TRA / Restrictions blatantly ignored

[tonyhalsall]

I took my kiddies to a Kite Festival on Saturday. I knew it was on because for some weeks previously the Clubhouse at Barton had a notice up advising of an exclusion zone around the site.

I was only there from about 1.30pm to 4pm and in that time the site was overflown by a Cessna (172?) tracking in the direction of Blackpool / Woodvale and a Tomahawk tracking North. Finally a R44 buzzed the site causing the commentator to explain to the crowd about their frustrations with light aircraft and how they should know better etc etc. He also told the crowd that they had a good pair of binoculars and would be reporting the offending a/c to the CAA.

From my observations it seemed like the Tomahawk and R44 veered away at the last moment, but the Cessna blundered straight through.

It just makes me wonder that if such a well publicised local event can be infringed three times in three hours is it any wonder the Red Arrows and other Air Shows get frequently infringed.

Tony

[Mike Cross]

Question:-

Was it subject to a TRA or a Nav Warning?

Reds and airshows tend to have a TRA, which it is illegal to penetrate.

Kite flying, para dropping, flypasts etc tend to be Nav Warnings, which are not prohibitions.

However if the event has been NOTAM'd and is readily avoidable a failure to route round it shows a lack of airmanship and a lack of consideration for other airspace users (IMHO).

Mike

[Genghis the Engineer]

How high was the NOTAMed avoid to? Looking at the NOTAM area brief, it was presumably one of these:-


NAVW: FROM 05/04/01 11:00 TO 05/06/30 16:30 H0610/05
D)1100-1630
E)AUS 05-04-0095/672/AS5
KITE FLYING 1NM RADIUS 5416N 00125W (KIRBY WISKE, NEAR THIRSK,
NORTH YORKSHIRE). CONTACT FOR FLYING TIMES, TEL 01845 587522.
F)SFC G)500FT AGL


NAVW: FROM 05/03/29 12:45 TO 05/06/29 21:00 H0504/05
D)1245-SS PLUS30
E) AUS 05-03-0227/562/AS5
KITE FLYING 1NM RADIUS 5234N 00232W MUCKLEY NEAR BRIDGNORTH
SHROPSHIRE
CONTACT FOR FLYING TIMES, TEL 01746 714062 / 07860 832349.
F)SFC G)1000FT AGL

NAVW: FROM 05/05/14 04:00 TO 05/08/14 20:15 H1212/05
D)HJ
E) AUS 05-05-0214/1337/AS5
KITE FLYING 2NM RADIUS 5204N 00403W (NEAR LAMPETER, CARMARTHENSHIRE).
CONTACT FOR FLYING TIMES TEL 01570 422696.
F)SFC G)500FT AGL

NAVW: FROM 05/05/14 04:00 TO 05/08/14 20:15 H1213/05
D)HJ
E)AUS 05-05-0214/1338/AS5
KITE FLYING 2NM RADIUS 5158N 00357W (NEAR TALLEY, CARMARTHENSHIRE).
CONTACT FOR FLYING TIMES TEL 01570 422696.
F)SFC G)500FT AGL




If the commentator needed a good pair of binos to read the reg on a 172 I'd have thought he was well over 1000ft. If the kite flying is within 500ft, and presumably there's a body at the end of the bit of string, rule 5 overrides anyhow.

Plus none of those are "no-fly", they are all navigation warnings only. Possibly the "no fly" was just something stated (quite reasonably to be fair) by Barton for it's local pilots?

I've seen this at rocket launchings by the way, that event organisers think that a NOTAM gives them exclusive use of the airspace - it doesn't usually, just publishes a warning. That said I agree with Mike, let common sense prevail - but if kite flying is notamed to 500ft and somebody overflies at 1500ft, this should hardly consitute a breach of anything, including common sense.

G

[tonyhalsall]

To be honest Mike, I did not pay a great deal of attention - I was not planning to fly that day so I did not digest the notice which was pinned very prominently on the board.
I simply recall a height of 2000' above the Beacon being mentioned, but I can't recall the radius or any other details.
It just concerned me that the commentator was so gleeful in his comments about reporting light aircraft to the CAA, especially when, from my observation two of the aircraft veered off before passing overhead.
As you quite rightly say though, it is/was bad airmanship to get so close to a publicised event no matter how the notification was made.

Genghis,

It was none of those.

It was a place called \'Ashurst Beacon.\'

This has raised my interest now and I would be interested to see just what the reality was as opposed to what the Kite Flying commentator said.

Location - Ashurst Beacon (close - NNW 2 miles - to M6/M58 VRP)
Date - 04/06

How can I find this information now?

[Squadgy]

Tony

Whilst no where around this specific area - I was flying on the opposite side of the M6 on Saturday towards Chorley/ Preston. I reviewed all the NOTAMs prior to the flight and there was definately no TRA established around a kite flying event.

