New York controller’s earning $200,000

[LTNman]

Some controlllers in NY are earning $200,000 a year. So what are you on?

The Federal Aviation Administration is charging the air-traffic controller’s union with manipulating schedules to maximize overtime at the New York Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON) facility in Westbury, L.I. As the result of an investigation, the FAA is canceling an agreement that effectively allowed the union to set workers’ schedules and turning that responsibility over to management.

The facility, which handles air traffic into the New York City area, incurred overtime costs of more than $4 million in 2004, the agency said. As a result some 21 controllers at the facility earned more than $200,000 last year, not including benefits, and the FAA expects 51 controllers to pull in such salaries this year unless overtime is curbed.

While officials with the air-traffic controllers union claim that understaffing has led to errors, the FAA claims that none of the serious errors were attributable to inadequate staffing. In addition, the FAA says that workers at the New York facility actively manage traffic for only 3 hours and 39 minutes a day, the lowest of any major TRACON facility.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

About time air traffic controllers earned some half-sensible money. Now tell us how much an American Airline Captain earns - including ALL his allowances.....

[Widger]

So what is your point guys? NATS certainly ain't gonna pay you that sort of money, not while BA are your shareholders. Good work if you can get it but my money is on plumbing!. Maybe you all need a bit more of the French attitude in you!


regards:ok:

[411A]

Source, ATWonline

FAA blasts controller union over 'inefficient and wasteful practices'
Friday June 3, 2005
US FAA issued a blistering report yesterday in which it claimed that "union-controlled scheduling practices" at the New York Terminal Radar Approach Control facility were "inefficient and wasteful" and resulted in overtime costs that are "more than double" those at any other ATC facility in the country.The report, the result of a 60-day investigation begun in March, also found that recent attempts by FAA management to curb wasteful practices "were met with resistance, followed by anonymous reports of 'operational errors.'"

Controllers are represented by the National Air Traffic Controllers Assn., whose president, Jonathan Carr, dismissed the allegations yesterday in a conference call with reporters. "FAA had a golden opportunity to address what we view are serious staffing and management problems that are addressing the New York Tracon. Sadly, they have failed to accomplish that and once again resorted to scapegoating," Carr stated.

FAA said it is "immediately acting to curb the abuses," including canceling agreements entered into in the early 1990s "that gave the union de facto control" over scheduling and related areas. "The New York Tracon has more than enough staff to get the job done safely," said FAA Administrator Marion Blakey in a statement. "A schedule that is designed to maximize overtime pay is no schedule at all."

The report showed that controllers at the New York Tracon earned more than $4.12 million in overtime last year while handling fewer flights with more controllers than most comparable facilities around the country. For example, it handled 2.07 million IFR operations with 210 controllers, an average of 9,841 per controller. The Chicago Tracon with 74 controllers handled 1.5 million IFR operations (20,302 per controller) and had just $0.7 million in overtime. The New York Tracon did outperform the Southern California Tracon, which averaged 9,038 operations per controller, but that facility generated just $1.6 million in overtime.

Twenty-one controllers at the New York Tracon earned more than $200,000 in wages and overtime last year and the number is projected to increase to 51 in 2005, according to the report. Some controllers earned overtime in weeks in which they also called in sick, and on average the report concluded that controllers at the facility worked only 3 hr. 39 min. per day actually managing traffic.

However, Carr said, "It's disingenuous to measure a controller's day by time on position" because this ignores time spent in pre-briefing, post-briefing, training other controllers, debriefing other controllers and other activities. "As far as a measure of productivity, it [time on position] is useless," he declared. He also said overtime was necessary because the Tracon is understaffed: "FAA sets the staffing number and they are currently staffing that facility at 76% of their own number."

But according to the FAA report, absences due to sick leave and annual leave, not traffic levels, accounted for 56% of the facility's overtime costs.

The investigative team also determined that "none of the 160 operational errors--or loss of aircraft separation, reported or uncovered--posed any known risk of collision or required the pilots to take action or report a near miss." The most serious errors were attributable to performance problems by individual controllers, not understaffing, according to the report.

[atcea.com]

$200,000/year: a tax collector's dream-come-true! If an airline pilot makes that kind of money he has sufficient time away from work to set up various and sundry tax shelters, so the money is good. Controllers working overtime and shift-work are too worn out to do anything but hand it over to Nassau County, the State of New York and, what's left, to the IRS. What looks like good money turns out to be just one more frustration of being a controller.

Management blames the union for . . . "poor management of overtime." Ummm, isn't this what unions are supposed to do? Look out for the best interests of the membership? Not surprising they're not great managers.

