The "Westcott Snatch"?

[Ray Ban]

Can someone please elaborate for me? My basic understanding is it's an old non-standard arrival from the west into LHR?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Simple - a Heathrow inbound routing to BNN is given a heading before BNN to put it directly onto a base leg for either of the 09 runways. I don't think it's"old" as it is still currently employed.

[147break]

Does this have anything to do with the village of Westcott where I currently reside with my G/F?
At least I'll have a new nickname for her!!!

[Human Factor]

There's a NDB (non-directional beacon) on the arrival route just before Bovingdon at the old airfield at Westcott, hence the "Westcott Snatch". Don't be rude....;)

[Kestrel_909]

This came up not so long ago,
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=164502&perpage=15&highlight=Westcott%20Snatch&pagenumber=2

Scroll down

[Fly3]

The Westcott Snatch was frequently used to expedite arrive into NHT arriving from the north when I was operating out of there. It had the advantage of getting us out of the way of the inbound traffic to LHR.

[Hobo]

Similarly:

the "Lambourne Pluck" - heading 240 at high speed to intercept a westerly localiser.

also the "Biggin Take" - 320 from Biggin to land westerly.

Neither of these expressions was heard as often as the "Westcott Snatch" which as far as I am aware came in to use when the Trident started pounding the Shuttle routes to GLA,MCR,EDI & BFS.

Then there was the "Bigolow" (sp?), an early left turn from the Berlin Centre Corridor en route to Helighen when heading South to FRA, STR, MUC staying in Western Airspace. Something like a heading of 240 about 10 nm short of Helighen towards an NDB to intercept the N/S airway. I was told it was named after a PanAm Captain who first asked for it.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

We often used the term "snatch" for lots of other situations, but I've never heard "Lambourne Pluck" or "Biggin Take", which must have come into use since I retired. As Fly3 noted, the procedure is used for Northolt traffic too - probably more so than for LHR.

The base leg turns before BNN were in use long before Westcott was ever thought of - we used to snatch them off Beacon Hill, rememember that? A similar procedure is employed from the south when a/c are turned north from the MID area, or sometimes London Control put them on a heading for WOD and Heathrow pops them into the approach sequence.

It's terribly clever stuff and all done by a suitable sytem of levers and mirrors.

[ETOPS]

Many years ago I was P2 on Shuttle back up BAC 1-11's. The "Westcott snatch" was a regular feature but used to have me in fits of giggles when flying with a particular Captain.

His name was Westcott - no kidding :O

[PAXboy]

H.Dir. "It's terribly clever stuff and all done by a suitable sytem of levers and mirrors."

Actually, since your retirement, you will find that the mirrors have been replaced by High Definition TV cameras and monitors, or will be when the International Standards Committee have agreed the standards.

The levers have been replaced by servo controlled actuators which are much more reliable. Unfortunately, the software that actuates the actuators is not ... :\

The management said that it was a purely temporary move to reinstate the levers and mirrors. The Projected Project Plan plans the new system to be ready for service at the same time as the new European Constitution.

It is true that The Projected Project Plan contains a lot of Ps. :E

--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Max Angle]

A WCO snatch is always very welcome when coming from the North onto 09L as is getting picked off for a straight in from LAM or BIG. None of them seem quite as sporty as they used to be I guess due to the length of final now required to keep the neighbours happy.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Actually, since your retirement, you will find that the mirrors have been replaced by High Definition TV cameras and monitors..>>

So they've replaced the stack TVs at last, eh?

Max Angle.. They were the good old days: "Turn right 190, no speed control!"... Then "Left on 150 and report if you get the runway in sight"..

[PAXboy]

<<So they've replaced the stack TVs at last, eh?>> I understand that Dixon's did a very good job at replacing them.

And replacing those under warranty and then when the third set also failed ... ;)

[mcdhu]

Loved the 'MR' link - thank you Lhr Atc. Many happy memories of Wco 'snatches' into Nht under the 'stack' and still enjoy the odd Mid snatch from the Willo 3C onto 08R @ Lgw. A big thanks to all at WD and Swanwick - best in the world.

Cheers,
mcdhu

[Midland 331]

Folks,

"The Westcott Snatch". I once heard this mentioned by a BA chappie on a late-night inbound. Again, I'm guessing on inbounds to EGLL from the north effectively turning onto a long base leg of 09L/R from Westcott, rather than having to route via BNN, hence "cutting the corner".

Hopefully I'm safe here. Mods - please don't move me to the ATC forum. I'm still in therapy from the last drubbing.

r
PS - just seen the archive on "The Westcott Snatch". Do I win a prize?

[pulse1]

In the good old days, before 9/11, I was enjoying a jump seat ride in a BA 757 and captain was telling the FO about the Westcott Snatch just as we were descending past Bovingdon. He was saying that, in a 747, it was great fun and that you had to use a bit of idle reverse on two engines to avoid getting too fast..

I've since been told that that is impossible so it might have been a bit of B/S.

[Rainboe]

pulse, it was indeed possible to do a snatch in a 747, but you had to be quick. You would be turning onto base at an altitude of 7000' or above. It required rapid extension of flap and a short wait to assess when to raise speedbrake or drop the gear, and to get down quickly. One had to judge before then the likelihood of it being permitted and whether the cabin preparations would be complete- it would only ever be offered at very quiet times, but just sometimes you detected there may be a possibility and I asked several times and occasionally got it.
You cannot use reverse in the air on a 747. It's a complicated, difficult system that gives trouble on the ground, operating it in the air is a real no no.

[stanley]

was never a probleme on the trident ,idle reverse and and it just fell out of the sky.

[TheGorrilla]

Never mind that. Had a snatch from "Hazel" the other night. Something BOAC is probably unfamiliar with(?). Into LHR too (instead of...). Most unusual!!

:uhoh: :\

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yep - snatches from the south were as common as those from the north. Often, TMA would simply put traffic from the south on a direct heading for WOD..... then leave the transfer to London Approach late = lots of hands flying around over Blackbushe!

Glad to know tap-dancing went on at the Centre - lots of it in Approach too! And a lot of attempted whistling for similar reasons....

[TheGorrilla]

As you can no doubt gather that last post from HEATHROW DIRECTOR makes no sense. It would do if my post before it had not been deleted. re: a "snatch" from Hazel.... Yes that waypoint down by the south coast. :hmm: Seems quite rare, however I had one last week into LHR. Thankyou BOAC.

About 5 miles west of Hazel (FL130) we were given a heading to intercept the loc 09L LHR. Decent to FL80, then FL60 and then 4000' at appropriate points to keep us in CAS. Shaved a shed load of time off the flight, sadly we still had to taxi to T4, waited ages to cross 09R and the gain was lost (well actually we still arrived on time, but...?).

Makes the approach more enjoyable/entertaining as it's a slightly non standard event requiring thought in a different part of the box. Worked out well, good approach and a good landing. Tea and medals all round.:)

[BOAC]

Mr Gorrilla - my apologies - and your post reinstated for the reasons in the PM.

[TheGorrilla]

No probs. Far too easy to missuse certain aeronautical terms!!:mad: Possibly not the most pc post on this site :\ .....

[arem]

<<His name was Westcott - no kidding >>

Must have been young Tim!!!

AS to doing the 'snatch' I never had a problem with the 74 - it was just a matter of anticipation, bring the speed back towards 220kts and when cleared down put the gear out - came down like a brick sh*thouse! - the only problem I had was with a strong SE'ly- came down so quick had to put the gear back up 'cos of the distance still to run!!

Great fun at the end of a long night

[Trident man]

Hi all this little gem is from my Trident Forum ex Trident1,2 & 3 pilot::)

Shuttle arrivals into Heathrow with easterly ops were routed to Westcott then onto Garston (now renamed Bovingdon) then a westerly radar heading towards Marlow, left turn to Maidenhead and then the ILS 10L.

If Heathrow was "quiet" there was always the chance of the infamous "Westcott Snatch", basically 180 degree heading from Westcott direct to Maidenhead with the speed kept up, reducing the track distance by about twenty miles. If the offer of the snatch was made overhead Westcott then speedbrake and/or reverse idle might be needed to get the height off.


On the approach in question we were flying with one of our very senior management Captains who obviously did very little flying and very very little Shuttle. The Captain had done the sector to Manchester with myself as P2 and it was the other copilots sector back to Heathrow.

The standard operation had the Captain handling the autopilot and the copilot doing the radio. It was relatively quiet so, about ten miles short of Westcott the copilot enquired of Air Traffic.. "What's the chance of a Westcott Snatch".. "Looking good " was the reply. The management type who had obviously not heard of the "Snatch" seemed confused. He obviously thought about it and after a short period turned to the copilot and asked "what heading do you think we will get?"... In a flash the copilot enquired of Air Traffic... "and the Snatch heading?" Air Traffic responded "You should get the standard heading".

It was by now getting rather too much for the Captain. His next question.. "And the speed?".. "I'll check with ATC"... "And the speed?"...Air Traffic were now enjoying the whole episode "Standard Snatch speed"

The Captain not having a clue what to expect then played his master card. He turned to the copilot and stated "I haven't done a Snatch in a while, perhaps you could demonstrate one for me" at which point he leaned down and moved the autopilot compass switch from Port to Starboard!

Reverse idle, full airbrake by the copilot and the situation was recovered.

Throughout the episode I just sat quietly as P3 and smiled.