Bali Verdict

[qfcsm]

Guess we are all in shock over the Bali verdict for Shapelle Corby.

Some say it was expected but just the same it strikes a raw nerve with most that an innocent visit to a popular tourist destination can land you 20 years in jail.

While there is little I can do to help prove Shapell's innocence I can do something. And I urge others to do the same.

I will never go back to Indonesia and will refuse any trip that I am rostered to do that has a layover in Indonesia (I will be sick with worry).

And I have just advised my family under no circumstances are they to visit Indonesia - no matter how cheap.

Also, on every occasion posssible I will advise passengers on my flights not to visit Indonesia for fear of the same fate.

This will be my way of helping and protest at this gross injustice.

Please do not participate in this thread if you wish to say Shapelle is guilty. It's not about that. It's about the risk you take on entering Indonesia.

[lowerlobe]

Exactly,your hold stowed bag has been out of your control for a number of hours and then something like this can happen to you.

[rodwalloper]

I agree. It is very risky to enter Indonesia with 4kg plus of marijuana stuffed in one's boogie board bag.

[fourplay]

Firstly I would like to say thanks to QFCSM for starting this thread.
And PLEASE take note of the red print in the initial post.

I have been following Schapelles very tragic circumstances and feel deeply moved by her plight.

I support the stance you have taken QFCSM and hope never to have to fly into Indonesia on a tour of duty myself.

A barbaric backward country that will never amount to anything I am sorry to say.
God help that poor girl, my prayers are with her.

[gigs]

here here well said all,no more surfing trips to indo for me///it just seems way to unsafe. gigs

[I Just Want To Fly]

I believe she is innocent, but do I KNOW that for a FACT?
NO! All I can go on is the media.

Everyone is entitled to their oppinion, and to voice their oppinions, after all that is what this message board is for, and that is the way the "free' world should be. What is important is that we do not force your views on others.

I lived in Indonesia for 8 years, so am fully aware of how corrupt, and backward the country is. There is a strong resentment towards Australia and other Western countries for what it believes to be interfereing in their local affairs.

Everything I know about the Corby case is purely what has been portrayed in the Australian Media, which in some cases was extremely emotive, and although it gained the support of the Australian public, I believe it actually did more harm than good. I can assure you the judges saw most of the Australian media broadcasts.

Even if Shapelle is innocent, which I believe she is, we can't boycot Bali. I mean I believe she is innocent, but do I KNOW that for a FACT? NO! All I can go on is the media.

It is not the friendly Balinese people who sell handy crafts and white water rafting tours; the young and underpaid workers who serve delicious satay chicken and nasi goreng for less wages per month than most of us make in a day; the same people whose lives soley depend on the tourist trade, and are still trying to recover from the aftermath of the Bali bombing.......... but rather Supreme Court of the Republic of Indonesia who has tried and convicted her. Bali is unfortunately unlucky enough to be a part that damn country. If they had a choice, they would much prefer to be independant.

I am a travel agent, and I will continue to recommend Bali as a great value for money holiday destination.

Any notion of trying to persuade passengers on flights is extremely unprofessionel, and personally if a customer service manager on a flight tried to impose his/her poltical belief on me I would be outraged, and make a complaint.

I look forward to the replies... but please read my first sentence.

[gigs]

again well said. im not a pot head but only drink.i love surfing in indo.i as a f/a would not impart my political beliefs on pax.im not going to bali any time soon because because, of the bombing ,drugs case and corruption, not my first sentence but my last, do i know its safe for a fact!!!!????????????

[smile]

As an Australian I am also very disapointed with the little amount of support Schapelle got from the Australian government. (I do admit that my judgment does come from what I have seen in media reports). The "token" gesture of the letter at the end of the trial did nothing to help her case, as the judge said in the verdict, and other than some financial support and list of lawyers to choose from the Aussie govt have really tried to stay out of the whole case.

You see on the news different politicians saying that we need to respect the legal system of other countries blah blah blah. Hello.... should not our politicians play politics. Use the strength, wealth etc of our country and give the Indonesian president no other choice but to offer a pardon.

IMHO once you set foot off Aussie soil your government will not support you.

[GalleyHag]

I am just disgusted that this girl gets 20 years and Abu Bakar Bashir ges 3 odd years for conspiring to murder so many innocent Australians. Yeah thats justice!!

[qfcsm]

Thank you "I just want to fly" for your balanced post.

Firstly let me say I do feel sorry for the many Balinese folks who are the end result of any backlash.

Having said that, perhaps they are the very key to challenging the local bureaucracy to a more balanced legal system that would see this scenario differently.

Considering the events just unfolding, I would ask you as a travel agent to at least advise your customers of the dangers that exist in travelling to these destinations.

Let’s get one thing clear, whether Shapelle is innocent or not:
“The fact is clear that if you are in possession, you have little, if not any defence from prosecution. Even if you had no idea how the possession came to be.”

And the local CSI team are probably not going to be of much help!!!!

The point I am trying to make here is that if you are found with something in your possession that may have been planted, for what ever reason, you will wear it – THAT IS DANGEROUS!

I restate my point that I will advise others to avoid Indonesia at all costs. If that is unprofessional and you wish to make a complaint - go right ahead. But how that is political is lost on me.


.

[Wonderworld]

I guess those of you not going to Indonesia will also drop HNL LAX and JFK off your radar. After all there is still an Australian locked up under very dodgy circumstances in Cuba.
But he isnt young and pretty is he?
I think an awful lot of people have been sucked in big time by the media circus. I dont know if she is guilty or innocent and nor does anyone who wasnt in court every day or standing along side this girl when she arrived in Bali. However she has been judged rightly or wrongly by the applicable justice system. Because you dont happen to agree with it I think it is very short sighted to start imposing punishment on the innocent people who live there by not travelling there and supporting them.

[cartexchange]

I agree wonderworld.

the emotion the emotion, OMG, there are 140 Australian citizens in jails around the world for drug trafficking.

The media have really outdone themselves this time.

Why hurt the Indonesian people, they arent the to blame.

Its so ignorant to say "boycott Indonesia",

If you want to vent your anger on someone, then channel 9 is as guilty as hell.

Boycott their programs

[tinpis]

I am just disgusted that this girl gets 20 years and Abu Bakar Bashir ges 3 odd years for conspiring to murder so many innocent Australians. Yeah thats justice!!

And if that girl had access to Bashirs legal team she would most probably be home now.

[assymetric]

lets see if the aussie govt assistance helps her defence during the appeal.

Good Luck Shapelle :ok:

[etihadlad]

Based on QFCSM's theory - then should people avoid using Qantas flights ??? - After all, the baggage handlers have come under scrutiny through all this....!!!???

Have there not been B/handlers' stood down and sacked as a result of inappropriate behaviour ?????

Anyone remember reports about Camels' heads on tarmacs??????:\ :ugh:

"People in glass houses.........." You know how it finishes.


I too, agree with IJWTF's comments earlier - u can't punish the balinese people for all this. They are just as innocent as Schapelle may be....It is an unfortunate state of affairs - but it is not all over yet.

[Engineer]

If you are set on defending this person would be nice if you spelt her name right :(

Schapelle

or maybe you are just using her case as a vehicle to air a grievance about the Indonesian system

[SydGirl]

Did you know that you can now request to have your check in baggage "wrapped"??

They wrap up your bag/s in lots and lots of clingwrap so it's easy to tell whether it has been tampered with.

It also takes about half an hour to "unwrap" it.

SG
:}

[I Just Want To Fly]

QFCSM
"I restate my point that I will advise others to avoid Indonesia at all costs. If that is unprofessional and you wish to make a complaint - go right ahead. But how that is political is lost on me."

I commend you for your passion and strong beliefs, but this is essentially political. We are talking about the Indonesian judicial system, and our governemts lack of action.

Smile
"Use the strength, wealth etc of our country and give the Indonesian president no other choice but to offer a pardon."

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes matters worse. They are an independant country. We cannot force them to do anything, unless we feel that it violates international law. And then we have to take it up with the UN. Do we really want to become another USA, throwing our weight around whenever we want something to go our way?

I strongly believe that the Oz govt should have done a lot more. But that should have been in the form of consular and legal assistance, perhaps helping to fund a more experienced legal team.

[west coast girl]

the whole affair is indeed a tragedy - but at least this time it was the baggage handler rather than the butler who done it.....

seriously though -pre- emptive strikes by Australia on the sovereignty of another country's legal system is unacceptable..and really -if schapelle had of been a big fat bush pig -instead of a bit of a glam would there really have been this much interest -viv-a-vis -media interest ? Australia's media is dominated by blokes - schapelle provided a free junket to bali for the male journos and a bit of a perv- nothing more.
if she was ugly -this story would not have run..its a cruel world and the beautiful always seem to fare better.

[Mr Toad]

Sorry to hear about Ms Corby's problem in Bali; and greatly heartened to hear the Australian PM's public sympathy for her.

However if the Australian Government had taken steps to ensure first class representation for her in the first case it might have turned out better and there would be no need for Howard's embarrassing hand-wringing after the verdict.

I suggest a better course of action would have been for the Australian police to have taken apart the airside route of her checked baggage and everybody who could have touched it in Australia. Armed with the weight of the checked baggage on initial departure (from the airline records) police could weigh her baggage as turned over by Bali police (they MUST still have it as evidence). if there's a 4kg discrepancy she's not guilty and an appeal can be launched by a good lawyer with some hope of success. These theives have made it a habit to use unsuspecting passengers and MUST be punished.

Got to say that in Asia to carry drugs is usually punishable with the death penalty; mercifully not in this case. But PLEASE all of you who have youngsters wanting to travel, make sure they understand the importance of personal security and have baggage which is difficult to interfere with - particularly the dangers of the Australian backpack and handbags/mobiles. There is no such thing as "mates" when it comes to baggage.

Don't curse the ordinary Indonesian; his life is difficult enough as it is and yours in Australia is immensely more privileged. Those of you involved in tsunami relief will know this. And please don't disengage from Indonesia either; just try to understand them a bit. It may turn out that the blame for this sad affair lies back in Australia, not in Indonesia.

[cartexchange]

To all those folks that want to support Ms Corby, put action into your words, why dont you give your travel beneficiary to the family, Well ! they can then travel and see her whenever they want!.

[Bigscotdaddy]

That was an extremely intelligent suggestion from Mr Toad and one wonders why that action was not taken earlier (or maybe it was?)

It's the same in the UK. As soon as a UK (or Australian) citizen is arrested for some crime in a third world country the automatic assumpion of the Press and public seems to be that they are automatically innocent!

Can the Aussies on this site confirm that they expect the Australian Govt (and Taxpayer) to fund first class, expensive, lawyers for the defence of every one of their Citizens who is charged with a serious offence overseas?

I doubt it.

Maybe the girl is innocent. Whatever, it's still a pretty ott sentence by any country's standards.

[ozangel]

Mr Toad... A good thought, but not necessarily possible wrt the weight issue.

My experience with checkin, you generally enter the number of bags and a combined weight of all her luggage.

e.g. 03/045 = 3 bags, combined total weight of 45kg.

So, unless she went with just a boogie board, theres not much hope of getting any accuracy out of it.. You would also have to assume the scales at the check in counter were properly reset to zero, and that the adding up skills of the person checking in or the bodgy calculator attached to the scales was being used correctly... Know of one girl who mistakenly put in 4 bags with a total combined weight of over 900kg.

I dont think shes that pretty - and I dont just think she should be given more attention. I think that any aussie in a prison overseas, ESPECIALLY those facing life sentences or death, should be given more support. While i think CH9 did the wrong thing morally, Im glad it has brought to light the issues faced by people in such positions.

I respect the laws of other countries, and yes, the govt does advertise to make travellers aware eg smarttraveller.gov.au - but I still think more support should be given.

I hope schapelle gets home - I feel for her, so many lost opportunities in life - and now she faces 20 years of hell.

I will support however i can - and as wrong as the boycott is, I am going to support it. Also, bashirs 3 years - a complete joke - one rule for one and another for everyone else.

[Hawk]

However if the Australian Government had taken steps to ensure first class representation for her in the first case it might have turned out better and there would be no need for Howard's embarrassing hand-wringing after the verdict.

The Australian government offered two QCs last March, both experienced in Indonesian courts. Ms Coby's legal team rejected the offer.

[Jeff Stryker]

i watched from far away the verdict beaing read out. i almost cried and broke down just because i watched the surroundings of the court room and it brought back so many memories of the bali bombings.
a few people have said "but what about the poor balinese who earn so little'...but what about the poor us. yes, you and me who travel to indonesia.

i just want to say that i will be staying away and will from now on advise all australians to stay away from bali and indonesia.
why go on about those poor balinese when its us who suffer. after the bali bombings, people said we should not punish inoccent balinese and return there. the hard reality is its all driven by money.
well, im not going to punish anyone, but i want to look after myself and urge other felllow aussies to put yourself first now and do the same.
if the poor balinese are suffering then their society should do more to protect their own.
is there any social security in indonesia? the answer is no.
under islam there is a system of helping the needy called zakat. the income earners are supposed to donate a percentage of their salary to help the poor. yes bali is hindu - but its still part of indonesia.
seems to me that western countries with a dole system are more geared to helping the needy.
my point is dont feel guilty that you may harm the indo tourist industry if you now make a point of never going there again and tell your friends the same.

[Flying_Sarah747]

All I have to say is that I will NEVER set foot on Indonesian soil again. Totally disgusted. They never even heard her case properly, the judges had their minds made up and it didn't matter what evidence they had to prove that she didn't do it.

They've ruined a young girls life, just taken it away from her without a care in the world. When I heard the verdict I cried for that poor girl...NEVER will I go to Indonesia again...NEVER!!!!

[The Voice]

1. I am not defending the Indonesian legal system.

2. Please understand that we do not have all of the facts.

3. The media hype is more than responsible for the highly emotive responses from most ordinary folk

4. Attacks on the individual judge who handed down the verdict against Schappelle are of absolutely no benefit, and certainly won't do her cause any good.

