Money saving ideas

[Waste management boy]

Guys,
Been thinking about this for a while. Every body talks about the pot being empty i`ve got a few radical ideas here we go then.

1. Think about it. It`s that time of the year when your station has its annual visit by an important person. You know that day of the year were you wear a different uniform Instead of looking like an RAC man you look like a chauffer (sorry spelling). Instead of painting grass patching things up and glossing stuff over and all the other stuff . Why not instead.
Send high ranking gold braided visitor a nice photo album cum year book instead . Imagine it we could save a fortune. Nice photographic scenes in a gucci album. He could then cut them out and use his fave pictures for post cards.

2. Think about it. Your station is skint brassic all right then just enough for new signs,pot plants and few other accesories but your station still has a commitment to fulfill. What you do is get your high street stores in your local town to sponsor and name your jets. And If your still skint they can for a price,rename your station
Imagine it
Tannoy in air terminal "welcome to RAF(insert fave burger joint) your flight to wherever is on the (insert fave burger from above said fave burger joint) jet. You options are endless they could even provide a substitute to orange squash and bensons crisps.

Folks I think with a bit of tinkering this could go somewhere
serious suggestions/ideas only please.

[SASless]

.....or when redundacies are announced...say at 10% of staff....then it is 10% across the board by each rank....most senior first....if you have not been promoted earlier....and thus now junior....you are deadwood and need to go.;)

[airborne_artist]

I think this has been around before, but I'd suggest the AT fleet should be sponsored by Tesco.com: "You shop, we drop"

[ZH875]

Schweppes could sponsor the small fleet at Wad******n - Schhhh - You Know Who

Toys 'R' us could sponser the Harrier force

Action Man sponsor the Apache

Tonka Toys sponsorship for the Tornado Fleet

Barbie can sponsor the rest of the Teeny Weenies

[Gingerbread Man]

Using tea bags more than once.

Oh,... i've just read the rest of the posts. I'll go back to Jet Blast :\ .

Ginge :)

[QuidProQuo]

Now there's an idea - saving money!!!

What's always confused me is why do the rest of the RAF have to pay for lunch in the mess (assuming they do not live in the mess) yet the aircrew get a free lunch - more commonly known as aircrew rations. Most RAF blokes - be they aircrew or ground branch - turn up for work (on average) 5 days a week and do about 50 hours a week. So, just because I am flying between, lets say 11 AM and 1.30PM, why should I get a free lunch? If as a ground branch bloke I was working over lunch hour, I would have a couple of options - bring some food from home (my expense) or buy a sandwich from the NAAFI (my expense). So why do aircrew get a free lunch. Take another example - RAF police dog handlers. OK - they choose to do the job. But they only work nights and in the winter tend to do about 12 hours at a time. Do they get a free meal in the JRM - no!!! Instead, they have to beg, borrow or steal a loaf of old bread or bring sandwiches in. Perhaps the days of "high energy rations" for aircrew should be over - aircrew are not flying 7-8 hour missions over Germany any more, being shot at in the middle of the night, in the frezzing cold, flying op missions. Why can't the aicrew eat (at their own expense) before they fly?? Obvious exceptions are long AT routes and trails - if you are away from base for over 5 hours you get subs allowance to pay for the curled up Spar sandwich so some food in fight is fair. A bit of a whinge - but if the officer corps (and that includes 99% of aircrew) are supposed to be the leaders, perhaps some leadership should be shown.

[WASALOADIE]

Have a team of personnel that hold a supply of pot plants / new signs etc and go around ahead of the reviewing officers to put them in place and them take them away to the next station once he has gone. Or cut the number of stations which in turn reduces the need for the number of reviewing officers (first part done already) should save a packet on senior officers pay alone!

[HEDP]

Quid,

I suggest that the savings made by preventing all the blunties from wearing the gucci aircrew kit would more than make up for the provision of high energy rations..........

