i need a job

[bigbenmurphy]

Hello everyone,

ive just been chopped by NATS at the end of Area 2 (pleasant experience i'm sure you can imagine), and after drinking myself senseless for the last week, its time for me to sort myself out.

Basically i was hoping for any advice or tips anyone out there could give me regarding Aerodromes with vacancies for someone with an unvalidated tower rating - i.e. me. i really want to use my rating and control somewhere otherwise the last 2 or 3 years will have been a bit of a waste.

I would need to do an APC, which is not a problem, and having relocated to the south of England from Scotland for 2 years, location is no problem for me. Beggars cant be choosers and all that. I'd just like to settle in one place and get a bit of stability in my life. No more Boscombe B&Bs for starters!

i'd really appreciate any tip-offs or recommendations anyone could make as to where i might be able to seek work to make use of my rating, as i really dont have any starting point at the minute.

Sorry if there have been a lot of threads like this, but its the first time ive been in this position.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

BBM

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<after drinking myself senseless for the last week>>

Hmmm.. you DO have a serious problem.

[Carbide Finger]

Try Filton, sounds like they're really having some fun up there!

Seriously though; have a look in the back of Flight, they usually have the vacancies in there. Alternatively, just write to the SATCOs at airfields; don't ask, dont get.

Best of Luck.

CF

[Gisajob]

Whatever you do, don’t follow Carbide Finger’s advice and write to every SATCO. Your letter will probably go into File 13 (wastepaper bin) along with all the others but of more importance is that you will saddle yourself with the title of desperate wannabe. The SATCO will know that you have contacted every other SATCO in the world and will also know that you therefore have no loyalty to his/her airport. Thus when he/she has spent the training budget on you and when you are qualified you will fly away to an area where you want to live.

Now sit down, think and plan your actions. Don’t act spontaneously; give actions considerable thought and planning.

You will only get a job with your unvalidated ADC rating if you can convince a SATCO that:

1. You are worth him/her spending time and money on you.
2. You will stay at his/her airport for 5-10 years thus repaying the investment.
3. You are prepared, maybe, to part sponsor your next rating course.
4. You will be an asset to his/her team.
5. You will certainly pass your validations at first attempt.

Not easy eh ?

Your other options are to apply for assistant’s positions with a view to validating your rating in off watch time. Then the SATCO may offer you the next ATCO post with another rating course. You could join the RAF/RN as an ATCO. You could pay for an APC or APR course at ASTAC and take a chance on getting a job with two unvalidated ratings (risky but you are more employable than a pure ADC rated ATCO).

If you do wish to contact an airport do not send a round robin letter. Find out the SATCOs name and background, do some research. Call him/her and ask to meet for an appraisal and some advice. Have the reasons ready why he/she should even consider you. (Living and coming from the local area is a big plus).

You are one of many in the same predicament and some have made it from your position to become fully qualified ATCOs so don’t give up.

Good Luck

Gisajob

[Carbide Finger]

Gisa,

I didn't say that BBM should write to every SATCO. I will, however, bow to the better knowledge.

BBM,

What ever happens, good luck. I have seen friends chopped at the end of the Area course, and most of them then validated before me at an airfield!

CF

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Well I DID write to every airfield in the UK. With only 2 GCE "O" levels it was the only chance I stood. I received two offers of employment. The one I took up led the way to IAL.... and when we returned to the UK the experience gained there got me into "The Ministry" and 31 years as a Heathrow ATCO.

Try ANYTHING, but lay off the booze!

[Gisajob]

HD

Back in the 70s it was a very different job market.

Today it is important that job seekers do not spoil their chances by appearing desperate.

Softly softly catchey monkey !!

You really must not encourage BBM to go down the route which you took in 1970, those tactics are 30 years out of date. SATCOs are much more sophisticated now and are more aware of financial constraints. However they are also ATCOs at heart and will normally work hard to help aspiring ATCOs enter the profession.

So BBM don’t spoil your chances by flooding the marketplace with letters. Be selective.

Gisajob

[cdb]

Change of subject Gisajob, but what do you think about my question (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176859)? When was the last time that Wycombe paid for a tower rating - I assume you're at Wycombe?

[Dizzee Rascal]

You could pay for an APC or APR course at ASTAC

Or you could even pay for your own APP or APS ratings at the BAE Systems Training College (formerly known as AMS/Dundridge).

;) ;)

[ILS 119.5]

I know a guy who needs a job fully qualified with TWR, APC & APR Ratings. 15 years experience. How on earth, if he cannot get a job, will you?

[siam]

check your pm's let me know how you get on

[Zam]

I know that im probably incredibly naive, but why do people get 'chopped' when there is a self proclaimed shortage of people in the profession? Especially giving that i have just read through a post about some 50% of college students dropping out or failing there course at Bournemouth?

[RAC/OPS]

Bigben, don't be put off by unhelpful comments like "I know such and such who has all the ratings and still can't get a job..."

In ATC and I'm sure a lot of professions, it's very much a case of if your face fits too. At my unit we have recently taken a tower only person, similar situation to yourself over someone with all the ratings.

Good luck mate, I'm sure you will get there.

[coolbeans]

"I know a guy who needs a job fully qualified with TWR, APC & APR Ratings. 15 years experience. How on earth, if he cannot get a job, will you?"

Hyup ILS119.5 thats right, lets keep a positive mental attitude and give this guys the support he deserves.

[Gisajob]

ILS 119.5

If you really know someone with those ratings who is seeking a job, then tell him to contact me. You wouldn't fib would you ?

I have a job for him. I actually have two vacancies for ATCOs.

See the website www.safeskys.co.uk


Page 3 - Stop Press & Jobs



Gisajob

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

ZAM wrote: <<I know that im probably incredibly naive, but why do people get 'chopped' when there is a self proclaimed shortage of people in the profession?>>

Simple. People get "chopped" because they cannot do the job! ATC is a skilled job and, despite all the lead-up training, one does not know if a particular individual will be able to do the job until he/she starts live training. The ATC Licence, Ratings and Validations are all standards which have to be achieved with a high pass mark and to become fully operational the controller has to achieve all three. If he/she doesn't - "chop"!

Do note that although a controller may fail to reach validation standard at a particular unit or position he may well go on to validate elsewhere so a high failure rate at one unit does not necessarily mean that the talent will be wasted.

[Nick Falzone]

am guessing you're still a nats employee

go to the vacancy notices on the nats net

in a desparate attempt to cover up how short NATS has let itself become of tower controllers (although they insist they will have a surplus by 2007, 21 destinations my ass) they are now politely begging all the people they chopped from the college in the last god knows how many years, but who passed the ADC course to apply for for tower jobs.

its classic NATS , we've been saving non NATS units millions over the years by chopping people off area and approach (sometimes because a handful of instructors who still can't validate, hide behind a clipboard at the college, and deal out the partlies unfairly to those with the least perfume on), and letting them go.

now the red barron and his disciples know they're in the ****.

and thats why you should be in luck, and valid by xmas.

NATSNET, EMPLOYEE NOTICES, VNs, job's a good 'un.

[Jerricho]

if he cannot get a job

Maybe he needs to pay for your little course. You could give him mate's rates.

[stillin1]

Possibly in your "local":p

[qcode]

Possibly in your "local"

What does that mean. Another total load of garbage from stillin1.

[cdb]

So trainees always get chopped becuase they aren't up to the job, do they? Not because the college/unit gave them a training plan with 200 hours in, and tough luck if the trainee needed 210? Or was the system perfect at LL/TC when you worked there?

Get real, trainees are screwed more often by the system (especially at the college), or occasionally because their OJTI disliked them, than they are not capable of doing the job. A particular NATS mentality that many controllers dislike, but seem to accept.

So, back to the original question - any more jobs for the guy?

[Jerricho]

What does that mean. Another total load of garbage from stillin1.

Hahaahhahaa................

I like the bit where qcode tries to make stillin1 his bitch, and fails dismally.

[Standard Noise]

"Simple. People get chopped because they cannot do the job!"
mmmm, I wonder if my ATSM knows I can't do the job then? Or in fact either of the other two ATSM's who employed me between "leaving" NATS, and arriving here at Brizzel a few years ago?:confused:

It's not all as cut and dried as you retired guys like to think. As a mate of mine at Cardiff would agree, having been chopped back in '93 and now working for NATS.

I expected a more considered answer from one such as yourself HD .