5. Claiming to boycott Bali isn't really going to achieve too much either.

The fact is, she has been sentenced. There may or may not be an appeal, (my money is on one being lodged) but if there is, it will further delay her being deported home to serve her remaining sentence. I believe that she will be brought home most likely within 3-5 years or so, and will serve another chunk of her sentence here. After she is home, the government will begin lobbying the Indonesian royal family seeking mercy/leniency/pardon and Schappelle could be released well within the 20years if one is granted.

Nothing about this entire episode save the non pronouncement of the death sentence is worthy of the media hype. Nothing could have been done differently by the Indonesian judiciary BECAUSE IT WAS SO VERY MUCH UNDER INTENSE SCRUTINY OF THE AU GOVERMENT AND MEDIA OUTLETS.

The decision in your opinion may be unjust, but that is your opinion which has been arrived at without the benefit of the full facts being revealed. Thats facts, not the media blurb being dished out, which would have been culled to fit a time frame based on advertising or other news items to be broadcast.

She's a lucky girl not to be facing a bullet, considering how strongly the asian communities feel about drugs and the couriers' of it.

[EAAFA]

The Voice has encapsulated all of my own opinions on this subject.

What I'd like to add is that it is extremely inappropriate for cabin crew to be voicing their political opinions to passengers. At Qantas (and I assume this is true of all the world's carriers), it is also a breach of the code of conduct to be telling passengers to boycott a particular country.

[Jeff Stryker]

re the comments the voice made.
fact or fiction, she still was sentenced to 20 years.

[qcc2]

as a regular longhauler in cattle class i also going to recommend to every aussie to do what is best. fly past bali to other more safe and less corrupt destinations. for those of you who feel for the people of bali i have on suggestion. let them know to clean up their act. having their head in the sand and accepting corruption as a way of life is no excuse.

[Mr Toad]

HAWK
--------

Thanks for the info about the QC's offered by the Government; I stand corrected on this point, my apologies.

I wonder why her family turned the offer down? I'm certain they would have left no stone unturned in Australia to get to the root of the matter.

[I Just Want To Fly]

The reason so many people have their heads in the sand is that they are poor and uneducated. How is a 36 year old woman who has sold handy crafts for the past 20 years, and didn't finish primary school, supposed to stand up to her government.

If you plan to boycott Indonesia, then please add the following countries to your list:

China, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Mexico, Cuba, Guatemala, El Salvador, Venezuela, India, THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA ....... and pretty much every other developing country. They all have notorious reputations for corruption, and human rights violations.

The majority of these people will never be able to afford the luxury of getting on an airplane, let alone a holiday in another country. Most of them do what ever they can to survive.

A big part of the problem is countries like the USA, UK, France and Australia, both now and in the past. Sucking other countries dry of their labor and natural resources.

This is a bit like an employee of Air New Zealand blaming an Ansett employee for the demise of Ansett.

It is the moral and ethical responsibilities to help our neighbours without teling them ho to run their lives. I commend the Aust Govt for it's commitment in East Timor, and more recently Aceh.

Have you ever thought of joining an human rights group which works in Indonesia. Instead of being negative, do positive things with your life.

And once again: What you say to your friends and family and on this mssage board is your business. But don't force your opinion on others.

A long metal tube hurtling through the air at 900 km/h is not the place to air your pesonal beliefs. You are their to look after your passengers. Bite your tongue and say "Coffee for you Sir?"

[OVERTALK]

Good to see Major Gen Michael Jeffrey has the courage to express an opinion and approach the Indonesian President directly.

After seeing this shockingly unfair and unjust verdict from the Indon legal system, it will be a cold day in HELL before I or any of my family set foot in Bali or Indonesia on vacation again. No one should ever haphazard their liberty by venturing anywhere in Indonesia in a tourist capacity. I'd also ruminate deeply about doing business with Indons. I have a mate who got deeply involved in a business venture there and got very short shrift from the Indon legal system. There is no real justice to be had. He was swindled and their system just laughed at him.

I'm not saying that the people should not be helped. I won't be asking for our Tsunami contribution back. However as a tourist destination it should now be declared dead. Only the great unwashed keep going back there anyway. There are worthier destinations without the now proven risk of being subjected to a very primitive justice in a quite arrogantly simplistic legal system.

[surfnsun]

Journalists who are delegated to follow a particular case have the benefit of being privy to the evidence presented in court during the course of a trial.

I was interested in a comment expressed on a national news program yesterday during a 'chat' session amongst the three journalists in the studio. One of those on the TV show indicated that he had asked some of the other journalists covering the story in Bali what their opinion was. The opinion was, considering the evidence provided, guilty.

