Helicopter Landing

[Daniel Beurich]

Pilots,

just asking this question purely out of curiosity (i fly fixed wing aircraft) but what kind of radio calls or ATC procedure to Helicopters have to make to Land in Uncontrolled (G) airspace or in a Controlled/Radar CTA/CTZ? Say at an oval or someones backyard (with their permission of course!)

Daniel

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

All you need to do is advise the station your with that you are landing,just so that they know your no longer their problem.

[Grainger]

To add to that: in uncontrolled airspace, I would usually call "Helicopter G-CDEF landing at a private site <location>". On departure, "Helicopter G-CDEF just lifted from private site <location> <destination> <service requested>" should do it.

In Class D, you would be strongly advised to call ATC by phone prior to lifting giving them your callsign, intentions and estimated lift time.

I once got a bollocking for not giving an RT call before lifting, even though just five minutes earlier the guy on the phone had told me to "call when airborne" - so be sure to agree exactly what they want you to do.

[Whirlybird]

I once got a bollocking for not giving an RT call before lifting, even though just five minutes earlier the guy on the phone had told me to "call when airborne" - so be sure to agree exactly what they want you to do.

That's nothing! Last week I left a certain airfield which is inside a certain MATZ - in a C150 as it happens - switched to the MATZ frequency after takeoff, had a long and involved conversation with them as my radio was playing up and I couldn't understand everything, and wasted loads of time asking them to say again, and again. :( When I got back I was told they'd phoned up to complain...no, not about my crap radio usage, but about the fact I'd flown through the MATZ without talking to them!!!!!!! I never did figure out how they knew my callsign if I hadn't talked to them. :confused:

Anyway, sorry for the digression....

[Gaseous]

As I understand it, if the MATZ is class G you dont have to talk to them. You may want to but dont have to.

To fly, land and take off in class G you dont have to talk to anyone if you dont want to. Once you have made contact with a service you must close it before landing. I ususally do "G-XXXX at landing site, leaving frequency"

Grainger has it right.

[[email protected]]

Gaseous - you don't have to acknowledge the dimensions of a MATZ (5nm/3000') in class G as it is a military structure but you must acknowledge the standard ATZ (2nm/2000') within it and frankly anyone penetrating a MATZ without talking to the controlling unit is asking for an airprox.

Grainger - I presume you would make your call on DEPCOM (122.95) as prescribed in the CAP when lifting in class G airspace.

[Gaseous]

Crab, I probably should have said a bit more strongly than you may "want" to speak to them. I operate from a private site under the eastern end of Warton's MATZ so am well aware of the perils.

My view on this is during working hours it is plain stupid to not talk to them and at other times it is best to check on frequency that they are not operating as they can operate at any time. Make sure you are squawking, preferably mode C, before you go anywhere near a MATZ. Incidently, Warton's ATC are brilliant for VFR flights.

My comment was aimed at whirly's post, in that provided you don't infringe the ATZ they have no legal right to bawl at you for transiting the MATZ non radio.

[Chairmanofthebored]

Man you poms are anal.
If you don't tell them you are landing, you don't have to tell them you are taking off.
Outside controlled airspace - WHO CARES?

[TeeS]

Hi Crab

Are you sure Depcom is still in use in the U.K. I thought it was done away with about 3 or 4 years ago? Happy to be proved wrong.

Cheers

TeeS

[Thomas coupling]

Chairmanoftheboard :

It's in case someone else is using the same landing site at the same time:rolleyes:

[Gaseous]

It makes you anal if you get a Eurofighter stuck up your arse.:p

[helicopter-redeye]

Man you poms are anal.

England = slightly smaller than Sydney basin area ....;)

[Whirlybird]

OK, to explain, I'm a member of the flying club at Sleap, and they have a kind of unwritten agreement with Shawbury that we'll talk to them; Shawbury's pretty crowded and they have a right not to like it if we don't. For that reason, I always would, and did. I didn't bother getting into the legality or otherwise of it - I was just amazed that after practically taking over the frequency, they could have thought I hadn't talked to them. The person who told me was just passing on the message anyway; it was a pretty minor bollocking.

As for talking to someone when you're landing off airfield, it makes sense to me. This is an overcrowded little island, and helicopter pilots are about to fly a circuit and land where no-one expects them to, in a machine that f/w piots can never see anyway. It may be anal, but it still makes sense. :ok:

[Oogle]

Daniel

being an Aussie you would know that they don't want us to talk on the radio in Class G airspace - no broadcasts. Airmanship has to prevail though.

