They believe their own propaganda!

[Capt Claret]

The scene:Your's truly and co-captain, in full airline regailia, present to the security screening point at a centrally located regional aerodrome, remove a plethora of calculators, keys, phones, pens, glasses, laptops, wallets (bloody magnetic strips on cards :{ ), ASIC.... basically anything that might beep, to pass through the x-ray & metal detectors. Pass through said detectors and mutter to one another about the absurdity of all this while we replace the aforementioned plethora.

Two APS blokes then walk through screening, armed with deadly weapons which set the metal detector off yet not only are they not challenged, they have a friendly chat en-route.

Co-captain mentions, not quite under his breath, "great that they can walk through unchallenged and we have to go through this".

A security person hearing this volunteers the following gem. "oh but they're not getting on the aircraft" as an excuse as to why APS don't need to jump through the hoops that air crew do.

My measured response is "We're the only industry workers with a vested interest in the aircraft landing safely yet we're the only ones screened!" :mad:

Ms Security Screener then goes onto say, "we're just helping you get to your destination safely". To which I replied, "codswallop".

A different Ms Security Screener then tells me that they are keeping us safe by screening crew because two of the September 11 pilots were pilots!

I did point out that I don't need to smuggle weapons on board, if I want to kill people, I'll just do it.

FFFFAAAAAAAAAAARRRK, to quote Graham.

rant over

Now I'll try and do what a colleague suggets, and go to the beach

[18-Wheeler]

Give them a banana or peanuts and move along.

[morning mungrel]

Of course they believe their own propaganda captn!!! Do you think they were employed for their good looks, intelligent and independent thought abilities?????:p

[Howard Hughes]

Well I don't believe it's entirely their fault!

They are only enforcing the edicts which have been bestowed upon them from above. We as pilot's do this every single day, we often comply with procedures that have been provided from above, that may or may not increase safety.

Having said all that, I think we could improve safety and save the government hundreds of millions of dollars....SCRAP DOTARS!!

SCREENING OF PILOTS IS RIDICULOUS, as the good Captain said if we wanted to kill people we have plenty of opportunities everyday single bloody day.

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

PS: It's almost become a sport now, seeing how much or little you can get through security with.....;)

[Uncommon Sense]

An outlet for frustrations?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177458

[pullock]

It's true - they do believe their own BS.

After September the 11Th (NOT 911), our government began a war against our own people to gain control of our lives with relentless fervor. It was theirs to convince us that we need protection from ourselves, and so they did.

It's amazing how many people have relinquished their civil rights to protect themselves from an enemy that doesn’t actually exist.

The nanny state has taken over, and won. All because people are too laid back to question the authority that has been exerted on us since 11/9 that they tell us is for our own good.

It's time to get a bit critical about what THEY think is good for us, because if we don't then it will only get worse.

How can it get worse? - Picture this - In the not so distant future, the identity card/personal tracker that will be embedded under your shin will not be mandatory - just a requirement if you want to fly in an aeroplane, or drive a car, or use a credit card.

No such technology you say? - Hell my cat has one in his neck already!!

[RENURPP]

What was it the customs report said.
10% of them have serious criminal convictions another 10% just convictions.

I believe the fox is running the hen house.

[Capt EFIS]

Yeah, a bit of a joke.

It seems that not only are the APS blokes wanting regional crew to submit to a security screening prior to your first flight of the day, but if you return from a non-secured airport then you should also be screened prior to operating any additional flights.

On some days that could be up to 3 security screenings per shift!!

From what I can gather, under ATSR 2005 flight crew can still access airside without being screened.....

Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005....

4.09 Circumstances in which persons may enter sterile area without being screened
(1) This regulation is made for subparagraph 44 (2) (d) (ii) of the Act.
(2) A person must be cleared before entering a sterile area unless:
(a) he or she has entered the sterile area from the airside after disembarking from a screened air service; or
(b) he or she is taken to be cleared under regulation 4.10 or 4.11.

4.11 Persons taken to be cleared to enter sterile area other than through a screening point
(1) For paragraph 41 (2) (c) of the Act, a person in a class mentioned in subregulation (2) may enter a sterile area other than through a screening point if he or she:
(a) is authorised to do so and properly displays a valid ASIC; or
(b) is authorised to do so, properly displays a valid VIC and is supervised by somebody who is taken to be cleared to enter the sterile area other than through a screening point and properly displays a valid ASIC.
(2) The classes of person are the following:
(a) aviation security inspectors;
(b) officers of the Australian Customs Service;
(c) screening officers;
(d) employees of the operator of the airport in which the sterile area is located;
(e) employees of the operator of a screened air service aircraft;
(f) contractors, and employees of contractors, to the operator of the airport in which the sterile area is located who is engaged in the loading of cargo, stores or checked baggage, or the boarding of passengers, onto a cleared aircraft that is operating a screened air service, or who is otherwise authorised for access to the aircraft;
(g) contractors, and employees of contractors, to the operator of a screened air service aircraft who is engaged in the loading of cargo, stores or checked baggage, or the boarding of passengers, onto a cleared aircraft that is operating a screened air service, or who is otherwise authorised for access to the aircraft.


Cheers,

Capt EFIS.

[rammel]

Yes it is true that on Sep 11 the hijackers were pilots, but they were travelling as pax not operating as crew.

[rescue 1]

Slightly off topic but on the same theme...why is it that Australians entering into the USA have to have their photo's and finger prints taken on entering the US? This is treating us as criminals and places our data on criminal databases for checking everytime there is a crime in the US. The Americans themselves would refuse to do this - it would be a clear violation of their civil liberties yet its OK for everyone else?

Furthermore, we helped in the war as did the Poms's. The Pom's are exempt, so why aren't we?

[Ron & Edna Johns]

They were not pilots. They were terrorists who had learned some basic flying skills. There is a world of difference. Every professional pilot should be offended by any suggestion that these ..... people..... were pilots.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Here's one to mull over...several days ago while rumaging through my nav bag (in the cockpit) in the middle east I found a metal cutlery set knife. It had been there for weeks as I did remember a piece of cutlery sliding off my tray and not being able to find it after...in the end assuming it must have not actually fallen off my tray...it had.

So I have been through security screening twice in Sydney, twice in Dubai, actually 4 times minimum as they screen you with xray machines twice at Dubai-once before the checkin area and again at customs, and once in London just in the last few weeks.

Still compared to the fire axe, truncheon and fire extinguisher that live on the flight deck a metal dinner knife is hardly the weapon of choice:hmm:

Not to mention the cockpit security door...if I really wanted to be a nasty pasty I could just wait 'till my mate goes to the crapper and deny him re-entry.

Its like pollitical correctness....security screening of aircrew has got way out of control:mad:

[orangepeel]

How often do you see other Security "Officers" walk thru screening and set the bloody machine off and they just keep on walking or their fellow "officers" have a laugh about it and wave them thru.

Who are these people ? I mean, they are now telling me that they want to see my deodorant can - to make sure it has a lid on it - If it does not, they take it away from me .... Are they Freight Forwarders as well ??

Also - how often to you go to different airports, and the metel detectors are so varied ... i mean, at one regional airport, they have the machine wound up so sensitive that even my RM boots set it off and you nearly have to walk thru in your jocks, however at a major airport, you can walk thru with your boots, watch and every attached - and no 'beeps'.... or even better, there are 2 or 3 detectors at the same airport.... you soon get to figure out which detector/s are wound up and the ones that are not...... there are certain ones that i walk thru as i dont want to set it off, as i know if i walk thru the other detectors... well ... "get your gear off ... and spread 'em !!!"


I mean, they even wanted to pull me up on thinking that my jepps had a 'conceiled' weapon in it ... geez - its the bloody metal tag that keeps the binders open ... nice one !! Apparently - this has happened quite a few times at same airport, same person... mmm :confused: :confused: :confused:

They are having their little ego boosts with their job! :8

Good on ya !!! :ok: :ok:

PS: Next time you put your bag thru screening, have a look at how many people dont know what they are looking at or even better, are not even looking at the screen as your bag passes thru.




R I G H T !!! :ok: :yuk: :}

[Howard Hughes]

"get your gear off ... and spread 'em !!!"

What?

Without so much as a "Can I buy you a drink Mr Peel"?

Thats outrageous!!;)

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[ausdoc]

I've gone through screening at a major regional airport with a pistol. I dutifully put it in the basket, the screeners x-rayed it (I'm not sure what they thought was inside) and then handed it back to me to go on my way.

[Skypatrol]

Yeah, it's an absolute joke! One airport you need to take your shoes off, the next you can leave em on, but WAIT, they check your aerosol, and so on, while our baggage handlers, caterers etc walk in and out as they please.

Skipper and I went thru security a few days back and then the skipper was pulled aside for an explosives test. Whilst being tested he noted to the security chap we were running late for the next flight, so once he was done with the skipper you'll never guess what he did next.... he grabbed me for a test.

Delay due security crap!

[NZLeardriver]

It can be even worse in the US. I was in Puerto Rico on a medivac flight and we went out to get a bite to eat. The TSA monkeys wouldnt let us back through security because we didnt have a passenger ticket. We explained that the reason we were wearing pilots uniforms was that we were not passengers, we were the crew of the jet they can see behind them. They didnt like our crew badge because it was not from one of the major carriers. Apparently anyone can buy a pilots uniform and make a crew pass on their computer.
Eventually the medical team arrived and were starting to load the patient. We had to call them and get them to come and vouch for us. What a clusterf**k.

[Pete Conrad]

The APS rockapes and their bum buddies that man the screening machines are just wankers who have a little power and get off on applying it.

I had one moron ask to see our flightplan in the Brisbane International terminal last week after I had walked through the x-ray machine. Gotta watch out for that deadly staple hey?

APS are a bunch of plastic coppers who failed to make it in the real world, this is their chance to assert their ego.

Thats my rant.

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Unless security measures are credible, they will never be taken seriously. Australia is an absolute joke. Look at that idiot Anderson - he has absolutely no idea. The shambles that is Sydney has demonstrated that. Smoke and mirrors security only - "screen the pilots, that'll show'em we're serious." And - when asked about the customs report, he blustered and says "oh, that's the way it was 18 months ago, much better now", then changes tune and says "oh, I took immediate action when advised about the report.... I FORWARDED IT TO THE PRIME MINISTER...." Right, that'll fix everything!

I'm quietly left wondering if in the back of Anderson's mind is a sneaky little bit of retribution towards pilots for being instrumental in getting Aust airspace safe again last year. I don't really think so - I just think he's incompetent.

The whole thing is a total farce.

[apache]

they are now telling me that they want to see my deodorant can - to make sure it has a lid on it - If it does not, they take it away from me ....

Good thing too! This is an IATA requirement as per the Dangerous Goods Regulations table 2.3A

I also object to being screened, prodded, poked and assumed to be a terrorist, just because I am a pilot.

AS was said before, the "persons" involved in the Sep 11th hi-Jackings were NOT pilots, they were PASSENGERS.

Let's face it... we don't NEED weapons to hijack our own aircraft, and it don't matter a rat's arse whether or not you have a security card, photo licence, or name printed on their undies... if the other guy WANTS to kill everybody onboard by crashing the plane... then NOTHING the fed Govt tried to implement will stop this.

Fortunately, I don't get paid enough to crash.

[Howard Hughes]

Fortunately, I don't get paid enough to crash.

But the 75 virgin's in the afterlife Apache, think of the 75 virgin's!!;)

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[apache]

But the 75 virgin's in the afterlife Apache, think of the 75 virgin's!!

hmmm ... tempting, but :

75 to last for all eternity ?

I might hold out until MORE virgins join the throng.

One more point though... if you security guards ARE reading.... when you confiscate someones deodorant - please feel free to use it occasionally!

[Kanga767]

What is it with Airports and Aircraft that scares so many people into insisting on intense security? Why doesn't the same thing apply to shopping centres, bus stations, or like so many have pointed out here, fuel tankers??

These latest crackdowns on screening all airside staff as reported in the media today are impractical. The only reason they pick on Aircrew is that it is relatively easy. My opinion is that it should cease. It is achieving nothing.

