at Limoges Airport, and has a place in the country half an hour away. She tells me to call when I arrive.

I get a taxi back to Tours Airport. I ask the friendly people there about departure procedures, and what I'm likely to have to do. They describe it all to me, and tell me I'll probably be routed to point E, then left alone. I work out where point E is, and decide to meander around the Loire Valley after that, looking for chateaux, then fly straight to Limoges. I'm quite looking forward to it since I know it'll be my last solo flight, and my last flight for a bit anyway.

It doesn't quite work out that way. Tours route me to point E at 1100 ft, then tell me to report at point S!!!!! This is too much! Where the hell is point S, and why can't they leave me alone. Well, I see point S now, at least it's near the river and between two towns, so hopefully I can find it. And it's morning, so there's less thermal activity. I report "approaching point S" - clever that, since I don't know exactly where it is. They ask me to report leaving the frequency. You bet I will! I leave as soon as I can, and then fly around looking at the river. I find and photograph a couple of chateaux, and enjoy the lovely scenery of the Loire Valley; it really is beautiful. Then I set heading for Limoges.

It's another lovely day; I've been really lucky with the weather. All goes well till I try to call Limoges. No reply. OK, I think, I'm too far away; I'll try in a few minutes. Still no reply. I'm now nearly in their airspace, and it's Class D. I carry on for a bit, still no reply. I try the other radio, no luck. I begin to think about this. It's France, and they're unpredictable, but I can't really land at an airport in Class D airspace without contacting anyone, can I? I try again. Still no reply. I think maybe I've had radio failure. I get out my handheld, strategically placed where I can reach it. I start orbiting, and look at it. I've never used it in earnest, and now, with a lot to do, I can't think how to use it. Take it slow, I think...and I fiddle about and manage it. But still no reply. I can hear everyone else, and it dawns on me that failure of three radios is most unlikely! I decided to carry on, get close to the airport, then decided whether to land and sort it out on the ground, land at a small airfield, or call someone on my mobile from the air. But of course, eventually Limoges talk to me. This is France; don't expect it to be like England. It's quiet there; they give me a squawk and tell me to report field in site, then clear me to land. Limoges is only big and crowded when Ryanair arrive.

So I land, and it's lunchtime. I can't get any fuel. I can't pay the landing fee as the computer is out of order and no-one wants to know. I hang about, eventually get fuel, ask to tie down KF. No blocks available, and parking on the grass not allowed. Eventually I locate some blocks, and I'm allowed to have them if I fill in forms in triplicate and give them back on Saturday. This is insane. I call Sue, who I know is picking someone up from the Ryanair flight at 6 pm. I say I'll wait, but she insists on coming out to get me: "I can give you lunch, and you can be lying by the pool all afternoon". I don't argue!

Sue's place is gorgeous. It's an old farmhouse about half an hour from Limoges, in the depths of the country. She has dogs and horses, and there's a swimming pool. She does B & B, and there are several people staying. A British couple are househunting, and one English chap is arriving this evening to do some flying with Sue to get his required 12 hours for the year - at around £75/duel, why not? It's a fantastic place to go and have a holiday or fly or both. You can email her at [email protected] for details; I promised her I'd let everyone know. I'm thinking of getting a Ryanair flight there later in the year to do some touring of the south with Sue. Anyway, I lie by the pool all afternoon, Sue feeds me, and I collapse gratefully into bed feeling that life is good.

[dublinpilot]

Great diary. Thanks for posting!

I'm curious about the "Report point E" termonology.

I haven't heard this before. Is this common in France?

Are these specific reporting points or simply East of the airfield? If they are specific places, how do you know where/what they are?

dp

[stiknruda]

What is worrying me Whirly is this constant "duel" (sic) that you seem to be having with the controllers!

tell 'em what you want - in either English or French! If you are unfamiliar with position "S" - tell them, you need to remember who is charge! It is you, the PIC.

Flying in France is generally very, very easy!

Stik

[GroundBound]

A great read Whirly.

Pity I didn't know about it - I really fancy a trip down the Loire - I could have met you on this side of the Manche, and it would have been great to fly in KF again, too, and I could have helped with the French as its become second nature now.

Don't think I could have swung it with the missus, though :( (except for the horsey bit).

Keep it coming, its a good story :)

[Aussie Andy]

Your story of the approach to Tours rings some bells from a trip we did to Barcelona a few years ago, where Tours was our first fuel-stop.

dublinpilot says:I'm curious about the "Report point E" termonology. This is common at a lot of French (and some other European) airfields, particularly the larger ones. "E" would be said as "Echo" and would typically indicate a point to the East, W Whiskey West, November-Whiskey northwest etc. At Tours they seemed to have dozens of the things... from memory e.g. NA being like NE but further out for example (I don't have the plate to hand). The idea is that it enables controller to clearly/easily direct VFR traffic to approach via known locations.

At Tours they have a lot of MIL training (I believe it is in fact a civil field but that certain early jet training is done there under contract). Loads of "Alpha Jet" activity. On the day that we arrived, we approached via (say) NE, expectyeing to simply be given a right base join or something - but we were directed first to N then NW then NC (or whatever - guessing now!) then W, S, etc etc. Much shuffling of paper in the front seats looking for these points which, as Whirly says, don't always seem to correspond with geographically notable spots (at least not at first glance when at low level). At the same time we were being told to remain at 1100', which confused us as this was low versus the terrain... controllers accents were also confusing us... eventually we realised it was 1100' on the "Fox Echo" (QFE)... All of a sudden, after being again asked to confirm we were definitely at 1100', we were told "standby for Alpha Jet formation to pass overhead 1500'" i.e. just a few hundred feet above! IT was a great view, and suddenyl we understood why we were being vectored all around the houses!

Since then I've always paid more attention to the VFR reporting points near large French airfields and anticipate that I may be asked to track to/from any of these. The system works well, and is easy once you know about it - it's just a bit different to what happens around here so something of a surprise the first time :)

Andy :ok:

[dublinpilot]

Thanks Andy.

I take it, these would be marked in a VFR guide or such?

Which one did you use, and same question to Whirly?

