Why o why o why!

[Fuji Abound]

With my C of A renewal coming up I was horrified to see that the renewal fees are likely to substantially increase. The increase is presumably connected with the pressure brought by the airlines for GA to pay a greater share of the cost mentioned on here before.

Chatting to a friend today we also got on to the subject of EASA. I commented that we might at long last see a PPL friendly European IR. Quite the reverse, my friend said! He thought we would see the demise of the IMC with no grandfather IR rights or any more friendly IR.

Now I know he was expressing his opinion which so far as I am aware has no factual basis. However this type of “scaremongering” in GA seems to have a very nasty habit of turning into reality!

There was a very good thread on here some little while ago about why GA already contributes more than its share in taxes and therefore indirectly to funding the CAA. I thought great there in lies a sensible argument and doubtless sensible consultation will follow. Hugh!

There have been numerous threads here and elsewhere for as long as I can remember about the lack of a sensible private IR. In fact not only have the regulators failed to do anything about the very real needs of private pilots they have sort to tackle the use of FAA IRs to make it even more difficult for private pilots to use their IR privileges. Now I can fully understand the need for ensuring pilots are properly trained to fly on instruments but I have never seen anyone seriously suggest that an FAA IR is any less worthy than our equivalent.

So to sum up we pay the people who govern us more so they can find more ways of preventing us exercising our rights as pilots.

.. .. .. And who have we got to blame. I suspect only ourselves. OK we have organisations like AOPA and the PPL IR who I am sure do good work but the fact remains the regulations and the costs are rising disproportionately to inflation or to any proven case of increased safety. How long on this forum have we been setting out the need for a PPL IR for example.

In my opinion PPRUNE (together with the other pilot forums) should do something more useful and provide a forum for dealing with these issues. The work certain PPRune members did with NATS I think it was last year with NOTAMS was brilliant.

I for one would whole heartedly support a campaign to deal with the IR issue.

[Flyboy-F33]

A nicely articulated summary of how many people feel. I, like most others feel somewhat powerless to effect change in the system. When viewed as a whole, the problem seems too big to contemplate so we just sit back and wait for the inevitable increase in charges and bureaucracy.

It does make you feel like packing the whole thing in sometimes.
However, I understand thast there are a few pilot members of the house of lords and even a few flying MP's. I think it would be worth finding out who they are and writing to them. You did after all, put it so well!

Or vote with your feet and move to the Dark Side...I did

[Floppy Link]

Gerald Howarth (Con)
Nigel Griffiths (Lab)
Lembit Opik (Lib Dem)

unless they got voted out last week

It was in the April AOPA mag. You are a member aren't you?

;)

[egld0624]

Hi FA,

I do share your concerns. I looked into this matter a little while ago as I heard rumblings of a proposed ppl/ir class 2 based on a similar standard to that of the FFA equiv'.

I do recall recently reading somewhere in a UK publication that (I believe) the CAA has put forward such a proposal of a class 2 to Big Brother in bureau'ville.

Not teaching anyone to suck eggs here:-

Bottom line - don't watch this space soon. It's taken the lot of "them" this long to bring it up and I can't foresee any governmental agency UK or EU picking up this ball and running with it quickly - that's just not their style or mandate.

Efficiency, economic and democratic accountability just do not appear on the EU regulatory radar model anywhere IMHO. "Pay your dues and pretend to be an airline" is the sad reality.

There still remains a monumental learning curve on both sides. Especially, producing the best manner to tackle politicians that once in a while jump on a biz jet on their election campaigns and think that that's “GA” – i.e. something a minority of wealthy can afford and then you worry about costs versus inflation! It just won't be on their agenda. Couple that with the easy economic benefits that they can visualise from airlines moving large numbers of potential spending pax into their countries/cities and the "rich few" where do they really appear in that frame of mind/picture??

Yep, you'll find some exceptions: www.pplir.org has been on the case and so has AOPA. But until GA pilot Smith really gets behind the issues collectively he will just end up continually taking onboard more deadweight regulation that may make more sense to an airline than just the real GA we all know it to be!

The IR is no exception.

I've literally just commenced a long distance IR theory course with GTS (www.gtserv.co.uk) in Bournemouth. There are only a handful of schools providing the tuition this way. So much time was dedicated to the creation of the JAA ATPL that the IR still comes a long (distant) second best in its’ promotion. Again note the trend here; main and obvious rating (ATPL) that plays into the obvious economic model of airlines above is fixed first by the regulators - all else waits. [And yes I do understand the logic in that bias too].

Good luck. I'm sure I've stirred up a hornet's nest here.

Kind regards to JAA IR pilots ATPLs & PPLs.

EG :ok:



www.navex.aero

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Now, when I heard that Charlie was spending the first few days of the campaign flying round the country in a little light aircraft, why was I not surprised to learn that Lembit was the pilot?

(I have no idea whether he'd campaign for GA, it's not something I've discussed with him. He might be too busy with foxes and asteroids and his other various interests ... but he's very energetic, so you never know.)

[Flyboy-F33]

I cant believe there has been so little comment or response to this post. It's not just about the IR, but almost every aspect of GA.

Fly....

[Fuji Abound]

Flyboy-F33

Thank you for your very kind comments.

I too (he says humbly having started the thread) am surprised there has not been more comment.

Perhaps we have only got ourselves to blame. It makes you very despondent about trying to do something about it.

[WorkingHard]

Fuji - I dont believe it is because we dont care, it is much more a case of those who have been around a long time are so worn down by the idiotic, futile and downright nasty, perverse and envious bureaucracy we have in the UK that response is futile. I pay AOPA to look after my GA interests and hope that most others do the same.

[Fuji Abound]

I wasnt intending to get into a debate about AOPA but I asked them a while ago what they were doing about the IR issue - I still havent had a reply. I was a member for many years but became a bit disillusioned with the lack of success they seemed to have. I was also a member of PPL IR and again was disappointed how little they seemed to address this particular issue. Maybe they are both really trying and maybe they have exactly the same problems Workinghard sets out and have just got nowhere.

Perhaps I am being very nieve but it seems to me if only GA could really get together on the issues as seems to happen in the States we might have some success in the short term. I suppose the time everything seems to take eventually wears us down!

[rustle]

Is it really nearly three years since we last discussed this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=73102&perpage=40&pagenumber=1)? :D

[Fuji Abound]

Rustle - is it really that long!

I tried to get somewhere with with the various representative organisations in the mean time - no luck I am afraid.

I thought before it was too late it would be worth having a go at our representative MPs but I am struggling to see how GA is really going to put forward a united front as I suspect one small voice is not going to achieve a great deal. Any ideas fellow PPruners!

[cubflyer]

Fuji,
I think the reason there are not many responses is because of the title- no one knows what the thread is about, so perhaps dont bother looking.
As for your C of A renewal costs, sounds like bad news, glad Ive got Permit aircraft!
I have an IR and ATPL, but only use it for work, for fun I just fly around VFR.
Im not sure what the problem with the PPL IR is?? I did mine when it was still CAA (just) training seemed appropriate, it cost a lot, because a/ it was in a twin and b/it was a CAFU approved aircraft.
I guess you still get problem b/ doing it in a single. Very odd situation when you can do almost the same stuff with an IMC rating, but you dont need a CAFU approved aircraft for that.
I guess the question to ask here, is do other EASA country aircraft have to be specifically approved to do IR training and if not why do they need to be here. (or maybe this regulation no longer exists and Im talking cr*p!)

Now do you have to do all those pointless ATPL ground exams to get a PPL IR. If so then this is really stupid. This is just a job creation scheme for people in the CAA. The whole lot is 99% pointless certainly to airline flying.

Now wouldnt it be better if the CAA just accepted an FAA IR and that was it!
How about finding out how all those East European pilots flying for Ryanair got around all of this?? Perhaps the Ukraine CAA will give you an IR based on an FAA one, then you can get an Irish IR based on the Ukraine one, which maybe our CAA will then recognise!??

The new GA alliance seems to be getting things moving a bit with the Government and EU. Hopefully they will save us from some of the rubbish coming our way, at least they suceeded with the attempt to charge aircraft below 2000kg Navigation charges.
I think AOPA is a member of the GA alliance, which seems to represent most of the aviation groups.