BA new joiner, which fleet?

[Speedrock]

Hi all,

I'm a new Pruner, just wonderin'...I'm about to go for interview assessment with BA, does anyone out there know if new joiners are allowed to go straight onto the 777 fleet or do you have to "serve time" on 737 (my current type) or Airbus.

Also, if there is a min. requirement for LH does anyone know what this is?

Cheers

Speedrock

[The Greaser]

There are other threads covering this - do a search. However if you have greater than 2000 hours, including 1000 hours on multicrew aircraft >25T MTOW then I think you have a good chance of 777. Other wise Airbus or 737. Command is based on seniority - 15-20 years is the latest estimate.

[apaddyinuk]

I flew with a new FO last week who went str8 to the 777 but I do know a lot are going to the Airbus!

[Speedrock]

Thanks fellas for reply, as suspected.

[expedite_climb]

~50:50 A320 versus 777, however they are crying out for people qualified as Greaser says - so if you have that then expect 777.

p.s. Its great!

[flyA380]

I have over 5000hrs, of which 4000 on multi-engine jet, and was offered a seat (the righthand one;) ) on the 777.

:cool:

[frangatang]

Knock on virgins door,happier mob,prettier girls who are not asleep in your bunks( cos you will be doing nothing but 2 crew 5 times a month across the pond and cant use them).

[The Greaser]

Yes but after 2 applications and over 18months I have not heard a peep from Virgin (very rude in my opinion) - BA called me within 2 weeks and offered me 777 within 6 weeks.

[Big Kahuna Burger]

Thats because BA is bloody desperate due to the fact that everyone can see that there is no point in joining an unhappy company and sitting at the bottom of the list for 8 years (which screws any social life)

[Shuttleworth]

BKB is absolutely right.
Please think about it .
Which job will really work out best ? Which employer has 26 new widebody a/c arriving soon? Which job is most desirable? ( don't just think about who replied fastest.) Think!!!!!

Do your bloody research you only have one life.

[expedite_climb]

BKB - "sitting at the bottom of the list for 8 years"

Might have been in the past, but not for those joining now. Those that have been in 4 months are already 100 places off the bottom, and ~40 on their fleets!

[Big Kahuna Burger]

Hmm.

The shine will soon start to wear off expidite climb.

Im 35% up a fleet list and still work every weekend possible

And now I have to not answer my phone 5 times a day as the companies trying to get hold of me and contracturally force me to come to work....

Heard about the ba pilot in scotland on her days off recently.... phonecall saying your 'force drafted' get your arse down to LHR pronto or you will ba answering to management.


It c**p

Stay where your are or go to Virgin.

[MrBernoulli]

Big Kahuna Burger

Why don't you jump for Virgin then? You don't sound very happy.

[MrBernoulli]

TOO LATE:uhoh:

I start VERY soon. But I am comfortable with my decision. Where I have come from could be really sh1te for a lot of the time.

[BYMONEK]

Force drafted! Doesn't that mean.............mega bucks. She could have bought a second house for that. Nearer to LHR perhaps:p

[Human Factor]

Force drafted! Doesn't that mean.............mega bucks.

Er...no. Don't get me wrong, it's a good few quid extra but no more than normal (volunteer) draft. How much is an important day off (think wedding, wife's birthday, Cup Final) worth to you?

[Shuttleworth]

Force drafted! Doesn't that mean.............mega bucks. She could have bought a second house for that. Nearer to LHR perhaps

Precise figures are; minimum payment per day 4.5 hrs payable, draft element is 1.5 of that . For a new joiner, it's probably £250 gross, £150 nett.

In other words totally ****.

You couldn't get a cleaner or labourer to work for £150 a day - Well not in my area. BUT BA, expect a First officer to rush in and help out for exactly that!

The outcome, is that it creates a LOT of bad feeling.

As has been mentioned above - in previous years it used to be a reasonable sum , especially for long haul guys - but now it's a real problem for new joiners.

Be aware
(i) It IS PART of your contractural obligations, saying no will lead immediately to a nasty call from a manager and a threat of suspension. ( do your really need the hassle?)
(ii) Thanks to the lack of foresight of BA managers there is an ACUTE pilot shortage at the moment. ( they mistakenly thought type rated 777 and A320 pilots would beat a path to their door when recruitment started a bout 7 months ago.)
There is a lot of force draft around. This week several flights were cancelled due to an Airbus pilot shortage. This shortage and lack of planning from arrogant pompous managers has a big impact on our passengers.
Sadly, BA can no longer attract applicants. Apparently Air Lingus have a surplus of pilots who will be flying for BA ( on loan ) later this year.
(iii) They (Flight managers) WILL use dirty tricks to get hold of you. For example they have been known to leave a voice mailasking you to ask you to call a duty manager . ( Ie not the usual current ops ) When you call in , BANG , you get force drafted.
(iv) It affects junior guys more than senior pilots because they start from the bottom of the list.
(v) If you join BA this will affect you . Excuses such as Weddings, Christenings, Birthday dinners, Concert tickets are of no use . BA only see things from their point of view.
(vi) As a junior guy remember that BA has a preference bidding system, You will already be working every weekend. If you do get a weekend off then get drafted ( drafting is most common on weekends) you will be mightily upset!

[MrBernoulli]

Where I came from there was no such thing as a weekend. 24/7 ops as required. None of us likes to work if we think we have time off but I think your tolerance zone is based on what you have been brought up with; what you are used to.

I still feel that a lot of posters in theses pages have led cushy lives. Professional lives are going to get harder, lads and lasses. That is the hard economic truth. Stop thinking that your life is going to get cushier the longer you are on a fleet; you are not going to match the lifestyle (money and time) of those that are substantially up the ladder from you. As soon as you deal with that the sooner you can get on with life instead of fretting about how many weekends you haven't had off.

[Shuttleworth]

Mr B .
All airlines, at times, expect you to work on a day off. Some pay fair compensation , others don't . In all cases you can decline if you choose.

The difference is; at BA YOU ARE CONTRACTURALLY BOUND TO WORK if req'd.

You also wrote...
get on with life instead of fretting about how many weekends you haven't had off.

Well, lets wait till you have children and see how you feel . Please email me after you have done a year or two at BA. Perhaps by then, you will have removed the rose coloured spectacles. You will be through the honeymoon period and we'll see how you are coping then!

[MrBernoulli]

Shuttleworth

I'm still not convinced. I am past 40 years, no intention of having kids and reasonably happy with my lot. Also very pleased to have a job with BA.

Yeah, I'll be working hard but I've done plenty of that in my 'previous' lives. I am not likely to be asked to sleep in a tent in the desert, either. I am done with that nonsense.

[flyA380]

I read on quite some posts that BA rosters tend to be rock solid. Once you have a roster, it normally does not change, right?

Well, this pilot shortage (it's real: I know a BA guy at my airport and they regularly have to cancel flights due crew shortage indeed) is only TEMPORARY. They are training at full speed, so within a good year the situation should be resolved and back to normal. ;) So let's not get our mood down too much.

About this force drafting thing: I just signed my contract and am wondering where it is stated that on an assigned day off, they can force me to work. I could understand they can ask - and like in my previous company I'd help where I can - but isn't it always possible to refuse if you are unable to do it? Isn't BALPA there to watch this?

:) cheerful greetz

[Carnage Matey!]

They are training at full speed, but they didn't recruit for three years and they're not going to make up the slack in 12 months. The requirement to accept Draft Assign is in Bidline Rules (BLR). You will need to track down a personal copy when you join. Thats the 'Agreement' to which your contract refers, and by signing the contract you agree to the terms of BLR. It is not possible to refuse it unless you want to be suspended. If you're going to LGW then disregard the above as BLRs don't apply there.

[wiggy]

Hi again fly380

Your mate mentions BA regularly cancelling flights due to crew shortage, which could ( and certainly did ) up until recently mean a shortage of Cabin Crew. The current clamour here is about an apparent shortage of pilots - which is something new.

Rosters (apart from reserve, which we have already "discussed" elsewhere) are generally very stable. However "Forced Draft" can happen to anyone, out of the blue and as far as I am aware at present you have no choice but to accept.

Rgds

PS sorry for any typos, I'm still giggling at Carnage M's repost in another thread.

[Mick Stemetaphor]

Hi,

Anyone out there due to start with BA 777 in Oct?

[CarbHeatIn]

Apparently Air Lingus have a surplus of pilots who will be flying for BA ( on loan ) later this year.
''
I wonder how true this is? There is supposedly a pilot shortage looming at EI also.

I understand that in the last couple of years EI have been offering periods of ''Leave of Absence''; with some guys going off to HKG and a couple going to BA.

[trietwentie]

Maybe we should try to get this thread back to where Speedrock started it.
Don't know about anybody else but I am quite interested to see who got what fleet and whether LH for over 2000hrs/ SH for under 2000hrs is consistently followed.

Can any of the BA SH or LH DEPs give any details ?

Cheers !

[Private jet]

Hypothetically speaking (as I don't fly for BA) I'm just interested to know what if i went down to my local for a couple of lagers (or several!) one lunchtime on a day off, which I presume I would be entitled to do as its not standby duty, how can they force draft you then?

[normal_nigel]

You couldn't fly.

However, they usually draft you at least 24 hours before.

[Human Factor]

Apparently Air Lingus have a surplus of pilots who will be flying for BA ( on loan ) later this year.

Not any more. BA are just going to have to recruit the correct number of pilots. If the surplus Aer Lingus guys and gals want to apply for BA anyway (the same way as everyone else), they're more than welcome.

[normal_nigel]

HF

Correct.

No Aer Lingus on the horizon.

It was rejected by BALPA anyway.

[flylite]

On days off:

Why don't you guys just get caller display? You could also turn off your answer phones and ignore numbers you aren't familiar with.

How about having a seperate land line or mobile phone which the company does not know about?

I was in a similar situation with my previous company and ended up doing these things. It works;)

Mind you, if they ask during a duty period prior to a day off......................:(

[Human Factor]

Mind you, if they ask during a duty period prior to a day off......................

They're starting to, even on longhaul because people are refusing to answer the phone - and they don't ask, they tell.

[Big Kahuna Burger]

Certain managers are meeting pilots at the bottom of the aicraft steps to inform them that they are Force Drafted for the next day. This is regardless of the fact that they might have been on a day off, have child care arrangements, long awaited hospital appointment, or even, god forbid - a life outside of work.

Its a shameful situation BA management have got themselves into. Many pilots now dont take any calls from the company whatsoever.
:yuk: