PLYMOUTH

[WOWBOY]

Plymouth (PLH)

Does anyone know if any bigger aircraft will be able to operate from Plymouth when the runway extention is complete?

Newqauy (NQY)

Do you think the new BMIBaby services will do well?



Also can you please post any News or Rumours that you have heard about ethier Newquay or Plymouth.

[NCLRULES]

I haven't heard any, but I will post back here if I do.:ok:

[WOWBOY]

I have heard that they were going to start NQY-NCL-ABZ but there has been no further infromation on that.

Aparently they did have plans to operate PLH-BOH-BHD or BFS but dropped the plans due to Jet2 launching BOH-BFS.




WOWBOY

[Centre cities]

Reference Birmingham to Newquay I have recently booked a flight. Cost me £15 including taxes, although I would not expect the fares to stay that low the flight takes about an hour.

Coach Travel was over £35 and took from 0700 to 1700.

Train was £48 involving 2 changes and approx. a 6 hour journey.

No contest really.

Not to sure about getting punters out of their cars though.


Centre cities

[Jet2LBA]

On the subject of NQY, i think the WOW service to LBA is doing very well. If you take a look on their Low Fare Finder for May/June it shows almost all of their Sunday services from NQY as Full. No doubt the remainder of their summer program will fill up nicely over time too.

Incidentally, i flew WOW for the first time on Tuesday this week on their new LBA-BRS service (which continues to NQY). Flights just about full both ways with about a dozen pax continuing to NQY each way. Not bad for a mid-week flight, and the MAN connecting pax helped boost up the BRS-NQY sector.

[Fried_Chicken]

I think Air Southwests 4th DHC8 gets delivered soon

Fried Chicken

[Morrihell]

I think Air Southwests 4th DHC8 gets delivered soon

Probably needed........The LBA service had a bit of a shaky start but seems to be have settled down now though no doubt they were "teething troubles"

FlyBe's G-JEDE has been on lease for a few weeks and a number of flights were covered by DAT's ATR-42 OY-JRY for a short time at the end of April.

Flying out to Leeds on Monday and back to Bristol on Wednesday, i'd have taken the train once upon a time............

MH

[mmeteesside]

G-WOWD was delivered to Plymouth last night.....ex JY-RWA (Royal Wings of Jordan) :)

[TheOddOne]

I know it's a sad reflection on our modern times, but I DO wish you folks at WOW would change your callsign!

Cheers,
The Odd One

[WATABENCH]

I think NQY is going to be a very busy lil place in years to come, lets face it, its basically the UK's answer to Magaluf, look at the amount of domestic tourists who visit from all over the country especially young peeps and usually have to face the god awful and expensive journey on the roads, why do a 5 hour drive from Brum and spend god knows how much in petrol when you can fly there for 15 quid!, i would predict quite a few new routes for NQY i'm just suprised its taken until now for airlines to realise the potential of NQY, well done FR for starting it all off with the STN-NQY route, also surely the airlines could rake in XS charges for carriage of Surfboards!!!:ok:

[Oshkosh George]

G-WOWD was delivered to Plymouth last night.....ex JY-RWA (Royal Wings of Jordan)

It actually hasn't been JY-RWA since 01/05/03,when it became N547DS,then C-FDIY in 16/12/04!
Accuracy is EVERYTHING!

[GW76]

Would PIK - Newquay not be a winner ?

[Thylacine]

I just stumbled on this thread sitting here down here in lil'ol Tasmania.

Hopefully some will find this post interesting about Newquay.
back in 1966. I was the first station manager for British Eagle when they commenced services to Newquay. Before that the only operator was Westpoint Airways who had a service LHR/NQY using a Dakota.

British Eagle had a schedule each Saturday using two or three Viscount 700's with services to and from LHR, MAN, LPL,GLA and BHX. So it was a busy little airport in those days. BMA also started their Viscount service from LBA about the same time.

It was a great job during the summer on secondment from London. With flights only arriving on Saturday I "looked after" the ticket office at the tourist centre in town and spent many hours on the beach below the Grand Hotel or taking long lunches at the Anchor? pub. Oh to be 20 again!!

Soon after, EG commenced fliyng the BAC 1-11 LHR/NQY taking only 25 minutes. That beat the 6 or more hours on the train. I cannot remember the airfares but the flights were full and it wasn't just for the well heeled.

I drove past the airport a few years ago and saw how it has developed. I can see with the entry of LCCs how it will be developing into a very busy place.

But sadly looking back and seeing what has happened to the lovely relaxed atmostphere of Newquay and Padstow in particular, I wonder why you would want to go there now at all.

They say you should never go back!

[GROUNDHOG]

Thylacine - those were great days weren't they, ex BUA and Westward Airways myself. How times have changed.

Here's how I see it as an ex airline MD living in Cornwall

Newquay (the town of) is NOT typical of Cornwall, locals avoid the place, it is now exclusively a surfing mecca and resort in the image of Ibiza. A small element of 'city slickers' might fly down to surf but mostly they will arrive in clapped out vans. The families come towing the accomodation or with a grockle box attached to the roof - not much airline traffic there then. The season is also very short, you could never make a route viable on this traffic.

So who does ( or would) fly down here?

A huge number of second home owners from all over the country, with the growth in modern technology a considerable number commute and spend long weekends here.

VFR - Visiting friends and relatives, loads of retired people here. I arrived back myself from Brussels today and have neighbours who all travel 'up country' regularly.

Business traffic, a lot of investment from outside means business traffic is increasing constantly and the expansion of shipping and cruise liners into Falmouth is another area of growth which will require crew movements and support.

As far as I can see no-one has tapped into up market pre programmed tours to Cornwall (avoiding Newquay), with all the new connections there is potential surely?

But all this has to be tempered by the fact that apart from the wealthy incomers the salary levels are the lowest in the land so joe public isn't about to be making many trips out of the South West at all and certainly not by air!

So the answer is yes, Newquay Airport has a future, but the infrastrucure will not support major expansion in current conditions. There there are still a few routes which could work ( if anyone from Skybus reads this personal mail me). Air Southwest have done well and deserve huge credit for clever planning and they will go further yet.

A freight treminal has been suggested (IMHO will not work) but there is so much more potential in other areas, biggest hurdle is the owned by the County Council who know little about commercial aviation and don't seem to want to listen to anyone that does.

I am available for consultancy.... but not on sunny days?

[Dash-7 lover]

Groundhog,

Coming from Cornwall a freight terminal would be an excellent idea as the road situation in Cornwall is pretty dire most of the year and the holiday seasons don't help. Im surprised there are no night paper runs from London but then the trains must take that strain. Congrats to Air Southwest and best of luck to Air Southwest. Once word get's around I'm sure there will be more routes to follow...

[GROUNDHOG]

Dash-7 lover...

Not sure wher in Cornwall you are but the roads around Newquay Airport are surely just not suitable for heavy trucks, apart from that it is slap bang in a tourist area. The road network to Exeter will be greatly improved when the work at Goss Moor is completed. Isn't it really only in the Summer peak when traffic is a problem and then mostly at weekends. I CAN see the argument for flying a simple freight service into Newquay but believe what was intended was to build a dedicated base and do a hub and spoke operation for transatlantic freight connecting to Europe. Nice idea but I just don't see that working! Never seen any freight go on the train by the way but it certainly should??

[STAN DEASY]

The near total absence of a viable public transport service from the main towns and cities of Cornwall to the airport makes Newquay costly in comparison to road transport when going up country.

A decent bus service which links with flight times from the major railway stations to the regions airports is vital for the continued success of regional airlines.

As a regular rail user the sleeper train is now regularly well occupied with part time commuters to the smoke who have downshifted to the west and have a deire for speedy, cheap reliable and coordinated transport links

[LGS6753]

Freight might work.

The problem with accessing Cornwall is time/distance. This has been made much worse (and more expensive) by bringing in more daft EU regulations to restrict truck drivers' hours. From West Cornwall to London is now a full day's drive, with no stops and no delays. Summer traffic could make it a 3-day round trip.

Someone like Channex, who have a large road freight business, could perhaps make a case for transporting produce out and high value short-life goods in.

[cptcoxie]

i am glad to see air southwest expanding i found them very pleasent to travel with (JER-PLH-BRS)
hope they will start Jersey to newquay anyone heard any rumers???

[GROUNDHOG]

LGS - well it took me four and a half hours to drive an LGV from Truro to just south of Gatwick via the M3 and M25 last week so I would have been in Heathrow in about four hours and that is from Falmouth which is twenty two miles from Lands End.
That includes stopping for two breaks and a sandwich! I have done this drive many many times and have never taken more than eight hours even in the peak of the Summer.

As soon as the A30 and A303 links are completed this journey time will be cut again so there is no way it would take 3 days unless it was by traction engine, even with the stupid EC rules on hours. ( I have driven HGV's in the past and am about to renew my licence for fun and a bit of part time driving).

The point I am trying to make is that this is the wrong place for a sizeable freight hub with the full infrastructure, it is far too far West but I do not argue against a regular freight run here. The only thing is it may not be economic becasue the rail connections are so good as already posted and doesn't Newquay shut at night? I doubt it would be viable to keep it open for one flight?

Out of interest tracked and received a package via UPS from the States and it was routed Stansted, East Midlands, Exeter

UPS of course are ultra efficient but on papaer that makes no sense, in reality I am sure it does!

[Vuelo]

Would like to see WOW extend their Manchester service down to Newquay, too!

Might we see Jet2 operate this route I wonder......

[Tallbloke]

more daft EU regulations to restrict truck drivers' hours.
even with the stupid EC rules on hours.
Do you mean tachograph regulations? I wonder what your attitude to flight time limits are?

[GROUNDHOG]

Tallbloke - agree with you that regulation is a good thing. It is how it is applied is the problem.

If someone is out all night living it up they should not be driving or flying even for a few minutes without rest, yet that wouldn't register on any tachograph or duty roster? But how do you regulate for that, a taxi driver fell asleep at the wheel and wrote off my car and three others, tiredness can kill ( fortunately it didn't that time)

Meanwhile back at Newquay Airport....

[Outoftheblue22]

Vuelo:
I think you will find that Air Southwest do sell Manchester to Newquay (albeit with a change of aircraft at Bristol). You can have breakfast in Manchester, and have sand between your toes before lunch!

[MerchantVenturer]

You can indeed fly from NQY to MAN and v/v, or PLH to LBA and v/v by changing a/c at BRS.

Air Southwest time the arrival of their PLH-MAN/MAN-PLH and NQY-LBA/LBA-NQY flights to arrive at BRS almost simultaneously in the mornings and evenings. They have given BRS the rather grandiose title of 'mini hub'.

The aircraft invariably park at adjacent stands to aid the transfer of pax from LBA wishing to go to PLH and pax from MAN wishing to go to NQY (or v/v in the mornings).

In the current Bristol Airport thread a pax decribed how he was taken by bus from one WOW aircraft to its sister on the adjoining stand when transferring.

Obviously difficulties must arise if one of the aircraft is very late.

[LGS6753]

Tallbloke -

Tachograph regs have been in place since the late 70s, and pose few problems. The current issue is the imposition of the 48 hour week and restriction of night working that started in April. These regulations, emanating from the EU, are totally unnecessary in the eyes of most drivers and most transport companies.

[WOWBOY]

Is the fourth aircraft being used as a back uo or what?

[terrier21]

I think it will have to be unless it ony operates a couple of sectors a day with gaps inbetween otherwise wow could find it very costly if one of them ex BACX dash's have a real problem.

[marlowe]

Air Southwest not big enough outfit to have spare aircraft sat doing nothing all day.

[WOWBOY]

There have been rumours that they could be starting:
NQY-NCL-ABZ
PLH-BOH-BFS/BHD*


It could be operating a 1xdaily on ethier of these routes if their was truth in the rumour??

* Looks very unlikely:

FLYBE Exeter (EXT)-Belfast City (BHD)

JET2 Bournemouth (BOH)-Belfast International (BFS)

[huggybear]

What aircraft can actually get into Plymouth these days? Obviously the Dash 8's and ATR 42's, but can the 72 get in? How about the Jetstream 31/41?

[terrier21]

WOWBOY - BACX used to operate a PLH-BRS-NCL-ABZ ,albeit with more expensive fares, but the loads on the last sector of the night BRS/PLH used to be at most in their very low teens and often 2 or 3.

As you have probably seen on the Bristol Forum the loads between BRS/NCL seem to be one of the heaviest. I could almost guarentee if you based the next dash at BRS (or maybe even something bigger) and operated a BRS/NCL/ABZ marketing it the same way the PLH/MAN NQY/LBA IE 'FLY PLH/ABZ to NCL and ABZ for under £30 one way' twice a day they could make an absoulute killing guarenteed!!!

Only one a day is a bot of aproblem as you miss the buisness market as RE ORK have found with 3 flights a week!!!

[stolport]

huggybear - British World operated an ATR-72 into Plymouth a while ago on a couple of charter flights.

The Royal Squadron operate their 146's but they have fairly light passenger loads whenever they visit.

Jetstream 31's have been used quite a lot, as have the Beech-1900, Bandit's, Twin Otters and Islanders, Dornier 228 and 328's. Many bizjets also operate in to Plymouth, the Hercules also manages quite well as do Harriers but they both upset the neighbours quite a bit!

[WOWBOY]

Who is British World?????

[Charlie Fox]

British World succeeded British Air Ferries. Now no longer with us.

[EGTE]

WOW

:hmm:
try here!
http://airlines.afriqonline.com/airlines/386.htm

[bealine]

Hey Thylacine and Groundhog, do you remember Westpoint? ......The DC3 which operated Exeter - Gatwick and Exeter - Channel Islands services?

http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/23180/070452.jpg

http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/23180/124760.jpg

http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/23180/494417.jpg

I was a schoolboy in those lovely days of the '60's but fondly remember the DC3 banking over our Devonian village!

[Irish Steve]

do you remember Westpoint

Oh yes! Just reminded myself of the colours, and given how long ago it was, they didn't look bad.

[Thread drift} If I remember correctly, the did EXT-LHR, and then a sub charter to Rennes for BEA, but it was a long time ago [/thread drift]


I did several flights on the Rapide aircraft that they used to use on the Scilly Isles route, and they were different. Air day pleasure flights out of EXT, down the coast to Berry Head and back, at about 1000 to 1500 Ft, that was flying of a totally different sort!

Then of course there was the pair of mosquito targe tugs that leapt into the air at about 0905 every morning to the despair of the teaching staff at the school, there was just no way they could compete with 4 merlins on full song at less than 500 Ft as they climbed out:D

[Mooncrest]

G-WOWD is now in service with Air SouthWest. Saw it at Manchester on Tuesday.

[ALLMCC]

WOWBOY

Don't think NQY - BHD would work - too close to EXT. PLH might work at 1x Daily - would be nice to see Air Southwest here.

[Dash-7 lover]

Huggybear..... ATR-72 into Plymouth.................dream on!! the -42 is restricted enough..Back in 1987 there was an official open day for the new 13/31 when we had visits from an AVIANOVA ATR-42/CROSSAIR SAAB340/QUEENS FLIGHT 146/Someones DORNIER 228/TYROLEAN DASH-8-100 and the BAe ATP demonstrator which would have landed if there was enough ramp space but the rest of them did circuits with management from Brymon Airways who were looking for the Dash-7 replacement.....

Stolport - I remembered the day a Herc landed which was orignally supposed to be a touch and go and upset airport management as the a/c was too heavy for the grade of tarmac used for rwy 13/31 and caused all sorts of issues.

[Richard Taylor]

WOWBOY:

Is the rumoured NQY-NCL-ABZ still a possibility,or is it unlikely now?

I heard this rumour as far back as about Oct 2004!

[WOWBOY]

I would love to see them fly NQY-NCL-ABZ. Now that G-WOWD has arrived now there is a spare aircraft so it could still be a possibility.

I have heard that their next expansion will be mainly from their PLH base as the last was mostly NQY expansion?

It would be great to see them start a new base, it will also be good if they started a EXT-LONDON service?

[nclairportfan]

I think a problem for this route would be Air Wales already serve PLH - NCL via CWL and PLH - ABZ via CWL. As WOW are owned by the same company who own PLH I doubt they would consider going head to head on routes to the south west.

Lower costs are needed on the route and with their mini hub at Bristol, and the success of the BRS - NCL EZY route I'm surprised they don't cash in a little with a PLH/NQY - BRS - NCL - ABZ - NCL - BRS - PLH/NQY route. It would probably knock Eastern Airways a little too!!

I think there is lots of potential from PLH, NQY and BRS. I would like to see them open routes to CDG, LPL, EDI, IOM, GLA and maybe BRU.

They are sensible though as they aren't expanding too fast. They seem to be doing well with sustained and affordable growth. No point in making yourself bankrupt whilst trying to expand is there!?!

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone Know what the loads are like on the NQY-BHX and NQY-NME routes as they start in a few weeks??

[MerchantVenturer]

Air Southwest recently announced that they have recruited ten pilots and five cabin staff to work from their new base at Newquay. MD Malcolm Naylor is quoted, "The expansion of our services out of Newquay represents a significant commitment to Newquay in line with our belief that the airport has a sustainable future as a civilian operation."

There are undoubtedly gaps in BRS's route map that WOW could almost certainly profitably fill with ORK being the top of my list - Aer Arann don't seem interested in the route. NWI is another and possibly LPL.

As I see it though there could be logistical difficulties. I doubt that WOW would want to create a third base in the southwest (and BRS is starting to run out of overnight parking places anyway - a long discussion about this in the BRS thread), so the alternative would be to start, say, a NWI route at PLH or a ORK route at NQY. This would mean running either two NQY-BRS and/or PLH-BRS a/c up first thing in the morning, or alternatively run the route just from BRS at an unpopular time in the middle of the day. Bymon/BACx tried BRS-MAN at lunchtime and it failed, it contrast to WOW's arrival on the (extended) route with decent timings, and prices.

[StephenM_SMC]

Hows the DUB flight going? The fact that not a lot of people (who I asked anyway) know about Newquay or where it is could be a bit of a limiting factor! :p

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone have any idea on the load factors of all Air Southwest routes??

[nclairportfan]

WOWBoy - only statistics I can find from CAA are from January 05. They show Air South West had 12992 passengers that month with a load factor of 61.7%

[WOWBOY]

An aircraft which looked like the BMI ATR-42 was spotted at PLH at around 12:30?

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone think that there ia a chance of PLH-LCY by EuroManx?

[DELTABOY]

Would be interested to know if Air Southwest have any male cabin crew amongst their workforce.

[WOWBOY]

The NQY-BRS-LBA and PLH-BRS-MAN flights both arrive/depart bristol around the same time to allow PLH-LBA and NQY-MAN connections, if one aircraft is say 1 hour late the other aircraft wasits for the other to arrive so passengers can change aircraft to me this is not good for passengers as they can hardly carry on and leave passengers stranted????

[MerchantVenturer]

So what do you suggest WOWBOY?

[aeroconejo]

funny looking ATR that was there today was from Air Atlantique...6G have an a/c in the hangar ...so route is subbed out

aero:)

[AirLCY]

Sutton Harbour Holdings have reported that Air Southwest have achieved a higher than targetted profit for the last financial year. Sutton Harbour Holdings have reported an overall group profit of £2.5m.

Well done to them, it looks like their routes are all doing well!

[WOWBOY]

Do you think we could see additional services launched in the coming months????

[WOWBOY]

A new passenger lounge will open at Plymouth Airport in the summer!!!

[AirLCY]

PLH could certainly do with something better than its current passenger lounge, it's been the lovely cow shed style for many years now!

[Whispering Giant]

Considering it's a cow shed, i allways wondered how pax's could go missing in it as flight's were allways being delayed out of there when i worked for Brymon due to missing checked in pax's !!! - how they could go missing in that cow shed i'll never know.....

[AlanM]

....and I remember when the cow shed opened!!

God I feel old...:(

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone know how well the new NQY-BHX and NQY-NME routes are doing (forwaard bookings)?


>Does anyone know what the design would be like in the new passenger lounge AT PLH??


ALSO.....

>I would like to see Air Southwest operate BRS-ORK and PLH-DUB as Air Wales and Aer Arann don't seem to bother about these routes as frequenceies are always shrinking and I can see Air Southwest making these routes work!!!

[terrier21]

Wowboy - I think anyone could make the ORK route work from BRS especially WOW with their low Fares.

[Dash-7 lover]

WOWBOY............. The pax terminal was only refurbed a couple of years ago - have a look at the pics on

www.plymouthairport.com

Does anybody know if the WIP has been completed around the threshold of RWY 13 yet???

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone have any further information about the new lounge area all I know is:

From Plymouth City Airport Newsletter:

Improved Facilities

Customers using Plymouth City Airport over the last month will have seen our latest improvements underway in the terminal. These works will be finished shortly, and include the opening of a brand new lounge area and the provision of additional car parking spaces.

These improvements will dramatically enhance the service we provide to our customers, and will allow us to cope effectively with increasing passenger numbers.

[nclairportfan]

I had my first experience flying WOW last week and I have to say I was most impressed! The outward and return flights were both nearly full and crew were very friendly, despite our delays!

PLH has also improved since my last visit and there was more work ongoing. I just wish WOW would get rid of Air Wales on the NCL route as I think they could run it much better via BRS!

[Outoftheblue22]

WOWBOY - the improvements referred to are the opening of an additional landside lounge, a new security screen area and additional parking spaces. The new lounge is open and is a big improvement. There are loads of photos of the airport and aircraft etc in the photo gallery at www.plymouthairport.com (and a webcam!!).

[Devonair]

I was due to fly into PLH the last week from LBA and was hoping to see the changes made to the terminal. However we ended up diverting to EXT. On arrival in EXT I noticed another WOW flight parked up. Think I'll book Flybe next time, saves the wait and plane change in BRS.

[GROUNDHOG]

Meanwhile back in Newquay the local rag reports today that there was/is a suggestion that the EFA might be based at Newquay creating potential to keep the military side going and even creating new jobs.

So of course Cornwall County Council have objected on the basis that the aircraft might be too noisy and would possibly prevent the growth of passenger services.

Surely anything within reason that is going to help make the airport economically viable or give it a good reason to be there should be encouraged, you never know the grockles might even enjoy seeing the odd EFA flying overhead!

[WOWBOY]

There have been rumours that Air Southwest are negotiating a Plymouth (PLH)/Newquay (NQY) - Prestwick (PIK) service. It is said that they plan to operate the route twice daily.


Personally I would welcome this route with open arms if it was to go ahead as it will be so useful to me so I can vist the family in Glasgow whith little hassle although Glasgow Intl would be more convenient. But if it doesn't go ahead I will just stay on flybe's GLA-EXT route. :)

Will the route take off??????

[sunshine40]

I just moved to the area so want to visit mates back in London from time to time. I thought Air Southwest would be good for cheap flights but it's over £200 to go back for the weekend, which is ridiculous, it's cheaper to fly to Rome from Bristol! Also, I have heard reports of diversions at the last minute and being bussed to the end destination.

Any thoughts/experiences gratefully received.

[Mark Lewis]

Being put in a bus or a taxi was relatively common about a year ago, but there are now 4 aircraft in the fleet that makes this a bit less usual.

You can get some good fares if you are relatively flexible, but travelling at a weekend is always going to be more expensive then 2pm on a Wednesday.

[Trislander]

flybe.com News
31 August 2005

Flybe considers launching service from Newquay

We note that Ryanair have taken the decision to reduce their London services at Newquay Airport. Flybe believe that this is a key route for both South West tourism and business travel and we have been interested in operating a route from Newquay to the London region for some time.
There is a strong consumer demand for a fast and accessible air link from Cornwall to London and Flybe are currently reviewing the economics and viability of introducing a service from this base.

[footster]

I see reported in the local newspaper The Evenig Herald dated 22nd December 2005 PAX numbers for PLY have increased by 68% in the last twelve months.

Part of the report reads:-

The report reveals that 132,000 passengers used the airport in 2004-05, compared with 79,000 in 2003-04. In 2002-03, the number of passengers taking flights to and from the city was even lower - 76,000.

So obviously Air Southwest are doing something right for Plymouth.
Obviously with councils down this part of the world being slower than Wurzel Gummidge and having the foresight of a gnat does anybody think that plans are in line for an expansion to the runway at Plymouth as they have ring fenced certain areas around the airport from future outside expansion. I personally would like to see this happen.
Also in its yearly report Sutton Harbour Holdings plc. who own Air Southwest and Plymouth City Airport announced they were in talks to buy another airport anybody any ideas on which one.:O

[WOWBOY]

Also in its yearly report Sutton Harbour Holdings plc. who own Air Southwest and Plymouth City Airport announced they were in talks to buy another airport anybody any ideas on which one.

Yeah I saw this I think it will be either Exeter or Newquay!

[stolport]

They report the 68% rise but fail to report the recent negative news at the airport - No Cork and Dublin service from 3rd January (The Cork service has been very popular and has been running for many years by different airlines.)

Prior to this, Plymouth Executive/Gama moved their service centre away and the Flying school left for Exeter.

There is a derelict factory at the 31 end of the runway but the warehouse just at the start is still occupied but could be purchased quite easily. An extension has been debated for many years. One idea suggested was to build a ramp to overcome the problem of the sloping land they would need to fill.

They either need a runway extension or a direct high speed train link to Exeter or Newquay Airport if the city is to progress in the next 50 years.

[WOWBOY]

I saw a Euromanx Do328 at PLH today

Does anyone know why it was there?


They could be cheacking PLH out to see if they will start routes out of there:ok:

[stolport]

Announced today:

Airline pulls out of Dublin route

Air Wales says it remains committed to Plymouth

Air Wales has announced it is to stop flying from Plymouth to Dublin and is also stopping flights temporarily from the city to Cork.
The airline runs four flights a week each from Plymouth to Dublin and Cork.

It says the service to Dublin has not been as popular as had been hoped and is no longer commercially viable. Flights will stop on 2 January.

Flights to Cardiff, Newcastle and Aberdeen are not affected and Air Wales says it remains committed to Plymouth.

The flights to Cork will resume on 27 March and will go via Newquay.

[WOWBOY]

Announced today:

Airline pulls out of Dublin route

Air Wales says it remains committed to Plymouth

Air Wales has announced it is to stop flying from Plymouth to Dublin and is also stopping flights temporarily from the city to Cork.
The airline runs four flights a week each from Plymouth to Dublin and Cork.

It says the service to Dublin has not been as popular as had been hoped and is no longer commercially viable. Flights will stop on 2 January.

Flights to Cardiff, Newcastle and Aberdeen are not affected and Air Wales says it remains committed to Plymouth.

The flights to Cork will resume on 27 March and will go via Newquay.

Where is this from?

[stolport]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4565240.stm

Looks like they are planning a bus stop routing with the Cork service if it routes Exeter-Plymouth-Newquay-Cork.

[WOWBOY]

The PLH-DUB flight might be re-introduced by Air Southwest as they have said that they are looking into operating the route!

[Outoftheblue22]

Wowboy,

The Euromanx 328 was bringing the Preston North End team down to play Plymouth Argyle. The game was subsequently called off because of the weather.

And for those who are really interested, there is a photo of it in the smashing little photo gallery on www.plymouthairport.com

[WOWBOY]

An airline's decision to cut flights between Plymouth and Dublin has been greeted with disappointment by the local business community.

Article Here:Here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4566978.stm)
Something stuck out that I want to know more about:

Mr Jones said the cuts were coming after a major investment in new infrastructure at the airport, including the extension of its runway.

He said: "The extension was a big hope in the future development of Plymouth, so this a big loss."

[stolport]

It isn't an extension as such; just an increase in the Runway End Safety Area at the 13 end.

[WOWBOY]

What does 'new infrastructure at the airport' actually mean?

Also will bigger aircraft sizes be able to fly into the Airport?
(i dumb):) :E

[stolport]

The runway safety area has already been built. Without it, the runway length would have been shortened further and the Dash's and ATR's would have been further restricted in the runway they would be permitted to class as a take off and landing distance.

It has only meant a tiny improvement as the current users are still very restricted when weighing up passenger numbers, fuel and a wet runway etc.

You can use aircraft such as the ATR-72 and 146(as both have been used before) but their use is not very worthwhile to the airlines as they would have to operate with not many passengers.

Looking at the ever-changing Air Wales website, they now show:

From the end of March:

Cork-Newquay-Exeter (Monday, Wednesday, Friday)
Cork-Newquay-Plymouth (Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday)

[Charlie Fox]

New charges wef 1st Jan can be found here (http://www.plymouthairport.com/pilots/fees.php)

[WOWBOY]

Have the charges gone up or down?

[Charlie Fox]

Over 3 tonne has gone up as has out of hours charges (2x) & outbound pax tax + seperate security charge.

[WOWBOY]

Would just like to ask if the Saab 2000 can operate into PLH as I have never seen it here?

Regards
WOWBOY

[Outoftheblue22]

Could be wrong, but I think the Saab 2000 can operate in/out of PLH, but with a payload penalty.

[footster]

Sorry if it sounds as if I use these threads to council bash but it is a fact that this council as with previous councils have a lack of ambition, foresight and funding for the airport. Whilst this council has ringfenced part of the surrounding land the chance to expand the airport was lost when previous councils sold of the surrounding land for developement and the council is now frightened of its life of the neighbours and the compensation claims that could arise from an expansion if it where possible.As for a new airport that is a non-starter in my book because of the enviromental aspects etc. and again funding and if Sutton Harbours proposals for an airport in the South Hams are anything togo by it would rely on the sale of Exeter Airport which DCC certainly wouldnt agree to.I for one would love to see an expanded airport or even a new one built but I'm afraid I cant see it ever happening what weve got is what we have to settle for I do hope i'm wrong but I cant see it.Unfortunately Newquay will go same way with the council at its helm. It would be interesting to see what other people on this thread think.
:sad:

[GROUNDHOG]

Footster - You are quite right Council's are not usually much cop at running anything - airports do seem to be a particular disaster area and I can think of several examples!

[ryan2000]

Cork and Plymouth has been linked since 1975 one of the longest running services between Ireland and the UK. Even in the totally different aviation environment of the 1970's and 1980's Brymon made it work.

Surely this route can be re-established even if Air Wales are not interested.

[MerchantVenturer]

footster

Whilst wholeheartedly agreeing with you and Groundhog that local authorities should not be running airports and that when they pass into private hands they invariably do much better, as far as I am aware Plymouth City Airport is owned and operated by Sutton Harbour Holdings plc, a Plymouth-based publicly quoted group.

The airport owners are of course subject to planning and other constraints imposed by local authorities and other official bodies, but that is the case with any airport.

You seem to be suggesting that PLH's ills relate to poor decisions by local authorities in the past.

Again I would say that PLH is not unique in this. My own local airport at BRS, although doing extremely well of late, does possess inbuilt handicaps that can be traced back to lack of foresight in the local authority of the 1950s (the then owners of Bristol Airport) who rejected the chance to re-locate from Whitchurch to the infinitely more promising and larger Filton site in favour of the wind-swept and fog-bound hilltop at Lulsgate.

I'm not sure what funding you have in mind that the local authority could legally give to assist the airport owners at PLH. The SWRDA could certainly help if so minded but do not seem inclined to assist South West aviation financially in the way that, for example, similar bodies in Wales and Scotland are doing.

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone know why you can't book any flights out of Plymouth on the Air Wales website and why Cork is no longer listed?

[Stone Cold II]

Because Air Wales is pulling all these routes apart from Newcastle and moving them to Exeter.

[WOWBOY]

Because Air Wales is pulling all these routes apart from Newcastle and moving them to Exeter.

Where you here this from?

They said they will remain comitted to PLH!!

They better not pull out :mad: :{

[Stone Cold II]

I used to work for Air Wales and Mrs Stone Cold still works for them, plus I see my former work mates all the time since I go into Red Dragon HQ from time to time as well as joining them in all the parties. It's also been said on another thread on pprune.

They are pulling the PLH-ORK, PLH-DUB and moving these to Exeter, well I think the DUB is going to be operated out of Exeter or it will be scrapped completely, but the PLH-CWL-NCL will continue with a aircraft night stopping at PLH as normal.

However this is Air Wales and the chairman is well known for changing his mind as often as the weather changes but this seems to be the master plan at the moment and it hasn't changed for a while now.

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone know if anybody has shown interest in the recently axed PLH-DUB route?
It was a great loss!!

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Stone Cold, I see you are still on here discussing the antics of the airborne version of the RNIB Registered Charity. :)


How are you mate?:ok:

[Stone Cold II]

Not bad, I have one last trip on the Boeing and then I start the conversion course for the plastic french plane with the playstation joystick.:uhoh:

A few people from 6G are starting at the great orange machine.

How you getting on with the course? :ok:

[No_Speed_Restriction]

The cost of the type rating has, unfortunately, taken the fun out of the course. Who else is joining you lot?

[Charlie Fox]

No more Air Wales flights beyond 19th Feb!!

[stolport]

Have received this email from Air Wales themselves:

quote

"Unfortunately, all services from Plymouth to Cardiff will be cancelled
from the 20th February 2006. This was a very difficult decision to
reach; however, due to lack of profitability, we have no option but to
withdraw this service which we have worked hard to establish and
support.

We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Plymouth to Cork will resume from the 27th March 2006; all flights will
operate via Newquay."

[WOWBOY]

Noooooooooooooooooo!!

This is a nightmare :eek: :mad:

There is no suprise though:rolleyes:

Well this will hit the airport badly!!!

[dingodiva]

Stolport, You may have been told that PLH-ORK resumes 27 March but the flight will certainly be empty as no seats are on sale !

[GROUNDHOG]

What on earth is going on here, I thought the plan was Exeter- Newquay-Cork. Sorry Air Wales but I really can't see the point of flying Plymouth to Cork via Newquay. Living in West Cornwall if I wanted to go to Cork I would be forced to drive to Plymouth anyway since there is no alternative?

[WOWBOY]

www.plymouthairport.com have already taken off all the air wales routes on their flight page, although the map needs updated!!

[WOWBOY]

Local News Report on Air Wales pulling out of Plymouth: http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=133188&command=displayContent&sourceNode=133171&contentPK=13992528&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=filtersearch

[No_Speed_Restriction]

STOP PRESS: New word entered into the Air Wales dictionary: Advertising. Local critics baffled by the mystery word

[side-saddled]

I see Plymouth's returning to having all its eggs in one basket again.
Air SouthWest instead of Brymon this time, and still no sign of the runways being developed yet!
When Sutton Harbour say it's thinking of developing the airport do they mean into affordable housing?

[Jamesair]

Does the scrapping of the Aberdeen - Newcastle and Cardiff - Plymouth sectors of the Air Wales route now open the possibility of the once talked about Newquay - Newcastle - Aberdeen route by Air Southwest starting?

[Dash-7 lover]

WOWBOY - check your previous posts - YOU said Air Southwest might be interested??

[WOWBOY]

Yes I just relised that i was having a "blonde" moment sorry :O

[footster]

I see your not far from the truth there side-saddled when you say about Plymouth returning to having all its eggs in one basket again,
and still no sign of the runways being developed yet!
If Sutton Harbour Holdings have any desire to put Plymouth Airport where it belongs as far as a regional airport goes (It will never be anything else with the nimbys around it) it is time for them to invest heavilly and get their fingers out. Time has already gone onto long and as per normal with things that are supposed to happen down here we spend years talking about it and not doing.:

[footster]

I have heard today that Airsouthwest have not long taken delivery of their fifth Dash 8 from Bombardier and are due to take their sixth in the next two months eventually having a total of ten. Anybody any ideas where they were previously in service. Also apparently the extension to the runway is supposedly due to start towards the end of this year. Anybody also heard this.If this is the case bring it on the sooner the better:)

[WOWBOY]

All I know is that later this month the fifth aircraft, named 'Cloud Surfer', will be deliverd in time for the new routes, starting on April 10.

[Dash-7 lover]

The latest aircraft GWOWE should be there by now and is formerly GBRYI . . . .

[footster]

It is reported on the ASW website that they have carried 500,000 passengers since their launch in 2003.This is great news for air travellers in the south west. Hopefully Sutton Harbour Holdings won't do to ASW what happened to Brymon and sell to a bigger airline and then watch it disapear from the southwest. All the very best to them and long may it continue and stay a southwest based airline.:ok:

[GBALU53]

Keep the good work going before one knows Swallow number six G_WOWF could be roud the corner or is it in the pipe line??

[footster]

As far as I am aware it wont be long for G-WOWF to enter service. It will probably be based at Bristol.

[WOWBOY]

First i have heard of G-WOWF, but still it looks promising!!!

[tallaonehotel]

G-WOWF....

I hope it isn't the former BRYJ....?

[footster]

As far as I am aware this is being geared up for an eventuall total of 10 dash 8 aircraft.

[GBALU53]

WOWBOY

In view of Air Wales packing schedule flying up towards the end of next month/ will they be getting these Dashs a lot quicker??:ok: :ok:

Good for the Westcountry but not for the Welsh.

[Devonair]

WOWBOY
In view of Air Wales packing schedule flying up towards the end of next month/ will they be getting these Dashs a lot quicker??:ok: :ok:
Good for the Westcountry but not for the Welsh.
Not so good news for the Westcountry. What about those people booked on Air Wales from Exeter and Newquay to Cork? Suppose they can always fly to Dublin and either get a connecting flight or make the 257km over land.

[WOWBOY]

I hope that the EXT-ORK and NQY-ORK services are picked up the are profitable!!

Flybe or Air Southwest could take over the routes!!!

[GROUNDHOG]

WOWBOY -If you are trying to say Newquay to Cork is a viable route I would love to know what you base that assumption on. 35 years commercial experience tells me it would never have stood a cat in hell's chance!

[WOWBOY]

Sorry I was actaully meant EXT to ORK as it looks like it could be profitable!!!

[GBALU53]

Air Southwest could do a Dan Air.