There also seems to be two issues, one of the threat of terrorism and the other of theft/ interference of belongings. I believe they require different approaches to resolve them.

K

[hangar 9]

I don't believe you guys, you are so up yourselves, these security staff are trying to do a job and apparently they are following SOP as prescibed by their job desciption. And it is a serious business ensuring that nothing gets past their inspection that might bring down an aircraft with 300 souls onboard.

Hang on a minute I know of another group of employees that take their job seriously and want go against their SOP but then you wear a hat and shinny buttons and you know better than everyone else.

You are paid employees like the rest of us, let them do their jobs and you do yours.

[NZLeardriver]

Hanger9

The problem is that they dont try to do their jobs and they dont take it seriously. It often feels like they are taking the pi$$ more than anything. They inspect a pilots flight plan but let others through with guns? "Its ok, hes one of us the gun is fine. Better check that pilots anal cavity again, there might be something in there that could crash the plane."

[Kanga767]

Furthermore, If I interpret the tone of the community correctly, there is more interest in alleged trafficking and theft at present.
Doesn't the implementation of screening with this intent just put another corruptable link in the chain?

"But we will conduct extensive background checks on these individuals to ensure their good character" I hear you say.

Well, how about conduct those extensive checks on us all and leave it at that?

Oh, and Hangar 9,



ensuring that nothing gets past their inspection that might bring down an aircraft with 300 souls onboard.


I think what these guys are trying to tell you is that they already have the access and capacity to do this simply by their presence. Screening them achieves nothing. You let them on after the screening don't you??
It is their good character and sense of responsibility that prevents it happening, something a metal detector won't find.

[Erin Brockovich]

Ok hangar 9. Please, from now on can everybody refrain from questioning stupid policy and keep the status quo. Security staff will now be sitting jump seat to make sure the pilots don’t deviate from their flight plans. Anyone who deviates more that +/- 1 degree will be shot. Those with a metal fork will be restrained. you wear a hat and shinny buttons and you know better than everyone else.well who else is ultimately responsible if something does bring down an aircraft with 300 souls onboard. Not the security staff who let the drug smuggling baggage handlers through. And it is a serious business ensuring that nothing gets past their inspectionThen why don't all staff regardless of who they are get screened. If you are going to apply stupid standards then they should apply to everyone equally. But using common sense might be a better way to go.

hanger 9, I'm sorry if a pilot slept with you and forgot to call the next day. We're not all up ourselves. :E

[GalleyHag]

All over the media today they are stating a lot of people will loose their jobs due to new background checks. I dont understand this, didnt we all go through the police checks last year for the re-issue of the ASIC? What additional checks will they undertake to effect so many people?

[Rich-Fine-Green]

H.H.

But the 75 virgin's in the afterlife Apache, think of the 75 virgin's!!

Sorry H.H., but I would rather 75 Ladies that know what they are doing.

:E

[Capt Claret]

Hangar 9,

I don't know what your position in the industry is. The rejection of the current security measures is not just king-dick thinking though.

As I said in my originating post, ONLY the tech & cabin crew are screened. If the aeroplane blows up of all the workers associated with the operation of the aeroplane it's ONLY the tech and cabin crew who die.

When I get to my aeroplane in the morning, having run the gammut of completely irrelevant screening I find a catering supervisor sitting, usually in row 1, reading the paper. Said supervisor hasn't been screened and is unsupervised for some time. Then on come the caterers and load unscreened galley trolleys, then the baggies load unscreened checked luggage (for domestic out of my Captial city home port)!

Now I'm not suggesting that baggies, caterers, cleaners, ground staff or engineers etc. are not to be trusted BUT for the life of me I can't understand why it's only those who's lives are at risk that are screened!

I was born almost 50 years ago into a country where we took freedom and a free way of life for granted. I really object to attempts to make me feel threatened and scared by a government that sticks its nose in where it doesn't belong, claims that said sticking won't cause any trouble, then hoiks on us this bureaucracy, all at the consumers' cost and inconvenience! :yuk: :mad:

[18-Wheeler]

Bit surprised that no-one's yet mentioned that famous incident in the US, where a QF captain (not sure if this whole thing is true but this is the way I heard it) was told that he couldn't take some otherwise innoculous item on the plane with him.
When confronted as to why not, the security baboon looked him right in the face and said, "Because we're worried you might try to take control of the airplane (sic)."