And more importantly, would you recommond that one?

dp

[Whirlybird]

stik,

Flying in France easy? Errr....yes. Except when it isn't. And the easy bits pass in this thread as one sentence of looking at the view for an hour or so with nothing happening. The bits that aren't cover a lot of space. That's life...and flying, and writing.

Anyway, my conversation to the controller on approaching Tours in the first place went something like this:
ATC: Report Whiskey point (deciphered after several say agains, as his accent really was atrocious)
Me: Errr...Tours, I'm not familiar with the area. Where is point Whiskey?
Tours: "What? You don't KNOW Whiskey point!"
Me; Hold On. (Grabbing plate). Tours, I think I can find it, but is it a specific point on the ground?
No reply, ATC is busy directing someone else. By the time he comes back, I'm orbiting in roughly the right area and despite my pleas, he wants me to hold for ever.

So you see, by the time I came to leave, I just wanted to obey instructions and have as little conversation with him as possible. I could approximately find point Sierra, so what the hell?

Aussie Andy tells it like it is. I was prepared after this. When we went to La Rochelle, I had the approach points transferred to the chart. We didn't need them...something totally different happened! Read on to find out...but not yet; I'm taking my cat sitter flying this morning.

dublin pilot,
I used the Jeppesen Bottlang France Trip Kit. It's fine, the points are marked, it's just that they don't correspond to anything specific and aren't easy to find. Especially if you haven't prepared in advance. You see, flying in France is generally very informal, so when it isn't, it can catch you out.

[Maarten]

Two weeks ago I had to divert to Tours due to some pretty awful weather which was moving in rather fast and was getting increasingly anoyed with the controller at Tours.
I was unable to understand him even after asking him to repeat again slowely twice, on almost every transmision he made. I was then asked to orbit at Echo for a while when the Alpha jets did their bit. In the mean time the cracks of lightning from embedded CB's were get closer and closer. I was eventually cleared to land but it was not the most enjoyable experience.

Maarten

[Aussie Andy]

dublinpilot:I take it, these would be marked in a VFR guide or such? As Whirly says, the Jeppesen/Bottlang VFR plates have all these points marked.

And these days you can also get the French plates from their online AIS system as follows: Go to http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm
Select AIP -> France Metropolitaine
Select "CARTES D'APPROCHE ET D'ATTERRISSAGE A VUE (VAC)"
Select T -> AD 2.LFOT TOURS VAL DE LOIRE
[/list=1] This takes you to http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip/enligne/METROPOLE/AIP/VAC/T/VAC%20AD%202.LFOT.pdf which is the visual plate for Tours LFOT, and you will see the points marked:[list] Novemeber - to the north
November Echo - northeast
Whiskey - just west of the field
Echo - east of the field
Sierra - Sort of south east of the field
Sierra Whiskey - a long way south-west of the field
Langeais - a town to the south west To be fair to our froggy friends, all of these correspond with some sort of ground feature, such as a road-junction, but I must say if you are not anticipating these then at low level all the road-junctions (or villages or whatever) look similar and so it is hard to be certain you are where they want you if you haven't planned for this!

Writing them on your chart, or sticking them into your GPS via Navbox or similar before you go is easy solution - but as Whirly says, you don't always need to use them, and anyway if you just tip up at a field (whether for pleasure of diversion) you need to just figure it out from the plate.

I think generally speaking the bigger the airfield, and the more MIL activity, the more likley it is you will need to use these points.

Andy :ok:

[dublinpilot]

Thanks a million Andy. That is very helpful! Especially the link!

I'm just starting to plan my own trip to France, probably at going for the last two weeks in August.

As I look at my gps now for this airfield, I see that it already has these points in it! I love PocketFMS more and more!

dp

[Fujiflyer]

Hi Whirls


Its been good reading your updates so far. Keep them coming... ;)

France is great to fly in but the differences between UK and FR do tend to make us on edge a bit when we not used to it - I think this is especially poignant for VFR flying. I've done a few mad, hair raising trips through France and Spain over the last few years, I would say the following factors increase the stress above the norm for flying, for me:

1. Lack of familiarity with airspace and general procedures (example: clearances frequently not explicitly read out),
2. Not being allowed to fly IFR (I hold an IMCR but no IR),
3. Not being fluent in French (hence more difficult to query something ATC say which you're unsure of),
4. We tend to be flying to our endurance limits because of the large distances involved & limited time - this was obvious from what you said and I do exactly the same (such as struggling to visualise circuit patterns, making poor RT calls etc, the so called brain fade you mentioned),
5. Concern in respect of the Wx because we're not used to the area - hence its more difficult to judge in the air while we're flying,
6. General concerns such as; Will the airport have 100LL? Where will we stay tonight? Can I find the VRPs?

Good luck with the rest of the trip. The satisfaction of completing a long European tour is unbelievably fantastic.

Learn a bit of aviation French, know your VRPs (once you're used to the compass reporting points they're easier than the UK because you know roughly where on your map to look). Carry plenty of cash so you don't have to worry whether or not your CC will be accepted.


Maybe see you at the next Gatbash,

Rich

[Whirlybird]

FRIDAY 10TH JUNE

Much needed day off! I send some things home, because with two of us we'll be really tight on weight. After P realised she couldn't come I decided to take another book or two, and more than one change of clothes; now, I send them home. I also do some laundry, because I can. Apart from that I lie by the pool, talk to the dogs and horses, and go for country walks. By the evening I'm recovered, and itching to be back in the air!

BTW, Sue's website is at www.nearlyheaven.com.

SATURDAY 11TH JUNE

Sue is flying to La Rochelle for lunch with the chap who's over here from the UK doing his 12 hours flying with her, and we decide we'll go along too. We all go the airport together, and leave around the same time. They're in a Robin and much faster than us, but we arrange to meet at la Rochelle airport, then get a taxi into the old part of town for a meal.