3 and a half hours of daily pounding your head against the radar scope in one of the world's most complex chunks of airspace...sounds like more than enough to me.
---
ATC 24/7 (http://atcea.com)

[Barnaby the Bear]

I'll have some of that please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...... A pot noodle and a Mars bar if I put in the overtime for this ATCO. :}

[NATCA BNA]

FAA management establishes the number of controllers required for each shift, and FAA management determines when and if overtime will be used, so how is this the Unions fault?

Mike
NATCA BNA

[Scott Voigt]

Yeah more FAA BS... They are gearing up for contract negotiations, so they blame controllers for working overtime. Hmmm, let's see, it is the management who sets the schedule, they are the ones who authorize overtime and they are the ones how set the staffing numbers as well as people on board at a facility. Yeah right, it's all those controllers fault who control the FAA <sigh>. It's a shame that there are going to be a LOT of folks who actually believe that sort of rubish...

regards

Scott

[texas01]

A word of advice from Canada. Do not under any circumstances allow them to force "shift logic" on you. We were told how wonderful and flexible it would be to everyone. It is the worst thing "the nav" has ever done to us. this news release sounds just like here before the big pitch for shift logic Never allow it.

[Fly Through]

Whole heartedly agree with you there texas01, especially when shiftlogic needs an army of people to run it!

We were thinking about the overtime issue the other day, it's probably cheaper for the company/administration to force extra overtime rather than pay an extra controller. Anyways who'd want to work 9 on, 1 off to earn that kind of money (max allowable in Canada)?

FT

[cossack]

I agree with the guys about Shift Logic. I think there are 4 or 5 employed to make it "work" for the Tower, TCU and ACC.

FT's thoughts on overtime usage by the company are spot on. There will always be those willing to work the max in order to fill their pockets. 9 and 1 is the norm for 5 or 6 individuals here. A basic salary of $100K can be increased to $160-170K with the max OT permissable.

After a while controllers will get tired and go sick, triggering more OT and so the circle continues. Number of controllers needed = 50. Number qualified = 38. If we all did the max 96 hours/56 days, we'd still run short on many shifts. Since only a few do the max, then we're short on a lot of shifts.

[ifaxu]

As an Atco in uk I earn roughly $150,000 without overtime so for the ny controllers to earn $200,000 does not seem excessive. If I was to do overtime I am sure my salary could approach $180,000 and I would not be overly fatigued. Good luck to them I say and lets trust their professional judgement not to work excessive hours.

As for our Canadian brothers and their staff shortages perhaps if they were to treat experienced controllers relocating to their country with the respect they deserve having validated previously in a more complex airspace system then some of their problems would be eased!

[eastern wiseguy]

you guys are always moaning at your salaries


and your point is?

[Scott Voigt]

Yeah the FAA has been dancing around shift logic and we have been able to expose it for what it is, however it doesn't mean that they won't bring it back up. Our administrator REALLY wants us to work split shifts. We on the other hand are REALLY against that idea. If they do try to force it on us though, we have one big card in the deck. About 40% of us ready to retire at the drop of a hat in the next couple of years. That is a big loaded gun <G>...

I for one plan on staying around about another five years to pay off the house. I am elligible to retire though in ten months. I would have no qualms at all though if life got to difficult to just say the heck with it and retire.

Oh, right now we have a new computer program in place that tracks where everyone is at the facility and exactly what they are doing and at what time they did it. The supervisors are spending more time playing with that and don't have time to fully watch the operation... Another fine plan...

regards

Scott

[Jerricho]

As an Atco in uk I earn roughly $150,000

Mate, don't fall into that trap of doing a direct conversion (I'm taking it you've been here and for what ever reason things didn't go as well as they should have). Standard of living and all that.

The Nav Canada relocation and conditions for experienced controllers was pretty damn good. I've heard there are 2 experienced Kiwis that have started with Air Services and haven't got anywhere near as good a deal. As to the shortcomings of how the training system actually deals with the experienced people, they do seem to be centre/unit specific.

As to Shift Logic........it sure does bite. I laugh every time I hear about fatigue management courses and stuff available. :rolleyes:

[ifaxu]

Jerricho I have never set foot in canada though I would love to go someday but have heard plenty of stories(first hand) about the experienced controller program. Still It must work out for some and I can only agree with you that the standard of living must be much better than in the UK.

[Spuds McKenzie]

there are 2 experienced Kiwis that have started with Air Services and haven't got anywhere near as good a deal
Doesn't surprise me at all.
ASA haven't got the hang of it re a reasonable expat package.