Class C and D - just tell the tower where you are going (they may ask if they don't know where it is themselves) and they will give you a descent into the arear you want.

Pop in and ask the chaps at CareFlight (assuming you ARE at YBCG). They would do it daily.

:ok:

[delta3]

Well as I am paying taxes, I think I am entitled the use their services as I wish, so sometimes yes, sometimes no.

In certain meteo conditions, I think its really usefull. Also if changing a lot between D and G-spaces.

Furthermore using it a more, makes you known, and in generally I found this very helpfull, especially if your the only one in their area.

Some of the older military trained professionals I know that switched to the civil probably do not agree, they prefer to do low level tactical flights and hate big brothers

......


Delta3

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

I often fly to private site within Farnborough Radar coverage. I always call them when lifting even though I don't have to - simply because the airspace is always crowded with fixed wing and helis and you can't always look everywhere - they can ! The amount of times i've lifted, taken a good look out and above, and had to adjust my climb out due to conflicting traffic is considerable. You have to utilise every pair of eyes you can in GAville !

[Daniel Beurich]

Thanks Guys you are really helpfull. Im doing my PPL triaining at the moment, but its always been a dream to be able to fly a helicopter as well. Oogle, thats a good idea, the Careflight Guys always ready for a chat! :)

Daniel

[[email protected]]

Tees - it's still in the CAA docs so I guess it is still used - I am also happy to be proved wrong - if there is another freq that civvy users utilise then I would like to promulgate it to my pilots to monitor when operating around private/civ sites.

[helidriver]

There is a new Freq for all landing sites outside controlled airspace and without a controlling authority i.e. tower. It is 135.475mhz.

[rotorspeed]

So how does anyone propose to use this new 135.47 frequency? Just really at sites where there are known to be a few acft operating? Who is going to normally listen out on box 2 in case someone happens to call lifting from a private site? In reality, not many I suspect.

[Head Turner]

The 135.475 is there to assist flight safety and if you are flying below say 1000 feet agl it is prudent to listen in on that frequency just in case your safety is at risk from someone taking off into your flight path. If you have only one radio then there is a problem but a good number of helicopters are now fitted with two radios and so use the facility that has cost alot of money to instal.
I will always contact whoever I think will provide me with information on other aircraft that are likely to conflict with my flight path and calling landing and QSY ends that assistance which is re-established as soon as practiable, either before or soon after take-off.
Fast low level jets are the most worrying and pose the greatest threat to landing and departing from private sites in the UK.

[Helinut]

Just following up Head Turner's mention of that frequency (called SAFETYCOM in the blurb), it is a "good idea" but in practice I am not sure how it will get used, or what value it will have. Comms is a two way process - to work someone needs to to TX and someone RX.

En route low level VFR traffic will tend to be operating on whichever frequency gives the most appropriate FIS or RIS. If they have a second COM box, this will often be on another nearby ATC frequency. In those circumstances, it would seem a bit unlikely that someone making departure or arrival calls on SAFETYCOM will be listened to by anyone. It would certainly not be wise to assume that the aircraft in the vicinity is listening to the SAFETYCOM frequency.

How many pilots fly around with that frequency on one of their COM boxes?? Not many, I suggest.

[krobar]

Its funny, how, even in a country 4 times the size of england, we can have close encounters.
I'm not even talking close to big town, but in ferrying over farm country, suddenly a R44 pops up out of nowhere.
Farmers checking their fences...
Radio? Oh sorry, I was listening to my FM and had the VHF turned down.

[rotorspeed]

Agree Helinut.

I can see it might be of help when a few helis are operating from a common site for some sort of event, for example. but Head Turner are you really going to fly along with 135.47 on box 2 just in case someone happens to call lifting? On box 2 I'd have the next frequency I intended to use/next nearest ATSU/London Info/Volmet etc. Reckon 134.75 is well down the order of sensible freqs to have on box 2 en route.

[[email protected]]

Chaps, I would have mentioned SAFETYCOM earlier but in the blurb I read it indicated that it was for operating at aerodromes without an ATC or at aerodromes which normally have an ATC setup but are outside their normal hours of operation.

CAP 413 specifies that the name of the aerodrome must be included in the information call (to make it unambiguous) so it does not seem appropriate to use it for private sites or HLSs.