Who to vote for...?

[joe2812]

Ok everyone, this is my first election where i'm old enough to vote... as a youngster I figured i'd vote because if ya don't vote, you've got no right to complain - and I love to complain.

So what am I basing my votes on? Well for me, 3 things... immigration and asylum (where i'm from, lots of 'em), education (off to Uni in September), and the party's stand on Defence (looking to my hopeful future career).

Now I can find the info on asylum and education, but nothing for the Conservatives on Defence, and when it comes to Labour:

"Labour is the party of strong defence. We are providing the strategy and resources necessary for the effective defence of Britain and its interests. We are increasing the defence budget by £3.5 billion by 2005/6 - the largest sustained real increase in defence spending plans for 20 years. This contrasts with Conservative plans to cut defence spending in real terms by £1.5 billion - the equivalent of cutting the armed forces by 40,000 personnel"

(Labour Policies - http://www.labour.org.uk/defence04/)

So what are the stances? Labour just did all those cuts yet claim to be pro-Defence budget? Eh? How does that work?

Even at my age I know that the manifesto's are just what you want to hear, when it comes to doing them, not always happening... but at least vote for the people who lying in your favour right?

I'm not asking anyone political stance, or who you'll be voting for etc, however can someone slightly more educated and wise give me a wee bit more information?

Thanks :)

[pr00ne]

Joe2812,

“Labour just did all those cuts yet claim to be pro-Defence budget?”

Labour increased the defence budget for the third successive year, you won’t find a post Cold War Tory Gov’t ever having done that.

The Tory party will chop an additional £2.7Bn from defence support costs to fund silly things like restoring historic infantry regiments in Scotland that have not been able to maintain recruiting numbers for over 20 years and further privatise and out source key defence activities.

[Pilgrim101]

Let's see now. No tax increases ?; Crime obviously falling like Paris Hilton's knickers; Immigration and Asylum seeking issues a "racist" vendetta; Health, well no problem in clean hospitals; Education (2001), Educashion (2003), Educashun (2005); Economy, we did it, we did it, we did it, (say it enough they believe it themselves).

The highest calibre politicians ever ? Liar Blair, Thug Reid, Weak Cook, Dumb Beckett, Dumber Jowell, Thick Prescott, Bland Straw, Arrogant Clarke, Vain Hain etc etc ............. Anything has to be better but it looks like we have to flog the country to death for another four years (if we have them) before the media will expose the deceit and vandalism at the heart of Government and the voting public see the light. As for defence, look at Hoon and decide - I wouldn't let him out without a note from his Mum.

Neocon rant over :E

[WE Branch Fanatic]

pr00ne

I hope the Labour party are paying you overtime for working on a Sunday....

[DuckDodgers]

Radical idea, let us just have a Defence Force then we can get rid of another 25,000 from the RAF, reduce the Army to 50,000 and equip the RN with fast patrol vessels and corvettes.

So when was the last invasion of the UK main land??

[mutleyfour]

So when was the last invasion of the UK main land??

Doesnt mean that those Frenchies wont have another go..they've even got a tunnel this time.

[Scud-U-Like]

You'll never find a political party that is completely in harmony with your views. It is a case of voting for the party that most closely reflects your own outlook.

Forget newspaper scare stories, personality politics, selective statistics and base your voting decision on your personal knowledge, the personal knowledge of those you know and other reliable information.

For example, I keep reading about the 'NHS in crisis', but have yet to meet anyone whose personal experience of the NHS is anything other than positive.

I also read about 'all politicians being in it for their own ends', but find my own MP to be hard working and very helpful. Others I know speak similarly of their own experiences with their own MP.

Crime is supposedly 'out of control', but the National Crime Survey (which asks people about their personal experiences of crime) shows that crime is falling.

Do a bit of homework.

[Zoom]

Scud
Just to agree with you on one point, my personal experience of the NHS is anything but positive.

[FlyboyBen]

"For example, I keep reading about the 'NHS in crisis', but have yet to meet anyone whose personal experience of the NHS is anything other than positive."

Hello Scud-u-like, how do you do? My name is Ben and I am from Aberdeen, nice to meet you!


There you go, you've now met someone who has had a negative experience of the NHS, currently on a 12-15 month waiting list for a knee op!

[Mad_Mark]

So when was the last invasion of the UK main land??

So, if you are not on the UK mainland then you are not worth defending then :confused:

Tw@ :rolleyes:

MadMark!!! :mad:

[soddim]

Most voters polarise towards one or other of the main political parties with barely a moments consideration of the quality or lack of in their local candidate. Perhaps it should be the other way round - find out all one can about the strengths and weaknesses of the local candidates and pick the one you like as long as his party also has a manifesto you can support. At least this approach gives the independants a chance.

[Widger]

Don't trust the Tories,

Labour need a good kicking

Can't see the Lib Dems supporting Defence.


Looks like Kilroy has the vote then!!

[jindabyne]

Scud 'n Flyboy

For what it's worth I recently had a major cancer op with the NHS. My views:

Operated on quickly (guess that's the norm for Big C)
Surgeon and the operating team excellent
Food very good
Nice over-bed tele & phone
Dirty ward - floors cleaned, but don't look close elsewhere
Nursing care varied between really awful and very good

On balance, the Tory NHS line in their manifesto would have my vote; but have to side with friend prOOne over Defence.

Might just stay in the pub --------

[Beeayeate]

joe2812

Doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.


:hmm:

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Maybe this link will be of interest:

Defence and the three major parties (http://www.rusi.org/go.php?structureID=landings&ref=L4239A26C83BD9)

Also this thread on politics and the media etc. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111156)

[Navaleye]

Labour increased the defence budget for the third successive year, you won’t find a post Cold War Tory Gov’t ever having done that.

Sorry, I just fell of my sun lounger laughing my head off when I read this. Defence expenditure is roughly half of what is was in the 80s. 3% of very little is still very little. Get real.

[engineer(retard)]

Navaleye

Do your sums also account for RAB that inflates the budget compared to the 80's?

Regards

Retard

[pr00ne]

Navaleye,

“Post Cold war” you numpty!

Now get back on your sun lounger and have a good look at what happened to the defence budget post cold war under the Tories, in fact from before the end of the Cold war!.
It fell year on year in real terms from 1987 until 1996, during which period they brought you such wonders as “Front Line First” and the “Defence Costs Study”.
From 1990 to 1997 the UK defence budget fell 30% in real terms. "The defence vote is safe with the Tories", yeah right!

The current defence budget grew 7% in 2003 and 18% in 2004, compare this to Thatchers 3% increase at the height of the cold war.

Engineer (retard)

RAB was a Tory concept, first mooted seriously in 1993 and formally proposed in a White paper in 1995. The whole of UK Govt moved to RAB in 2001, not just the MOD.

[engineer(retard)]

pr00ne

I do not care if the martians brought RAB in, but quoting % increase figures means little if you are comparing 2 different systems of accounting.

If I was allowed to put the value of my house and car on my bank account, the bottom line of my monthly statement would rise enourmously in real terms.

But if I tried to buy anything of value with this massive increase in spending, the fraud squad would invite me in for some cheap B&B.

Regards

Retard

[pr00ne]

engineer(retard),

You clearly don't understand Resource Account Budgeting.

[BEagle]

Who does.........................?

[JessTheDog]

A rant of mine made its way into the press and the MoD response stated that the cutbacks were a response to the post-Soviet world, as there was no need to meet the Warsaw Pact hordes head-on.

I thought that excuse was used for Options for Change 1 and 2, the Front Line First cuts and the Strategic Defence Review?

How to vote? Whichever party in your constituency that is best placed to give Bliar and BuffHoon a bloody nose! That will mean Tory or Lib Dem in most cases, or perhaps an independent candidate.

[lineslime]

Are the monster raving loonies still around, can't be any worse than what we have now.:ok:

[pusight]

The most important debate of the whole election is not being debated – which is who rules the UK? Is it Brussels or is it the Westminster parliament. How can a ‘foreign power’ under the guise of the European Union, have so much influence over our country, when we the people are sovereign? Who has given your power away that MPs now only make 17% of our legislation?

For further proof of the erosion of sovereignty we only need to look at the limited range of subjects being discussed by the other 3 parties Tax, Schools Hospitals and Crime. Michael Howard made an attempt to discuss immigration and was not only slapped down by Labour and the Lib Dems but also by the EU for encroaching upon their jurisdiction.

To restore your rightful control over your country, ask yourself which parties are offering Local and National referendum for you the electorate to keep control of politicians and councillors? How many parties are committed to abolishing secret council meetings? How many parties will not tolerate giving your powers away to other institutions? The answer is simple, only one party - the UK Independence Party.

If you keep voting the same, you will keep getting the same result. If you want continued subservience to the EU vote, Conservative, Lib Dem or Labour. But if you want a Britain to be run and controlled by Britons, there is only one choice for you, and that is to support the UK Independence Party.

[pr00ne]

pusight,

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks I needed a laugh.

[ScribblySimon]

The question of who to vote for has been exercising the movers (yes apologies for bringing them onto this board but.... ) on their own board (http://www.rafmovs.com/cpgn/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=82#1321) .

Some very strange views but this has got to take the biscuit ....

Secondly....FACT ! Mrs Thatcher and her limp wristed cronies sent this country to WAR in 1982 to defend an Island 18,000 miles away for one reason and one reason only.....TO WIN A GENERAL ELECTION !

and you don't have to register to put your comment on :E :E

[pusight]

PrOOne

What made you laugh? or this -

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/01/30/new_labours_internet_dirty_tricks/

[insty66]

Don't let us decide for you, have a look then make your own choice.
Just make sure you do vote. Then make your mates vote. Then make them make their mates vote.......................ad nauseum.

