Hours towards a PPL

[italianjon]

Hey guys...

I am really trying to work out how to do this PPL thingy, on a shoestring. Not by choice, but everytime I think I have some money saved, a bill comes through the door!!!

Anyway I have some Vigilant hours clocked, about 11 hours, with about an hour or so of that solo. These hours date from 1996.

Then I have 16.5 hours dual and 3.5 hours solo on a Cessna 152, from an RAF Flying Scholarship done in 1999. From this I also have passes in Aviation Law, Human Performance and Aeroplane General Part 1 - I am assuming I can not use the exams and would have to resit, is there not an 18 month rule form total completion of the exams or something?

I also have a few trial lessons and a few Air Cadet AEFs to add as well, but these total an hour or two.

Does anyone think I would be able to count any of these towards a PPL? Or have they "expired"?

Thanks

J

[FlyingForFun]

The best thing to do to figure out what you can count is to have a read of LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS2005.PDF). Section 1C contains the details of the exact requirements for a PPL.

However, more important than the rules about what you can and can not count, is whether it is practically feasible to complete the PPL. The minimum time, as I'm sure you know, is 45 hours. But almost everyone needs at least a little more than that - some need substantially more. If the average for people who have no previous flying experience is, for example, 55 hours (which I would guess is a reasonable average, but I don't have any figures to back that up), then your experience from 6 or more years ago may reduce the time it will take you to, maybe, 45-50 hours. Which is still more than the minimum, and so might well make the rules and regulations rather academic.

Have you considered getting an NPPL? The hours requirements are less - but without knowing what you're trying to achieve, I don't know if it would meet your needs.

FFF
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[Whopity]

Put quite simply you have 20 hours that will count, the various bits of military flying are probably not countable. The exams are not worth anything, so you will need to do 25 hours and pass all the exams.

If you have not flown since 1999 don't expect to do it in anything less, it could take a little more.

[italianjon]

Cheers guys, thanks for the answers.

I am kind of stuck in a bit of limbo at the moment. I would like to go on and do a night and IMC rating so I would be looking for a full JAR-PPL. Looked at an ICAO one, but European touring is part of my aim. I know technically you're valid, but I have heard the issue is proving you're valid on a "G" plate. And is there not something about the UK about to ban British based "N" plates?

I am also stuck between here and the US. I would prefer here, as I would be used to British Airspace, although the US is more affordable.

The kind of irony is that I know the hire of a plane the otherside will not be too much of an issue. I would look initially for maybe a non-capital investment share, but I have loads of friends and family who would donate to the cost of a flight - before the whole CPL thing it's a donation not a purchase of a ticket :ok:

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I'll take it on board and keep on thinking. I hope to complete this summer at some point. I will be changing jobs, and so am going to fit it in between. Just gathering all my info before I need to decide.

Thanks again

J

[MLS-12D]

I am really trying to work out how to do this PPL thingy, on a shoestring. Not by choice, but everytime I think I have some money saved, a bill comes through the door!!!Obviously I don't know all of your particular circumstances, but I will presume to make a couple of general statements:

(1) Private flying is one of the most expensive hobbies going. Sure, some countries (e.g., the USA, Canada) are less expensive than others (e.g. U.K., Switzerland); but in no country is it a cheap pastime.

(2) The cost of flying usually does not substantially decrease after obtaining a PPL. Yes, one rarely has the added expense of an instructor, but total costs remain fairly high; especially if one progresses to higher performance aircraft. You might be correct in thinking that "the hire of a plane the otherside will not be too much of an issue", because friends and family will be delighted to cover the entire cost of joyrides; but that is not usually how it works out, for most pilots anyway.

As many people on this forum can attest, those with a true passion for flight can usually find a way to prioritize their spending so that there is always enough left for flying: even if it is only enough to stay (barely) current with a half hour of circuits every month. However, for those without reasonably hefty disposable incomes, this requires significant sacrifices.

My point is that learning to fly is not an endeavour to be taken lightly, or with the assumption that all will be smooth sailing once the Holy Grail of the PPL is finally achieved. If you are challenged to finance basic flight training, it most likely would be difficult to pay for the cost of "European touring".

I don't mean to be unduly negative, but you may as well go into the flying game with your eyes wide open.

[FlyingForFun]

I agree with what MLS-12D, but doubly so if you're thinking of getting an IMC rating. Messing around inside clouds when you can barely afford to stay current is not somewhere I'd like to be.....

FFF
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[italianjon]

Seriously guys thanks for the advice and posts. Good stuff to think about.

I agree; it is better to have the points of view of others who have gone through it. Sorry if that sounds selfish - but I am sure I'll make mistakes that I can pass on the experience when the time comes.

The real sticking point is that of the actual PPL. My intention is to try and get it done between jobs. I'll be changing later this year, and when I start the new job meeting the "running costs" of a PPL will be somewhat easier.

I am trying to get the money together to hit the whole thing in 4 to 5 weeks full time. I think I will benefit from a more intense learning environment.

An NPPL route has been mentioned above. What is required to turn an NPPL into a PPL at a later date, and could I still take passengers on a NPPL?

Thanks

Jon

[Flik Roll]

NO NO NO!!!!!

You can count your vigilant hours - up to 10hrs worth.
It goes in a different bit on license application form (can show you where if you need to know). Make sure you take 3822/Vig Logbook to the CAA.
AEF flying does not count as it is logged as PAX flying.

Any Q's please PM me!

[italianjon]

I will probably have to do most of the course again as it has been so long since I have flown an aircraft...

but can these hours be put towards my TT time for insurance.

I have 30 hours now, say 80 when I finish (allow 50 for PPL), does that mean I have to do 20 more before I become 100TT, or do I have to start counting post PPL?

[-IBLB-]

all hours remain "your hours" you can not loose hours. You've flown them once, right? you can use them toward a rating, the only question is if it will really benefit you, since after such a long time, you will need close to the required amount of hours anyway, to get up to standards.

-IBLB-

[BEagle]

Flik Roll - according to LASORS 2005, Vigilant hours (Pu/t or P1) may only be counted in full towards a PPL opened with a TMG Rating. For a PPL opened with a SEP Rating, only 10% of Vigilant P1 time up to a maximum of 10 hours is allowed.

[Whopity]

"You can count your vigilant hours - up to 10hrs worth."

Towards a PPL with a TMG Class rating (LASORS C1.2.) Otherwise 10% of the hours flown to a maximum of 10 hours. So only 1 hour will count towards a SEP Class rating.

Pre JAR-FCL the Vigilant was regarded as a Group A aeroplane because it was outside the UK SLMG definition.

[Flik Roll]

Beag's:
Yep you're right - it has changed since I cashed all mine in. Deja vu on having this convo actually....:}
I even managed to use some of my dual time towards my license.

Bit stingy of the old CAA to sneak in the TMG bit...

'we're not happy 'til you're not happy' and all that....:suspect: (not a CAA fan)