Red Team hiring?

[GearDoor]

I heard at work the other day that Air Canada will be hiring in November. Something about all furloughed pilots recalled plus approximately 200 new hires.

Also, does anyone know if they are planning to base EMB 175/190 in Winnipeg? Just curious.

[brucelee]

Latest from the horse's mouth on our flt ops web site says all furloughed pilots are expected to be back to work by Sept this year with outside hiring beginning in "fourth quarter 2005, first quarter 2006". Pilots who were on the short list before it all stopped will be given the same consideration as new applicants.A hiring panel is about to be named and they will start reviewing resumes very shortly ( I think it's next week). The practice of hiring 50% from the connectors is gone. Electronic resumes on our website are the only avenue. Emb 170/190 bases are YUL and YYZ for now. No word on the numbers for now.
Good Luck to all interested.

[flywestjetcr]

Will Jazz pilots be able to apply and be hired by Air Canada out side of their Jazz senority number ? Will Jazz ask Air Canada not to hire anyone from Jazz if they have been with the company for less than two years ? Curious...

[brucelee]

flywest..

Good questions, we don't know what the deal with Jazz is but our flt ops manager claims there is no special preferance or deals but rest assure something is always in the background.

[WF9F]

So i take it the few guys that were left in the hiring pool are now starting from scratch again?If so, that sucks.The hiring pool would have been quick access to some pilots who have already done the interview,sim, and cog test.

WF9F

[GearDoor]

Hmmm, very interesting. Hopefully one could at least get an interview soon.

[c150driver]

After all the pay cuts, does anyone have an actual figure on what the starting salary is? How long before formula pay kicks in and what approximately would that salary start at?

Thanks

[GearDoor]

Check out www.airlinepilotpay.com

[brucelee]

I believe those payrates are US$. Flat pay is for 2 yrs. After that you enter a "wage pool" which is calculated monthly and therefore varies but averages out to $60-70k/yr.
At the company's discretion you may be frozen for up to 5 yrs on your assigned initial position which will be A340/B767 relief pilot or Emb 170/190 FO ( the CRJ is leaving). You are in the wage pool untill you are awarded a higher-paying position i.e A320 FO.
There are two equipment bids per year, typically spring and fall and is awarded by seniority of course.
Per diems average $7-10k per year depending on equipment and is of course tax free.All in all not bad if you consider the long term benefits but things sure are not as good as it use to be.

[Dockjock]

The other Canadian carriers listed on airlinepilotpay.com are in CDN$ so I suspect AC is as well.

[brucelee]

Dock.
You're right. It says so on the bottom of the page. Yikes !

[c150driver]

ouch...I'd make more as a manager at Burger king!:yuk:

[brucelee]

c150.

Hey with your ambition you'd make manager in no time. Then again there's always Walmart. I here they love 737s. And no union dues.
Cheers.

[c150driver]

Thanks for the compliment bruce!:O
I figure I'll make manager in about another 8 months.

Not sure what your walmart 737 comment means though...:confused:

[brucelee]

c-150.

check your pm.

[GearDoor]

When I worked at Burger King, none of the managers made that much. And besides, you won't go home smelling like whoppers and poutine after your done work.

[brucelee]

ya and try getting a shoulder rub by a flt attendant at burger king:ok:

[Inuksuk]

"ya and try getting a shoulder rub by a flt attendant at burger king"

*********************************************

I did, but she didn't want anything to do with my dill pickle - and then she slapped my Whooper.

My case is in court next week

:E

[c150driver]

you won't go home smelling like whoppers and poutine after your done work

I've seen some of the FA's at Air Canada...you actually might come home smelling like poutine...or worse:ugh:

[GearDoor]

Heard yesterday that interviews planned in September with hiring in November, this year.

On another note: Rumors have it that AC may be replacing wide-body Airbus types and 767's with 787 and 777 -200ER and -300ER. What are some of the implications of using a 2 engine type instead of a 4 engine on very long trips like YYZ-DEL, or YYZ-HHH? Is there ETOPS greater than 180 minutes?