Fights on

HEDP

[Bob Viking]

There's a very good reason we get aircrew rations.
That's because we don't get to go and sit in the mess for an hour and enjoy a nice lunch whilst reading the paper. When in the middle of a five hour planning/flying/debriefing cycle there isn't always time to get a proper lunch.
When we do have time we usually go for a quick bite in the feeder which we do pay for.
And finally, if you call toast and biscuits a free lunch then you definitely need to get out more!
BV

[Red Line Entry]

Tornado Sqn, early 90s - feeder on Sqn feeds all and sundry on night shift

Tornado Sqn, 10 years on - feeder on Sqn opens only for lunch so groundcrew have to travel the length of the airfield to get food in the main dining hall - wastes best part of an hour per bod.

Suggest to OC Catering that feeder is opened in the evening - when he picks himself off the floor following his laughing fit he explains its all to do with "efficiencies"

Even OC Eng couldn't get it changed...ain't progress wonderful?

[ZH875]

Make the working day 10am till 4 pm - Save lots of electricity

Do not let aircraft start engines until they have a clear taxi and take off run and no hold at threshold, No more than 1 circuit per sqn 4 ship on RTB - Save lots of Fuel

Aircrew coaches not dispatched until aircraft has stopped engines, save diesel fuel.

Bin AOCs inspections in toto and use the money saved to re-instate all of the above.

[Safety_Helmut]

RLE

Good example, and there are many, many more.

The lunatics who have been running the asylum for the last few years have created this kind of madness. Short term, and often miniscule, savings in one area are praised, whilst the longer term and wider effects are either not recognised or ignored.

Witness the recent case in Barrow-in-Furness. Manager allegedly cancelled maintenance contract to save money, oh well done Missy, you've saved the council some cash. Some time later, oh bugger, we've got an oubreak of legionnaire's disease because we haven't maintained out air conditioing properly.

It's not an MoD example, but I just wonder how relevant it is ?

Safety_Helmut

[Tigs2]

Quid
The reason that aircrew were given rations is simple. It is a FACT that energy levels become much lower at certain parts of the 24 hour cycle. Blood suger levels drop, and there is a dramatic decrease in a humans ability to concentrate. The consequences of this are quite clear, its nothing to do with leadership so get of your soapbox. Most aircrew dont know why we're given mars bars and butty boxes (the herc mates dont know why they're given 10 buttyboxes per flight), it is simply to prevent a drop in blood sugar levels. Now stop using this forum as an excuse to chest poke the officer cadre over complete c**p. I was an ex ranker, you sound very bitter and twisted.

Now more seriously SAVING MONEY!
I have just saved lots of money. All of you chumsters out there that like to have personalised number plates and pay anything from £500 to £5000 for them, stop what you are doing!. You can change your name by deed poll for £10 and then have the perfect personalised registration number at a fraction of the cost. I have just done it myself.
yours sincerely
Flt Lt X294 VWP

[pr00ne]

1. Bin the idea of AOC inspections
2. Bin seperate Commands and Groups
3. Bin Aide de Camps and their like
4. This could save a fortune, apart from combat wear, bin all hats in the military.

Why do you wear hats? It stopped being regular practice in the rest of the world about 50 years ago, hoods and baseball caps have made minor inroads of late, but why do folk in the military have to wear hats?

[BigginAgain]

Proone

Why stop at hats?

1. Bin uniforms.

2. Get rid of messes - give everyone an extra £2.50 a week to find their own accommodation (call it the 'ex factor'), whilst offering up the Stn sports pitches as camping grounds for those who can't afford to live off base (then we won't need PAYD).

3. Sell all the Married Quarters to a Japanese Company (for peanuts) and then rent them back whilst agreeing to release, say, 10% of them every 2 years. Conveniently forget that this means that by 2020 there will be no Married Quarters left.

4. From now on, Dining-In Nights to be Dining-Out Nights held at Beafeater or local equivalent (for Command HQs) and McDonalds/Burger King (for Stations).