P is flying, and I navigate and do the radio. It's just so much easier with two of us; I actually have time to look at the view! It's all slightly odd at first; P is feeling a bit strange to be suddenly flying in the middle of France, and I, instead of relying on her a lot, realise I'm the one with all the recent French flying experience. For instance, I've marked the possible La Rochelle reporting points on the half mil chart, so that I can find them if necessary. La Rochelle is Class D, and apparently sometimes very crowded. But not this time. When we make our first radio call, there is no reply, and Sue, about to shut down after landing, tells us over the radio that there's no-one there, and to just make blind calls in French. Now, can you imagine that happening at an airport in Class D airspace in the UK? Anyway, P asks if I want her to do it, and I say no, if I don't have to fly as well I can manage. I get out my crib sheet, and manage to say when we're ten minutes from the airport, and then make airfield in sight, downwind, and final calls. It's odd; I feel a bit like when I first learned to fly; I press the transmit button and then can't think what to say, and have to read it. Anyway, we turn over the sea with gorgeous scenery, and land in a deserted airport. We go for lunch in the picturesque old part of town, then wander around, then get a taxi back. La Rochelle airport has completely changed. A commercial flight is in, and we can't get back to the aircraft without showing our pilots' licences, which of course we've left in KF. They decide that passports will do, but make us go through security etc with all the passengers. It's all very crowded and different from when we arrived.

We've decided to fly up to La Baule for the night, a small airfield by a beach resort. I fly, P does the nav and radio. It's almost all coastal flying, and very easy and pretty. We're not sure if there'll be anyone at La Baule, but it turns out they're doing parachuting. They give us incomprehensible instructions, and neither of us manage to understand how we're supposed to approach. We tell them we just don't understand, and they let us land anyway. Sometimes even P's fluent French doesn't help, especially when people think they're speaking English! Anyway, it's a lovely friendly little airfield, and they phone for a hotel for us. What we don't know is that some sort of sailing regatta is on, and we get about the last hotel room in town. But it's fine, a small local hotel on the outskirts of a modern beach resort. We drink beer, wander along the front, look at the shops, and enjoy the contrast with old and pretty La Rochelle. This is definitely beginning to feel more like a holiday. It's not that I don't like flying alone, but it's definitely more fun with two. But I'm beginning to realise how much I've learned in the four days alone, and I'm very, very glad I did it. But if I did it again, and I might, I'd learn the language better, and do less flying - either only one leg per day, or take off one day in every two.

[lesking]

Good moaning

I (the chap from England) took a rather lazier approach to flying in the 'heart' of France.

First step was a Ryanair flight from Stanstead direct to Limoges - Have done two trips this year which both cost about £70 booked a couple of weeks in advance.

Car hire is very cheap (from about £17 per day) - Hertz and Europcar vehicles can be booked on-line and picked-up/returned directly outside of the terminal though Sue (www.nearlyheaven.com) is happy to ferry her customers to and from the airport.

It really is very handy flying with an English pilot who knows the local area and procedures though we fitted-in some quite long trips including the one (mentioned by Whirlybird) to La Rochelle who were only responding to calls in French on that particular morning.

Best of all is the cost of the flying with the Aeroclub Limoges - About half that of a UK club and I do like the Robin DR400 with it's excellent visibility and (oh joy) a stick.

The club have 2 DR400-140's and a DR400-180 as well as a DA40 Diamond Star which I hope to fly on a future trip.

All of my previous French flying was to the 'day trip' destinations where they are well used to handling British pilots with the minimum of formality.

The landing fees up that end tend to be at English levels though they seem to range between nothing and 4 or 5 euros in the rest of France.

A few tips on filing flight plans:

At Le Touquet, this is now done by FAX but do be sure to press the right button or you will end up simply making a copy as I did - TWICE.

At Deauville, the machine for submission of flight plans has never worked (for me) in several years - You go though the long-winded process of entering all of the data (which takes several minutes) and it then fails to transmit - Just pick up the phone next to the machine and read out the flight plan to a person which takes less than 2 minutes.

At Rouen, I once wasted 45 minutes trying to file a flight plan - There was nobody about to take it, the machine was not working and several numbers provided by ATC did not answer.

I decided to file while airborne with Deauville who insisted that this was only possible 'in person' though we then switched to Le Touquet (on our route) who were happy to take the plan by radio.

Next time to Rouen, I will file the return flight plan at the same time as the outgoing.

Regards


Les

[Whirlybird]

Well, hi Les; I wondered if you'd get to read this. ;) Didn't mention your name, as not everyone wants 80,000+ people to know about them...I don't care, as you've probably gathered. Glad you made it back to Limoges from La Rochelle safely. I'm making fairly serious plans to get a Ryanair flight to Limoges in September and go flying with Sue...though I don't have your excuse of needing the hours.

More diary later...

[lesking]

Hours well completed now and future visits will be purely for fun.

I was previously a member of a syndicate for about 18 years until we sold our well-knackered Fuji 200 last year (Rust In Peace).

I had intended to join a UK club and may still do so but Limoges is a great base for travelling throughout France and other European destinations at a cost comparable to syndicate aircraft ownership but with no risk of any unforseen major bills.

In practice, probably a good bit cheaper unless you are able to fly quite frequently.

The presence of a locally-based UK flying instructor is a considerable bonus so I have now added two DR400 types (140 & 180) to my experience.

I saw a mention of Pocket FMS in this discussion and will take this up in a new thread.

Regards


Les

[2Donkeys]

This is a fun story to read, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it concludes.

Whilst I can appreciate that you say your fixed-wing experience is quite meagre, you are a CPL(H) and instructor as I understand it. This implies a familiarity with certain basic aspects of pre-flight planning. Strangely, many of your workload inducing issues appear to be related to planning problems.

For example

- routing Echo followed by Sierra is the standard *documented* departure from Tours for points south. You'll find it in Bottlang and in the free online AIP. The routing exists to stop you busting the ZIT near Sorigny. EUR 150,000 fine for that offence.

http://www.polestaraviation.com/content/tours.jpg


- La Baule was NOTAMed with parachute activity on the day of your flight (I was also in the area)

It is tough to tell from your write-up what kind of pre-flight planning you actually perform, but perhaps a little more would lessen your workload?