Opperate Plymouth-Jersey-Bristol-Cardiff-Bristol-Jersey-Plymouth or a combination part there of???:ok: :ok:

[MerchantVenturer]

Air Southwest could do a Dan Air.
Opperate Plymouth-Jersey-Bristol-Cardiff-Bristol-Jersey-Plymouth or a combination part there of???:ok: :ok:
Air Southwest already does operate part thereof, has done so since this airline commenced operations, viz, BRS-PLH-JER-PLH-BRS (flight leaves BRS mid morning and returns early afternoon).

In the days of Brymon (BA franchise) one of the daily CDG flights from BRS used to route via PLH and JER. It was a bit of a non-musical mystery tour for some unsuspecting pax from BRS going all the way to CDG.

It may be that WOW, or someone else, are trying to work out a way of serving JER from CWL.

Not strictly appropriate to this thread but your mentioning Dan Air reminded me that IMO one of the many mistakes Air Wales made was in not following the precedents of previous Welsh-based carriers like Cambrian Airways, and in later days of Airways International Cymru and Inter European in the charter field, of flying out of BRS as well as CWL, on some routes serving both, as you have suggested.

Air Wales could have had a thriving network out of BRS before the likes of Air Southwest, Aer Arann and Eastern got in there.

[GBALU53]

Merchant Venturer

I do know where you are coming from.:ok:

The good old days if i remember where there was timed trials in the Viscount from Bristol to Cardiff in the very good old days when Cambrian operated the Jersey-Bristol-Cardiff route.:* :*

They were the good old days before you know who took them under there wing.:sad: :sad:

If only we could turn the clock back and learn by some of the errors that have been made in aviation in the last thirty years the Vickers Viscount and big Brother the Vanguard and the BAC One Eleven may still have been the back bone of avition within the U.K.:ok: :ok:

As the saying goes ,there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots this must apply to other areas within aviation??:ok: :ok:

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

If only we could turn the clock back and learn by some of the errors that have been made in aviation in the last thirty years the Vickers Viscount and big Brother the Vanguard and the BAC One Eleven may still have been the back bone of avition within the U.K.:ok: :ok:


I would tend to say that it was aircraft like the Viscount, Vanguard and One-Eleven (as good as they were) that were responsible for the poor performance and short longevity of many UK airlines in the post-WW2 years. They were too big, too expensive and too fuel-inefficient for the market. Of course, this isn't the full story, as other factors were at work as well, like regulated air fares, but very often there was over-confidence by management and far too much capacity represented by these otherwise fine aircraft.

[WOWBOY]

Do you think we will ever see Skybus flights to the Scilly Isles again from Plymouth?

I also saw a Skybus DH6 in PLH, when I got of my recent flight anyone know why the aircraft was here?

[side-saddled]

Not 100% sure WOWBOY but the only time the Skybus normally lands at Plymouth is due to weather diversions or because of an emergency I would have thought.

As for flying to the Scilly Isles, I doubt it. I reckon they get a bigger customer base operating out of Exeter than they ever would from Plymouth.

Would be nice to have them return though.

[WOWBOY]

What do you think the future holds for Plymouth Airport in terms of
routes, as it has lost many services recently and it's home airline
(air southwest) hasn't added any new services for this years expansion,
as they seem to be focusing on Bristol, Newquay and soon Cardiff i
would assume.
I feel we could see PLH-CWL-LBA in the next expansion!

I raise this question/point becuase of a news report i read about 6
airlines in the frame to starting flights from NQY to possibly France
and germany if they come to agreement with Newquay Airport and Exeter
is doing well with the sucess of Flybe. Obviously Plymouth has a bigger
population and Catchment area and yet it lacks many vital services or a
half decent size Airport/Runway.

Are there any plans to expand the runway?, If so what aircraft would be
able to operate into the airport if the runway is expanded?


Have there being any rumours of any expansion from Plymouth by airlines
or has it all been quiet?

[Devonair]

[QUOTE=WOWBOY]
Obviously Plymouth has a bigger
population and Catchment area and yet it lacks many vital services or a
half decent size Airport/Runway.

Plymouth does seem to be in the process of being squeezed from the west by Newquay and the East by Exeter.

Plymouth maybe larger than Exeter, but Exeter's catchment area is larger than Plymouth's. The Devon's population (outside Plymouth) is around 3/4 million, many Plymothians seem to forget that! The further west you go along the SW peninsular the smaller the catchment area becomes. Exeter's includes Torquay, Paignton and the towns on Devon's South East Coast (Teignmouth, Dawlish and Newton Abbot) aswell as North Cornwall, North & East Devon, West Somerset and West Dorset. Indeed for flights such as Toronto and Brest it probably extends up to Bristol.

I think Plymouth should try and get a route to the Midlands. Maybe Air Southwest are happy with the runway at its present length? It means they'll probably have the airport to themselves and they can get on with serving the Plymouth/SE Cornwall area with a few niche services. I heard Flybe were trying to get slots into LGW... EXT to LGW would be very interesting!

[minimal77]

The runway can only be extended in length, allowing larger Dash8-400s to get in and that's about it.
The real problem is the width which can't really be addressed without a lot of money as the council have allowed too many houses to encroach on the airfield.

As for routes ASW would probably have been better off running a trip to the delights of Paris rather than Norwich but I'm no expert on these things.
And yes Devonair, they don't want any competition to encroach on their own terf.

Anyway WOWBOY, I would have thought you'd be in a better position to answer your own questions than the rest of us. How's the new job going?

[WOWBOY]

How's the new job going?


What New Job? :confused:

[jimbo canuck]

Re G-BRYJ, this is now C-FEXZ and is currently sitting at North Bay in an all-white colour scheme. It could be going somewhere soon...

[WOWBOY]

If anyone is interested;

York Aviation has released it's study/report into the future of Plymouth airport.
It is an interesting read and the plans are great and hopefully Plymouth will get the longer extension:}

Here it is: http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/kc20_plymouth_airport_final_report.doc.pdf

The people who put this together have don a great job :ok:

[GROUNDHOG]

Sorry WOWBOY but did you actually read it?

I hope that Sutton Harbour Holdings payed for that and not the local taxpayers. I have only glanced at the relevant points but can smell the bullsh*t from deepest darkest Cornwall.

Very professional I am sure but it changes what exactly.....

[DANNYBOY22]

hello all!
only my second post. wahey!
just to clarify some points.
air aerann are to operate NQY-ORK, not sure if it routes elsewhere?
skybus only drops into PLH with wx diversions, they prefer to go into NQY or EXT when poss. Skybus could do some scheduled flights at PLH poss SOU-PLH-ISC. Would be more likrly if they could get a third otter.
cheers

[MerchantVenturer]

GROUNDHOG

Apparently it was prepared for Plymouth City Council, at least in part, so I suppose public money did come into it.