One thing seems fairly certain. The media hype has presented a biased view of this episode thus far, something that should not surprise those of us in the aviation community.

None of us are fully briefed on the evidence provided. Whilst opinions may be expressed, we should remain open enough to consider that she may, in fact, be guilty.

Boycotting travel to Bali will only hurt the Balinese themselves. It will not bring about a change in judicial process. That's something that should be left to diplomatic channels, if at all.

[eyeonthesky]

Cartexchange et al ...

So "it's all the fault of the media" ... and the "media has outdone itself this time" ... and worse - "the media is dominated by men, who were just there for a freebie and a perve ..."

All I can say is ... turn into Donkeys... and get onto yourselves ....

The media is damned if it does -- and damned if it doesn't.

You b*tch about Indonesia, its system and the oppression there .. well, hello ...we have a free press, a free media in this country - and you should be damned well glad ...

Yep sure, there are those at the lower end (read tabloid) of the media who sensationalise ... but you know who they are - so don't watch, read or listen to them, if you want fair, balanced reports.

I suspect you - and your union use the media when it's convenient to get your message across ...

And please don't anyone start bleating about how those in the aviation industry are treated by journalists (please see my posting "media request").

Remember ... don't shoot the messenger ...

Sorry... but you just can't have it both ways ...

[qcc2]

just hurdled north at 900 km/h in an aluminium tube past that island of late fame and getting some very interesting comments from the traveling public. as engaged employee conversing with my passengers it has produced some outstanding results. several punters had their bags wrapped at the airport, not to mention every handbag, toilet bag and any other checked or carry on is now well and truly sealed. just a few extra keys added to the money belt which gives security at the airports some extra work. nothing like a bit of fear going around. And as for the island down below as I said before, its good to have enough juice in the tube to keep going. not one punter disagreed.:8

[Onewordanswer]

Thars right should be a different law for Oztralian girlz..........isn't it!! Stupid Druggie:}

[Jeff Stryker]

the post is not about guilty or innocent or having a consciene re hurting the balinese financially if we choose not to go.
its about "is there a risk going to indonesia".
quite clearly there is and again, think about it carefully - look at history.

[peanut pusher]

I've tried to keep a open mind untill I spoke with a NSW Drug squad Detective last week BKK/LHR.
Seems police circles who have been very quiet for the reason there is continuing investigations in Aus going on. There is a link to a well known Bali resident who dabbles in Pot in Bali as hash is the only smoke available in Bali and has a market amoungst tourists and expats.
Qld detectives believe it wasn't the first trip but no proof of other carry ins could be made public.
Boogie Board and cover weight approx 2.2kg, add another 4.4kg and you think you wouldn't notice, first weight and then look, plastic bag brought exclusively to fit the the boogie board cover
size, then you would carry it through customs knowing it was very differant from when you left home ???
The last chapter is yet to make itself known, but I think it's not too far away.
Mick Kelty Aus Fed Police boss hit the nail on the head when he quoted the evidence was "overwelming" and got a public lashing for his truthful statement.

[eyeonthesky]

"F" Module ... thanks for your honest and forthright post ...

Alas, I do remember cash for comment ... and have no fear, I won't be offered any of the inducements you refer to.

You see, I am just a working hack, not a star, not one of the glitteratti or a shock jock - but someone who actually sees his job as reporting the facts - not the shock-horror "passengers in terror" type stories.

Even if I was offered a freebie by an airline, I couldn't accept it ... you see, I'd lose my job - I work for the national broadcaster - and quite frankly it would be unethical (yes, some of us still abide by them) - and more importantly I wouldn't want to risk my super or my job security at my age (45 BTW)

I realise the story is all there to be read in the IR related posts - see my post "media request". I need living, breathing bods to talk to me -- with a total guarantee of anonimity and in strict confidentiality.

Thankfully a couple of retired QF people have already offered - and I'll take them up on it - but I need a few current employees to round out the picture.

BTW - it won't be a "let's bash Qantas" yarn either. Both sides will get their say.

all the best ... Eye.

[Moniker]

Eye on the sky .. WRT your hint at wanting to undertake investigative/responsible journalism reporting, what's your angle?

Are you only interested in the big end of town? What is it your actually after?

[eyeonthesky]

Moniker ... what I'm after is all set out in the post "media request"

Interest is not in the big end of town - actually the grass roots.

Eye.

[RatherBeFlying]

4Kg = 9 pounds, i.e about a sack of potatoes, but dried up leaf matter would be half the density; so we're talking about a lump the size of a twenty-five pound sack of potatoes.

The first person I would want to talk to is the checkin agent as s/he may well have a personal recall of the bag in question.

Yes, the police investigation is highly remiss in not bothering to obtain the checkin weight and calibrate the scales. Certainly her lawyers should have been on to that, but there remains the possibility the checkin weight would not have helped her story, and there are many in similar circumstances who have been drug mules.

It is still possible the contraband was surreptiously added. Others have advised walking away from any bag showing signs of interference and leaving the country ASAP, whether Indonesia, the USA or many others.

[kuningan]

peanut pusher,

Thx for some sane sense and an open mind....it does seem very odd that whoever stuffed the boogie board bag happened to have a bag that fit exactly....must just have been lucky.....there's more on the topic here (http://tinyurl.com/bpl2t)

And I hope a long prison stretch is in store for whoever posted bacteria to the Indo Embassy in Canberra - as if that is going to help Corby's appeal.

So to answer the origanal posts question i) I hope many of you DO boycott Bali so ii) It will be more pleasant for the rest of us who do go.

[jan brady]

Its been suggested that the reason that she did not put a lock on her bag was so that she could use that as a defence??
Could that be possible??? Surely not..
As for those of you who want to boycot indonesia on layovers, i mean come on, Fourplay?? are you for real? Let me assure you you will be having layovers there in the very near future. Isnt that right etihadlad?
We will just have to grin and bear it. And have another drink at the bar hey?:)

[tart1]

I suppose the only answer to be completely safe travelling pretty much anywhere in the Far East and other parts of the world, is to have hand luggage only, which you never let out of your sight.

The suggestion of shrink-wrapping your case is a good one but how do you know that the smugglers haven't got access to the same wrapping method and will just re-wrap the case. Is that far-fetched??

I am a person who likes to take lots of stuff with me and that involves a big case for a 2-week or more holiday. But it's a bit silly isn't it? I could manage on far less. This thread makes me think that I should change my big-case habit and travel with a small hand-luggage-sized case and have complete peace of mind. :cool: :cool:

[mutt]

Just spent the last 6 days in Jakarta, planning to go back for a month in Sept, even considering investing in the Nusa Dua golf resort.... Life is so much easier and less stressful when you dont travel with 4 kgs of hash in your luggage!

As for those of you who dont think your gov did enough, this is from http://www.smarttraveller.gov.au/assisting_within_limits.html


cannot provide funds to pay your legal costs, represent you at legal proceedings or give legal advice
cannot get you out of prison or obtain special treatment for you in prison
cannot investigate crimes



Mutt.

[OCCR]

I agree with you mutt, so so so much easier to travel when you don't have the goods!
I simply cannot get over the hysteria, the media have a lot to answer for! there simply has to be some sort of control over the scandalous reporting!.
Its a shame! that chick has really stuffed it up for a lot of travellers!
The good thing is people have really short memories, next week there will be hardly a mention, they will offer the feral aussies cheap tickets to BALI and they will cash in the Centrelink cheques ASAP.
:mad:

[PA-28-180]

Just a follow on to T1's post. I used to travel extensively and for extended periods all over SE Asia as a telecoms engineer. My personal travel motto, though, was "If I can't RUN with it, I don't NEED it!" I found I could get all I needed into a garment bag and my briefcase.
Also tends to speed one through the departure process as you're not hanging around beside someone who's taking thier HOUSE with them!
:mad:

[disegaged]

Yeah, good on ya!
Typical pilot who wears his undies four ways before a wash!

And obviously a loner without family.
Try travelling with a wife and a couple of kids and just one garment bag.

Remember your words when you get in the family way, if any self respecting person will still marry a pilot....:p

[TightSlot]

Seems a little harsh disegaged - Poor chap is just passing on his experience and advice, and before he knows what hit him he's an unsanitary and unmarriageable pilot!

[craic1510]

Thanks moderator, I agree that was a little harsh..

And to Disegaged (are you sure you spelt that right?)
You are new to the forums from what I can tell, so take it easy on the posts hey? Everyones entitled to their own opinion as there wouldn't be anything to debate right?

However in Corby's case..I wont divulge my subjective opinion. I think the media have made both Schapelle and Australia alike a mockery in their own ways. Yes I can understand that Australians want to protect her because she is an aussi, but looks to me now like no one actually knows whether she was guilty or not. The media are playing both sides of the field to get a good story.

After studying law, I can see that there are huge flaws in both sides of the case, but at the end of the day...she has been convicted, and she has been convicted in Bali.

If she didn't do it..then yes I do pity her, however justice will prevail in some form or another. If she did do it and the guilty verdict is correct...then I am disappointed that Australians so desperately want to bring her back to Aus. If she did do it, let her do the time in Bali, as she was silly enough to take the goods over in the first place.

Schapelle is a very smart girl and has matured very quickly from this whole experience. If she really wants to clear her name she will find a way...Like I said Justice will prevail.