I am surprised that you say there was a notice in the Clubhouse at Barton - any Nav Warnings are usually displayed on the briefing board in the tower reception rather than in the Clubhouse itself :confused:

As others have mentioned a Nav Warning does not offer any protection to these type of events and really just serve as a warning to avoid the area.

[tonyhalsall]

As you walk into the Clubhouse through the main door on the left in the recess. On the wall facing you - it was there two weeks ago because that is where I clocked it and noted to take my kids along.

[PPRuNe Radar]

If it turns out the event wasn't NOTAM'ed, who wants to report the organiser/commentator to the CAA for poor 'airmanship' ?? :p

[tonyhalsall]

I would certainly want to say something to him because as a recreational pilot I felt both embarrassed and annoyed at his little tirade. If it turns out to be completely unjustified then he deserves an earful for bad mouthing GA to a large group of the general public.

Notwithstanding that - I certainly read a warning two weeks previously at Barton, regrettably I did not pay sufficient attention as to exactly what it was though I wish now that I had.

[PPRuNe Radar]

As Genghis said, there is nothing in the London FIR Area Brief for Saturday (or Sunday) for that location, nor does a narrow route brief in the vicinity flag up anything.

Whilst not 100% guaranteed, it would seem the only notification was a local one in the clubhouse which is hardly satisfactory.

Perhaps one of the ATCOs based at Manchester might know if their unit had received any official AIS notification as it would be part of their 'Taking Over Watch' brief on the day if they had.

[Squadgy]

To be honest it sounds as if this 'Clubhouse Notice' was something stuck up by a member perhaps thinking it may have been helpful (The noticeboard you descibe isn't usually used for this kind of operational stuff), Whilst it may have caught some people's eyes I didn't see it. Was there any info on it as to who had issued it?

I'd usually look for Nav Warnings in NOTAMs on the 'net/ Flight Planning board in the tower reception and perhaps also mentioned on the Barton ATIS.

Neither Barton Info or Blackpool Appr were offering any warnings on this either.

As an aside, the location of this event is a couple of miles North of the North end of the Manchester LLR, immediately adjacent to the M6 line feature - if I was looking to fly a kite around at 2000 ft I could think of safer places ;)

[tonyhalsall]

Squadgy - I just rang my friend who was also there on Saturday just to be sure that I was not wrong and he also confirmed that the public announcer stated (roughly from memory, but in essence correct):

'We get quite annoyed with this ladies & gentlemen and these Pilots should know better, there is a no fly zone here up to 2000' and we will be reporting these Pilots to the CAA. We have good binoculars to get their reg.'

Now I remember seeing the notice at Barton but because I was not flying on that day I didn't look any further into it. Lets just say it was a friendly 'note' from a well meaning Club Member - how can a public announcer come out with something like that to literally hundreds of people?? It must be wrong, surely?

[bookworm]

(H1457/05 NOTAMN
Q)EGTT/QWCLW/IV/M/W/000/020/5333N00245W002
A)EGTT B)0506040845 C)0506052115
D)0845-2115
E) AUS 05-06-0122/1594/AS5
KITE FLYING 2NM RADIUS 5333N 00245W (UP HOLLAND, NEAR SKELMERSDALE,
LANCS). ON-SITE CONTACT 01695 622794.
F)SFC G)2000FT AGL)

I think the PA announcer should be educated in the difference between a navigational warning to aircraft and a "no-fly zone" though.

[Fuji Abound]

I think kite flying above 60 metres without the consent of the CAA would be an infringement of the ANO.

We should be equally concerned about pilots disregarding a nav warning as organisers disregarding the ANO.

I suppose if you feel sufficiently strongly and the organiser did not have the consent of the CAA, the CAA would want to investigate further if you brought the matter to their attention.

Not being a kite flyer, at a properly organised event what height are kites flown too and how do you judge their height?

There is I think also a restriction within an ATZ of 30 metres. I often wonder whether kite board surfers at places where the approach is over the sea are in fact infringing the ANO. I have heard it said by controllers at Shoreham that there have been one or two close shaves with people coming in over the sea in poor viz on the approach to 02!

PS I never knew the following from the ANO

"A kite while flying by day at a height exceeding 60 metres above the surface
shall have attached to it's mooring cable at intervals of not more than 200 metres measured from the lowest part of the kite, tubular streamers not less than 40 centimetres in diameter and 2 metres in length, and marked with alternate bands of red and white 50 centimetres wide, or at intervals of not more than 100 metres measured from the lowest part of the kite, streamers not less than 80 centimetres long and 30 centimetres wide at their widest point and marked with alternate bands of red and white 10 centimetres wide. "