We seem to be getting better

[Mike Cross]

At pre-flight briefing.

The UK AIS website stats which can be found at http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/en/useage1.gif indicate that both the number of logins and briefings served is up on last year (with the exception of February, which is probably weather related). Over 700 logins and over 550 briefings PER DAY delivered during March.

[LondonJ]

I think it may well have something to do with Notam plot (and similar programs). You could spend literally hours if you are inexperienced (i.e. me) looking through all the co-ordinates to find conflicts.

[Monocock]

What's a NOTAM?
































:ooh:

[Sir George Cayley]

A NOTAW:=

Sir George Cayley

[Laundryman]

I think NOTAM is short for NO TAMishanter (spelling) which in turn is Scotish for "I've lost my hat" I could be wrong of course.

[S-Works]

I think it might be IT Technical speak meaning no use whatsoever for a useless and confusing site that pumps out information relevant for someones else flight but never your own.

[BEagle]

But it's sooooo useful for learning that someone is training buzzards in the London FIR......

With modern IT, why can't there be an interactive method of entering points on a map (e.g. MS Autoroute style 'drawing pins'), then asking for NOTAMs to be displayed pictorially and in text form for a user-specified time period and distance from the route. E.g. from 0900-1300 tomorrow for anything within 30 miles of the specified track?

The plethora of co-ordinates in the UK NOTAM brief make it virtually useless for quick reference - it's almost just a TCIC site for the UK AIS.

[Mike Cross]

OK BEagle, I'll rise to the bait.

Use the Narrow Route Brief. That does precisely what you want.
It wants to know:-
A briefing ID - anything you want - it's for your reference.
Where you are going from
Where you are going to
How high you are going to fly.

If you enter only that info you will get a brief giving all NOTAM affecting a corridor 10nm either side of the direct track between your departure and arrival a/d's plus NOTAM for the two a/d. It will be suitable for VFR and IFR, will include Nav Warnings, and will be valid for 48 Hrs from when you click the button.

You can filter it down more by tweaking the controls.

If you want to work your way through the entire FIR brief be my guest, but if you learn how to drive the thing you will find life a lot easier.

Mike

[High Wing Drifter]

Mike,

I think it is more likely the model rocket, falconary and RC aero clubs realised what a good tool it is for locating meetings!

[BEagle]

"Use the Narrow Route Brief. That does precisely what you want.
It wants to know:-
A briefing ID - anything you want - it's for your reference.
Where you are going from
Where you are going to
How high you are going to fly.

Except that it requires me to log in every damn time, it has that stupid arse-about-face way of entering the time and date (why no drop down?), it doesn't understand aerodromes without ICAO locators, it doesn't seem to allow intermediate waypoints to be entered in lat and long (or if it does, it isn't obvious), doesn't display the results on a printable map....

And quite what exclude NOTAMs with effective date earlier than () days. (Range 1-999, leave blank to include all) means, I don't know. Why not use the date?

Sorry, it needs to be better.

How do you enter "I want to fly from Enstone to Bourn via the Olney VRP tomorrow at 2500ft and want NOTAMs to cover 10 nm from track from 0900 to 1700"?

[High Wing Drifter]

BEagle,

Intermediates can be entered thus:

DCT 5137N00156W DCT 5120N00145W DCT

[Aussie Andy]

BEagle, surely at least it's better than the old system, i.e. a great long list that you had to wade through!I want to fly from Enstone to Bourn via the Olney VRP tomorrow at 2500ft and want NOTAMs to cover 10 nm from track from 0900 to 1700"?OK, it could be better, but it's hardly unusable (not since all the efforts of Mike Cross & co at the start!). It's not onerous to login ... you have to login to Met Office, or Av Brief, or the French OLIVIA systems for example too. Here is how to enter the route you suggest:

Departure a/d EGTK (ok, it's not Enstone but it's nearby...)
Arrival a/d EGSN
From 050508 0900
To 050508 1700
FL020 (it's +/- 4,000')
Route: DCT DTY222019 [= Enstone] DCT DTY100015 [= Olney] DCTThe waypoints take about 10 seconds to calculate. How hard is that? If you think it's easier to look at the whole long list, then don't bother with the Narrow Route Briefing, and just use the AREA BRIEF instead if you prefer (not sure why you would).

Here is the result from the above query for tomorrow: Pre-Flight Information Bulletin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRE-FLIGHT NARROW U N I T E D K I N G D O M
INFORMATION ROUTE AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION SERVICE (NATS LTD)
BULLETIN R0701128 05/05/07 20:10 UTC
UK AIS Telephone: +44 (0) 20 8745 3464. WEB SITE: WWW.AIS.ORG.UK

PERIOD: 05/05/08 09:00 UTC TO 05/05/08 17:00 UTC

PIB INCLUDES NOTAM/SNOWTAM/BIRDTAM

FLIGHT NUMBER: TEST ADEP: EGTK ADES: EGSN
TRAFFIC: VFR PURPOSE: GENERAL AND MISCELLANEOUS
HEIGHT: +/-4000FT WIDTH: +/-10NM SUBJECT:

ALTN:
FIR : EGTT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F020 DCT DTY222019 DCT DTY100015 DCT

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INCLUDES ALL NOTAM AVAILABLE

A E R O D R O M E - I N F O R M A T I O N :

AERODROME (DEPARTURE) - EGTK (OXFORD KIDLINGTON) :

NO INFO RECEIVED OR MATCHING THE QUERY.

AERODROME (DESTINATION) - EGSN (BOURN) :

NO INFO RECEIVED OR MATCHING THE QUERY.

E N - R O U T E - I N F O R M A T I O N :

EGTT (LONDON) :

RAC : FROM 05/04/13 12:36 TO PERM B0721/05
E)UNLICENSED AERODROMES-LANDING AND TAKE OFF NEAR OPEN AIR
ASSEMBLIES:
RULE 5 OF THE RULES OF THE AIR REGULATIONS 1996 HAS BEEN AMENDED.
FOR LANDING AND TAKE OFF WITHIN 1000 METRES OF AN ORGANISED OPEN AIR
ASSEMBLY OF MORE THAN 1000 PERSONS COMPLIANCE IS REQUIRED WITH
PROCEDURES NOTIFIED BY THE CAA. AT A LANDING SITE OTHER THAN AN
AERODROME THE WRITTEN PERMISSION OF THE ORGANISER OF THE ASSEMBLY IS
ALSO REQUIRED. FULL DETAILS OF THE PROCEDURES ARE AVAILABLE ON THE
CAA WEBSITE WWW.CAA.CO.UK AND WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE NEXT AMENDMENT
OF THE UK AIP.
REF UK AIP GEN 1-6 REFERS


RAC : FROM 04/05/01 00:01 TO PERM B0741/04
E)PENNINE RADAR WITHDRAWN.
PILOTS REQUIRING AN ATS WI THE FORMER PENNINE AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY
SHOULD CONTACT LATCC (MIL) (CALLSIGN LONDON MIL) ON FREQ 135.275
ENR 1-6-6-1 REFERS


OTH : FROM 05/05/02 12:58 TO 06/01/31 09:00 EST N0061/05
E)OXFORD JOHN RADCLIFFE HOSPITAL. 3 CRANES ADJACENT TO SITE.
ALL HEL TO CALL HOSPITAL SWITCHBOARD BEFORE USE TO ENSURE CRANE JIBS
NOT OBSTRUCTING HEL LDG SITE. MAX 249FT AGL.


OTH : FROM 05/05/02 13:03 TO 05/12/07 10:00 EST N0062/05
E)SANDY HEATH OBST LGT U/S. PSN 520748N 0001430W HGT 972FT/AMSL
790FT/AGL


OTH : FROM 05/05/04 15:16 TO PERM B0905/05
E)AIR NAVIGATIONAL OBSTACLE
SINGLE UNLIT WIND TURBINE FOLLOWING DETAILS:
COL 1. LONGHILL (REF NUMBER TBN)
COL 2. TURB S
COL 3. 523426N 0000510E
COL 4. 365 351
COL 5. NO
UK AIP REFERS ENR 5-4-1-6 (23 DEC 04) COLUMN 1-5


OTH : FROM 05/03/29 14:43 TO 05/06/06 16:00 EST N0042/05
E)OBST LGT ON THE STEEL LATTICE TOWER TO THE NORTH OF THE HELICOPTER
LANDING SITE AT RAF BRAMPTON IS UNLIT, HGT 130FT


NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 13:35 TO 05/05/08 14:05 H0879/05
E) AUS 05-05-0141/957/AS1
AIR DISPLAY. FLYPAST BY BBMF ACFT WI 2NM RADIUS 5200N 00044W
(BLETCHLEY PARK, MILTON KEYNES)
F)SFC G)2000FT AGL


NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 12:55 TO 05/05/08 13:25 H0743/05
E)AUS 05-05-0063/810/AS3
AIR DISPLAY. FLYPAST BY BBMF LANCASTER ACFT WI 2NM RADIUS 5224N
00005W (HUNTINGDON).
F)SFC G)2000FT AGL


NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 13:30 TO 05/05/08 14:00 H0691/05
E) AUS 05-05-0064/760/AS1
AIR DISPLAY. FLYPAST BY FORMATION OF BBMF ACFT WI 2NM RADIUS
5208N 00047W (STOKE GOLDINGTON, BUCKS)
F)SFC G)2000FT AGL


NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 12:45 TO 05/05/08 13:15 H0860/05
E) AUS 05-05-0016/938/AS2
FREEFALL TEAM PJE WI 2NM RADIUS 5201N 00013W (STOTFOLD MILL, NEAR
HITCHEN, HERTS). DROP TIME 1300. HGT SUBJECT TO ATC CLEARANCE.
F)SFC G)10000FT AGL


NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 08:45 TO 05/05/08 20:15 H1002/05
E) AUS 05-05-0017/1088/AS5
KITE FLYING 2NM RADIUS 5208N 00025W (BEDFORD).
F)SFC G)1500FT AGL


NAVW: A)EGSU FROM 05/05/06 14:00 TO 05/05/08 17:00 H0647/05
D)MAY 06 1400-1730, 07-08 1200-1700
E) AUS 05-05-0015/717/AS1
AIR DISPLAY WI 3NM RADIUS 5205N 00008E (DUXFORD, CAMBS).
AIC 13/2005 (MAUVE 138) REFERS.
F)SFC G)4000FT AMSL


NAVW: A)EGSU FROM 05/05/07 12:15 TO 05/05/08 17:00 J1705/05
D)1215-1700
E) AUS 05-05-0004/1066/DAPLC
DUXFORD AIRSHOW. RESTRICTION OF FLYING REGULATIONS HAS BEEN MADE
UNDER ARTICLE 85 OF THE ANO 2000. NO ACFT SHALL FLY WITHIN AREA
BOUNDED BY CIRCLE RADIUS 2.2NM CENTRED AT 520527N 0000755E (DUXFORD)
EXCEPT FLYING WITH PRIOR PERMISSION OF DUXFORD FLYING DISPLAY
DIRECTOR OR IN THE SERVICE OF CAMBRIDGE POLICE.
AIC 13/2005 (MAUVE 138) REFERS.
F)SFC G)4000FT AMSL

END.

Andy :ok:

[BEagle]

Well, I tried entering lat/long but kept getting 'syntax error'.....

Thanks anyway - it is indeed better than the previous system.

I'd still prefer to be able to 'stick pins' in an electronic version of the CAA 1/2 mill chart to define my route.

And to have drop-downs for the time and date.

And to have the resulting NOTAMs displayed on a chart showing position and radius of activity where applicable.

[Aussie Andy]

And you can have all those things, but not entirely for free: get yourself a copy of "Notam Plot" (free s/w from http://www.notamplot.flyer.co.uk/) and a subscription to Avbrief (free for "registered guests" for NOTAM in EGTT, EGPX, EGGX, subscription required for NOTAM from EISN, LFFF, LFRR) and you can see the NOTAMs plotted on the map.

Andy :ok:

[Mike Cross]

The sticking pins on the map idea is attractive but some of the NOTAM affecting your route will have their centres off your map. This is because they have a very large radius of influence (e.g. a long-range navaid u/s or a notification of a number of geographically separated restricted areas like nuclear sites).

Ian Fallon has done a good job with NotamPlot, helped by AvBrief providing the data feed. Peter Mundy and Olof Bakker have made a start with Navbox providing a smilar facility but last time I looked it still had a long way to go.

And as for that "stupid arse-about-face way of entering the time and date", you can thank the inventors of the machine you fly for that. As the two bicycle mechanics from Dayton Ohio were American, ICAO chose their way of writing dates. You have to write it the same way for a flight plan so you may as well get used to it. Ditto for the route syntax by the way.

ICAO indicators are hardly difficult to find, they are after all printed on your chart next to the a/d. a/d names are not unique worldwide and this is a resource with worldwide capability. If you put Manchester in do you mean
EGCB (Manchester Barton)
EGCC (Manchester International)
EGCD (Manchester Woodford)
or
KMHT (Manchester, New Hampshire)?

Try clicking the down arrow next to the box you need to fill in and you will get a search screen that allows you to fill in the name. Try sticking X in the ICAO code box on the search screen and you will get a list of dummy ICAO codes that have been created to cover UK a/d that do not have their own code.

Lastly, spend half an hour reading the documentation, it's worth the effort.

Mike

[jabberwok]

Try sticking X in the ICAO code box on the search screen and you will get a list of dummy ICAO codes that have been created to cover UK a/d that do not have their own code.

That doesn't work for me - it throws up a box saying that "Only EG locations are allowed".

Under PIB Help there is a document called UK AIS Additional Locations which gives a list of the X codes (like XLOC for Locking) but I can't seem to use these in the Departure or Destination boxes..

jb

[rustle]

jabberwok if that doesn't work for you it may be because when you set up your AIS account you selected "UK FIR only".

You need multiple FIR access to use the "X" codes.

[jabberwok]

Ah.. Got it now.

I couldn't see how to alter the FIR limitation in the user settings so I had to create a new account. Fiddly but it now works.

jb

[BEagle]

Why should it require half an hour to 'read the manual'? That implies that the system is insufficiently intuitive. As is anything which is 'fiddly, but now works'......

Still, it will only improve with user feedback.

And WTF is 'route syntax'? Plain English please, not geekspeak!

Drop downs for time and date should be the norm - let the software translate that into ar$e-about-face flight plan date/times IF required.

[Aussie Andy]

Hi BEagle,Why should it require half an hour to 'read the manual'? You've spent more time than that getting us to tell you how it works...!

Anyd :ok:

[rustle]

Why should it require half an hour to 'read the manual'? That implies that the system is insufficiently intuitive.
No it doesn't.

If anything it implies there's a lot of information that can be filtered in a myriad different ways depending on what you want out of it - like any good toolset.

Anyone who has bothered to get to grips with the interface has probably saved their "favorites" and can self brief in less time than it took to write this reply :D

[Mike Cross]

And WTF is 'route syntax'? Plain English please, not geekspeak!
Apologies. I credited you with more erudition than you have. Syntax is Plain English. Geek is slang, originating in the 1800's.

Syntax, noun, the grammatical arrangement of words in a sentence

From the Latin syntaxis or the Greek suntaxis.

In the case of the AIS website the arrangement of words in the route box (i.e. it's syntax) follows the same rules that apply to an ICAO Flight Plan Route.

Acceptable
Navaid Identifier eg: POL - Polehill VOR
Airways Waypoint eg: FAWBO
Radial & Distance from a Navaid eg: SAM180030
LAT & LONG 7 character eg: 54N001W
LAT & LONG 11 character eg: 5430N00130W
Airways Route: can be used if flying IFR on an ATS route

NOT acceptable
ICAO/IATA/AIS Airport Location Indicators
Visual Reporting Points (VRP): Use LAT & LONG

Remember to start the Route box/field with DCT and place DCT between Route points and finally DCT at the end.


Alles klaar?

Mike

[BEagle]

OK - But 'Enter Route in ICAO Flight Plan format' might be a simpler instruction. I do know what 'syntax' means, but I've never heard of it in the context of 'route syntax'.

Geek is a word in the new Oxford Dictionary.

Suntaxis are "Cor blimey, peeps is wha' cousin Stavros drive tourists round Asbestos, Domestos, Argos and Pathos in, innit' mate"! Syntaxis - or even better, Sin taxis, sound much more fun.

Shall now invent an imaginary 'square' route which will generate a NOTAM summary for my local area and save it as a 'favourite'.

Danke!

[Mike Cross]

Don't do a square route, there's an easier way.

Pick two a/d with ICAO codes that straddle the area you want to brief for, i.e. the area you want to brief for sits in beween them.

Use them as your departure and arrival a/d

Draw a line between them and decide how much either side of this line you want the info for. Set this as your Narrow Route Width.

For example up near the top left of the southern half mil is a microlight site at Otherton, it lies between Cosford and Tatenhill, which are around 20nm apart. set a narrow route width of 10nm and you've defined a 400 square mile box between them.

http://mrc0001.users.btopenworld.com/webimages/local.JPG

If there are any aerodromes within the area that you want NOTAM for then set them as alternates.

Fill in the Briefing id as something meaningful, e.g. Local.

Any time you want to use it go to the Briefing Handbook and re-use it, it will be listed under the name you chose.

Mike

[Mike Cross]

BEagle

Check your PM's - you have an invitation!

Mike

[Jimbo & the Jet Set]

Theres a lot of critism on this thread. So I would like to be positive and say Thank You to the likes of Mike Cross and the gentleman who wrote the brilliant NotamPlot (whose name I've temporarily forgotten).

The situation is not perfect from the VFR/PPL standpoint. But it has been greatly enhanced from the position we were in before. We should be grateful to those who further the development of these systems for our benefit.

[Mike Cross]

Thanks Jimbo, Ian Fallon is the name you're groping for. He got one of the Flyer awards last year.

Mike

[DuncanF]

Am I being a muppet? I'm told that the AIS site can do briefings covering other FIR's, but try as I might I just get the error "only EG locations are allowed" for all airfields and FIR's I enter.

Tried to do one for EGTR to LFAT the other day and ended up having to use AIS one to the coast and then an OLIVIA one.

Any help much appreciated.

Duncan

[rustle]

It may be because when you set up your AIS account you selected "UK FIR only".

You need multiple FIR access.
You cannot change your current access.
You need a new logon.

Anyone getting the feeling of deja vu? :)

[DuncanF]

Muppet indeed! Thanks rustle sorted now.

Duncan

[bletchleytugie]

Folks,

If you wish to change your account from UK only to UK and Foreign, could I suggest that you email the ais supervisor and request that yout account be changed rather than reregister. By doing it this way you can still keep all your prvious brieinfs in yourhandbook and you don't confuese yourself with having two passwords for two accounts.

Regards

Bletchleytugie

[Max AirFactor]

This morning the Red Arrow flew into Biggin for a 'private' visit/display? When I try a narrow route brief starting at EGKB I dont seem to be able to get anything posted for this even if I try and back date the query. Am I driving it incorrectly or was it notamed?

MAF

[Hireandhire]

Max

I found
B)05/05/14 09:45 UTC C)05/05/15 17:15 NAVW (H1003/05)
E)AUS 05-05-0023/1089/AS1
AIR DISPLAY. AEROBATIC DISPLAYS WI 5NM RADIUS 5121N 00016E (BRANDS
HATCH). POC ON THE DAY 07774 816942. AUS ACN 05-05-0023 REFERS.
F)SFC G)2400FT AGL

in under 10 secs on Notamcheck just now.

BTW I don't have any connection with Notamcheck, I'm just having a mank on another thread.

regards
HnH

[Max AirFactor]

H&H

I saw this but the dates are for the weekend? And I think that the Arrow are here...

Saturday
14-May-05
The Ulster VE Day Airshow, Newtonards
Northern Ireland

Sunday
15-May-05
Enniskillen AIr Show
Northern Ireland

They were at Biggin this am as I had heard that egkb was effectively closed. Also Mrs Max texted me to say she saw them fly over. But the notam ?


MAF

[Hireandhire]

Max hi
See what you mean. Missed that.
What do you get if you ring 0500 354802 like we're supposed to everytime we fly? (not)

regards
HnH

[Max AirFactor]

AIS info line reports a temporary restriction at Biggin earlier today 6nm 2400' from 10:25 to 10:57.

I was curious to see if I could specify a time in the past in the narrow brief?

MAF

[rustle]

Here's the NOTAM from the AIS website yesterdayJ1680/05
A)EGKB B)0505121025 C)0505121057
E)AUS 05-05-0020/1035/AS1
TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AIRSPACE HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED UNDER ARTICLE 85 OF THE
ANO 2000 FOR A RED ARROWS DISPLAY WI 6NM RAD 5120N 00002E (BIGGIN HILL)UP TO
2400FT AMSL. AIC 15/2005 (MAUVE 139) AND AUS CAN 05-05-0020 DATED 20 APRIL
05 REFER.
F)SFC G)2400FT AMSL

It had been there since April 20th.

Generally speaking people can't travel back in time, so you cannot find NOTAMs from earlier unless they're still effective. Since this one expired at 10:57 and was not extended it disappeared from the briefings. Imagine the whining if it was still there and people had to read past it at 1500 :rolleyes:

[ShyTorque]

Mike Cross,

We fly up to 12 different sectors a day, sometimes more, not often on repetitive tracks. We often need to read the whole NOTAM brief for the UK. In an attempt to help us cut down wasted time, I requested about 9 months ago that airfields / ATZs included in NOTAM are actually named in para (e) rather than just indicated by their ICAO code letters in para (a). If they are not named, it means looking up what the airfield is. After over 30 years of flying, I still haven't memorised the minor ones.

I was told that this would be "trialled" at the end of last year. It wasn't satisfactorily explained why it was difficult to implement, but the trial never seemed to happen in any event.

Please can this be done?

In the post above, the quoted NOTAM shows EGKB in para (a) and "Biggin Hill" in para (e) - so it CAN be done. I did know where EGKB is though! ;)

[Mike Cross]

ST

I'm not from AIS, just a PPL who has been working with them on some of the problems.

Content of the E line is down to the originator of the NOTAM. AIS are not the originators, they just publish them. Nor are they policy making. That role is down to the CAA's Directorate of Airspace Policy. AIS is part of NATS, which is the agency CAA has licensed to provide the service. While AIS may suggest originators include the a/d name it won't go in there as of right unless CAA/DAP make a ruling to that effect. AIS also work to a set of policy rules known as OPADD (Operational Procedures for AIS Dynamic Data) OPADD is a European set of standards designed to comply with ICAO SARPS (Standards and Recommended Practices). As you will gather from all of this it is important that all AIS's adhere to common standards. Details of OPADD here. (http://www.eurocontrol.int/ais/)

ICAO designators are preferred because they are unique while aerodrome names are not.

If you fly repetitive sectors try naming them using the Briefing ID, then you can pull them straight out of the Briefing Handbook and re-use them.

On the other hand if you work in a limited geographic area rather than the entire FIR then try defining a local area using the technique I've outlined earlier in this thread.

Mike

[ShyTorque]

Mike,

Thanks for the reply and I now understand your involvement better. I have only re-discovered the thread this evening.

My point is that NOTAMS are for aviators, not rule makers so why make it difficult because of some rule or other? Some NOTAM originaters DO supply the airfield name as well as the ICAO - so why can this not be added in all relevant cases?

I note your advice but as i said, we DON'T often fly repetitive sectors. Unfortunately we need to trawl through the whole lot most days, sometimes both FIRs, hence my comment about not being able to memorise the locations from an ICAO code.

We rarely get to sit down and plan a day's flying in advance, it is a "fluid" programme.

Regards,

ShyT

[Mike Cross]

Hi ST

It's precisely because NOTAM are for aviators that there are rules. If you found the NOTAM you got in France, Germany and the US all followed different local rules then you would be stuffed if you were an international pilot. The Brazilian pilot flying for an Americal Airline from Heathrow to Singapore needs to know what he is looking at. It's a global system, not just for local bimblers like me.

By all means drop an email to [email protected] suggesting they put in a/d names as well as the ICAO as a matter of course. If enough perople ask it will probably happen!

And if you are going to be near LHR with time to spare ask them if you can visit, or get a group together to go. They are very receptive to visitors and it's well worth the trip.

Mike

[chrisN]

ShyTorque, not sure if this would help you or not, but my answer to the ICAO indicators/Danger area codes that appear in PIB's is to have a list of those which commonly occur in the areas I am interested in, at the beginning of the word processing document that I paste the PIB into. (I submit my request, copy the data into "Notepad", and copy it from there to my "Notam" document where I edit out the ones I am not interested in before printing.)

That way, when I saw that D215 was activated for yesterday, I just noted that it was Rutland water without having to search the chart for it, and added my note into the printout for my gliding club, which is in East Anglia:

NAVW: FROM 05/05/17 06:30 TO 05/05/25 19:00 D)MAY 17-20, 24, 25 0630-1900
E)DANGER AREA EG D215 Rutland Water. ACTIVATED F)SFC G)2400FT AMSL

I realise that people who might have flights to just about anywhere will not find this a useful tip.

My pet bugbears are the ones like this, where you can't easily tell where the damned thing is going to be [I added the bits in square brackets]:

NAVW: FROM 05/05/25 07:30 TO 05/05/25 17:30 MET RESEARCH FLIGHTS. CALLSIGN METMAN(1XBAE 146 ACFT). DURING PERIOD 0730-1130, ACFT OPERATING SFC TO FL150 ALONG TRACK (WAY POINTS) AS FOLLOWS - START PT CRANFIELD AD 5203N 00145W [SW towards] 5152N 00223W 5143N 00315W 5030N 00600W 5050N 00450W 5001N 00325W 5001N 00200W [then E and N towards] 5040N 00030E 5105N 00130E 5553N 00147E 5241N 00147E 5330N 00130E 5405N 00005E 5500N 00110W END PT NEWCASTLE AIRPORT. DURING PERIOD 1300-1730, [all far north] ACFT WILL OPERATE WI AREAS AS FOLLOWS. AREA D. 6100N 00400W 6100N 00000E 6000N 00000E 5700N 00500E 5500N 00500E 5500N 00400W 6100N 00400W. AND AREA E.[coming south again] 5500N 00200W 5500N 00500E 5230N 00245E 5230N 00000E 5500N 00200W. ACFT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO FLY QUADRANTAL FLS. ACTIVITY MAINLY UNDER LA TCC(MIL)/SCATCC(MIL) ATS. NO SONDES WILL BE DROPPED DURING THESE SORTIES. ALL OPS SUBJECT TO PRIOR ATC CLEARANCE. F)SFC G)FL150

(i) It's hard to appreciate what area is affected; answer, a large part of the UK.
(ii) Just what is a VFR pilot, glider or power, supposed to do? Keep clear of the whole designated area? Treat every unidentified aircraft as non-conforming to rules of the air? (How would one know what type to look for, even if one were an ace at aircraft recognition, which I ain't?)

Chris N.

Oops - I see the aircraft type BAE 146 was mentioned in the NOTAM I quoted - but the rest of my comments stand. Chris N.

[onlyme]

Anyone tried this service?

www.skybook.co.uk/

[18greens]

Beagle, I didn't like it initially but I am happy with it now (after reading the manual) That free guide with Pilot was good at demistifying it.

An up to date list on line has to be better then a week old list distributed by post.

Mike I do still wonder what sequence the NOTAMs come out in. I liked the way the old list was in latitude sequence. What drives the sequence of the AIS list?

[ShyTorque]

Mike, I do fly to Heathrow on occasions, but arriving late evening and usually leaving before 0800 and with another 10 or 11 sectors a day it's highly unlikely I'll ever get time to stop anywhere for a social visit. We often miss breakfast and lunch as it is... :(

If I had more time to spare I would be able to spend it decifering these awkward NOTAMS ;)

I emailed them last year but although they said it was possible and would trial it, they didn't. I thought you had a direct input, hence this more recent post to yourself.

I cannot see why this seems so difficult; I'm NOT asking for any rules to be changed, as far as I can see, nor doing anything that would make life difficult for a foreign pilot, in fact the contrary.

For example:

"EGHD
RAC : FROM 05/03/29 19:00 TO 05/10/28 19:30 C1149/05
D)MON-FRI 1900-1930
E)ATZ/AD NOT AVBL EXCEPT IN EMERGENCY"

I need to know if this is likely to affect my 12 or so day's sectors, some of which I haven't yet planned because I don't know timings or route until later in the day, when I might be sitting in a field waiting for a phone call on where to go next.

If the NOTAM said this:

"EGHD
RAC : FROM 05/03/29 19:00 TO 05/10/28 19:30 C1149/05
D)MON-FRI 1900-1930
E) Plymouth ATZ/AD NOT AVBL EXCEPT IN EMERGENCY"

It would solve the problem. It's not asking the earth, is it?
:confused:

[Mike Cross]

18G

Not sure whether there is any particular sequence to the order the en-route NOTAM appear in a Narrow Route Brief. It's unusual for me to get more than a page or two and it's easy to skip through those that are irrelevant.

The old briefs were replaced by the VFR FIR briefs, where things do arrive in a particular order. As it says at the head of the brief:-
THIS VFR ONLY AREA BRIEFING CONTAINS NOTAM SORTED BY RADIUS OF INFLUENCE INTO TWO SECTIONS. THE FIRST SECTION CONTAINS NOTAM WHICH HAVE A RADIUS OF INFLUENCE OF 30 NM AND LESS AND THE SECOND THOSE NOTAM WITH A RADIUS OF INFLUENCE GREATER THAN 30 NM.
BOTH SETS OF NOTAM MUST BE STUDIED CLOSELY BEFORE FLIGHT.
Then at the start of the first section it saysTHE FOLLOWING SECTION CONTAINS NOTAM WITH A RADIUS OF INFLUENCE OF 30 NM OR LESS, SORTED BY TYPE: AGA, COM, RAC, NAVW AND OTHER AND WITHIN EACH TYPE SORTED GEOGRAPHICALLY FROM NORTH TO SOUTH.

At the start of the second it says
THE FOLLOWING SECTION CONTAINS NOTAM WITH A RADIUS OF INFLUENCE GREATER THAN 30 NM, SORTED BY TYPE: AGA, COM, RAC, NAVW AND OTHER AND WITHIN EACH TYPE SORTED GEOGRAPHICALLY FROM NORTH TO SOUTH.

This is not unforunately what the GA pilot representatives asked for. We suggested a sort from south to north (which was the way the old briefs were sorted) and we did not ask it to be sectioned by type. What we ended up with was decided by John Gentleman of CAA DAP and Rod Dean of the CAA's GA Department (both no longer in post). The reason for sorting into two sections based on radius of influence is as follows:-

Imagine I am flying from Plymouth to Bournemouth. I check the section of the brief covering the latitudes within which my flight lies. However there are some NOTAM that affect the entire UK and which therefore have a geographic centre up in the Midlands. Because I have not checked this part of the brief I don't see them. Putting the large-area stuff in a separate section which is read in its entirety deals with the risk of not seeing it.

The problem with changing the sort is that it costs money. NATS have to pay Thales Information Systems to re-write the software. Having already done so and produced what the CAA asked for they won't be amenable to paying again and would probably require CAA to fund it, who, as is natural, will not want to, particularly if it implies an admission that they got it wrong in the first place.

ST

I agree it would be helpful for the a/d name to be included. While NATS staff are not permitted to identify themselves on web forums they do monitor them and some do post under pseudonyms. However the best way to get changes made is to send an email directly to [email protected]
A number of users making the same request will have more effect than simply feeding it through me. I have already mentioned it to them on your behalf.

[ShyTorque]

Mike, thanks. I will try them again, referring to this thread.

[TD&H]

Unfortunately not better today, tried logging in several times and get taken straight to an error page and unable to exit from it:(

Have sent an email to ais supervisor to let them know

[chrisN]

Strange that it did not work. I got in today, did a narrow route briefing at 10:06 UTC, no problem.

Just tried again at 11:23 UTC, and while it seemd a bit slow, I got in again.


I wonder if the whole site went down, or if it just happens when too many people try to access it at once?

Chris N.

[Evil J]

Well said Mike.

I personally think it is very useful and you should be congratulated on the work that has been put into improving the service.

Personally I use a combination of the AIS site (narrow route brief) Notam pro (which plots pins on a map for nav warnings) and the freephone line.

And I seem to know more of what's going off around the area the some of the flying club instructors!!

Recent quote- "What time is the Lanc flying by?"
reply from QFI "What Lanc fly-by?"

[TD&H]

Problems with AIS and AOL?

Having continual problems today not able to log on, ended up chatting with helpful and friendly people at AIS (duty supervisor). Their thoughts seem to suggest that because I use AOL (at home) to access AIS the problem is in a restriction of java scripting on AOL.

Now I'm sure the more computer literate will be able to configure my computer and AOL to talk to AIS (help needed here:confused: ). Any other AOL users have problems?

Now what would the CAA have to say if my excuse was: 'well my lord, I did spend four hours trying to get a NOTAM brief, but because my internet provider and AIS don't seem to like each other I gave up and just went flying anyway'

[Mike Cross]

No reason why one should not download Internet Explorer from here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=1e1550cb-5e5d-48f5-b02b-20b602228de6&displaylang=en) .

My dear lady wife uses a Mac and AOL but finds that using Internet Explorer rather than the AOL browser deals with an awful lot of issues.

Mike

[TD&H]

Mike, thanks, I can revert to Internet Explorer, but it is only for the AIS site, no other gives a problem.

Have fired a broadside at AOL, for a few weeks ago it worked fine, now with the latest (enforced) upgrade from AOL its not working. Any other AOL users see the problem, can solve it easier than just going to Internet Explorer?

How often do you get together with AIS to address problems and give advice? It seems you're up against some intransigence from the other side in getting them to realise that a system that's not intuitive isn't good, and in some cases can be seen as having serious flight safety issues (ie lack of ease in seeing the relevant Notams easily).

Cheers, H

[Mike Cross]

TD&H

The problem seems to be with AOL. AIS advise that they have had a number of AOL users today reporting problems. Nothing has changed on the AIS site, it's the AOL browser upgrade that seems to be the culprit.

In answer to your question, I probably have some contact with AIS on a weekly basis.

It's an interesting situation. Most pilots take a very parochial view without realising the briefing service is provided as part of the UK's obligations under the International Convention on Civil Aviation and has to conform to the standards laid down by ICAO. An understanding of the standards framework within which it operates is a great help. Unfortunately ICAO does not publish its documentation on the Web but the two main docments are Annex 15 to the Convention and ICAO Document 8126, The Aeronautical Infrormation Services Manual.

As you know, it's a free service, so the scope for spending money on alterations or the provision of services over and above what is required by the Convention is limited. Of course if we were all to pay for it that might be different!

Austria uses the same software for a paid for service. You can see their implementation here (https://www.homebriefing.com/aes/login.jsp) and also have a free trial. As you will see they also include the Flight Plan Filing option.

In my experience the site does a very good job, providing the user takes the trouble to understand how it works.

Mike

[TD&H]

Mike

Thanks for your comments. I used the AIS advice to clear my cache (didn't even know I had one!!) and that seemed to solve the problem.

Something I wonder about with the people who give feedback in a committee (or whatever is used to chat with AIS) is that most will be fairly experienced users so they will have gained knowledge of how to use the system just by repetative trial and error. How about getting an occasional user invited to use the website in front of the 'committee/AIS' to let them see how they get on (only using intuition and the webpage help pages)? That might give a more realistic view of where problems occur. A new PPL, but not a young computer whiz, an older person who uses the 'puter and internet but without really understanding how.

Even allowing for the limited funds and even more limited willingness to spend them, that sort of feedback might emphasise where the most important and often least expensive modifications can be done. EG a few more and relevant help pages.

Cheers, H

[Mike Cross]

The help pages are something I have recently had words about. Not too long ago they "simplified" them and as a result took out some of the stuff.

Believe it or not I have been unable to find anywhere on CAA or AIS an explanation of what is and is not valid in the route box of an ICAO Flight PLan. The Safety Sense leaflet on VFR Flight Plans doesn't tell you. It used to be in the AIS help file but last time I looked it had disappeared.

There has been quite a lot of effort to help educate users. There have been articles in Flyer and in General Aviation, the AOPA magazine. Pilot published a users guide and the next edition of Popular Flying, the PFA magazine will also carry an article on how to get the best from the site.

In adidtion to this Pilot sponsored me to be on their stand at Fly!, Aerofair and the PFA Rally last year to help and demonstrate how to use the site and I have also presented at West London Aero Club, in central London, and at AIS during user visits.

AIS are happy to have visitors and if a group from your flying club want to go, just speak to them. They are very approachable, as you have found.

Mike