It's silly enough to be true.

[hangar 9]

Well I have definitely stirred a few of you old-timers into life, but you better get yourselves into the 21st century. This is the way things will be from now and there is not that much you can do about it, except have your bitch.

I would like to advise you extremely clever and precise aviators that we are not the only ones using these forums and you have been expressing far more of the operation around the preparation of an aircraft for flight and the personnel involved in it. I believe the moderator should be stepping in and editing a few posts, too much information. But you know all there is to know about security????



Hangar9. If I thought there was any security breach in this thread I would have pulled it long ago.

Now, if you want to know the intimate details of how our airport security works, ask any baggage handler, followed by 30 minutes or so gazing out the windows of any airport domestic departure gate.

Woomera

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Hangar 9, I'd be really interested in exactly what your position in the aviation industry is. Perhaps you are a screener trying to justify your colleagues' behaviour?

They gave me four stripes and the command of a wide-body Boeing. Logic has it that my background has been checked, double-checked, triple-checked and that I've been deemed not a security risk. Any doubt on that and I'd be given my marching orders quick smart. And yet, I walk through a screening point, don't set off the beeper and the security goons shout at me to go back through again, this time "take your hand out of your pocket" Huh?!?! Please explain? What's the f----g difference whether the hand is one side of a piece of fabric or the other side? I didn't set off the beeper..... :uhoh:

As has been said time and time again - if I wanted to commandeer the jet I can walk through screening butt-naked and still achieve that. Everybody knows it!

And yet, 80-90% of airport staff continue to come and go as free as they like, unscreened. DO YOU NOT SEE A PROBLEM HERE?

Thank God for the media for a change - they are the ones who have embarassed the Govt into action over the holes that continue to exist despite it being almost 4 years on from Sep 11. Anderson and co. sure as heck haven't listened to anyone else pointing out problems. He's at least consistent in that regard.... Look at the NAS2B shambles as another example of that.

All we want is sensible, consistent, all-encompassing security, as opposed to the smoke-and-mirrors joke we have now.

[18-Wheeler]

Hangar 9, You do realise that by your own standards because you have not had the correct security check if you set foot on my aircraft I will insist on you leaving it, or be arrested as you are a security risk?

[hangar 9]

Well the same goes for you, please don't set foot on my a/c until I have cleared it for flight, and really I do think some of you need your butts checked because there is definitely something up there.

[NZLeardriver]

please don't set foot on my a/c until I have cleared it for flight

Your aircraft Hangar9? I dare you to call it that at the airport.

[Kaptin M]

Don't be suckered into hangar 9's trolls - he is reminiscent of, if not the same d!ckw!t - who has trolled on the main Rumours forum for the past couple of years.
Of course, he'll deny it. However, his bait stinks of exactly the same smell as whose-e-whatsit's did (Sorry h 9, but you remain as unimportant here, as you were there.)

Yes, worldwide - and within the same ports - the standards are often 180 degrees from one shift, to the next.
I can walk through (as a pax) with a "bottle" of XXXXjuice and be stopped in my tracks, to have it tested in those bottle-checker units, yet waltz through, unchallenged, in the adjoining one.
(Incidentally, I congratulate the people who demand a check of the "bottle"...after all, it's only in OUR BEST interests, that they are alert enough, and take the time, to detect these possible, subtle wmd's.)

Sure there's overkill at times, but better that way than the other, I think we'd all agree.
Wouldn't we?

It's taken me some time to live with it, and sometimes it REALLY p!55e5 me off, but now I just accept it. Just as they probably accept that we are going to be arrogant @ssholes when we're "pushed"! :ok:

[Erin Brockovich]

You have got to be f#cking kidding 'hanger ON'. You are the ultimate paranoid outcome that the government wants from its uninformed public. Sorry, the game is up boys. 'Hanger ON' has uncovered the pilot conspiracy!!!
we are not the only ones using these forums and you have been expressing far more of the operation around the preparation of an aircraft for flight and the personnel involved in it. I believe the moderator should be stepping in and editing a few posts, too much information.Your absolutely right. God forbid if ever this information got into the wrong hands. Moderator have this thread flagged. Security..........Thought Police............anyone.please don't set foot on my a/c until I have cleared it for flightI think you meant cleaned it for flight. Just remember to empty the rubbish from the seat pockets.