2D

[Whirlybird]

SUNDAY 12TH JUNE

We've been amazingly lucky so far; we've had good weather all the way, AND TAILWINDS!!! We think this can't last forever, and it seems like it won't. The weather in the UK is due to change at some point next week. P has to be back on Tuesday; I have a couple of days more if needed. We decide to go from La Baule to Granville for lunch. A British pilot at Deauville told me it was a nice place, but it's air to air in French only, and I didn't fancy trying it alone. After that we want to get close enough to Le Touquet that we can cross the channel on Monday if it seems necessary due to weather; if I have to, I can drop P off anywhere in the UK, and get back to Sleap whenever possible. I suggest Le Havre, but P wants to go somewhere small. On the strength of a nice picture in the Piloteplus guide, we decide on Bernay. We know nothing about it, but that's the fun of flying, sometimes.

We explore the coast around La Baule from the air for a bit, then set heading for Granville. We go through Rennes airspace, talk to them, no problems at all. This is how flying in France is meant to be. Getting close to Granville, we take photos of St Michel (spelling?), an interesting building on a tiny little island. We're not sure what's there, but it's a restricted area, so we circle as close to it as we can. Someone reading this will probably know what's there and be amazed at my ignorance; do let me know! I make blind calls in French to Granville; I'm getting used to this now, and next time I could do it alone. It's only the first time in aviation that things can seem really difficult. We land, and the restaurant is closed...despite what it says in Piloteplus. Lovely friendly little airfield though, and right close to the beach. We get directed to walk along the beach to the next village if we want to eat, and we find a roadside cafe, with good food as usual...can you get bad food in France? We come back, refuel, and set off for Bernay.

We're now inland, and almost retracing my original route to Deauville. We talk to Rouen, who are as professional and understandable as before, and I now recognise the town and the Seine. Bernay has a grass runway, and its extremely wide, a bit disorientating on final, but I land safely. We can't work out where their taxiways are, and it's air to air in French again. We manage somehow, then park, and there's hardly anyone around. We tie down KF, and for once are glad of the Piloteplus guide to find a number for a taxi and a hotel. This guide tells you about airfield restaurants, places to stay, taxis, sites of local interest etc. It's sort of bilingual, though mainly in French. It's not always correct, but it's worth buying for the taxi numbers alone, unless you like long walks from airports. Anyway, our hotel turns out to be confortable and good value, but boring and modern, and on the outskirts of town. I suggest to P that we get a taxi to the centre of town to explore and have a meal. We do, and it's lovely. It's full of interesting old buildings, with loads to see. However, most of the retaurants are closed as it's Sunday, and we eventually end up in a Chinese restaurant. Well, why not?

2Donkeys,

I think my post crossed with yours.

I had the plate for Tours, I knew about point Sierra, but was told by everyone at the GA part of Tours that I\'d be able to go to Echo then do my own thing. They turned out to be wrong, so I followed instructions. But I wasn\'t pleased, that\'s all...and that\'s all I said.

We weren\'t able to get NOTAMS at La Rochelle; everything was closed when we arrived, and we had trouble talking to anyone when we left. Nantes told us about the parachute activity at La Baule, so we knew; our problem was understanding exactly what they wanted us to do.

I do the usual preflight planning. I don\'t bother to go into detail about exactly what I do, since I take it as read. I don\'t mention that I shower and brush my teeth either.

[2Donkeys]

My posting predated your most recent, in which you talk about your trip to Granville.

Once again, it may interest you to know that the airfield at Granville is restricted use, being available only to based aircraft and those visiting the resident maintenance company.

This dispute relates to the arrival of a parachute club and the insistance on the part of the DGAC that a FISO is now necessary to manage the traffic. The club doesn't want to pay, so the restriction is now in place. The club is suffering under the restriction and it is major bone of contention.

You'll find that the restiction is NOTAMed, as well as being on the club's website:

http://www.aeroclubgranville.com/aviation/index.php

LFFA-D1146/05
Q)LFRR/QFALT/IV/NBO/ A/000/999/4853N00134W005
A) LFRF GRANVILLE
B) 200503250000 C) 200509092300
E) AERODROME LIMITE :
AD RESERVE AUX ACFT BASES ET CEUX A DEST DE L'UNITE D'ENTRETIEN AIR COTENTIN

Aircraft such as yours landing there are uninsured, and in breach of the law. A G-reg was impounded there briefly two weeks ago by the Gendarmes checking compliance with the rules.

You'll note that the problem has also been covered on Pprune:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168431&highlight=Granville


I love reading about the adventure, but I still think that your flight planning needs some attention.

2D

[Whirlybird]

MONDAY 13TH JUNE

We decide to drop into Abbeville for lunch. I manage to ascertain whether the runway is 02 or 20 - always confusing - in French, without even using a crib sheet! I'll learn toi speak French yet. The restaurant is supposed to be open, but isn't. We can't get fuel either, and we didn't get any at Bernay. A quick calculation shows that we'll be OK for Le Touquet, so we set off. We arrive in Le Touquet mid-afternoon, and check the weather. It looks like our luck will hold, and we decide to have a last overnight in France.

TUESDAY 14TH JUNE

The weather is lovely. We take off, and can see the white cliffs of Dover from Cap Gris Nez. We head for Lydd; this is a nostalgia thing on my part, since as a child my family used to go on touring holidays in France, using the Lydd-Le Touquet car ferry. With the time difference, we get there mid-morning, then fly to Oxford, where I leave P. I fly to Wellesbourne to spend the night with a friend. The headwind is picking up horribly, and I really don't want to have to battle it all the way to Sleap, especially as I have a couple more days free anyway. According to all the forecasts I've seen, there's a front due on Thursday, but nothing untoward till then. But the FISO at Wellesbourne shows me the latest wx, and it's changed. The front is now due the next day! I consider leaving; I'm so close; I don't want to get stranded now. But the wind is picking up still more, and I'm too tired; it just wouldn't be sensible. I decide to stay overnight, and get home when I can.

