Why the sudden interest in Alexandria?

[airmemphis]

QR have announced they will begin 3x weekly A320 flights on the DOH-ALY route.

Wow, it seems Alexandria (ALY and HBE) are on a roll lately. In the last few weeks Austrian Airline, Oman Air, Gulf Air and Emirates have announced new flights to Egypt's second city.

[mutt]

Now if only we could convince them to cut down the trees!!!

Mutt

[airmemphis]

You completely lost me there mutt!

[mutt]

We suffer from severe payload restrictions due to the trees at the end of one runway in Alexandria. We have tried to have them removed to no avail.


Mutt.

[airmemphis]

I'm assuming you're talking about ALY (Al Nozha Airport) in which case the trees aren't the only problem. The vertical expansion of buildings in the surround area is becoming a mater of concern for approaching aircraft and the facilities are quite small. This summer SV will have a daily ALY service (4 from JED, 3 from RUH).

I doubt any major refirbishments will haapen at ALY as the authorities are planning to close it down (in 2008) and move all operations to HBE (Borg Al Arab airport) which is currently served by Air Arabia, British Airways, TUI Belgium and Emirates. Hopefully by then the authorities would have improved transportation links between HBE and Alex city centre which has been the main reason airlines have avoided HBE till now even though its facilities are better than ALY's


Besides it seems strange an MD-90 would face 'severe' payload restriction on a relatively short flight even if the runway is short/restricted.

[mutt]

Considering that 1100 nms isnt really a short sector for a MD90, I would consider 15% of the available passenger load to be severe!

Mutt.

[airmemphis]

Thanks mutt. I wasn't aware it had such an impact.

By the way, how are SV doing in Egypt. I have a few questions if you don't mind?

-Last year SV had 3x daily flights to Cairo (year round) and now its 2x daily with a 3rd daily flight during the peak summer season only. On the other hand Egyptair have increased flights to 3x daily year round and plan to add 3 more weekly flights. Why have SV done this? I know there RUH-CAI flights increase from 1x daily to 3x daily during the summer which is an impressive increase.

-Also how are loads on their ALY route?

-I know this summer they plan 2x weekly MD-90 flights routing RUH-JED-SSH-JED-RUH, but I think last year RUH had its one dedicated flights to Sharm El Sheikh (SSH).

-And finally has SV ever served Luxor?

[mutt]

Your questions relate to marketing and are totally out of my scope of responsibility or knowledge... sorry!

I'm usually only concerned with loads on flights to my favourite destinations, Eqypt isnt on that list! :):)


Mutt.

[newscaster]

airmemphis, last week justplanes reported British Airways are to launch service from Gatwick to Hurghada and Sharm el Sheikh through their franchise partner GB Airways using A320's so you have BA proper and two of their franchisee's(BMed, GB) flying in too, how have the Egyptian govt allowed this?

I believe last year they had refused Philippine Airlines to fly Manila-Riyadh-Cairo with their own A340's after MS quit Manila and PR's code share ended with that, so why they do such things?

[airmemphis]

newscaster, I can't see why the Egyptian authorities would say no considering the UK-Egypt bi-lateral is quite liberal. SD and for a short time IY were granted rights on the CAI-LHR route.

Besides MS already operate
-CAI-LHR
-LXR-LHR
-SSH-LHR

and BA (thru partners too)
-CAI-LHR
-HBE-(BEY)-LHR (no traffic rights on BEY-HBE sector)
....and soon
-SSH-LGW
-HRG-LGW

Also bear in mind Astraeus have scheduled flights between the two countires
LGW-SSH (3x weekly B752)
MAN-SSH (1x weekly B73G)


As for Philippine Airlines applying to serve MNL-RUH-CAI that was only a rumour. If indeed that was true it was probably refused because PAL wanted traffic rights on the RUH-CAI sector which the Egyptian authorities would not grant to protect Egyptair (the Middle East is MS's most profitable market).

-AF currently fly CDG-CAI-RUH with no rights between CAI-RUH
-KE currently fly ICN-DXB-CAI with no rights between DXB-CAI
-LH will start FRA-CAI-DMM flights this October with no traffic rights between CAI-DMM.

The only exception is SQ who fly SIN-DXB-CAI with full passenger traffic rights between DXB and CAI.

The Egyptian authorities are quite protective of Egyptair (as it is a government owned airline) so they try to minimise any other airline competing against it besides the official carrier from the destination country. Unfortunately this also has a negative effect on private Egyptian airlines, as all 9 of them are restricted to the charter market so not to 'step on the toes' of Egyptair.

There has been talk that authorities would become more lenient (and it has changed slightly) but it might take time before the Egyptian market is truely liberalised.

[newscaster]

In winter KE were flying nonstop ICN-CAI with A332 and summer schedules also showed it as nonstop wbut with 772ER, while DXB was nonstop with A332/A333 and just A332 with the summer schedule.

I thought BA would only be allowed in on their own and not through differnt franchises.

Even for Addia Ababa they were in with BMed A320 and ex-Kenya franchie Regional Air 737-200.

[airmemphis]

newscaster,

The 3x weekly non stop 772 flights you see is an error and if you check the flight number you'll see its MS9731, so it seems Egyptair (who codeshare with KE on the route) have messed up their ICN schedule.

For the summer KE flights to CAI are:
KE951 ICN/CAI 21:30/09:10 M-W-F-- A333 via DXB
KE952 CAI/ICN 11:10/08:20 -T-T-S- A333 via DXB

In the winter (from 31/10/05) they will have 2x weekly non-stop flights with B772.




"I thought BA would only be allowed in on their own and not through differnt franchises."

Well GB Airways and British Mediterranean are independant airlines and they are not owned by BA. And remember Astraeus also have scheduled flights from London to Egypt. So in theory there are 4 UK airlines operating scheduled flights to Egypt

[airmemphis]

newscaster, I just did alittle research and apparentely the reason KE joined the DXB and CAI flights (even though they've each had dedicated flights for over a year now) is EMIRATES.

Since EK started their daily flights to ICN, its had a huge impact on KE's 3x weekly flights where demand on their flights literally dropped overnight . So to make the route viable they connected it with CAI.

I guess its 'bad' news for CAI to loose a non-stop service but its better than nothing.

[airmemphis]

Over the last few weeks many airlines have announced or started new flights to Alexandria and I wanted to know what's the reason for this 'sudden' interest in Egypt's second city. The new services are to both Alexandrian airports; the downtown Al-Nozha Airport (ALY) and new out-of-town Borg Al-Arab Airport (HBE).


New Services:

--Emirates: start new DXB-HBE daily flights with A310s.
--Austrian Airline: started 4x weekly VIE-ALY A319s flights this month
--Royal Jordanian: will begin 3x weekly AMM-ALY flights thru subsidiary Royal Wings with Dash-8s
--Qatar Airways: will start 3x weekly DOH-ALY flights with A320s
--Gulf Air: will start 3x weekly BAH-ALY flights with A320s
--Yemenia: started 2x weekly SAH-HBE this month and will start 2x weekly SAH-ALY flights next week. (why have IY decided to serve both airports???)



Increases in services:

--Air Arabia: just added 3x weekly flights last month, and will add another 4 more flights this month. This will give them 14x weekly A320 on the SHJ-HBE route. (largest international airline in Alexandria)
--Olympic Airways: doubling ATH-ALY flights from 2 to 4x weekly B733/734 flights.
--Kuwait Airways: increasing KWI-ALY flights from 1 to 3x weekly A320 flights


Egyptair have increased some of their ALY-Middle East flights but nothing significant.


Its clear all the new service are by Arab airlines (bar OS and OA) so why the sudden interest?

[vfenext]

Teacher flights for the summer season. It's normal this time of year. Teachers and families from the Gulf return to Egypt for holidays. Anyone going to HBE beware, they do not monitor the ILS and it goes on and off at regular intervals. Ground facilities are poor, if there is more than one aircraft on the ground buses can take ages.

[Itswindyout]

As I understand it the Egyptian government is expanding its tourist market to cover the Med coast. There are several big resort developmets under way.

As to why every one is getting in on the act I do not know, the airport terminal is bad, the suport services are bad, and the weather occassionally suffers from wind.!!!!!!

Any more input welcomed.!!!!

Windy.

[airmemphis]

vfenext, The teacher flights are an annual occurance but they are always operated by charter flights and most route via CAI. I doubt that would warrant the growth by all these airlines. As for HBE, I have flown there around 4 times (BMed from LHR) and I don't think its that bad...the only problem is the lack of adequate transport links to Alex city centre.

Besides the airport is under utilised and at the moment it only recieves 3x weekly A320 flights from BMed/BA, 10x weekly A320 flights from G9 (increasing to 14x weekly this month) and next week EK will have a daily A310 plus IY B738s. My point is that the chances of having any 2 flights sitting on the apron at any one time are low (check flight times) so congestion is not an issue yet.


Itswindyout, yes its true the Egyptian government are currently developing the North coast but that development is currently being concentrated around the brand new El-Alamien Airport which only opened last month ( http://www.airbp.com/airbp/public/news/EL_Alamin.html ) and that caters for the new Movenpick resort (first resort on the North Coast)

As you said the facilities at ALY are quite out dated. The authorities haven't bothered rennovating the airport as until now it handled very few flights so they questionned whether it was worth the investment. It seems that decision has hurt them now and at least to me it was clear that it was only a matter of time before Egypt's second city really developed its air links...I just didn't think it would happen so rapidly.

However things should be looking brighter in the future according to this article.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/737/ec7.htm

What worries me is how ALY will cope over the next 3 years without any planned rennovation/expansion work till it closes down?

[vfenext]

Don't be worried I don't think its about to become another major hub!! GF fly there direct from the Gulf with teacher flights in the middle of the night when ATC are not exactly awake! Fun for all the family.

[airmemphis]

vfenext, no one said it'll become a major hub, but its certainly a long over due expansion for a city of several million residents. Besides the combined passenger numbers at HBE and ALY, are still lagging way behind Hurghada (4.1 million), Sharm El Sheikh (3.8 million) and Luxor (1.5 million). And to be honest 'teacher flights' doesn't seem enough of a reason to start such a service.

p.s. and don't worry too much about the ATC, they'll do their job right ;)

[vfenext]

Believe me I worry about ATC in Egypt. Most of the time they can't hear you and the rest of the time they can't understand you. It's almost impossible to go through the CAI FIR without a relay.

[airmemphis]

vfenext, like I said no need to worry. The only airport I've experienced slight ATC trouble at was LXR and thats about it. Sure the accent might take time getting used too but I can name you a few other countries that are truely horrendous when it comes to communicating with ATCs.

[airmemphis]

newscaster, if you check the schedules now you'll find on selected dates KE will be using the B744 instead of the A333 on the CAI/DXB flights.

[vfenext]

Absolutely nothing to do with accent just cheap transmitters. Must have bought them from Bombay!

[airmemphis]

I apologise, I obviously got the wrong end of the stick. Well I guess the equipment at ALY are a bit out dated (and at ATZ too) but the rest are all above board.

A new ATC system and tower are being built at CAI to open in 2007 when the third terminal opens.

[Bumz_Rush]

Perhaps they all want to go to a less high profile Egypt destination, more bombs in Cairo.

Also the med coast is expanding its tourism business.

But that does not explain the rapid rise of Alexandria, (x2).

Out of Cairo now, so really don't care.....!!!!!!!!!!!

Bumz

[airmemphis]

Bumz_Rush,

"...more bombs in Cairo..."

Not the cleverest comment I've read. There were two bombs in Cairo and one was foiled. Such attacks are prone in any country. Egypt has tight security and even more in Cairo but unfortunately some slip through the net.

[Bumz_Rush]

AM, I have just finished three years in Cairo, so am reasonably competent to call it as I see it...I was working with an American....I had no major problem with Cairo, loved my time there, but he and many others perceived it as dangerous. remember the Luxor problem.. this dented the perceived security in Eqypt. the Taba bomb did not help either....so when this recent problem near the museum....tourists have long memories.....The number of security forces on the street should act as a deterent, but as we both know it actually creates a challenge to the bombers....

[airmemphis]

Well off course you are entitled to your own opinion I was just clarifying one or two points. You can't compare the recent events with the Luxor massacre which was truely horrific and targetted all tourists. The event in Taba was seen to be targeting Israelis and was comitted by a lone Palestinian. As for the events in Cairo, they were more of a political move against the Egyptian government than tourists and I hope the culprits are bought to justice. Undoubtedly these bombings will have some effect on tourist numbers but it will only be temporary and (hopefully) of minimal effects as the Egyptian tourism industry has proven to be resilient.

Last year Egypt recieved a record 8.1 million tourists, pumping $6.6 billion into the economy and they expect 9.0 million this year. Fathi Nour, chairman of the Egyptian Hotel Association has stated that following the Cairo attacks, booking at Cairo remained steady and they only reported a 4% cancellation. He did however state that the Red Sea resorts were still proving very popular.

Anyway I hope I haven't come across too heavy handed, I just wanted to clarify some issues (and I think we deviated quite a bit from the main thread). Do you mind if I ask what you did in Egypt? was it in tourism?

[Bumz_Rush]

Corporate Pilot....more via PM if wanted.....Bumz

[airmemphis]

Sent it Bumz

It seems the ATC strike in CAI is really taking its toll ...
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/05/11/bt.cairo.flights.reut/

I guess you got out in time:p

[airmemphis]

According to other forums, AF and AZ are interested in serving Alexandria from their respective hubs from winter 2005/2006...

[Britco]

FYI,

Air Arabia flies into ALY (twice a day every day starting 30 May) not HBE. If I do say so they have been instrumental in stimulating traffic into this area, hence the interest from the other middle east companies.

[airmemphis]

Britco, indeed G9 do serve ALY (that was a typo error). And I do agree G9's growth has been a catalyst behind this growth at Alexandria.

It's just been brought to my knowledge that the Egyptian authority has (this year) adopted a new, more liberal approach towards granting rights to more airlines wishing to fly to Egyptian airports (bar CAI). One of the main reasons for this, is the severe overcrowding at CAI (Egypt's main gateway) and lack of scheduled services at other airports. So this move will allow greater growth around Egypt and ease the pressure at CAI.

As for Alexandria, Egyptair have announced they'll be increasing services to JED. The route usually has 2x weekly flights in the winter and 6x weekly in summer, but from November 2005 the service will become a daily A320 service year-round. AFAIK this is the first time Egyptair have served an international destination with daily scheduled flights from a peripheral Egyptian airport (i.e. bar Cairo).

The Egyptian tourist minister just released a list of the areas in Egypt which have exerienced the highest growth in tourism in 2004:
1. South Sinai/Red Sea (e.g. Sharm El Sheikh)
2. Luxor
3. Alexandria
4. Hurghada
5. Cairo