Who owns the Aircraft?

[charlie-india-mike]

Quick question

How do you find out who really owns an aircraft?

I know you can search the G-INFO database to find out who the registered keeper is but I am after the definitive owner

Thanks

C-I-M

[2Donkeys]

I am not sure what exactly you think you are after. The registered owner of the aircraft is the name(s) you find on G-INFO.

However, if the aircraft is the subject of Mortgage, this too will be registered, although the details will not be fully available via G-INFO.

None of this precludes the third possibility that the aircraft is acting as security for some other form of debt.

You need to make it more clear what you are actually after.

Terms like Keeper and owner relate to cars, not aircraft.

2D

[charlie-india-mike]

2D
Thanks for the reply, maybe I did not make myself very clear.

Do aircraft have such a thing as a deed of ownership?

C-I-M

[Flash0710]

G-info yes it's snother tool for then pedantic pointless and bitter.......:zzz:

Or something EGSU management can\'t work....

feel an mor coming on............



F,:E

[charlie-india-mike]

Lets try to get this stright

I have been offered an aircraft to buy from someone who is not the registered owner (G-INFO).

I believe that there may be some monies outstanding on said aircraft, how do I go about finding the true owner and making sure that if I do buy it then I will not be later faced with the situtation of someone coming and saying that I have no right to the aircraft as the people who sold it were not the real owners.

C-I-M

[muffin]

The CAA will do a mortgage search for you. It costs £20 and you can do it over the phone by credit card. The answer gets faxed back to you the same day. However, there is no obligation for anybody taking a mortgage charge over an aircraft to register it with the CAA. hence a negative answer from them just means that there is no charge registered.

If somebody has lent against it, there may not even be a mortgage in existence. If you are in doubt, just ask for proof of ownership like a receipt for its purchase, then check with the previous owner. If the registered owner is a limited company and the seller is a director of that company it is probably all above board. You can do a search at Compnies House to find out the directors of UK limited companies.

In simple terms, just ask the seller to prove to you they own it.If they want the transaction to go ahead they will do just that.

Caveat Emptor.

[Sensible]

I think that I would want to get both the seller and the registered owner talking to me and have documentation agreeing to the sale from both of them. The best bet is to start by mentioning to the person who is selling the aircraft that you have noted from G-INFO that they are not the registered owner. As you say, it would be unfortunate to have paid for something that wouldn't be yours. You also need all the aircraft documentation.

[Whopity]

Ask yourself another question, if they are not registered as the owner, how accurate is the rest of the documentation?

[Bluebeard777]

Is there any reason to believe that the registered owner must also be the beneficial owner?

[distaff_beancounter]

As far as I can recall, I think that the CAA will only register an aircraft in the name of the new owner, AFTER the previous registered owner has signed the CAA transfer form.

So you would presumably need to contact the present registered owner, in any case, before you part with your money. Otherwise you might be unable to reregister the aircraft.

The 'Swansea Joke Factory' - sorry! the DVLC only records 'the keeper' of a motor vehicle, but the CAA register does seem to purport to record 'the registered owner', so it seems to have a higher status, when trying to check the true owner of an aircraft.

[muffin]

That's correct. I am just in the process of doing it. The CAA need the previous owner to sign the box on the back of the Reg document. If this is not done, they need a letter from the seller confirming that they have sold to the buyer.

[411A]

The right and proper thing to do when purchasing a private aircraft, is to use an escrow agent.
Once (and only then) when the ownership is confirmed, is purchase funding to be released to the previous confirmed owner.

This protects both the buyer and seller from any nonsense.

Usually...:}

[charlie-india-mike]

All

Thanks for the input, I will be very prudent before parting with any cash for any aeroplane.

It really does seem to be a bit of a minefield out there


C-I-M

[Rockwell]

This reminds me of a story which occurred around 25 years ago. There was a group owned single engined light aircraft based at Manchester and registered to the group's specially formed Limited Company. One day one of the group members arrived to fly it, only to find it was not present. Following several phone calls including ATC, who confirmed that the aircraft had departed a few days earlier to an airfield in Cornwall. The said airfield was contacted and they confirmed that the aircraft was indeed parked there, having just been delivered to a new owner.

Strange! The aircraft had not been for sale and was not for sale.

To cut a long story short, it appeared that one group member had taken it upon himself, without informing anyone else, to not only sell his share, but the whole aircraft! The aircraft was subsequently returned to Manchester, and a bloody nose WAS given to the culprit.

[IO540]

Out of interest, HOW does one ensure one has a good title to an aircraft?

With a house, it is the land registry entry (though there are obscure ways the transactions leading to this can be forged, and there isn't a 100% protection from a previous owner's bankrupcy.

With ordinary goods, if they are stolen, one doesn't get a title. One loses the item, and has to sue the vendor.

[UV]

CIM
Sorry, but from a previous life at the Belgrano I have to say that the "Registered Owner" of an aircraft carries no legal weight whatsoever.

If there is any dispute the CAA Aircraft Regn Dept will ask the parties concerned to decide (through the courts if need be ) and then advise them who is the Legal Owner.

The aircraft will then be registered accordingly.

I strongly suggest you have a chat with them and, I am sure they will confirm, that the Aircraft Register carries the same weight as the Vehicle Register i.e. Registered Keeper, albeit with a different name.
UV