[Angle of Attack]

I cant believe your replying to Hangar 9?

The sooner you guys realise that it has nothing to do with the security guys the better!! I mean they are only following directions! I mean this war on terrorism,what is it??? I'll tell you around 2000 U.S. deaths and as at 7/06/20005 180,000 civilian deaths in the so called war against terror.....who cares go and live your little lives, i mean im a pilot but i dont give a fu$k, its my money and any guys that think more are idiots...terrorism what a joke!! 2000 lives they took is very bad... i i agree but who cares! Go and debate it meanwhile i will support poor people who have been disadvantaged by the wests crazy adventure against so called terrorists!!! Rascism still exists everywhere

[hangar 9]

(Incidentally, I congratulate the people who demand a check of the "bottle"...after all, it's only in OUR BEST interests, that they are alert enough, and take the time, to detect these possible, subtle wmd's.)Sure there's overkill at times, but better that way than the other, I think we'd all agree.
Wouldn't we?

It's taken me some time to live with it, and sometimes it REALLY p!55e5 me off, but now I just accept it. Just as they probably accept that we are going to be arrogant @ssholes when we're "pushed"!

So you do agree with me Kaptin.

And in the absense of the pilot who gives clearance to go ahead and board?

ME ! !

[Erin Brockovich]

Well 180,000 deaths over 18,000 years isn’t that bad……….but on a serious note, no-one here has stated or implied that they don’t care about terrorism. Yes it is a fact of life now and probably here to stay for a while. What makes it worse though is knee jerk reactions and poorly thought out anti-terror measures.

Now hanger 9 and AoA, have a good re-read of the previous posts and try to see where everyone is coming from. I’ll say it again. Why screen the pilots who have been already screened and have a vested interest in the safety of the aircraft but not other workers with access who stay on the ground. Smoke and mirrors, not a real solution.

[Kaptin M]

And in the absense of the pilot who gives clearance to go ahead and board? Where is a plane without a pilot going? :O

Oh, so you're a Loadmaster then, h 9.
The only stuff boarded without the pic's permission is freight, and aircraft (ship's) stores.
Bums in seats will have to wait until the Tech crew gives the nod that THEY are ready.

Did I state that I disagreed with ALL of what you said, h 9?
You can read whatever you like into my post.

[Pete Conrad]

And yet it is OK for the security guards and APS to enter airside and walk around on the tarmac without going through screening? I have seen it myself in Sydney!!

[18-Wheeler]

And yet it is OK for the security guards and APS to enter airside and walk around on the tarmac without going through screening? I have seen it myself in Sydney!!


My point exactly.
I have gone through the screening and I know the security baboons haven't.
Since I now know they have not been checked, why should I not have them removed or arrested if they enter my plane? They couild be carrying anything.
They are obviously a security risk.

As a pilot I have an inherent interest in the security of my aeroplane, they do not.

[Pete Conrad]

18-wheeler, it's that point alone that should be brought to the attention of departmental secrateries and heads of Government, as to why can their staff bypass security screening when they can be found at times to be just as corrupt as anyone else.

Attorney Generals department, DOTARS, Federal Police, all members of all departments should go through the same screening daily as everybody else.

You want to get serious about security, screen EVERYBODY!!

[hangar 9]

So next time you are still getting your hot chocolate on the way from your briefing, while everyone awaits your presence, and the CSM asks me if it is ok to board the PAX. I should answer, "who gives a sh!t". or perhaps next time you arrive at the a/c and the pax's are already boarding , you should announce" everyone please clear the a/c while I make my entrance.

Qantas SOP requires I give clearance to board in your absence, but then I don't know what they do in the regionals.