Although I have had an open mind.. I still do have my opinion about wether I think the outcome was right. However Australians are dividing ourselves over this issue, as are the world. Why is that? Is it really going to change anything in the short term? :ugh:

craic1510

[Wheelie_Bag]

Whenever media sensationalism ever gets ahold of Aussies caught breaking the law in other countries, the convicted become martyrs in the Australian publics' eyes, and the legal system in the country involved is labelled 'barbaric'.

I cant say whether or not she is guilty. However, that was the verdict, the crime was committed in Indonesia, and therefore she will have to accept the penalty.

I think it is a real reflection of us as Australians that we are so ready to attack another country's legal system and customs, when we live in a country where convicted (guilty!!) child molesters can walk away from prison in under a year, and sometimes just get suspended sentences.

Our legal system is far from perfect, and for one, I would much rather have a heavier-handed legal system than the 'slap-on-the-wrist' one we have today.

So before attacking Indonesia's legal system, have a look within your own borders.

As they say, people in glass houses and all that ......

[redfred]

sounds like shes guilty to me

[The Voice]

After studying law, I can see that there are huge flaws in both sides of the case

same same Craic .. but again, that is our opinion, based on our respective legal systems. Again, we are not privy to the whole factual story either.

when we live in a country where convicted (guilty!!) child molesters can walk away from prison in under a year, and sometimes just get suspended sentences.

again Wheelie, the Magistrate has the advantage of hearing the evidence (alleged facts) then weighing up other information before handing out a sentence.

It may not be right in our subjective eyes, but we are not privy to that combined info that the Magistrate is, so how can we say that the sentence was appropriate or not?

I have had to sit thru' some horrendous stuff being trotted out in court, it is very hard to be objective when the facts are being presented, and that it was makes our judiciary that little bit better at handing out punishments than is more ordinary folk .. it doesn't make it any more palatable or right mind you.

[OCCR]

well havent emotions settled down....
Have a look at the figures, the numebrs to BALI have never been better, Garuda has added another flight. so much for the "boycott"
looks like most people never gave a sh1t, it was all a media blowup.

[Omaha]

Thought you guys might be interested in viewing this thread I started on the subject in JB.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172024&highlight=drugs

I'm thinking of visiting Indonesia while on a trip of SE Asia within the next two years. While I'm no lover of the Indonesian regime my wish to see the culture of this part of the world, its geology & Bali seem to outpassing any qualms I feel in this regard.

I've no idea whether the lady in question was guilty or not, I'd be lying if I did, though like some here as I've stated in my thread I feel many similar plights like hers have not got the similar public exposure & support because they weren't raving female beauties. Of course even if she's guilty I feel the sentence she got was out of proportion to the offence though of course we go have to remember the 'When in Rome' adage & respect the laws of lands we're visiting. No matter how peculiar, medieval & harsh they seem to us, visitors are very powerless to challenge & disobey age old systems without harsh regress. Nor do I now believe that marijuana is the harmless drug many believe it to be which I've pointed out in my thread & which has been reiterated in a 'Panorama' programme recently.

I'm not into drugs, I do not partake of them, carry or push them but when I visit SE Asia I will be taking extra precautions with my luggage, infact it's likely I will be going out & buying a whole new hard set, luggage straps & all nor will I be travelling there via the US which has an open suitcase policy. Having drugs planted on you I believe is the main danger, while I'm sure it's rare I've no doubt it does happen & that there are innocent people languishing in SE Asian hell holes because of this.

As a pax, as someone has stated, I do not believe an FA's duty (or that it is professional for them) is to ram their beliefs & advice down my throat while I'm a captive audience on their aircraft however well intended. I'm sure most pax have the maturity & judgement to make up their own minds on this issue. As many of quite rightly said if tourism is boycotted there, it will be the innocent struggling to make a decent livelihood who will suffer, not the corrupt regime or those who impose the law of the land.

[Rollingthunder]

Why bother?

Have a visit to Fiji, have a good time and save all the trouble.

Country is really not worth the effort.

[tinpis]

While not connected this (http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/site/articleIDs/8A715A1C114489FECA256FE300258868) is fascinating.

Who knows what sort of games are being run ? :hmm:

[Omaha]

Gees Rollingthunder

That's not a great advertisement, why do you dislike it so much?
It's the geology of the country that really interests me though, as those lovely active volcanoes :ok: though looking at the trips online today I'm going to be hard pushed to fit in Thailand, Malaysia (including Borneo) & Indonesia in one trip, may have to split them into two. I've heard so many wonderful things about Bali it's got my curiosity going.

I intend to do the South Pacific Islands on another trip to give them time & justice, Fiji included. You obviously recommend it much more. ;)

[Rollingthunder]

Omaha

Probably totally illogical and a generalization but I just don't like the country - their political corruption, their classing of marijuana like heroin, their judicial corruption (Bali bombs vs marijuana importer), the religious intolerance and extremism and a continuing threat to westerners by those religious extremists. Wouldn't go there if you paid me.

