Advice on Flying in Germany & France

[Mak]

I'm planning a trip through Germany and France in a few weeks time. Would greatly appreciate advice on what to watch out for, good airfields to visit, worthwhile aerial sightseeing, nice places to unwind for a couple of days and anything else you feel is useful. Will be my first adventure beyond LeTouquet so I'm very much looking forward to it.

Thanks

Mak

[2Donkeys]

Unless you narrow the question down a bit, it is difficult to know what to tell you.

Why don't you start by telling people where you are planning on flying to.

2D

[Flyer Flier]

MAK
If you have a few weeks before you go, you still have time to order a copy of the Flieger Taschenkalender from any German flying shop on the web for 18 euros. This compact handy little blue book, is a real help to touring Germany. It is a mini-AIP with detailed airspace maps and all the necessary details and contact numbers for German airfields. The listings and format mean that you do not need to speak German to get the info from it. This is a Top Tip Guide for touring Germany.

My own personal recommendations for lovely German airfields with nice restaurants and beautiful scenic surroundings would be:

Dahlemer Binz (http://www.dahlemer-binz.de/) up in the lovely Eifel region

Altena (EDKD) which is perched 1500 feet up in the hills to the east of Dusseldorf.

Bergneustadt auf dem Dumpel (EDKF) which is another picturesque field to the North East of Cologne.

Koblenz (EDRK) for fantastic views overlooking the Mosel river.

Vilshofen (EDMV)
http://www.edmv.de/
much further South on a bend in the Danube river with the runway almost on the river bank!

There are so many more, but hope this sets you off, you can check out all the airfield plates and info on This link (http://edkd.airports.de/airport.php?ICAO=EDKD) which is very useful.
Have Fun!
Cheers
FF

[Radar]

MAK,

Just a small correction to what FF has posted. Dahlemer Binz used to be a great favourite of mine. Just a 30 min hop over great scenery to a great location and a cosy spot for lunch. Still has the great scenery but unfortunately the restaurant is closed for the moment. (New owners haven't figured out what exactly they're doing yet.)

Koblenz certainly rates highly .. especially if you like Greek food.

[TangoZulu]

I went to Germany in 2003 - great trip - my first excursion beyond Le2K.

Northern France is interesting during the week - I found the SIA guide on VFR really useful - expecially with details on all the restricted areas.

Germany was fine - excellent English on the radio and a good service from Frankfurt Info - Squawk and all above about 3000'

Overall I found it quite easy - the Germans were more willing to talk to me than the French (Paris Info was not really very helpful but it was not actually a problem).

Rgds

TZ

[gregbell]

MAK

In Germany I recommend the following:

Speyer EDRY (see http://www.evsf2.science.ru.nl/Janh/A%20weekend%20trip%20to%20Speyer.pdf )

Schwabisch Hall EDTY

Straubing EDMS

Egelsbach EDFE

You can usually get further info by doing a Google search. Many of these airfields have their own sites with an option to view them in English!


Have a good trip!

.... and another thought for you MAK -

It\'s worth buying the Jeppesen Bottlang VFR \'trip kits\' for France and Germany. These are \'one off\' country manuals but without a monthly update service.

In the front sections (Met, Coms, Gen, Regs, Diverse, and Germany etc) loads of invaluable information....

* contact details
* whole country maps with airfields
* Flight Information Service frequencies
* Customs airports
* local oddities that you must be aware of!

definitely worth getting hold of.

..... and avoid flying through Belgium - they hate GA and will have you flying at 500\' BMSL (below sea level) if they had their way.

The French and Germans are great and you can do virtually anything if you keep in touch with a Flight Info Service. Cut down through the eastern border of France (past Belgium and Luxembourg) before cutting into Germany somewhere near Thionville LFGV. You can then get straight to Speyer as your first stop.

Do make sure you avoid the ZITS in France (protection zones around the various nuclear power stations). Apparently the fines are in the order of 50,000 Euros! Doing this is one of the few trangressions that will get our French friends really upset

[distaff_beancounter]

Do make sure you avoid the ZITS in France (protection zones around the various nuclear power stations). Apparently the fines are in the order of 50,000 Euros! Doing this is one of the few trangressions that will get our French friends really upset
B****r the fines!

What about the SAM missiles that the French have set up around all their nuclear installations to stop incursions by aircraft!

[Radar]

MAK,

Another correction. I'm sure gregbell's info on German airports is spot on and the advice on th Jepp trip kit is a sound one. But his comments on Belgium are so far off the mark it's not funny! The comments are obviously based on personal experience but, as a blanket statement, they certainly don't reflect my experiences of a decade using Belgocontrol's services. I fly through Belgian airspace practically every time I take to the air. I've never had a problem with access to airspace. You have to steer clear of the Brussels CTR but that's about it. I have not yet been denied a clearance into Brussels Class B VFR or had a routing request denied by the guys at Liege, Antwerp, Ostend, Charleroi or Beauvechain. Just last week, transit from CMB to Liege at FL55 VFR with Brussels, Charleroi and Liege.