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Well, Hangar 9, who ever you are, you are clearly not a pilot or a CSM by what you have said. So, I suggest you go and have another read of the Qantas books before you exceed your authority again:

from the Flight Admin Manual:

18.4 Passenger Boarding.

The CSM (or deputy) shall not accept passengers for boading until it has been confirmed with the Pilot-In-Command (or deputy) that embarkation of passengers may proceed.

If, at the proposed boarding time, the Pilot-In-Command (or deputy) is unavailable and in the absence of any contrary information the CSM (or deputy) may approve boarding.

For domestic operations, in order to maintain the abilty to establish immediate communication with Cabin Crew should any need arise, passenger boarding shall not commence until at least one Flight Crew member is present. That Flight Crew member must be aware that boarding is taking place and may be either on the flight deck or conducting the walk-around.

(.....plus a bit of extra, not-relevant stuff....)

If you are not a Captain, F/O, S/O, CSM or CSS, you don't have that authority. Period. The CSM (deputy) may consult with you as to whether the passengers are ready to board, but they aren't getting your approval. At the end of the day, when considering duty-of-care issues, liability, etc, it is a very important distinction.

You bring this on yourself with childish comments about '"getting hot chocolate on the way from briefing". If we're late to the plane it's for a good reason, certainly not because we've stopped at the shop. Goodness me.......

Now......... back to the bloody topic!

[Pete Conrad]

Hangar9, this topic is about legitimate safety concerns that us professional pilots have in regard to who boards our aircraft and who walk around airside unchecked. I think it is a fair and valid point that everybody should go through screening, regardless of where you work and in what capacity.

Security is not about having one set of rules for one and another set of rules for someone else.

The reason why pilots get so p!ssed off is because there is no consistency with who gets screened.

I find it appaling that a Group 4 security person can walk airside without going through screening, and I have seen this myself at Sydney, whereas, us pilots get the full bottle.

As a tech crew member, I get very concerned when I see non-aviation types getting access airside without screening, thats my point.

[Erin Brockovich]

Baggage handler 'wrote guide to killing infidels'
By David King
10jun05

THE jihad guide says assassins should have a terrorist psychology, quick wits and a strong ideology in order to kill infidels.
The guide details the best way for "brothers and small cells" to fight to support Islam and spells out the rewards of martyrdom.

Former Qantas baggage handler Bilal Khazal is alleged to have compiled the document, entitled Provisions on the rules of Jihad, as a manual for militants to wage holy war.

He faced a Sydney court yesterday charged with collecting and making documents connected with terrorism. Need we say more!

[pullock]

Hangar9,

I simply can't believe that you are saying what you are saying. Your blind faith in the idea that what the government does is best for you makes you the ideal robot.

It is older people and those who are able to think critically and for themselves who question stupid laws like these.

Everyone who works at or flys from an airport knows that the security is simple to bypass, and is only achievement is visible security to the masses.

Nobody here has mentioned any operational "secret" that any observant bad dude wouldn't notice himself. If you think they wouldn't then it is you who has the ego - not the posters here.

The rules are crap. The people who enforce them tend to be over-zealous with a little power and low pay.

Don't you get the irony of having a securitar guard exerting his will over you when he has half your IQ, and his only job qualification is a TAFE security certificate and the fact that he applied for the job!!!!

As I have said in the past - now everybody is an authoratative figure - airport securitar guards may have been unemployed two months ago and are now securitar nazis. This is not the Australia I remember, nor the one that I want to live in.

blah.

[boofhead]

You are not alone, Pullock..

How many real terrorists have been caught trying to board airplanes by airport security? None.
If they did catch one or two, assuming they were armed or had explosives, what would they do then? With the press of panicking passengers in the Disneyland queue, how could they stop these terrorists from blowing themselves up or shooting the civilians around them, which seems to be what a terrorist is all about? There can be no effective armed response, they tried that and the guards got so bored they had to pull them out. Only in countries like Korea do you see well-armed teams patrolling the airports. When I see that in LAX or Sydney I will agree that progress is being made.
It is worse than a joke; it wastes resources that could otherwise be used to do a real job at detecting the threats and protecting the traveling public, and by inferring that if we give up our rights and freedoms we will be safe is fraud and a huge lie. It is all about power, as is most politics. The government(s) must think that 9/11 was a gift from God, it gives them so much more power, influence and money, and at no risk to them. When they fail to stop the terrorists, who learn quickly how to bypass "security", they can claim they need even more of our freedoms and money. If there are no attacks, they can claim to be preventing them. Win-win for those we continue to elect into positions of power. We are the fools.

