Question

[OriginalNick]

Not sure if this is the right forum to post my question.. But I am going to give it a go anyway.

I had a call from a friend the other day, he's company needs to travel around the country to see 5 places in one day. They have contacted an air taxi company but the prices they charge are way too much. He then asked if I could get an aeroplane and fly them around and here comes the question: can I, being a qualified CPL/IR fly them around legally, as long as the aircraft is maintained under a commercial AOC and they hire the aircraft.
It would be a light twin, they would cover all my expenses and the ferry flight.

Any help much appreciated

Nick

[Miserlou]

Simply put, no. Din sort taxa, du.

You would be flying for hire and reward, the reward being that your friend would be paying your share of the cost of the flight. The aircraft also has to be operated on the AOC.

Now, if he hadn't asked you to fly him, you could have offered to fly him around which would be legal as long as you pay your share.

I wonder if it could be done if you were employed by the company. You'll have to check the rules and regs.

[Pub User]

Surely Nick, as a CPL, is allowed to fly for hire or reward?

[Miserlou]

Not unless they are operating under an AOC (taxi, charter, airline etc.) or directly for a company which owns and operates the aeroplane (corporate).

This is my understanding of the rules.

[cjam]

Miserlou is correct, can't do it. Also correct that you could do it if you payed for your share of the flight although not if they were delivering goods to be sold or for commercial use. Even then it is just a bit of common sense really, you know that the purpose of the flight is commercial and you would have to pretend that it wasn't if push came to shove.
You could do it if you were on the AOC holders books and you would have to have done a route check....but they would never agree to that as then they are losing out on the business....or doing the business at a lower cost.
Pub User....it is nowhere near that simple, if it were there would be 50 times the number of operators around as there is, CPL's would simply advertise in the yellow pages and then hire planes. It would be impossible to maintain high saftey standards of individual operators.
Cheers

[Mach Jump]

Hi Nick

I don't know if the rules are the same in Norway as here in UK, but here, if you hire an aircraft, then you can hire a pilot to fly it for you and it is still a private flight, so you don't need an AOC!

[Miserlou]

Mach,
You'll have to explain how that is legal. Where does the responsibilty lie in the event of an incident and which set of rules are valid?
They may not be fare paying passengers but are certainly being carried in the course of their work which would make it a corporate flight.
Hiring an aircraft is private hire. Hiring a pilot is for hire and reward.
This must operated on an AOC and as you describe the aircraft's operator would appear not to know that it is being used in this way.

[Piltdown Man]

This is air transport work and can only be executed by an organisation holding a recognised AOC. The pilots employed by such an organistion will have demonstrated their fitness by passing their FCL and OPC's. So simply put, no. Now maybe this organisation who employs your friend will be more generous with their cash (and assist the Air Taxi operators) or be more realistic with their expectations of their employees.

[Paranoid Parrot]

If they hire the aircraft then no. If you hire the aircraft and take them along as uncharged 'friends' then there would be no problem. I have known PPL's do that. They say they are experience building, which they are, but they were also taking high value items between one location and another for a company. You can not state the real reason and you must be the one who does the hiring. Of course if they are giving you money for something entirely different that is between you and them. :hmm: