UK-Egypt-UK with one crew

[airmemphis]

I recently found out that British charter airlines use the same crew on their outbound and inbound flights when operating England-Egypt flights. Now considering the first leg is around 5 hours, the return 6 hours and then one hour turnaround in Egypt (e.g. SSH, HRG, LXR, TCP, RMF, ASW) how can only only crew operate these flights?

[foxmoth]

If you use the flight duty tables most UK airlines use, departing between 0800 and 1300 local on a 2 sector day allows you 13hrs 15 mins, with a 1 hour report, 5hours outbound, 6 back and a 1 hour turnround that gives 15min spare, you can also use up to 3 hours discretion, though if a company uses discretion too often then the CAA will look at the rotation and possibly stop it continuing. In addition, sometimes where an operation is close to the limits the CAA will allow a "variation", often involving required days off before and after and restricting use of discretion, that will allow extension to the normal duty day.

[backofthedrag]

Cap 371 check-in between 8 and 12.59 local - Max FDP is 13 1/4 hours. With one hour check in - you have 1/4 hr. to spare.
Failing that Level 2 variation : day off before, discretion limited etc. - max FDP 14 1/4 hrs.


oops , overlapped, should have typed quicker!

[airmemphis]

Thanks for the replies.

What happens if say a crew operated LGW-SSH, then in SSH the B767 went tech and it takes 3 hours to fix the problem. Will the crew be able to take the aircraft back to LGW, since by then they would have exceeded the permitted hours? If not will the passengers be forced to stay at SSH till the crew can fly again?

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

airmemphis: As you can imagine, there would be a degree of 'intensive conversation' between the captain concerned and ops back in the UK. Various options and suggestions would be explored, including how 'inventive' the captain was prepared to be, if you get my drift. A compromise might be struck where the aircraft could be flown to an airport on the way home, within the duty limits, to which a fresh crew could be ferried to bring it the rest of the way.

In any event, an unscheduled nightstop is to be avoided like the plague. Obviously, it disrupts the flying programme, and for the unfortunate crew concerned, the aggro with the highly upset delayed passengers resembles Custer's Last Stand. You will gather I speak from personal experience!

[Airbus Girl]

Night Paphoses are also well known for being rostered to within 5 minutes of max duty time. The worst thing is, there are restrictions on the time you are allowed back into the London airports in the morning, so its not like you can make any time up...

[BlueEagle]

Used to do a LGW-Tel Aviv round trip with two crew in the Air Europe days on the B737-300 - I seem to remember that the aircraft was prepared by a spare tech and cabin crew who then stood down, or did a Palma round trip, the operating crew then delayed their sign-on by thirty minutes thus giving forty five minutes of duty time to allow for delays before any discretion was called for.

[airmemphis]

How about the new flights this summer by GSM. They will operate a weekly GLA-HRG-GLA B738 flight. Now thats even longer than LGW-SSH-LGW. Will the CAA agree to grant them a dispensation to operate both sectors with one crew?

[silverhawk]

Level 2 rest complies.

Welcome to the real world of commercialism.

If you don't like being fully utilised then please become civil servants.

[BOAC]

BlueEagle - BAEOG operated the same flight with a 737-4 in the early 90's, without the 'prep' crew or sign-on 'fudge'. It fitted the FDP - just, but there were these unexpected :D phenomena of wind, turn-round delays and ATC slots.

Warned it would be !!'tight'!! they pressed on with it until the discretion reports reached the CAA trigger level and the sleeping monster woke:D

It went to the 757.

[Paranoid Parrot]

The point about discretion is that it is only used with genuinely unexpected circumstances. It can not be planned to be used. Too many companies put the captain in to a difficult position by saying 'you have discretion' if it is clear that the maximum hours will be exceeded.

[10002level]

I just got back from a holiday in Hurghada yesterday and when I went out on the Mytravel B757 they were operating on a level 2 variation. However, for the return I was on a Canadian registered A320 which was operated with a flightdeck deadheading back. Notably, the flight is now running later for the summer and was not scheduled to land at MAN until 02:30 local (in the event it was about 15 minutes late). No doubt with the start time being later, the duty period would be more restrictive.

Strange being on a flight from Egypt to the UK and having all safety related cabin anouncements being made in both english and french.

[hapzim]

Yes 10002level and the inbound crew had no doubt positioned out in the back supposedly "resting" in a packed pax compartment, with pa's, services, anti dvt leg stretching pax standing around their feet, if they were lucky enough to have had the emergency exit rows.

Bright and alert to drive you safely home NOT, after reporting 6 hrs plus earlier.:* A crew at the end of and 11 hr trans-atlantic trip are less fatigued as they aim at the touch down point.