WEDNESDAY 15TH JUNE

I wake up to rain, as expected. I mope around, wondering if I'll be able to leave in the afternoon, or whether I should just take the day off and go sightseeing in Stratford. Eventually I go to the airport, check the wxc, phone Wolverhampton and Sleap, and decide it seems OK. I set off mid-afternoon for Sleap. The vis is great, but the wind a bit strong. At Sleap it's about 25kts, down the runway, but gusting. I'm ready to do a go-around if necessary, but luck is on my side; the gusts stop while I'm on final, and I land safely. I put KF to bed and sadly say goodbye to her...because I wish it wasn't over and I'd like to do it all again!

[BeeBee]

What a fantastic read. Thank you for sharing that with us.

[ShyTorque]

Whirly,

Well done for putting your story up here.

Shame that whatever gets posted on this website, there is always some smartar$e waiting to pounce to prove he is more experienced / better / bigger / has more hours / holier than thou.

2D, you are that man. :rolleyes:

[Aerobatic Flyer]

So it's OK to land at an airfield that is NOTAMed as closed to visitors?:confused:

To answer a question raised above, Mont St Michel is an abbey built in the middle ages on a rock that dominates the Baie de Mont St Michel - which is famous for some of the fastest tides in the world. Well worth a visit, out of the tourist season. There's a restricted zone around it (I think to 3500ft - haven't got a chart handy) to stop people flying around it too low.

[2Donkeys]

Sorry you feel that way Shyte old chap!

I reckon that it's a bad mistake to land at an airfield that is NOTAMed as unavailable.

I think I kept the tone of my posting very positive. I liked the story, but I think that the flight planning that it demonstrates could be better. No more no less.

Brits turning up failing to follow the rules and apparently unaware of NOTAMs don't do anybody any favours.

That isn't a personal attack on Whirlybird, it is a statement of fact.

2D

[aaron5150]

well said ShyTorque... that was fantastic Whirly! That place sue has seems well worth the visit, even if only to ride the horses!

Thanks for the well structured diary, it gives me a real insight and things to learn before going over to France for my first flying visit with a friend. :cool:

And too 2D, just give it a rest! People like you put me off flying that i am not used too. At the end of the day flying is meant to be FUN & SAFE! they had a good time... maybe you should try that for yourself one day :ok:


Do you happen to know if sue offers any horse riding lessons? I have never been within 10' of a horse
:sad:

[2Donkeys]

At the end of the day flying is meant to be FUN & SAFE!

I'll try to remember that. Top tip!

2D

[stiknruda]

I'm prone to jump to the defense of those that are by "hearsay" judged guilty by others on this forum.

Whirly, as 2D consistently points out politely, is guilty by her own admission. I agree with 2D that a bit more prep/planning would have saved her an enormous amount of stress.

I recently led a 7 ship Balbo to Abbeville - having recce'd the whole thing first as a singleton, I realised that being able to make important radio calls in French was pretty imperative, I learned the correct phraseology - you'd not want some poor French chap inbound to his home field in his Jodel, who couldn't speak English, not to know that seven fast moving a/c were inbound to land in stream!

I've met and like them both - this is not personal! It's all a learning thing.

Luv


Stik

[ShyTorque]

No-one's perfect and a "word in one's ear" can just as easily be passed on by a private message, rather than in the form of a public dressing down. If done that way, one can avoid any embarrassment or bad feeling.

[LowNSlow]

Excellent diary Whirl, Sue's place sounds like a great place to visit.

[Whirlybird]

In case it wasn't obvious, I've learned many, many things from this trip. To mention but a few...

1) ALWAYS Read the NOTAMS. I usually do, actually. The problem occurs when I don't have internet access, ie away from home, and can't easily get them at the airfield...all too frequent, I find. I then tend to rely on what people tell me, and that's not always correct...as we found out. Though I have to say, everyone was so laid back and welcoming at Granville, I'd never have known we shouldn't be there! But thanks, 2D. I have suitably wrapped my own knuckles...and I'm being serious now!
2) Learn French. I would have done, if I'd known I was going to be doing this solo. It would have helped enormously. But to try to do it at about 24 hours notice would only have increased the workload, and I decided not to.
3) Always expect to have to route to published points, VRPs etc, even if everyone says you won't even to, even though it's France and usually informal. It might happen.
4) Realise that someone on PPRuNe will ALWAYS point out where you could have done better, and someone else will get upset about them doing that, and someone else.... What I mean is, maybe enough said on all those points...but thanks for the support, ShyTorque and others. :ok:

BTW, I should point out that if anyone DOES want to flame me, for any reason, they should do it privately, or this whole thread will be deleted. This is not because I'm that sensitive - I've been on PPRuNe too long for that. It's because this thread involves other people, who may not even know it's here, and it's not fair on them. I posted this as a fun account, which people might like to read. I'm happy for it to become anything else useful. But if it turns nasty, it goes, immediately!!!

aaron,

Forgot to say, I think Sue does give riding lessons, but I\'m not certain. Check on www.nearlyheaven.com, or email her at [email protected].

[GroundBound]

About the French (language that is), we should remember that whilst learning the various pilot calls (vent arriere etc.) is commendable, it is only half the problem as one still has to understand the ATC calls addressed in that language.

I flew into le Tooks on Tuesday (sorry I missed you Whirly :( ), and for some brief moments the R/T was warming up, with the controller getting shorter and faster with his transmissions. Also, one UK reg was doing his best to use French for the cirucit calls, when it was more than obvious that the controller's English was better than the pilot's French, which had the adverse effect of adding to the R/T loading.

I live and use French daily, and although I understand the ATC calls made in French, I still use English when speaking to ATC. I've never had a problem in France with French controllers not using reasonable English - but maybe that's because I haven't flown to the places Whirly went to. :)

A good read Whirly, with some lessons learned for everyone, I'm sure. And, yes, the vis on Tuesday at le Tooks was fantastic - as I approached the field from 10nm East, at 2000ft, I could see right across the Channel to the white cliffs and a bit beyond - lovely sight :) :)

GB

[2Donkeys]

I've never had a problem in France with French controllers not using reasonable English - but maybe that's because I haven't flown to the places Whirly went to.

The particular problem is not normally controlled fields. These are normally bilingual and the only gripe for non-french-speakers is that the mixture of languages dramatically affects situational awareness.

The real problem is when you get airfields such as Granville that have no controller (or FISO) and are operated on the basis of UNICOM-style air-to-air calls. This so-called "Auto-information" needs to be in French and like any UNICOM system, listening to and understanding the other aircraft that are using the field is at least important as broadcasting your intentions.

2D

[mazzy1026]

I cant believe I didn't see this for 4 days!

I have just read the thread from top to bottom, and I have to congratulate Whirls on such a respectable achievement. To fly solo like that into pretty much unknown territory is fantastic. I envy your determination and sheer guts to do such a thing :ok:

The writeup is excellent and will help many people who are planning to do such a thing, maybe including me in time to come.

Best wishes,

Maz :ok:

[jayemm]

Good story, well written.

The other situation to watch out for when flying to France is that airfields such as Deauville can become unlicensed at short notice. When this happens you can still land and take-off but you must be able to speak and understand Approach and Circuit-French. So it's always best to phone first to find out. I phoned Deauville and luckily found out that they weren't licensed on that particular Sunday until 1400, so was prepared. Unlike at least 3 UK pilots who turned back/diverted after they couldn't understand what was going on! Quel Dommage! :ok:

[Whirlybird]

Good point. I think a lot of problems could be solved by phoning the airfield first in any case. I always do this in the UK, and was going to in France. However, at Deauville I asked if they would call Angers for me to check they were open etc, and the reaction was that all I had to do was look in the flight guide, and it was an airfield, so of course they were open! I eventually persuaded him to phone, and understood enough to know that he felt that the "petite anglaise" who was so worried was really over-reacting a little bit. So after that I didn't phone. But no prizes for guessing what I'll be doing on future trips!

[n5296s]

A great read, thanks Whirly.

But people like 2D are really doing their best to make sure we don't get any more of them. Someone takes the time - and decent writing does take a lot of time - to write up a story, and there's always some a*$ehole to jump in and nanny them to death, "oh you bad pilot you, fancy not being familiar with section 16.348(d) part 14 of the Lithuanian regulations, it's people like you who give General Aviation a bad name".

If you *really* think your two cents is that important, at least have the decency to say it privately. Better yet, just don't bother. That way maybe other people will feel OK with writing about their flying experiences.

I was thinking what a t*t this guy was before I saw all the other posts saying so. Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

n5296s

[dublinpilot]

In all fairness to 2D's I think he was trying to help out.

He is a very experienced pilot, compared to most of us. I believe he looked at Whirlys posts, where she indicated that she found the cockpit workload very high, and stressful, and simply wanted to help point he in the right direction.

No doubt he has made the same mistakes in the past at some point, and has learnt to overcome them, and simply wanted to pass on his experience.

If you read his posts again, you will note that while he has tried to provide some guidance, he has also tried to include his positive support and encouragement in his posts, to keep balance.

Perhaps his point might have been better made in a pm (he may even accept that himself?) but in any case, I believe his posts were not to give his 2 cents worth, but were actually well intended, and meant to be helpful.

dp

ps. Thanks for the thread Whirly, I've really enjoyed reading it. It helps give me a taste for my forth coming thrip (which will probably also be solo).

[Whirlybird]

To be totally fair I too think that 2D made some good points. And yes, being a sensitive soul, I would prefer that he'd made them in private. But then the rest of you wouldn't have had the lessons pointed out, would you?

OTOH, I think many of my mistakes were down to inexperience of flying alone in a foreign country. A long forgotten CPL(H) course and innumerable helicopter trial lessons doesn't actually prepare you for flying solo in a C150 in France. I actually tended to plan like mad, but didn't necessarily do the things that were really needed. But on reflection, most of my stress and workload was self-inflicted. I worried...about crossing the channel, about talking to ATC, about ATC not replying, about not understanding them when they did, about all sorts of things. I kept trying to relax, but I couldn't, not at first. That lack of confidence in itself is exhausting.

Other than that, I have tended to play up the problems...you see, I was a writer long before I was a pilot, and it shows. :)

[hollywood285]

Love the story WB, not seen much of you on the flyer forum for abit, post it on there!!! And as much as I hate to say it all 2D's is trying to help out with his knowledge of flying in France, he may come across as being a poppus Tw@t but he is a nice chap!

Amen

[M20 Man]

What is a poppus Hollywood.

But I agree with your sentiment I've always found that 2D is generous with his undoubted fund of knowledge and understanding of the French (and that is difficult to achieve)

[bpilatus]

I just read this and I like the way the atmosphere is hold in the writing. Fantastic flying trip. I still dream about doing this. But why do our friends in the "other forum" say this is no good? I do not understand this. MR 2Donkey. Yes ok he has a lot of info on flying but he take away the pleaseure from a very good trip. Why he do that. Every body keep saying this word POPPUS. My dic (Please exuse me for short spelling|) does not have this word.

I think the other forum people should be a more care full about distroying confidense.

I am look forward to some more tales of the unexpected.

Thank you for sharring your storey.

[S-Works]

The word you are looking for is POMPUS. 2D's can be, but I have found him very well meaning so dont be to hard on him. Ignore the criticism and accept the advice in the spirit it is intended.

We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. I have made many in my time!

I loved your style of writing whirly, very honest and entertaining and look forward to your next installement.

Next trip when you have a space call me as being a work shy layabout with nothing to do other than sit in my Jacuzzi and drink Bolly I can go on trip at the drop of a hat!

I also have a little Cessna time.....

[bpilatus]

I say thank you for your informations. My dic does not have this word pompus. I maybe need a new dic.

Yes I make mistake as well but I try and be kind to my aviation friends. I see Mr 2Donkey does not do this.

[S-Works]

If you need a new dic then I have a friend who is an expert in erectile disfunction........:D

(not that I have needed her services myself!):O

[bpilatus]

Sorry I no understand your language. You talk about a lady. You say MR 2Donkey is a lady as well. May be that is why she has some words to say to Whirlygirl. I think 2Donkey is very big stautue in FLYER.

[Circuit Basher]

bose-x + bpilatus - actually, the word you want is POMPOUS - you should find that one in the dictionary!

And, 2D, I'm not ascribing that description to you - very difficult with this InterWeb thingy to express intonation and the softer aspects of communications. Understood exactly what you were trying to say, but it did come across a tad on the harsh side (knowing that Whirlybird herself describes herself as lacking in confidence, maybe a softer approach may have helped).

Whirly - sounds like this was a learning experience for you - as someone who's never been across the water (even to LFAT), more power to your elbow for doing it!

A PPRuNe outing over the water this summer, perhaps?? :D

[bpilatus]

Thank you. I think Bose play a trick on me. I see pompous= self importance. Yes I think that this can be a good way of explain about Mrs 2 D.

[Aussie Andy]

Let's not indulge the childness attempt at smutty humour now... it'll only encourage it!

Andy :ok:

[dublinpilot]

CB,

A cross water PPrune flyin/out sounds great! How about heading west, instead of east?

dp

[justsomepilot]

The standard of ATC English varies a great deal.

A lot of it is barely intelligible, and I am pretty sure that a good 50% of non-UK ATCOs would be completely unable to hold a normal conversation; they know just the little snippets they need to know like "report localiser established".

I have found many times it's no good asking them stuff other than the standard aviation phrases.

Consequently, the ATIS is frequently partly unintelligible and one has to call up the approach to clarify it. Often so in France.

Flying around VFR isn't easy and one has to be prepared for hiccups along the way.

[jammydonut]

Could it be that this 2 Donkey is a boastful person about his appanage and Sue is more than an acquaintance or is he jealous about the high standard of Whirly's writing and enthralling story
compared to his mind dulling simple trip to the USA.

[dublinpilot]

People, 2d's made a comment, which may have been better made in private. Whirly, partly accepted his comments, and partly explained it as:

Other than that, I have tended to play up the problems...you see, I was a writer long before I was a pilot

Lets leave it at that.

Whirly's trip report has been very interestering, and entertaining to read. Lets not ruin such a good thread, with personal remarks. What has been said, has been said. Lets leave it at that.

dp

ps. I found 2d's trans-atlantic blog most entertaining, and also educational.

[bpilatus]

Ok. I am to sensitive sometimes when I see someone having a hard time. I think 2D is now in his place. I did not see this Blog. Where can I read the account? Anyone know a web site adress

[FullyFlapped]

Does anyone know if any supplier makes any pre-recorded media which could help with the French language problems ? Sort of a "Linguaphone for pilots" ? If not, why doesn't someone make one ? Shouldn't be too hard for anyone who is fluent, or has access to a suitably-moustachioed French FISO ... how about it, 2D ?

"PPrune does Franglais" ? Sounds like a winner to me ... if it catches on, perhaps thay could even do one for use in Wales or Scotland .... I'll just get my coat .... ;)

FF :ok:

PS : well done Whirly !

[EddieHeli]

Well done Whirly,
just about to do my own first trip to France, but hopefully will have the good wife to help with nav etc.

I've got the TP articles stashed away for reference as well, very useful I think.

I also think 2D's comments were made with the best of intentions even if it didn't come across that way.
I noticed that the Notam that 2D included in his post was in French. A question therefore for anyone in the know. Are these notams available in English (Whilst in France) and if so where from if the Internet is not available?

[IO540]

INTERNET is for everything nowadays: weather, notams, even filing flight plans is a lot simpler.

Mobile internet access is highly desirable if doing a trip away from home, like this one.

[MikeGodsell]

Whirly the way you describe the feelings and emotions that we all experience when flying is just Great! Its the self discovery bit that is part of the deal, and one of the reasons for aviating.
Thanks so much.
Confession time: I flew at 1500 ft over a nuclear power station on the Breton coast while solo last year. Got away with it probably becus my French ATL has a French registration and it was lunch time. :ooh:
Really useful thread. MG

[Charlie32]

WB - Excellent story.

Had many of the same apprehensions myself. Also must confess to being defeated at some French fields re Notams, and agree what a silly machine at Deaville.

Felt as if I was reliving some of my own adventures, nice to know others have the same experience.

Very tempted to try the Limoges thing to try and improve French and understanding of customs and practice. Have to try and pursuade the wife (also PPL).

Thanks for the read hope you will post again.

[Justiciar]

Congratulations WB on an excellent piece. I hope you were not too offended by 2D's comments. They in themselves shed an interesting slant on the problems of flying in a foreign country with a different language. We can all over extend ourselves and I for one could not put hand on heart and say I would not make the same or even worse mistakes under the stresses of the journey. It takes considerable bottle to make a trip like that and it is far better to try imperfectly than not try at all - within the limits of safe flying, of course:ok:

[Cusco]

bpilatus:

you can download 2Ds blog at http:/www/polestaraviation.com/Transatlantic.pdf

Its a big file but well worth the read and having read it, it it wil become abundantly clear to you just how well qualified he is to make the comments he does.

I don't want to get embroiled in arguments but he makes some telling comments.

I am proud to count 2Ds as a personal friend who is always willing to give up whole days of his free time to help , encourage and support those of us who can never aspire to the degree of skill that he exhibits.



Cusco

[Timothy]

I'd love to know what bpilatus considers 2D's "place" is!

There are so many things to say about the services and kindnesses offered by 2D to the GA community at large and his friends in particular, that it is impossible to know where to start.

Maybe just one story. When my parents and I had our ditching in Scotland, before even the Press, my sister or wife knew where we were, 2D had found the hospital, found the ward and its extension number, and was on the phone, while I was still shaking from hypothermia, asking what time we wanted him in Dundee in his 421 the next day. That is typical of the man, and is only one example of many I could tell.

2D's knowledge of air law, procedures, airmanship and systems across continents and types is extraordinary. If he makes a comment about WB's self-inflicted workload and how it might be reduced for the sake of her own and others' safety there is only one answer...

"Thank you."

Not accusations of being a Poppus spoilsport, or whatever.