5. Instead of all the above, hold bi-monthly compulsory lectures for all personnel to be instructed on what life used to be like, thus developing Service Ethos! Or alternatively write a book about it and issue enough for one for each person to SPFSs, enabling them to completely fill their storerooms leaving no room for other expensive stuff (saving money).

6. Get rid of all those noisy, smelly flying thingies (let's face it, they are the root cause of all our expenditure!).

BA

[pr00ne]

BigginAgain,

Er, I think you'll find that your option No.3 has already been done by a certain Mr Portillo aided by Mr Soames.....................


WHY do you still wear hats?

[BigginAgain]

Proone

You don't say. I believe Nakamura Holdings (?) paid about £6K per house? I still find it hard to believe that no-one went to jail over that sell-off.

BA

[Roland Pulfrew]

prOOne

Because we can!!!

And just because society has lost most of its standards doesn't mean that we in the military should. (Surely a baseball cap is by definition a hat?)

And if we stopped wearing hats we would start to look like the US military - saluting with no hats on!! :yuk: ;)

[SteveStephens]

How about obtaining sponsorship for our uniforms, a bit like football shirts. Then we could save money and get someone like the RAC to .......................................................oops!

[vecvechookattack]

So why do aircrew get a free lunch ....they don't. RAF Aircrew get a free lunch but Navy and AAC pay for their lunch.

So, why do RAF Aircrew get free food????? why can't they pay l;ike the rest of us????

[Drygeezer]

I have got some pretty radical ideas for the goverment as a whole to save a shed load of squiddlys.

1) Sell The house of commons and all associated bulidings to the rich americans, or russian mafia tycoon that soooo love our history and move them all to a cheaper, central location in the country. Just think of the savings with not having to repair and maintain a buliding that is hundreds of years old!

2) Sell Whitehall and move all the blunties and paperclip counters to Grimsby, where I believe the standard of living is reasonable in comparision to Basra where they are happy to make everyone else live.

3) Scrap the red arrows, because they just waste fuel and steal my oxygen. To those that say getting rid of SAR would save more money, I am of the understanding that the SAR boys create more media exposure and get better public relations for actually doing a real job, instead of poncing around in red flying suits (and how much must they cost!).

4) Pip out Cherie B.

you aint seen me right:}

[vecvechookattack]

Close Predannack and Merryfield.

[akula]

Quid,
It seems you may be somewhat misinformed about the current role of RAF aircrew, who do indeed fly 7-8 hr sorties in the middle of the night, getting shot at. What can be wrong with a free doughnut we all love them:ok: :ok:

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[6Z3]

Every other year remove a 'Management' layer from each Unit and HQ/Formation, thus weeding out those layers that have evolved over the course of the previous year.

[pigsinspace]

The reason that aircrew were given rations is simple. It is a FACT that energy levels become much lower at certain parts of the 24 hour cycle. Blood suger levels drop, and there is a dramatic decrease in a humans ability to concentrate. The consequences of this are quite clear

so how about gate guards? they are on duty for at least 12 hours "LIVE ARMED" and are not even entitled to a biscuit...

so why do aircrew blood sugar levels need maintaining on the shortest of MCT's.

food prior to flight ? theres a thing!!! nah
butty box the minute they are on the aircraft...

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

It would appear the Dutch and the French are making some of the most sensible cost saving decisions at this time:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[whowhenwhy]

Remove pin from grenade.

Aircrew food to maintain blood sugar levels on overnight sorties? What about Air Traffic Controllers on overnight shifts who have to drag their huge privately purchased mid-rats in to work with them to maintain their blood sugar levels?

And throw!:ok:

[Onan the Clumsy]

How about now more tonic in the G&Ts at Whitehall? That'd be one less item to track and one less to purchase.

What ho!

[SASless]

Why not create two completely independent military forces....one for parades, inspections, and public ceremony complete with fancy uniforms, horses, etc....let the Admin wallahs have free reign over this force....

....then create the other one....no inspections, battle dress uniforms only....their only mission is to fight. Let them live in the field...practice their trade....and let them get on with the job.

[caspertheghost]

RAF Aircrew getting a free lunch? Mmmm, I love it when I'm in the middle of a planning frenzy and I can just stop the mission and go off to the mess for a Blunt Lunch, read the papers and chat with my mates for an hour before going back to work!
If you call out of date bread, crap tea and sugar a free lunch then I stand corrected, but I'd much rather pay to go to the mess for lunch each day.
When we do get the time for lunch we generally go to the feeder and grab a sandwich which we pay for before getting back to work.
Aircrew rations are for when we don't get a chance to go to the feeder or put a lunch order in. And it's only toast, so please stop whingeing about it.:rolleyes:

[pigsinspace]

Aircrew rations are for when we don't get a chance to go to the feeder or put a lunch order in. And it's only toast

I guess you are not on the Fat boy transport fleet, !!!!

[caspertheghost]

I'm afraid not, can't talk for them!

[Onan the Clumsy]

....then create the other one....no inspections, battle dress uniforms only....their only mission is to fight. Let them live in the field...practice their trade....and let them get on with the job. I think they call those "terrorists". :hmm:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"I think they call those terrorists". .....wrong :yuk: they are called proffesionals.....unlike the "ponti's and remf's" who screw up their lives with their mindless triv:}

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[SASless]

Onan,

You ever serve in combat against an armed enemy? If so, you would understand the difference between a "show" army and a "combat" army.

Shiny brass and boots doesn't cut it....some "guts" behind a bayonet works miracles. They do not have to be pretty....just well trained and dedicated to the task at hand.

[BigginAgain]

caspertheghost

I suggest you give Waddington a ring and ask for an E-3D famil flight. You will be allowed to wear your flying suit, though I suspect you may want to get the Squippers to let it out a bit first!

The first thing we were briefed on was the menu; talk about well fed! never seen anything like it.

I don't think anyone begrudges tea and toast, but guards on the gate in the depths of winter at most units get NOTHING! To be honest, it's a disgrace. Our lords and masters want JOs to exercise leadership, but I always thought looking after one's troops was where that started, yet whenever I've brought it up I get some lame response from the fat lazy caterers that there's no money for those living-in and no money or entitlement for those living-out. It makes me sick, and it's been the same at the last 3 units I've served at.

BA

[caspertheghost]

I'm aware of how much these guys get rationed for their flights, but as I understand the Sentry crews are often airborne for hour upon hour and can't just nip in to the mess for a bite to eat.
Last time I was over at the guradroom during a particularly dull Orderly Officer shift the guards were quite well fed and had gallons of tea or coffee to get through. Obviously they don't get anything other than a quick bite to eat when on the gate, but the shifts aren't that long.
Talking about the caterers, in their defence the money per head they are budgeted to feed x no. of people is an absolute pittance and I'm surprised we eat as well as we do in the mess. It's not surprising there's no money left for extras.
Regards, Casper

p.s. I might pass on the E3 flight, I enjoy flying, but not that much!

[pr00ne]

Roland Pulfrew,

What SORT of standard do you think you are maintaining by wearing a hat? Do you wear one ALL THE TIME when outdoors when you are in civvies?

Bin hats, save squillions...............................................

[Tigs2]

PIGINSPACE
please do excuse me! however like Quid i think you use this forum as another chest poking exercise for the officer cadre. Do you raelly think i can legislate in my comments for everybody???? You randomly start talking about ground grew etc in your post I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT GROUNDCREW! i was responding to a comment about aircrew and i gave a purely medical response. I do hope you have the morale courage to respond and put the balance of things correct!

[Maple 01]

I don't begrudge the aircrew food and drinks, but I do think the shifties and guards on the ground should get something too.