All in all - why would one bother with a crap country?

You will enjoy Fiji more. Yes there are divisions amongst the ethinc Fijians and the east Indian Fijians but they mostly get along and a fine holiday can be had without the possibility of getting blown to smithereens by another religious nut case or two.

[OZcabincrew]

I must admit, i've been to Bali twice on holidays but i probably wouldn't tend to go back. Not the best holidays destination.

Oz

[tinpis]

Ok....would Bali be so bad if Corby was guilty as charged ?

[mutt]

I'm taking my 75 yr old parents on vacation to Indonesia and Bali in September....... Just made sure that I'm in their will :)

Omaha, did the IRA ever stop you from visiting the "mainland"?

Mutt.

[Omaha]

What ya mean mate, mainland Britain?

No, though it did make me more self conscious being Irish there at the height of the troubles.

They & the thugs on the other side did stop me visiting the North for years though.

It took a geology freak till they were 40 something to see the Giant's Causeway. Now that must mean something. I did meet a guy from the North years ago at a disco in Dublin & told him I was planning to visit Antrim (a protestant stronghold). He response was to beg me not to go "You may have a terrific holiday or you may end up in a black plastic sack on the side of the road."

I deferred my holiday for years. :uhoh:

Anyway I'm not too sure that Corby is innocent anyway, good looks engender alot of sympathy & protective chivalry, just don't be a drugs carrier & ugly whatever you do. I think this may be one motto of this story. :\

I hope you enjoy your holiday mutt you well travelled fellow you. :)

Rollingthunder

Just as a matter of interest have you ever been to Indonesia?

[tinpis]

Tin spent many a fine night in Antrim (Dunardry)during the troubles.
Lovely place lovely people
Drivng to the Dunardry Inn from Aldergrove in a hire car at 3 am dressed in a BA uniform was a bit thought provoking tho.

Balis fine.

Take lomotil and sunscreen.

[PA-28-180]

Thank you very much Tightslot for your kind comments in relation to my previous post. First time I have been "flamed" on this site. I think what they forgot was that hotels DO have laundry service? :ok:
As you said, I was simply pointing out my own experience traveling through the region. Though I am not forming any opinion here regarding Ms. Corby, this would NOT be the first time something like this had happened - there were cases like this in the US back in the late 60's and into the 70's particularly with people coming back from Mexico, Latin America or South America with a "little something extra" inside their baggage.
There were also cases of drugs being found in the wheel wells (and other places) of american carrier aircraft coming back from these same area's in the 80's (and I believe early 90's) Other than keeping your baggage WITH you, I don't really know of anyway to fully protect yourself.
Safe travels.
P.S. If it's Wednesday, it must be time to go change me shorts!:D

[tinpis]

there were cases like this in the US back in the late 60's and into the 70's particularly with people coming back from Mexico, Latin America or South America with a "little something extra" inside their baggage.

Still is isnt there?

So...dont fly from Latin America into the States?

In fact BOYCOTT the USA coz you could be found guilty of having something extra in your luggage?

:hmm:

[Rollingthunder]

Nope..... Never been to North Korea either.

[PA-28-180]

Nooooo....if you read the last part of my post, you would see that I said quote:
"Other than keeping your baggage WITH you, I don't really know of anyway to fully protect yourself."
Why is everyone trying to read things into my posts here that I am NOT saying? :confused:

[Omaha]

Aha but tinpis

May I respectfully enquire are you a 'Brit'. Do you see I'm what is known by the Protestants in the north as a 'taig' & probably a few more names that couldn't be repeated here or by the Catholics up there as a 'freestater'. If I'm correct & you are a 'Brit' you would not have got the same reception in the height of the troubles in a staunchly Catholic area & probably not even now just like my southern accent would have been inviting trouble heading into a staunchly Protestant area at the time. On my visit to Antrim last year I found most people lovely though I found the Union Jacks flying in my face in Bushmills (I was glad I wasn't staying there, the seaside resorts were fine) off putting as I did the fact that I was refused service at one bar. The American with me was convinced it was because of President Bush, I assured her it was my southern accent they found offputting.

I invite you to walk down the Falls Road at night anytime even better wearing a Union Jack on your teeshirt. You'll soon see what lovely people they are. :E :rolleyes:

Oh BTW a beautiful young Catholic woman on holiday recently in Portrush with her friends was abducted from the caravan in which she was staying on her own in a caravan park by Protestant militants. She hasn't been seen or heard of since & it is presumed to be a sectarian murder. I stayed in Portrush but not thankfully in such vulnerable accomodation. Could have been me! :uhoh: