"Immediately contact with radar"

[JABBARA]

Hi everybody,

In most German airports, the SID procedures instruct as "Immediately contact with radar after take off".

As an airline pilot, what you guys understand from the word "immediately"? Some pilots advise to do that just after lift off, e.g. gears retracted and RA is reading about 100-200 feet. In my opinion, those heights below planned flap retraction altitude for the case of engine failure, are critical heights and the both pilots should focus on the flight path control of the airplane rather than talking. I know this minimum acceleration altitude cannot be less than 400 feet AGL and the operators can select a higher height (for example the operator I fly for, assumes this height as 800 feet AGL). I have been flying over Europe, especially over Germany, for years and I have never attempted to contact with ATC just after lift off. I can say, I always contact with ATC while closing 1000 feet AGL. Till now, I have never received any critics from ATC for being late.

Now I would like to hear some other opinions from the pilots and from the perspective of ATC operators.

Thank you.

[NigelOnDraft]

IMHO when you are ready and able to speak to them.... varies for me according to the day, the crew, and whether an immediate turn / climb might benefit me :)

[Intruder]

After positive climb, gear coming up, initial turn (if required) started, and above 400' AGL.

[eastern wiseguy]

As an ATCO I have to say I don't expect you to contact me until you have everything sorted out and all is well.I think that in this case it might just be a linguistic thing.If I say immediate(as you say it means immediate).If I were to use that phraseology here(which we don't) I am certain I would modify it to remove the urgency.

As a NATS controller I always retain the aircraft on the tower frequency UNTIL I see it is climbing ,nothing has fallen off and then I hand it to radar(Means I keep the emergency if it happens!!:ok: :ok: )

[BlueEagle]

As Intruder says, 400' or as soon as possible afterwards.

[Piltdown Man]

Germany, a frequent destination (EDDL, EDDK, EDDW, EDDV, EDDN etc.) ... I don't even get enough time to sample the "wurst" (25 minute turnrounds) however... I have seen examples when contact was made passing 4,000' down to 200'. (10 secs to 100 secs - we don't go up that quick!) Never, ever had any controller criticised us. So immediately means: After one has aviated and then navigated, one then communicates. Unless, of course, one decides not to follow the SID then...