Being quite old I remember picking up night rats because no duty supper was available, and many amateur culinary delights were created. (Oh and we nearly burnt the crewroom down once or twice)

Then the budget holding monsters appeared (94?) and said something to the effect of 'because the Army and Navy don't do duty suppers we've decided to cut yours to bring us into line' Conveniently forgetting the Navy get fed regardless when at sea and pongos get fed about 8,000,000 calories per day in the field. And anyway why couldn't they come into line with us? I'm sure they'd be delighted

However, most camps I have had the honour to guard have had COs that have had the decency to arrange through various swindles/funds for tea and coffee and caterers that don't mind the odd loaf and accoutrements 'evaporating' from the mess

This brings me to the worst/best of my beloved Airforce. The bone-headed application of mean spirited and morale destroying rules and their subversion by wiser and more intelligent local authority. It’s just unfortunate it has to be done this way

[Onan the Clumsy]

Sorry fellas, let me take that one back if you will. The written word doesn't always convey what's meant and a casual quip can be misunderstood.

SASless and ABIW FWIW, I entirely agree with you. I've seen too many occasions in my world where the 'Format not Content' mentality won out over the 'just do it and do it well' mentality of those who actually get the job done.

[pigsinspace]

TIGS2
The reason that aircrew were given rations is simple. It is a FACT that energy levels become much lower at certain parts of the 24 hour cycle. Blood suger levels drop, and there is a dramatic decrease in a humans ability to concentrate. The consequences of this are quite clear

I responded to the above quote as someone seems to think that aircrew are the onlyones who need to concerntrate for hours on end.
Have YOU ever stood on the gate for a shift in the middle of a winters night with no food to keep "blood sugar levels up" I doubt it very much.
how about ATC spending 12 hours awake keeping the airways free from mid air collisions do they not need " high blood sugar levels"?
How about a techie at 4am after being at work 8 hours then going to fix the flying controls or ejection seat on YOUR aircraft? do they not need to be at their peak at all times on duty?
The list can go on and on All trades and jobs are as important as the next DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE ANYTHING DIFFERENT JUST BECAUSE YOU FLY THE PLANE.. You would never get airborne if it was not for the stacker providing the spares or the bowser driver brining fuel to your jet.
Think on they all need to perform to the best of their abilities at ALL times.,

[Bob Viking]

Pigs.
Agree with your last, however, techie on late shift/guard on nights/atc'er late at night can nip into the crewroom for a coffee when they need it. Blokey on an 'x' hour long mission doesn't have that luxury (I'm talking about fast jet crews now - it's what I know) and therefore must get his energy levels up before flying. But if you honestly believe that biscuits or bread are sufficient, then you are sorely mistaken. Five hours of tanking with nothing but a packet of bourbons is not a gross waste of taxpayers money IMHO. I think it's sadly lacking to be honest. If you begrudge me that then you know what.....I'll pay the money back in the morning. Might have to re-mortgage the house though.
BV

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

I always giggle at the type of post that 'pigs" and the other uninfomed twits offer in here:rolleyes:

Those of us who fly for a living accept that some of the perks that we get are "bloody marvelous" however if any one can offer a suitable alternative to inflight rations i will be more than willing to listen, but ponder the following:ok:

Friday my crew will fly to Canada, via Iceland, at an averqe cabin altitude of 8000', which will take roughly 10 Hrs 40 mins. We get airbourne mid morning chippenham and land early afternoon gander......when are we supposed to ground feed in that time:rolleyes:

Guy's, don't let the green eyed monster cloud your judgement, there is not one aircrew mate RAF wide who agree's with the no food policy for the station guard force but we dont write the rules:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[pigsinspace]

I always giggle at the type of post that 'pigs" and the other uninfomed twits offer in here

uninformed???

whatever.......

Friday my crew will fly to Canada, via Iceland, at an averqe cabin altitude of 8000', which will take roughly 10 Hrs 40 mins. We get airbourne mid morning chippenham and land early afternoon gander......when are we supposed to ground feed in that tim

therefore you know that you will be at work for 12 hours so why not buy some High energy snacks ?
like all others do if they work 12 hours?

I do not think many people begrudge a crew a hot meal if you read back to the start of the thread the argument about inflight rations started about crews getting butty boxes for the shortest of sorties ie MCT or other small tasks.


And as for ill informed ....and a twit !!!!!!!!

[BEagle]

I can see the sense in there being some form of catering provided to aircrew flying longer trips over normal meal times such as that C-130 slog to Gander mentioned earlier (11 hours - ye gods...). But quite why anyone taking off at, say, 1400 and landing at 1730 in the same time zone should be entitled to anything except a cuppa or two is beyond me.... As were the infamous MCT S1 boxes, most of which I used to leave for the groundies.

The scale of in-flight catering provided to ME aircrew does seem a bit excessive on the whole, I have to agree. But on boring 5hr transit flights to overseas night stops, I used to be quite happy with a mid-trip snack and then a proper meal at wherever we landed. But that wasn't the view of others who would happily pork out in flight to avoid using their not ungenerous subsistence allowance for the purpose intended.


Nowadays if I go somewhere on business, if I have to pay for my own meals at the time, I claim the actual cost back from the company. Typically about €15-20 for an evening meal in Germany. No complicated bluntie paperwork - just fax the receipts at the end of the month.

[C130 Techie]

On the subject of aircrew getting a free lunch, much has been made of crews not being able to get to messes due to flight planning briefing etc and also that the 'free lunch' is only toast etc.

I have nothing against aircrew, or anyone else for that matter, being properly fed but why can't they be expected to provide their own food from home in the form of a butty box the same as the rest of us do. Incidentally having been on the fat albert fleet for many years I don't recall ever seeing toast provided.

In addition why do we still provide food for passengers? Surely it is time we went over to the system that the budget airlines use. Pay as you dine.

[ORAC]

That consequence of an aircraft being lost due to the fact the crew had not eaten properly on the ground should not be they get fed for free. They get paid well enough.

Happy enough if the medics say it has to be provided in the crewroom because the aircrew aren´t bright enough to organise it on their own. Just deduct the cost from their pay..... :E

[BEagle]

When I went flying with the Americans in a B-52G years ago, I had to buy a (very good and pretty cheap) box lunch from the 'Flight Kitchen'. Seemed reasonable enough to me.

Once upon a time we even used to have a box lunch provided on the VC10 fleet if we were in the simulator over the lunch period. Actually, that's probably less unreasonable than the 1400-1730 example I mentioned earlier.

But aircrew bringing their own food for flights could prove a safety hazard; if a shift worker on the ground gives himself a touch of food poisoning it's pretty unpleasant - but if that happened to aircrew halfway across the ocean....??

PAYD for pax trips? A bureaucratic nightmare, I would have thought, and quite impractical. Selling snacks to passengers when they want them, not when the cabin staff want to feed them? Cash handling etc - you'd need an Air Admineer to sort that lot out! Plus, unlike real airlines, AT pax are ften corralled for far longer in terminals without anything much in the way of facilities, so to expect them then to pay for their in-flight meal would be pretty unpopular, I would imagine. But perhaps it might stop squaddies having fun grinding crisps into the carpets of a VC10......

But would anyone pay for the dreaded S1 box?

[Bob Viking]

There appears to be an awful lot of bitter people on this thread.
Every now and then, certain people in the military get a good deal. I personally don't think flying rations are that great a deal (I'd rather fly first class to Washington, but that's just me!).
If you want to hear about wasting money just ask blunties.
On a recent squadron det to somewhere nice in the US of A the whole squadron were put up on base in very good accommodation with excellent messing facilities provided. Everyone was given on-base rates which were perfectly adequate.
However, the deployed admin group (DAG), perhaps more aptly named the Group of Information Technology Specialists (GITS) weren't happy with this and for reasons best known to themselves booked into one of the finest hotels in town on full rates.
All this despite the fact that said group of blunties weren't exactly overly helpful in trying to help us get back a mere thirty bucks each that we were owed from a nightstop en-route to our destination.
Moral of the story: it's not just aircrew I'm afraid and if you manage to get a good deal, good on you and don't get all uppity when someone else manages to get one.
BV

[ORAC]

Many moons ago I, and a few others went on a Cope Thunder det to support the Spams during an exercise involving some UK Sqns. Our unit asked nicely if the Sqns concerned would take us on their imprest. The response was, to be polite, negative. Our admin staff therefore did all the arrangements and agreed a daily rate.

We duly arrived in theatre where we found that we were about $20 a day better off than the aircrew as we got a meal allowance whilst they eat in the canteen and the imprest paid.

The aircrew reaction? They sent a signal back to our unit complaining and requesting we be transferred to their imprest.

The response from our unit was, in turn, not sympathetic to their request........ :}

[vecvechookattack]

Can we please get away from this "aircrew get free lunch" thread as it is not correct.

RN and AAC aircrew have to pay for their own lunch OR bring in some sarnies, the same as everyone else. In fact in the RN we have to bring in our own night flying sarnies as well. (not sure if the AAC have to pay for Night Flying scran, but the RN do)

If there is a regulation somewhere that states that aircrew get free lunches can you pease point me towards it....

TY

[engineer(retard)]

Pr00ne

"What SORT of standard do you think you are maintaining by wearing a hat? Do you wear one ALL THE TIME when outdoors when you are in civvies?"

Do you have one of those grey curly wigs and a batman cloak for your job?

Regards

Retard

[ORAC]

Trying hard to remember a tale told to me by a Froggy aviator concerning their rules. I seem to recall that rations/lunch was free, but only on units with a runway or helipad. You therefore found a H painted on the roof of every FAF ministry building. Or something along those lines anyway. Probably apochryphal.....

[Bob Viking]

Vecvec.
Are you really that upset about RAF aircrew getting the odd bit of food when you don't?
You get to go to sea on a nice big grey boat and I don't. I don't think that's very fair. In fact, why do the Navy get big boats to play with when the RAF doesn't? And why do Navy officers get a free waiters outfit and we only get a bus conductors outfit?
I demand answers....
BV

[ORAC]

Yeah, and the MOD(RAF) only get a cowboy outfit....... :p

[Roland Pulfrew]

prOOne

About as professional as you are in a wig and gown, or do you work in a Hawaiian shirt and Bermuda shorts? As aircrew I am trained to uphold standards - I try to do it in my flying and in my other duties. If wearing hats (which I have to buy - so not saving so many squillions) is part of being in a uniformed profession then I am content with maintaining standards. I have no desire to lower the standards to that of modern yoof or the streets of the UK thanks!

[SASless]

Ah ha! Maintaining standards.....now by golly we know where he is headed with promotion. If it was good enough for Wellington...by God it is good enough!

To think of the accomplishment of the Spec Ops guys in Afghanistan....non-issue baseball caps, local garb, riding horses, and winning wars. Cheeky Sods!

Kinda goes the point about "Parade Field" armies versus "Combat" armies me thinks.

[engineer(retard)]

US Marines seem to have fanny magnet uniforms :cool:

[SASless]

It is what is inside that uniform that draws the fanny....the uniform is mere advertising.

[engineer(retard)]

Aaah the stimulating conversation then

[Roland Pulfrew]

SADless

Or is it the brain power within the uniform...........;)

And as I am not, currently, deployed overseas but am employed within the UK I see no reason why I should not maintain standards rather than drop them. At no point did I comment on spec ops in baseball hats, nor for that matter any of the UK troops deployed in Iraq who started patrolling in regimental headgear not 'tin' hats as part of the hearts and minds ops! Different horses for different courses old son, not blind dogma!:E

[BEagle]

We had a USMC back seater at the F4 OCU when I did the course many years ago. Great chap. But what a variety of uniforms he wore - anything from green zoom bag to combat fatigues to what my colleagues rudely termed "That Glenn Miller $hit". Well, they were fighter mates!

I remain to be convinced about hats. One of the last ones I bought (to replace the tatty one which the boss Pete G fed to GH's labrador) cost over £80. However, when that became too worn out I bought one from stores - it cost £12. I'm sure they got the price wrong, but they insisted they were correct.

SD caps are OK, forage caps less so. But berets - OK for onion selling cheese-eating surrender monkeys, but hardly an officer's headwear! Err, except those sand coloured jobs the SAS wear, of course. Very smart you look in them, dear Hereford Hooligans!

I vote for one of those 'Gert Frobe' Prussian helmets with a spike on the top for you, Roly - and a General Patton style chrome-plated coal scuttle for you, SASless! ;)

[SASless]

I lean towards the boonie hat style headgear myself....found myself on the carpet more than a few times for not wearing the old style steel pot. The only thing it was good for was boiling water, acting as a bucket, or an impromptu entrenching too. I reckon in close combat one could beat an opponent to death with the thing as well.

Chrome doesn't work....draws attention of those I would wish to avoid. Patton never had a chrome one....just a highly polished helmet liner which he wore in lieu of the steel pot. He also required his troops to wear neckties in combat during the North African campaigns.

The shape of the thing was perfectly designed by the Army so that the rain water dripping off the rear of it....fell squarely down your neck and was so heavy that it would shorten your stance by a few inches over time.....and had a chin strap that was utterly useless thus it was left undone....and then required one hand to hold the thing onto your noggin if you moved faster than a slow walk.

Don't you just love the US Army in their nice pretty Black Berets....cooks, bakers, truck mechanics.....everyone in the whole organization. What a farce.....ask any Ranger what he thinks of the deal? Used to be....one had to earn the beret....Airborne (Maroon), Rangers (Black), and Special Forces (Green). Now it is initial issue for all.

[airborne_artist]

But berets - OK for onion selling cheese-eating surrender monkeys, but hardly an officer's headwear! Err, except those sand coloured jobs the SAS wear, of course. Very smart you look in them, dear Hereford Hooligans!

It is a well-known fact that all officers, of any service, look foolish in a beret. They just have no idea how to select, steam and mould a beret, and are incapable of putting it on the head in the correct fashion.

NCOs, on the other hand, particularly in the services where the beret's colour has been earned (sandy/maroon/green), always look very smart in a beret, and the more senior an NCO is, the smarter they look.

I speak as one who started off as a baby officer (and looking like a tw@t in a beret), and on changing service, sensibly dropped into the ranks ...

[tonkatechie]

Prior to going OOA, got told to change my dog tags for the *quote* 'new style' tag. Filled in forms, waited ages only to receive something very similar to the original article via PSF. The difference? No 'RAF' stamped on the bottom. Perhaps this is some new "conduct after capture, don't tell 'em who you work for" thing.... Next port of call before heading off is clothing stores, get given another set of soldier 95, only this time get told to have the new patches stiched on. Bloody great "ROYAL AIR FORCE" badge. When questioned what it's all about, the (civvy) storeman replies "It's so the pongos know what service you are". I suppose the blue beret (stuffed into trouser pocket), RAF cap badge, and blue rank slides weren't enough of a give away. That and a total disregard for the officer classes of other services, refering to everyone as 'mate'!
Good waste of money that, the next thing you'll be telling me is they're changing the F1250 for some generic clubcard......:confused:

[DuckDodgers]

Well even if they don't guess by your rank they will know by your service number....

[SASless]

Name, rank, service number and date of birth.....combined with a Google or Yahoo search...and you are busted!

[pr00ne]

engineer(retard),

Certainly do old chap, loved it at first, now think its daft and needs to be consigned to the waste bin and history.
Not worn all the time though, if a Judge removes their wig then out of deference a Barrister is supposed to remove theirs, as we should never be seen to be superior. I also don't wear it when popping out for a sandwhich................

Roland Pulfrew,

The hat, or wig of a Barrister is actually a hang over from very old fashioned ideas of what is fashionable and chic, although it was the silk robes worn at the time of the mourning of the death of Queen Mary which was seized upon by the leaders of the Bar to establish a recognized “uniform.”

Still don’t see what it has to do with maintaining standards in the 21st century.

The case someone else makes about infantry wearing soft hats to defuse tension in places like Basrah etc is a good case in point where a non combat hat DOES indeed have a role to play.