At least we'd have a representative (ish) govt

[Vick Van Guard]

And if you can't decide who to vote for try this:

Who shall we vote for? (http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com/)

Worth five minutes of your time :ok:

[engineer(retard)]

pr00ne

Thank you for your constructive comments, my question was if you are comparing 2 different systems of accounting, how are they being compared. Your response have been

"You clearly don't understand Resource Account Budgeting"

"From 1990 to 1997 the UK defence budget fell 30% in real terms. "The defence vote is safe with the Tories", yeah right!"

"The current defence budget grew 7% in 2003 and 18% in 2004, compare this to Thatchers 3% increase at the height of the cold war."

"The whole of UK Govt moved to RAB in 2001, not just the MOD."

I could have taken your response straight from the Labour manifesto. I have a simple approach to politicians, regardless of party, I assume they are either hiding something or lying. It saves time. In your case you have used a lot of words to say nothing, are you a politician?

I understand that RAB is split into capaital and resource budgeting (C-DEL & R-DEL). Now given that personnel numbers have gone down since 97, then the R-DEL component is reduced. If this is true, then to reach your figures then the available expenditure for capital expenditure must have had the money being spent on resource being spent on capital and a bit more. Therefore, the forces should be knee deep in equipment.

However, if you are combining the C-DEL & R-DEL figures and comparing it with the previous capital only system then you are guilty of sleight of hand.

What is the definition of real, as in real increases that are being bantered about.

Regards

Retard

[joe2812]

Well whadda ya know... -30 for Labour and +28 for UKIP....

Was expecting Conservatives!

[Vick Van Guard]

If you haven't a clue about what your MP has achieved throughout the last Parliament or would like to know their attendance/voting record or indeed who he/she is, then can I recommend his informative site:

theyworkforyou.com (http://theyworkforyou.com/)

Also lists interests, expense claims, hospitality etc.

Well worth a look :ooh:

[McAero]

Don't need to look. My local MP is none other than John Reid. Got some crackin' stories to tell about him from his younger days! No chance he'll lose the seat here.

[DuckDodgers]

Rather like that fool Geoffrey Robinson, one of the biggest crooks around!

[Vick Van Guard]

Talking of fools, I read with interest that "two Jags" has been up to his old tricks again.

"b@gger off. Get on your bus, you amateur" (http://www.thisisgwent.co.uk/gwent/election/ELECTION2.html)


:p :p :p

[JessTheDog]

2 Jags (2 more than the Royal Air Force!) has been north of the Border, treating the Jocks to his brand of stand-up comedy!

He managed to land a few verbal punches on the Edinburgh council under the mistaken impression it was under Lib Dem control - it is in fact in Labour hands, but not by much! He also laid into John Birt (jealousy perhaps) and was harangued by some underwhelmed shoppers at a local Tesco.

[BEagle]

Who to vote for? Well, normally I'm loyal to my brother who is a PCC for the Lib Dems; however, I have to vote Tory this time in order to swell the only real opposition to that slimy $hit Bliar and his spin-ridden henchmen...

[joe2812]

I probably will end up going Tory... but everything ive seen of scary Howard is weak.

All he talks about is Immigration and while sure its a key issue, its not the only issue! Labour will win again... inevitable, Tories haven't done a good job the last few weeks at all.

[pusight]

You all, I think need to wake up to what the Lib/Lab/Con are saying - and ask them for clarification. Below I have copied an extract from Mike Nattrass MEP West Midlands:

Quote
As an MEP let me make it quite clear; the European Union is not renegotiable. Once EU legislation is passed it cannot be changed. Parties who claim they can have a unilateral policy against EU policy cannot - it is that simple. Vote again for the UK Independence Party and get control of Your Country Back.

Mike Nattrass MEP - UK Independence Party, West Midlands
End Quote

Howard cannot whilst we belong to the EU enable his policies - he has stated that he is fully commited to the EU and he will not let the public have a referendum on whether to stay in the EU or leave it - Why not, you have to ask?
And remember that MPs no longer fully control our Country. The European Union (EU) now makes 83% of our legislation in Brussels, and this legislation has to be accepted by our parliament. The Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems are all happy with this arrangement - Is this democratic - I think not.

The only way to restore our proper democratic process is to leave the EU. Don't say you weren't told!

[Roghead]

Come on Proone, can't wait for your next tilt at the thick ginger beer.

So, who to vote for? Sadly in Scotland my preferred party are all but non existant.Therefore I'll probably vote for the bunch who will increase my pension, decrease my poll tax (sic), reduce the tax on all the important things like whisky, wine, golf club membership, car fuel (and boat and aviation fuel) provide more accomodating nurses in my Cardiatic Rehab clinic, sack my cardiac rehab physiotherapist (sorry Hazel, you just push me too hard),provide me with a free train pass to go with the bus pass, re-open weekend flying for RAuxAF and let me play, ignore the follies of EU membership but capitilise on their goodies, ban the use of mobile phones in public, ban txtspk, allow me to shoot or otherwise dispose of scumbags who commit violent and or sexual assaults on "innocents" and finally promise to tell the truth and actually govern according to their promised policies.

So Tinker Bell gets my vote again.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[TC27]

I'm voting for the Natural Law party.