I take your point about froth and spin, and are the master plans of our regional airports in this corner of Britain (and almost certainly elsewhere) any different?

One or two things did take my eye.

There is a suggestion that if NQY closed the PLH-LGW sector on its own might be questionable as to viability.

There was apparently confusion over the RESAs with SouthWest believing it couldn't increase flight numbers due to the CAA's decision concerning limitations at the eastern end which the authority than changed its mind over.

According to the report SouthWest has indicated it will now fly more routes out of PLH as a result.

The mini hub at BRS was presumably not a success with South West commenting on delays at times awaiting a late-running connecting aircraft to arrive. The airline seems to have overcome this by basing an aircraft at BRS.

In another thread some are suggesting that SouthWest start a CWL-NCL so that pax from the NorthEast could change at CWL for NQY. Based on its BRS experience, SouthWest might not be too keen.

The bottom line, as you mentioned elsewhere, is that for PLH to have any chance of long-term success the runway must be extended and the apron enlarged. It has taken an expensive report to discover what any local plane spotter could probably have told them.

The problem must be the finance though, because even with the 'best' runway option there would still be no concrete guarantee that the airport would succeed.

It seems that Plymouth City Council is as much concerned with image ("we must have a suitable airport to reflect the city's status") as with the economic and social benefits a successful airport would bring.

There is a a first-class facility less than an hour along the Devon Expressway, only it happens to be called Exeter. I wonder if a name changeto Devon or South West England Airport would soothe some of the sensibilities.:eek:

[GROUNDHOG]

Merchant Venturer

Agree with you and the report, Plymouth to Gatwick would probably stand little chance of survival on its own. As trains get faster and the A303 is upgraded Plymouth gets closer all the time to the South East and London. Any suggestion in the report that if Newquay closed Plymouth might become the "gateway to Cornwall" is way off the mark in my view.

Plymouth route network hasn't changed much in the last fourty years that I can remember so I see no reason why it should in the future with a good alternative so nearby and I have no doubt like everywhere else NIMBY neighbours. The Council may want to keep its showcase airport but how long will the ratepayers want to pay for it, I suggest 99% would rather see the cash spent on better local services in other areas.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just stumbled across this thread,
I guess times have changed at NQY (Nookie) since the early eighties and the two clapped out fuel bowsers 'Sweaty Betty' & 'Fat Ann'.

There was a time or two when the diesel had frozen in the tank that they 'reportedly' lit a bonfire under the bowser to thaw the fuel :))

Around the same time during the summers at PLH, once the evening LGW & LHR departures had gone, it was cricket on the airfield, if one knocked it over the runway it was a four and play would stop if the controller shouted of an inbound aircraft from the balcony of his pink control tower :))

Oh, the good ol' days!

[footster]

After quickly browsing through the report option 3 the lengthening of the runway and the Resa seems the only way togo if it is to give PLY any chance of success. But im afraid this is trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.There is way to much housing and industrial units around the place thanks to councils who did not have any foresight.Plus it has been left in EXT wake because of this.The talk is of Newquay closing of which I am one because they are having trouble finding the finances to run it which is fair comment but at the sametime the same has tobe said about PLY because of its limitations.So we could in future see the demise of two Council owned airports surprise surprise.

[revik]

Ah, the saga of expansion at Roborough. I'm going to bore you all now but - in the late 70s I wrote my unversity dissertation on the development, past and future, of Plymouth Airport. At that time Brymon, under the original owner, was growing fast and passenger figures were increasing at Plymouth.

My research, much of which was conducted pouring over the archives in the City library, revealed the sorry stories of airport plans dating back to post war. The original 'good idea' was the development of Harrowbeer, the former WW2 fighter airfield at Yelverton, but I seem to recall that the National Park put pay to that. Then came a plan to build a new airport across the Tamar outside Saltash. The final scheme which attracted most attention and was perhaps the closest to getting off the ground (sorry!) was the Collaton Cross plan. This was a green field (literally) development in the South Hams (I guess twixt Ivybridge and Yealmpton) but as with its forerunners, lack of political will and economic drive, specifically from Plymouth, saw it fall by the wayside. Devon County Council has always favoured Exeter for development; I can't think why?

There was always talk that the land at the Estover end of the airport had been earmarked for runway extension and, indeed, I had heard on my now infrequent visits home, that a number of the industrial units had been vacated in recent years for that eventuality.

There has always been the inter urban rivalry with Exeter but I believe that a solution to Devon and Cornwall's air transport needs lies in the resurrection of that Collaton Cross project. Exeter has an unbalanced catchment divide between Bristol to the nothwest and nowhere to the southwest. Collaton would be around equal in driving time from Exeter and Plymouth, that little bit closer for Cornish travellers and provide an option for those to the northwest of Exeter who could choose Bristol.

Devon International is surely the way ahead. I would have thought facilities akin to those at Bristol would be more than adequate. All you people down there have to do is convince the politicians.

Sorry if I bored you too much.:ok:

[Phileas Fogg]

One the RAF move out of St Mawgan Newquay Airport will become another Manston, a large airfield but without the catchment area to justify it. What Manston has in it's favour is that it is ideally placed for weather diversions from the London area and the close continent whereas St Mawgan, well it might attract a St. Just, Penzance helicopter or PLH diversion but that's about it and it is a very much larger airfield than Manston, it has the widest runway, 9000ft x 300ft, in the country and with the tower etc. on the RAF side.

What Cornwall needs is a centrally located modest airport, perhaps a 7000ft runway but a longer one might be convenient for the occasional fuel stop before a heavy crosses the pond, a modest terminal, perhaps a freight facility, and with good road and perhaps rail connections and not a bl00dy great airfield & RAF camp the size of St. Mawgan, particularly one at an elevation of some 600ft.

So why not develop somewhere like the former RAF Portreath:

http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=167500&Y=46000&width=500&height=300&gride=169993.93580439&gridn=41995.2703633421&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&pc=&zm=1&scale=25000

OK, it seems to have about 4 runways but from the pic it appears only one runway has been maintained, a cross runway is always handy for crosswind conditions, but development can be concentrated on a tailor made commercial airport rather than an RAF base with a civilian terminal as far away as possible.

Portreath is about 2 miles off the A30 and about 3 miles from a railway line and Redruth station, it is in a non built up area and has approaches over the sea.

If the RAF are to pull the plug on St Mawgan then perhaps it might be the right time for Cornwall's airport to make a clean break and start anew.