If you do find yourself transiting via Belgium, I'd suggest Spa (EBSP) as a stopdown. Friendly folks, great location in the Ardennes and (relatively) cheap fuel.

Have a great trip!

[Aim Far]

Sorry Radar, but I'm with gregbell on Belgium. I've been 6 times this year routing from Koksijde towards Luxembourg, requesting a transit through Brussels Class B each time and I have had the grand total of 1 transit and that was only because I complained that their instructions would have me descending into the low level haze/fog. I'd go further and add that they have a tendency to "clear" you through uncontrolled airspace and the service from Brussels Info ranges from very good to downright dangerous. Charleroi and Ostend on thee other hand are very helpful.

[Radar]

I dunno lads, it must be the luck of the Irish or something, but in the last two years I've had Maastricht - Popham return, Maastricht - Duxford return, Maastricht - Charleroi return (3 times) and two trips out of France inbound Maastricht all accomodated by Brussels in their Class B. We'll have to agree to differ.

[Mak]

Thanks all for the advice. I'm getting the trip kits, although I'm still choosing between the bootlang and pooleys ones (got some feedback about the bootlang often being out of date so may go for Pooleys).

2Donkey: the trip is free form and will be planning from one day to the next. Only constraints are that I'm restricted to 7 days (so will expect to go for 6 with one day wx contingency) and that I'd like to visit a friend near Koln.

Mak

[Flyer Flier]

Just on the northern outskirts of Koln is the airfield of Leverkusen (EDKL). It is 700m grass and very handy to get to the centre of the city. Good views of the city on approach as well. if I remember correctly .
Guten Flug!
FF

[Whirlybird]

We landed in Biberach last year...can't remember the ICAO code, but it's a small airfield to the south of Stuttgart. We were heading for a conference in Salzburg, but got stuck due to bad weather, and eventually had to hire a car. The airfield manager was WONDERFUL! He found us a hotel initially, drove us out there, checked weather and gave us advice...he's been flying for years and years, so his advice was worth having. He helped us hire a car, and promised to look after the aircraft till our return. It's a friendly little airfield, and gets 110% from me, at least. :ok:

The town is a nice place to stay too, small and pretty and quite a lot to see.

[atb1943]

Mak,

I wonder where that feedback about Bottlang came from....? With a monthly amendment service, and a weekly update of their Special Notes on the website, they can hardly do more to stay current. But it's a big job, and with charts that not only give you the airfield diagram but also the local topo with circuit patterns it requires quite a large team.

To get the free special notes (and, if you'd like them, updates to their VFR GPS charts too) simply drop them an email to [email protected].

If you are in the UK you can now order Jepp products toll-free from 0800 085 5377.

What's more, if you bought the 2005 edition of charts EG-LV, LF-2 or LF-3 you are entitled to receive the amended 2nd edition which corrected airspace info in the Paris area. They may want you to send in the front cover of the old ones, maybe not.

And if you have a low value invoice to pay, you can always call them with credit card details.

Hope this helps.

cheers

atb :ok:

[Bluebeard777]

There is an error on the Jeppesen LF 2005 VFR charts in the Paris area??

Tell me more, this is serious!

[Mak]

Thanks ro all for the tips. In the end I bought a selection of VFR+GPS charts and trip kits for Germany and France.

So far my observation on the trip kits is that they are very detailed, the only criticism being the lack of data on fees and the sheer weight. A rought idea, even if out-of-date, of whether landing will cost me 10 or 100 EUR would be useful, and I'd be happy to loose the area charts in favour of a drop in weight - nevertheless I do like to format of the area charts.

Unfortunately weather has so delayed my plans and had to stay on the ground today. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.

Thanks again.
Mak

[atb1943]

Mak

Jepps have always shied away from including anything involving prices, or types of info likely to change without notice and not get oficially published for yonks. Already strapped covering the navigational side of things (restaurant menus coming up next..;) )

Bluebeard777

Sorry, should have replied sooner. It had to do with airspace levels in the Paris area, thought a reissue better than a note in the pilots notes. Was not thought 'serious' but imporrtant enough.

brgds

atb

[172driver]

MAK

This may come a bit late for you, but a great place to land in Germany is Siegerland, EDGS http://www.siegerland-airport.de/index_e.htm This sits off the south-eastern tip of the Dusseldorf control zone.

Friendly, efficient - the fuel guys have been made deputy sheriffs and check your passports if you're coming from the UK! Btw, if this is what you do, give them a call on the phone first. Restaurant serves (or at least did - haven't been in a while) fab Argentinian steaks and the tower is extremely helpful with wx and route planning. Highly recommended.

Further along, Vilshofen EDMV is a nice place to visit, right on the banks of the Danube. Beware their operating hours, though! They close at 1900L even in summer. Nearly had to leave my Weisswurst on the plate there recently ;-)

There is also a bit of a German specialty other than sausages when it comes to squawk codes: if you have not been assigned a discreet squawk, you select 0021 for VFR below 5000 ft and 0022 above 5000 ft. Also, coming from Belgium or France you will be talking to Langen Info, they are the - very helpful - controlling agency covering most of the western portion of the country.

Have a great trip!