It is a long time since I last bothered to venture onto PPRuNe. I left because of an atmosphere of arrogance and p1ssing competitions, and only looked at this thread because my attention was drawn to it by a parallel thread on Flyer.

It serves neatly to remind me why I left.

[PPRuNe Radar]

2D's knowledge of air law, procedures, airmanship and systems across continents and types is extraordinary.

I concur ... he knows so much he could almost be an ATCO ;)

[bpilatus]

Ok guys I maybe say a bit to much maybe Mr 2D is a good guy. Where does he work as ATCO!?! I maybe have a problem for transit. I ask my P2 to speak on the radio! I see what Tim says about MR 2D helping in Scotland. Ok I say sorry to Mr 2D but he has to say his words in a method that does not look pompous.

[bpilatus]

Tim you make me feel very bad this morning. But I say sorry. I think you're problem in Scotland and the help you get from someone makes me feel not so good. Ok I hold my hands up and say I was wrong. Ok lets leave the conversation alone. My problem!?! I think the BLOG is very good a very profesional pilot.

[AfricanEagle]

Whirly, great write up.

Lots of useful information for the average ppl that occasionally venture further than their homefield.

The average ppl is not a professional pilot, he flies for fun, his knowledge of foreign airspace and operating procedures is sketchy, so all information is valuable, especially other peoples accounts of errors and problems.

2D is an extremly experienced and very current pilot, very close to private flying, so further comments from him can only improve furthermore the learning curve.

AE

[dublinpilot]

EddieHeli,

I was wondering the same thing myself, about finding notams in English. The UK-AIS site will give you notams for France in English, but I've noticed from comments on the flyer forum, that not all French notams are distributed internationally. Hence it would seem that you would have to use the official French source.

All is not lost though. Here (http://olivia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/index.php?lang=en&ref=sia) is the official French system, and it will produce notams in English, or French.

Now if I could only understand the French met site!

When are you planing on going & where Eddie? I am hoping to cover Northern & Western France in the last two weeks in August. If our route crossed, it might be nice to meet up for lunch.

dp

[bpilatus]

Mr African Eagle- yes flying (PPL) is just for fun but I remind you that Whirlybird is a profesional pilot. All the guys who reply are not profesional. Yes I think maybe 2D does have some good points to make. I like to read plenty of good write ups to give me knowlege. Some day I will travel to France. I will also write a report of my journey

Ciao

[WestWind1950]

hello Whirly!

sorry, just discovered your thread this morning! great going!

I flew to France some years ago with a friend in her PA28-150. We vowed afterwards.... NEVER AGAIN! We experienced much of the same problems you did.

In Germany we also have reporting points at ALL class D airspace, so that was nothing new for us. But communication with the Frenchies... forget it! Before leaving on our first trip, a Thursday, we received 20!! pages of NOTAM, and most of it even the guy at AIS couldn't figure out, so we flew to Luxemburg and Belgium instead on our way over to England and the North Weald airshow. We returned via France on the weekend and it went well, but we were VERY glad when we reached German airspace again! I don't like ATC not answering... it makes you worry whether you're doing things right or not and in flying there's enough to worry about!

I see no reason to have to learn French... we don't expect anyone to learn German when flying here! English is the language for aviation... period!

OK... sorry for my rant... but I'm with you... :ok: I'm glad it went well and yes, we all make mistakes and/or think we are well prepared then things get messed up... and you learn by it.

Westy

[Whirlybird]

Westy,
Last year I flew through France and Germany trying to get to Salzburg (there's a thread somewhere if anyone wants to resurrect it). It was our first trip in both those countries, and they couldn't have been more different. We had far, far more difficulties in France than I had this year; it was an area with loads of restricted military areas, and we didn't understand the unwritten rules about flying in France...don't worry if they don't talk to you etc. Germany was the complete opposite - everyone replied, they all spoke perfect English, they did it all by the book. Nevertheless I rather like the sort of....aerial anarchy (Omigod, I'll get flamed for that!!!) of France. Which is why I thought we could cope this year - and I did. Because despite what some have said, I know that a large proportion of my stress/fatigue was caused by my own lack of confidence, being thrown around the sky in very thermic conditions (I have a weak stomach for a pilot; one roll and I'm airsick), and the sheer physical workload - plan routes, sort out aircraft, fly and do nav, arrive, tie down aircraft, sort out where to stay etc etc, all in a foreign language and mainly new to me. With two it's fun, with one I find it...exhausting; that's all really.

IO540,
I agree; before I next go to France, I need to sort out mobile internet access. Anyone any suggestions for a relatively inexpensive LIGHTWEIGHT way of doing this? Pm me if you have.

One more comment. Some people say flying in France is easy. It is...when you're experienced at it. Like flying itself. It's not hard, is it...but it was when you were learning. Like driving a car. Better parallel, perhaps, like driving on the "wrong" side of the road on the continent for the first time. I reckon flying an R22 is pretty easy...but most of you wouldn't. :eek: Doing anything new is difficult, and it becomes easier with knowledge and practice. Pretty obvious really.

[MikeJeff]

With all this "Flying here there and everywhere is great because everyone speaks perfect English" it's probably worth point out that French is a recognised "ICAO language" of Air Traffic control as is Russian and another one (Chinese or Spansh can't remember). It has inherant problems, but it is their right to speak France on the RTF!

Personally, I've flown to France many times, I've never had a problem. I've landed at unmanned airfields, "Information" airfields like Dieppe and St Brieuc and fully controlled airfields like Pontoise, Le2K etc. The only problem I've ever had in France is dodging the G reg around Le2k!!

[dublinpilot]

Whirly,

I note from your report, that you managed to get fuel in Tours airport.

I took a look at the AIP entry, and it says "TOTAL card or payment assured by SEMAVAL".

I don't have a Total card, and understand they are very difficult to get. Do you know what SEMAVAL is, and probably more importantly, how did you pay for your fuel? Will they accept cash?

Thanks,
dp

[2Donkeys]

SEMAVAL is the airport operator and they accept fuel paid for by any of the usual credit cards.

2D

[dublinpilot]

Thank you 2d's.

Much appreciated.

:ok:

dp