[cossack]

if they were to treat experienced controllers relocating to their country with the respect they deserve...
I'm guessing you mean financial rather than personal or professional.

I was a top of the scale ATCO2 (c£65K) and I came in at the bottom of the salary scale here but I'm living very comfortably without the need for my wife to work which she did in the UK. You can live very well on C$100K, never mind C$160K. If I use your direct comparison, I'm being paid a third less and am way better off. What does that tell you?

I didn't have to spend a year at the training college to "re-learn" everything I already knew as NATS has its overseas hires doing. Jerricho could tell you more about that though.

I have been treated no better or worse for being British. For some the program didn't work out maybe for personal rather than professional reasons and thats tough. For some though, there will be no looking back.

I know a Kiwi now in Oz and ASA demanded a A$70,000 bond in case 5 years weren't worked. No such requirement here.

[Fly Through]

Cossack, where do you get C$100k from as bottom of the scale? For C$160 you'd need some serious ot too. Jerricho is right, it depends which centre you're at as to how you are treated and how far your money goes. Needless to say I'm still training, 9 months after getting here, my course is at 50 % strength and I think they're all wonderful :E

[cossack]

I was including a modest amount of OT to make the $100K. There were a few here at scale max who last year made close to $170K. I think if you maxed out every period you could get about $65K in OT alone at scale max.

The first year was always going to be tough, especially training in a tower where they pay you 2 grades less whilst training, so I was AI-03 for the first 11 months! Now at AI-05 (level 2) + OFP has me at $86K. 20 OTs in the year would make up the difference.

[texas01]

Fatigue studies, what a joke. The results of their fatigue study was ......a caffeine managment plan, literally, if you are tired drink coffee. I am not joking, that was their response to fatigue and shift logic. I wonder how much that study cost.

[Jerricho]

Funnily enough Texas, in the saftey survey we were all given, I was very constructive (there's always a first time) regarding fatigue issues and happily put my name on the survey so they could discuss the matter further..........

Still waiting.

[texas01]

Mine name is on mine as well, never heard a thing back?

[Uncommon Sense]

Same old story - incompetent Federal Government ignores warnings about staff shortgaes for years - ignores audit office reports on impending staffing crisis - and when $hit hits the fan blames the dwindling remaining burnt out controllers. Logic = zero.

No wonder Bush always shouts how much he loves freedom - it's the mantra of fascists.

And we are seeing the same thing in Australia.

Good luck NATCA.

[justcoolen]

The only program Nav Canada can offer is a substance abuse program. They have nothing for fatigue related issues, unless you include the sick leave interviews. At which time all they can offer you is rehab.

IFAXU, are you referring to a particular center, and how they treated some controllers? You will be pleased to know that Nav Canada is now offering a "Sensitivity Training" course. To help with all the harassment charges. They are only about 30 years too late in our profession

Overtime, haven't had a call in almost a year. Perfect, take my days off, relax, enjoy. The more OT hogs, the better. Keeps me at home where I should be. The money is nice, but they can have it, to help pay for their medications and treatments when their health goes down the tubes.

[Jerricho]

if you are tired drink coffee

And what happens if, like me, you're alergic to the stuff? Tough s*** I guess.

[justcoolen]

Hey Jerricho, during those winter months, run around the parking lot in a t-shirt, that otta wake you up. Then you will get the flu, you can call in sick, then you will get an interview....on second thought, disregard my regard.

[DirtyPierre]

Scott et al,

What must really pi$$ you guys off is the way the FAA use statistics. Comparing numbers of flights to numbers of controllers and revenue earned is crap! Numbers of flights handled has nothing to do with workload. That's why the Uni of Qld is in Brisbane Centre doing a workload study.

Sounds like the FAA has accountants running (or trying to run) the USA ATM System.

[Jerricho]

DP, is that the same mob that did the study of the effects on controllers of the BNE control tower swaying in the wind.............by observing how the water in the dunny was moving? ;)

[DirtyPierre]

Jerricho,

No a different bunch. You should see their little asian technician. She's very nice.

[TrafficTraffic]

Hey DP,

Do you know how they are actually calculating this "workload", is it connected to complexity or time or something else? Genuinely interested as the EuroMafia here in Limbabwe are also deeply involved (read spent-a-lot-of-money) on a project very similar to this.

The problem being that if they actually caculate the workoad they might actually figure out how busy we are - have to reduce the acceptance levels and pay us more....sorry got carried away there :ugh:

...out of interest what do 2 kiwis cost these days?