RAF application with NATS in mind

[speedbirdzerozeroone]

Can anyone offer some guidance on this?

Having just graduated university last year at 21 years of age I am currently in the process of applying for an RAF commission to Cranwell with a view to joining NATS in later life. At the moment I am trying to decide which trade would satisfy me the most whilst at the same time giving me the skills which NATS find the most desirable in those they decide to train as future ATCOs

My dilemma is that whilst I cannot be a pilot, I can be a Weapon Systems Officer and fulfil my love of flying. However this would not teach me the skills that I would need as an ATCO.

My question is to what extent NATS would look as favourably on a WSO as they would on an RAF ATCO and whether they would even consider training a middle aged WSO?

Although the trade of Fighter Controller is appealing and in some ways a positive compromise, it actually removes both the possibility of living ‘up front’ and also the visual contact an airfield ATCO might experience in the tower. And I would suspect in "simulated conditions" if the guys in the back of an E3 ever came close to ‘making visual’ with an F3 or anything else for that matter, then some serious questions would have to be asked…. the guy sitting in the tower at Coningsby on the other hand……

If anyone can offer an informed view then please go for it..

Cheers

001

[stillin1]

It sounds to me as if you are looking at this the wrong way! You get to sign-up in the RAF for a considerable period - you had better find a trade that you enjoy whilst you are in or life will be pretty miserable.
If you can get a short service commision and wanna fly for a couple of tours - WSO.
If you want the most closely related job (it's the same near as damn it - you just get to deal with a nicer class of person!!!) to civi ATCO - Mil ATC is yer choice.
Anything else seems to be a futile, probably frustrating and pointless compromise.
Go WSO, fly FJ and live life for a while. Anything less is less. Get a job for the money later if you need to. :cool:

[Gonzo]

I have no real knowledge of the mil careers you talk about, but we've got an ex-FC at LHR and he's doing well.

I'd imagine the skills that would make you a good ATCO could be developed in an FJ cockpit, or as an FC, or mil ATC, or many other military trades.

Teamworking
Working under pressure
Prioritising
Multitasking
Situational Awareness
Decisiveness

It seems like to want to be a WSO, so be one. The skills you learn there will be just as valuable.

[Ops and Mops]

As you also posted on the Mil Aircrew forum, to save repeating my answer it can be found here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1845951#post1845951)

Cheers.

[tired-flyboy]

It'll make no difference what you decide, FJ backseater, Mil ATCO or FC.

NATS say that past experience counts - but this is only if your above the age threshold. (You still have to sit the NATS apptitude tests)

Having done my time in the mob as a mil ATCO I have had to re-train from scratch and have been on the same course as the ab-inito's.

To be honest whatever you choose make sure its the correct one FOR YOU If you get a SSC as aircrew its 12 years (if i remember correctly), 6 years for the ground trades.

Any Q's feel free to PM

:ok:

[booke23]

Do bear in mind NATS upper age limit for TATC's.........If you were to come out of the RAF having been a WSO, It may not qualify as previous experence........in which case you'd not be exempt from the age restrictions on entry.

[Ali Bongo]

Booke23 makes a critical point, to enter NATS above the exisitng age threshold you have to have had experience as either an ATCO or an AATC (or whatever they are in Trade Group 9 this week:confused: )

As someone who came in after 15 years in the Mil, I'd reccommend just joining NATS straight away for several reasons. Why anyone would want to join the RAF nowadays is beyond me :confused:

However, if you do go the RAF and then into NATS route, as others have said above - I'm afraid it is right back to the beginning. After 15 years in Mil ATC I was only exempt from 1 Nav exam at the college. This must be a roaring success of the MOD in preparing its serviceman for civilian life....;)

Am I glad I left......too :mad: right. I work a fraction of the hours and get paid twice as much .......:ok:

Choose wisely .....;)

[Dances with Boffins]

I agree with Ali B totally. Much though i enjoyed RAF life, the niff-naff and trivia associated with a commision these days has definitely taken the shine off it. NATS will only credit you with the NAV training and excuse you from one [piss-easy] exam at the college.
If you want to join NATS, join now. If you want to wear the blue suit, then go in for the right reasons and do something you will enjoy. I found WSO wasn't for me so handed back my green baby-gro and went to Hurn. The raise in salary and lack of secondary duties made NATS a better life straight away. The fact that ATC is a bloody good job filled with bloody good people is the icing on the cake.
If you are not in it for the long haul, you'll pretty soon lose the respect and support of those around you.

[The Sad ATCO]

I, too, spent about 8 years in the mob as a mil ATCO before jumping ship to join NATS in 94 - just beating the age limit at that time. Whilst I had a great time in the RAF and have never regretted joining, I'm glad that I left when I did.
I wholly agree with the last couple of posters; civvy ATC is currently the more comfortable option and definitely the more financially rewarding. Just depends what you want from life. I think that whatever you decide to do you should do it because its what you WANT to do NOW. You'll need that driven desire to get through the selection process for either job.

Good luck.

Regards

Sad

[SirToppamHat]

Although Ali Bongo is partly correct, ATC and AATC (TG9?) are not the only jobs earning waivers for the NATS age limits; Fighter Control is also accepted as relevant experience. There are several ATCOs out there from the FC world, and at least one who is about to start.

What I find slightly odd is that there was one guy who joined NATS in the last few years who, although a member of the FC Branch, had never actually controlled aircraft. He was a Surveillance Officer. I believe that NATS accepted this showed an ability to 'read' a radar display and, presumably in concert with his aptitude scores, felt he was a good risk - they seem to have been correct in this assessment.

Although the opportunity exists to fly E-3s from the FC route, there is absolutely no guarantee, and I would suggest it is unlikely if you are on a SSC.

As far as the WSO to NATS is concerned, I have no knowledge of anyone going this route, though I am sure someone out there will be able to advise. Why not ask NATS for an opinion? Just bear in mind that they may change their rules by the time you come to join.

I would be dubious about your achieving success in (enjoying!) any Branch in the RAF if your reasons for joining are more to do with your future plans than what you want to do now.

Good Luck!

[Ali Bongo]

Ooopps, sorry SirToppamHat - you're right ....:ok:

Although as an ex TG9 controller I don't really consider an ASOP / FSO / TG 12 er to be a proper controller anyway so in essence I was probably correct ......;) :p ;)

Anyway off to put my tin hat on ..........:ok: :ok:

[speedbirdzerozeroone]

Cheers Everybody,

What a fantastic bunch you are. Well I’m pretty sure I am off to OASC for the correct reasons in around 4 months from now. I’ve decided I will go with the ATCO choice as it is essentially ‘what I’ve always wanted.’ My earlier post probably smacked of indecision but I was just weighing up the feasibility of the other 2 branches.

Thanks all for the veritable menu of considerations!

001

…btw Ali Bongo…did the RAF send you to Saxa Vord or something?