[Ultralights]

i would be willing to bet that the delivery area get no change to security arrangment, after all this security BS, i will still be able to get into the "clean" area of the terminal with any size parcel i can carry! unchecked, and unchallenged! just as i have alwys been!

[Chimbu chuckles]

What seems to have been (conveniantly) 'forgotten' in the intervening period since 9/11 is that no failure of airport security occurred on that day. The only latent failure was that of the intellegence community...again!

For the most part money spent on airport security in Australia since then has been wasted...any self respecting terrorist could have and still could get whatever they need airside and onto the aircraft and then the terrorists board through 'security'.

But if/when they do they can't access the cockpit because we are all locked safe in the cockpit and fully aquainted with the repercussions of opening said armoured door.

So what usefull purpose has the increased agravation to the travelling public/aircrews served? About the only one I can see is the terrorists are incapacitated with laughter at the collective stupidity of our elected officials and the empire building morons they have placed in charge of 'protecting' us.

[Ultralights]

as i have said from day 1, every new law, restriction, security check, is another win for terrorism! every thing done since Sep 11, will not prevent another one!

[V1OOPS]

ChimbuSo what usefull purpose has the increased agravation to the travelling public/aircrews served? About the only one I can see is the terrorists are incapacitated with laughter at the collective stupidity of our elected officials and the empire building morons they have placed in charge of 'protecting' us.And how many more millions (billions?) will be spent before the paranoia wears off - even in Oz?

It used to be Reds under the bed that kept them awake - now it's Osamas in pyjamas.

The loonies are now running the mad house.

[sigh]

[Capt Claret]

To add to the Reds under the Bed and to prove that the whole shebang is run by loonies ....

Last trip ex the Centrally located regional airport the F/O was nabbed by the ever vigilant security guards. His misdemeanour? He had the temerity to try and smuggle two Allen keys, through in his nav bag.

That said Allen Keys had lived in the bag for some 6 or more years, forgotten for the last 5, and had been undetected through countless xray checks at countless aerodromes was irrelevant.

These highly dangerous (and blunt) Allen Keys were not permitted into the sterile area of the airport and had to be surrendered. :zzz:

[Eastwest Loco]

Then there is security at LAX.

The reason they do security scans with photos and fingerprints is because Manuel and Jesus and their mates (like the rest of the scabby service industry in that schizeenholen) probably can't read English and have an IQ hovering around room temperature during winter with the heat pump off.

You could probably get a rocket propelled grenade through security there as generally the cheapest contractor is the same mob that cleans the terminal, and a Mattel sticker would most likely fool them.

Try getting on with a pair of nail scissors though.

EWL

[pullock]

I'm afraid I just won't be transiting the USA again.

Aparently they now require finger print scans of Australians whilst not requiring the same of UK citizens. Apart from the obvious outrageous inequality there, as Australians (not necisarily by choice) we stood beside the US in their war against Iraq, as did the UK- yet we are required to be treated as criminals until proven innocent - we do not expect the same of US citizens entering Australia.

So now we see our own government favoring US citizens above it's own.

I hope that our government reads this so it can have some idea of how miss guided it has become.

[Capt Claret]

pullock

In a similar vein, Phillip Ruddock waived jurisdiction in a case where two US marines were charged with attempted murder after they allegedly attacked and glassed a Townsville man, under the guise that "the US marines would face harsher sentences in a US military court than in the Australian courts."

See here for the full story (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15740306%255E2702,00.html) of how this Australian was treated with less rights by his own government than foreign soldiers were afforded.

Bill Leak's cartoon in The Australian, last year, says it all.



http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Liar Birds for net.jpg

(thanks john for hosting)

[Lower the Nose!]

{ Apparently they now require finger print scans of Australians whilst not requiring the same of UK citizens }

Not so, I'm afraid. It's the same for us too.