[Lost in Saigon]

Take a look:

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=yyz-del&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180

180 mins covers most of the world now.

[GearDoor]

Thanks for that. I actually have that site bookmarked on my computer at home. I guess 180 min would pretty much cover most everything.

[zorx]

Save your head and wallet and maybe get a life.I switched careers and now 9-5 with 65k a year with know seniority list crpolla.Good luck sucker and good luck learning mandarine.

Zen Pilot :}

[brucelee]

Bye bye,au revoir,olfidezen,sayanara,ciao.....:bored:

[Sawbones]

zorx:

Sounds to me like aviation is better off without you - and you are better off without aviation. Bragging about 9-5 .... yikes, what a scary thought.

[cplpilot]

i have a 9-5 with 90k per year but i would sale my soul for a pilot job!

[c150driver]

Cplpilot...that's the problem...too many of us have sold our souls and now the industry is sh#t!


I've just heard from an AC pilot that starting pay is $50,000+ (which is a little different from the link posted earlier)...what's the straight deal? Anyone know?

Thanks

[brucelee]

AC flat pay approx $50k/yr. plus per diems of $8-10k/yr(non taxble). Flat pay is for two yrs then you go in a pay group salary of aprox $60-70k/yr plus the same per diem. You are frozen on the equipment you are awarded for the first five yrs. After that you can bid on equipment that's not in pay group i.e. f/o A320 and make approx $100k/yr. Don't expect to make more than $100k/yr for the first five yrs. Of course the company can wave all this and you may find yourself out of the the pay group much sooner i.e. if more widebody f/o's are required in the near future in which you make good coin much sooner. Sounds confusing? It is. Take note that wide-body captains from other Canadian companies have quit their jobs to come to AC even at the lower starting wages. Why? At AC you work 80 hrs a month (about 2 weeks a month), captains on wide-bodies make $200k/yr plus and your pension will be close to what you were making on the line. AC pay rates are changing due to new arriving equipment in the new year and beyond- B777/787 and Embraers. As this is a new salary structure and my version may not be accurate, I invite other AC people to correct me. Thanks.

[Saltaire]

I think that might be a bit optimistic.......circa 2000 or so. New pay rates are lower and the two year flat is very low ( scam ). I made less than 40k. Group rate for relief and small jets are poor. However, still the best show in Canada, but the gravy days are gone, and very few are making over 200k. Pension? You wait to see what happens when 400+ pilots retire on 100k/year in the next four years. The younger group will not be so lucky. Of course, it still beats 9-5 all day long.

[Lost in Saigon]

I got this from another forum:

Frst year flat is now 37,740 (44,400-15%).

Some furloughed guys will be be returnuiing to a few months of first year flat pay before they transition to second year flat pay minus the 15%.

[cplpilot]

C150driver, you are 100% right. I keep saying to everybody that pilots deserve more. I spent 60K on my CPL and now if i want a job, i have to spend 2 years up north pumping gas on a pilatus for 12$ an hour. Other professional like doctors or lawyers are much more recognized... i wonder if unions (like in Europe) might help the situation...

[c150driver]

Pretty sad for Canadian aviation when those pay rates are the best show around:{

[Saltaire]

It does get better and 100k is possible within about 5-7 years. Good attrition in all dept's in the next few years so positive movement in that regard. It also means younger flight attendants to keep you company. Have to think glass half full.........

[cplpilot]

That is true, too....but i don't like to pay child support :\ ...seems that when you are married the glass is always empty....:sad: Good luck guys and sorry for my english...

[meaw]

The latest numbers given to me by an ACPA leader is for about 300 pilots per year for the next 5 years (approximately 800 for retirements and 700 for growth)

First interviews this summer with first courses in the fall.The preliminary interviews will be carried out by an outside HR firm followed by the rest with AC people.I do not know what exactly the process will now be but I was told it has changed a lot since the last hirings.

I was also told that the guys on the waiting list from Jazz will have to reapply wich sucks big time for them.

[slowstream]

Just Curious, from anyone on the inside or in the know what your thoughts are on this one.

I was one of the guys in the Jazz Pool since prior to 9/11 and I am not going to complain about the pool being disolved. If I am going to go through all those hoops again so to speak I figured I would do it for A/C Mainline given all the pro's and Con's either way, so I applied a couple months ago to mainline.

What I would like thoughts or opinions on, is would mailine review any of my previous interview or sim eval records from Jazz? Would this work for or against me? or no effect at all?

I am thrilled with how well A/C is doing and congrats to all the guys called back, it's been a long road. With the numbers I've heard and seen posted here the odds are good given my time and experience and as well for others. But it is human nature to want feedback from people in the know or on the inside.

Thanks in advance for anyones thoughts and good luck to all, I hope and pray that it is a long and enjoyable ride for many. :D

[brucelee]

slowstream. The old practice was to not look at any past records unless a problem comes up. Believe it or not it could very well be Jazz management who raise a flag to the mainline. The last sim evals were being done in various sims ie DC9, 737. I suspect the next sim evals will be CRJ, EMB(yul) or even 767. I doubt the A320. Anyhow the sim eval use to be one normal t/o, steep turns, a hold, and a couple of approaches. Sound familiar? Basic IFR without any emergencies. Having remeniced all this, times have changed. The initial group will be the guiny pigs.

[Inuksuk]

Good luck on getting in. Lots of evals likely on the 76s as brucelee says. Looking for basic airmanship in the sims - by the sounds of it, nothing you haven't done before. Past record, unless there is a problem not taken into account, but there are many without a flag against them.

If you're coming from the outside, understand things are very different this time with an outside consultancy doing the initial interviews, perhaps even group sessions is the rumour I've heard, before the usual interview, tests and checks.

Brucelee - does that sum up what you've heard? Also, seen the news about the merger or " close alliance" with US, AWA ??? It's starting to seep out now.

[slowstream]

Thanks Guys,

I appreciate the insights and good wishes. Yeah the sim eval is pretty much what you said other than one emerg (Eng fire) no big deal.

One more question if you don't mind and again I understand that things are/have changed and having had the previous C.P experience (take the candidate with the best education/background) I somewhat should expect the same answer I would give. However I don't have a degree or a military background and I am curious as to how big of an issue this could be for me.

Any thoughts other than the obvious?

[brucelee]

Inuk. That's pretty much it. Info is seeping out in bits and pieces from various sources. The new ACE will no doubt do things somewhat different but much of the past culture is still there.

Slowstream. In the past there was a point system, ie military experience was worth so many points, university degree so many and so on. It won't be just one thing that gets you in. Being "born to an AC father" is only worth so much contrary to the ignorance stated by someone else on this forum. Past airline experience, especially turbine/jet is worth its wieght in gold.
Good luck.

[slowstream]

brucelee,

Thanks again, the experience I do have and you've helped me feel a great deal more positive about the process and potential at A/C......thanks.

I've read your posts through out this thread and found them to be very informative and creditable; I for one appreciate you guys taking the time to assist those of us trying to get a foot in the door.

[brucelee]

Slowstream. You're welcome.
I recall the frustration about not knowing what to expect. Word of mouth was the best source at the time when I was going thru the process. It just proves these forums do have a positive side. I suspect other airlines in this country will be doing some hiring and hopefully some info will make it on this forum. Some pretty good jobs out there to be had. Good time to be marketable.

[c150driver]

Couldn't let it go without another jab, eh bruce?? Why so bitter?:ouch:

[brucelee]

bitter. man, no way. You got me all wrong pal. I'm pretty secure and happy where I am c150. Haven't you noticed you kinda stand out as a lonely instigator?

On a more positive and informative note, latest rumor has it first course in July. Apparantly for the first course, preference is being given to those who were in the last pool and those who are on contract as instructors now.
Number of new hires required is in the hundreds within the next few yrs.

[Cyow]

bruce. you're right . he does seem to have a problem. he doesn't like the colour red for one thing. Bitterness.

[brucelee]

AC medical dept. will be screeninig 70 candidates next month, heard today at our medical office. I think the company is waking up and realizing just how short they are.

[Inuksuk]

And of course C150driver might have a problem with the reds in the colour vision test?

Yup brucelee, short alright - bad news for those wanting draft days though...

[WF9F]

Does that mean they are going to the pool for pilots or doing a major rush job on interviews?

[brucelee]

Rumor has it they are going to the previous pool first. But not 100% on that.

[WF9F]

Thanks Brucelee,just heard this from a friend at AC.

New Hire start date July 4th. Hiring every 3 weeks thereafter. 30-40 pilots per course.


The 60 in the pool will be hired first

I have been in the pool since April of 2001

[slowstream]

Inuksuk & brucelee,

That's great news for a lot of people!!! Thanks for keeping everybody in the loop!

With the numbers being stated........man that's a lot of people, I can't help but wonder about how difficult it might be for the company to find people with the experience after a while. I hope things go well for a lot of us!

[brucelee]

slostream. Last time they hired, the experience level was high. They came from everywhere. The company chose pilots who could go direct-entry capt on the RJ. Now that the RJ is leaving, I suspect the requirements for such high experience will also be gone. Hirees will go on Emb f/o, 340 and 767 rp. The hardest part will be the medical and the 550 course (AC FOM). By the way, hotels and meals are paid for during training. Emb in yul and 340/767 in yyz. Party on dudes:ok:

[Inuksuk]

Here's the scoop that I've heard -

1. Previous pool to be hired first and EMB FO or cruise relief on the long haulers will be offered based on need and domicile. If you're based in or around YVR, likely cruise relief is all yours, for example...bit of an exaggeration, but you get the drift.

2. Total time requirements it's been suggested will be around the 2500 TT - which is lower than before - and I have even heard, subject to other criteria being fulfilled (ie professional aviation programme completion), 1800 TT might even be enough for the future). Believe there is a firm bias anyway towards a professional aviation programme being completed. Also good solid multi turbine is essential - and the more you have, the more chance there is. Military also a good place to sniff around, but I had heard some reservations about hiring straight out of the military, not entirely sure how valid that is. mind you. Probably some individual biases.

3. The management is worried about a potential shortage, and is quietly eyeing the potential of introducing a cadet-scheme - bit like Cathay or BA - for the future.

4. New candidates, as I said before, with the new ACE policy of outsourcing most adminny type things, have to go through screening by an external agency, the rumour of an extensive psychy test and group scenarios seems solid, to be followed the next day with the remainder of the interview, medical then sim test, inlcuding, as slowstream says, all the usual basic airmanship qualities and dealing with one single failure, but not at a critical point, e.g. cruise.

5. Training is buzzing and one instructor on the 67 I know looks frazzled. Sequencing the sim sessions is going to be challenging...The medical dept. is also gearing up for lines of naked candidates - i had actually heard more than 80. Imagine what Irene would do if she was still around:eek: ??

6. Lastly, resumes are literally flying in from Canjet, Harmony, even a few from Transat and of course, as we all hoped - exJetsgoers. The guys at 5G have been recalled to the line also - and I suspect those jet jocks will have their resumes processed PDQ. So, for those who don't make it through the red and white door this time, plenty of opportunity out there as AC leads the hiring boom.

brucelee - did I miss anything ?
Apart from the flight deck uniform evaluation of course...

Blue side up guys and gals!
:ok:

[brucelee]

Inuk. That's abundant and credible info. We should start charging $$$. Was in the medical dept. the other day and the nurses were starting to pull their hair at the numbers to be screened.

[WF9F]

Great info, you guys are good.
How long from the start of training to completion?What are the starting salaries up to year 3?I have seen the numbers on the airline pay website but do they include the cuts from CCAA?
There is sure going to be alot of pilot jobs coming from somewhere in the near future.
I can see alot of CanJet guys applying.Their pay and schedule is really bad according to some friends of mine who fly for them.
Are the EMB's all based out of YYZ?What routes are they going on?

WF9F

[brucelee]

Using the guidelines of the last hiring, you start with the FOM course (550) I think is about two weeks long. This is a quick look at various company policies ie fuel, flt time limits, overseas ops, etc etc.
Near the end of the course you will be given your equipment assignment and off to ground school which is about another two weeks. Then followed by sim, 2-3 weeks and your ride. Line indoc is another week or so. That is my best recollection. To be quite frank, all this stuff is thrown at you pretty quik. Like trying to get a glass of water out of a fire hose. Our contract states you cannot work more than five days in a row during training I believe. Weekends off during all grnd schools.
Salary, not sure but low 40 to low 50 for first two yrs, then 60-70 third yr. based on the new position group salary structure. All this will depend on movement. You might find yourself on A320 f/o making 90k + yr. but not sooner than 2 yrs.
EMB to be based in yyz and yul. 340/767 rp yyz and yvr. Emb will do mix of RJ and 320 flying, ie rapidairs and yyz-caribean, west coast. RP flying is worldwide. 777 to be mainly yyz based from what we hear at this point but I suspect one or two in yvr as well. That's all folks. Any other input from other AC guys?
PS. You lucky guys won't have to memorize the morse code as we now have Jepp charts with codes on them and once the RJ leaves, all our machines have auto-tune radios.:ok:

[Inuksuk]

OK - I was typing a similar message to brucelee's but as usual he beat me to it....are you sure you're not an CF-16 pilot bruce...you're quick!!

OK - here's my take

1 Heard low $50s for year 1 and 2, plus allowances. Wait time to get to something like A320 series FO on $90 or so is probably 3-4 years, something like that.
2 Cruise relief all YYZ and YVR - and will be initially Airbus and 76, with migration from 343,345 to 777ER,LR all at YYZ - but that makes no sense to me, but what the hell do I know ?? The 777-300 is badly needed for the LHR run - the 76s that do the majority of it don't have the capacity anymore, although we see some A333s doing a lot more during peak times.
3. EMB base is YUL and YYZ only, and will take on what the CRJ did along with some A320 runs - the usual North East and other regionals and of course, runs where the capacity of an A320 isn't needed. From all accounts, it's a sweet machine.
4. The training takes no prisoners - and you either run out the gate or you are screwed. Time is of the essence. 550 course needs pre-work in order to get you through it in my opinion, and about 2-3 weeks - probably two. Monday through Friday only during training - yep. If you don't know the FoM then you are again screwed. Late nights and early starts boys and girls.
5. Groundschool after equipment allocation is going to be 2 or three weeks, sim rides same duration - and prepared to be totally whacked - these are tough days ahead. Line doc follows and off you jolly well go...

Not sure what the plan is with the stragglers - can't remember what the fall-out rate was last time.

Ahh, yes the Jeppesen contract. I was speaking to a KLM crew (I am now off gin for life) the other day, on the 777, and guess what...the electronic flight bag is so unreliable, the charts are what they live by...

- -. --- --- .-.. (good luck - straight from the chart :) )

P.S. How much should we charge for this info ? I am keen to open Brucelee-Inuksuk Career Guidance for Aviation Professionals. We'd make a bloody fortune...

[brucelee]

Inuk. I agree. Once again good info. Wish I would of had this forum five yrs ago. The 550 course is alot of info but don't be scared. Most nights were party nights for my course except before a quiz day. All multiple choice stuff. Yep, sure had some good times at Arizonas and the place next door. The instructors are retired widebody guys (old farts) who are pretty good at lending a hand.
By the way, saw some new F/a recruits the other day - much better. I think we're starting to get somewhere in that dept. :D

[Inuksuk]

WHAT ? Good looking Flight Attendants ??

No more blue rinses and varicose veins ?

I'm gutted.....:}

Also, this is BEFORE Inuk was married - but this is the new version of where one celebration took place during my own intro to Maple Leaf Land...ah yes, memories

www.thelandingstrip-club.com



PS Saw the new FA uniform the other day on a well endowed older lady...not flattering. Not flattering at all... Apparently, have you heard that flight deck might be going dark blue white and red too ? Sounds like we might get confused with Speedbird jocks...

[brucelee]

Found it hard to study there. But I swear it made me a better pilot.
I don't like the sounds of this new uniform sh*t. Time for a pay hike.

[slowstream]

Inuksuk & brucelee,

You bet the first few rounds are on me! You guys have been great!..............Thanks!

[bcflyer]

Any thoughts on why there is no spot to enter light multi engine turbine time on the A/C application? They have spots for every other kind of time under the sun (including helicopter time) There are alot of guys with tons of PIC on King Airs, MU-2's Cheyennes etc yet there seems to be no place to enter it, except of course for your attached CV. I found it kind of strange as they have a spot for light piston twin but not turbine twin.

[brucelee]

Bcflyer. My take on that is that the people doing the screening are not aviation people apparantly, at least for the first batch of hiring. Ultimately your resume will be seen by pilot-types so you should include all that info in your resume. Don't just fill out the application, include a good-old-fashion resume and any letters of recc.
cheers.

[bcflyer]

Brucelee,

Thanks again. I had already attached my good old fashioned resume but was curious about the layout of the online form. Thanks for straightening that out.

[GearDoor]

Thanks for all the great info (but keep it coming if you can) regarding hiring rumors.

I've got a University degree, and an Aviation Diploma, as well as a fair bit of large turbo-prop EFIS time. Hopefully, I'll get a call for an interview.

Any info about the technical exam yet?

Later

[brucelee]

Haven't heard anything about a technical exam yet, have you Inuk?

[Inuksuk]

Geardoor...

Are you refering to the blurb on the AC website ?

I haven't heard about a discrete technical questionnaire as part of selection per se...

If you have completed an ATPL or CPL, surely the technical knowledge is taken as granted...

[Dockjock]

Wow guys, thanks for the info. Much appreciated down here in the tier III's. Cheers!

[GearDoor]

Inuksuk,

Yeah, I was referring to the blurb on the website. I've written a tech quiz as part of another interview, so I assume it would be very similar, if implemented. I have most of the recommended reading material, and know where to get one of the others.

GD

[c150driver]

I'm a little confused on your salary quote...If the AC pilots took a 15% pay cut, why is the starting pay 20% higher than it was during the last round of new hires?

Thanks

[brucelee]

Five yrs ago the flat pay salary for the first two yrs was in the high $40k yr.(i think 47,000). In the real world, you fly more than the minimum so that 50k is a more realistic figure (my T4 can prove that) You then add per diems which amount to anywhere between $7-10k/yr. depending on the equipment you're flying. Do the math yourselves. As far as I know the flat salary was not affectect by the 15% cut and if it was, the amount would be about $3700 less. The new salary structure does include a pay group which kicks in after flat salary. You may or may not be in this group depending on movement. The pay group sucks in my view beacause they average out pay of CRJ(EMB) and RP positions. This means that these positions are all considered the same( $60-70k/yr). In any case, short term pain for long term gain in my view. Still spending two weeks/month at home on average. Heck I should get a part time job somewhere. Is it me or am I repeating the same info a few times now. Anyway hope that answers your question Mr. cessna 150.

[Inuksuk]

Anyone coming into the Red Maple Leaf should take the view it will always be short term pain for long term gain...there is no way around it, and I think this thread has given enough information on the pay, particularly for those who have a genuine desire to join in the fun. But of course, it is all relative, and short term pain might not be that bad, depending where you're joining from.

Again, seems to be a lot of confusion and consternation out there about how much - or how little we get paid, but it's still pretty good for someone like me on the A340/330 sitting in a very good position on the seniority for FOs...

777 here I come! Hope the electronic flight bag fixed next year
:ok:

[brucelee]

Inuk. Yesterday in yul an Emerates 777 was in town parked outside Milton's window. Ramp guys took us for a drive to see it. Very impressive. I also took a peek in one of the hangars and noticed a brand new Jazz 705 urge, also very nice. This company will look very different in the near future. Good time to get in, good time to be in me thinks.

[Inuksuk]

Yep, brucelee. The land of the Maple Leaf is a buzzing, and it is a great time to get in and be here - I've always wanted to do an acceptance flight from the factory - so there's plenty opportunity for me to do that from now on in!

I'll be heading through CYUL, but I guess the Emirates 777 will have gone by then. The 777-300 is one impressive looking machine...

Sorry to keep on talking about Irene - but imagine the fun in the crew rest areas....

:E :E :E

C150Driver - if you have the total time and experience, why not try ? Go on, treat yourself...

P.S. Just so you lot know we can laugh at ourselves...I spotted this good joke...

What's the difference between a golf ball and clitoris ?
An Air Canada widebody Captain spends all weekend looking
for a golfball...:ok:

[meaw]

Inuksuk,

with close to 60 EMJ coming this way have you heard if they are all for growth ( minus the 25 CL65) or are they going to replace 320's......

I also have a couple of friends in the pool and before I get their hopes up do you have solid info about their status in the next round of hiring?

I thought the first new hire classes were only for late this year, now hearing July? Have you got that info too....As you seem in the know.

Guess things are about to take off as they did in the mid 90' when layed off pilots would be recalled and be DC 9 skippers 3 years later.........

[29chev]

Inuksuk,

Just a comment on a point or two.


1. Previous pool to be hired first and EMB FO or cruise relief on the long haulers will be offered based on need and domicile. If you're based in or around YVR, likely cruise relief is all yours

You may be right about this but I think very few YVR bases will be available for new hires if any, as there are 166 of us comeing back from furlough and I would think as high as a 1/3 rd would love to get a YVR base never mind guys/girls who are still on property and have been waiting for YVR bases for a long time. (I have been told it is highly unlikly I can get a YVR base as none have been offered to returning furloughees this from B. Pope's office)


Re: pay I think brucelee is a little closer to the correct numbers and understand low to mid 40's for the first 2 years (not sure about the 15% off of that, I have heard both versions that flat salary was or was not effected depending on who you talk to)

here is the hourly pay for pay group starting in year three with AC you can do the math I think the guys are flying about 80 hours a month.
Weighted hourly rate
Year Day Night 1/2 D&N
3 59.89 63.11 61.50
4 67.98 73.18 70.58
5 71.16 76.54 73.85
6 74.45 80.02 77.24
7 77.63 83.39 80.51
8 80.74 86.89 83.92
9 84.17 90.29 87.23
10 87.41 93.73 90.57
11 88.56 94.88 91.72
12 89.73 96.04 92.89


the pay group scale changes based on a formula and is recalculated every 2 months these numbers are for March and April
29

[Inuksuk]

29 chev:

Year 2 is $47/48 or so, Year 1 is $43 or so. Add the allowances...
I had heard that the reduction does not come off the flat $

On the YVR base - my comments were based on something accredited to Rob Reid speaking at HQ , but your point about the furloughees is valid...

[jumpy737]

Just got the call today, so I can confirm that the pool is indeed active. Now I just have to get my head around the rather large pay cut. Also, was wondering if passes kick in right away or do you have to wait six months....commuting could be difficult without passes.

[slowstream]

Inuksuk,

No pain here, it's status quo and up with nothing but screaming VFR ahead if I am so lucky.......good times ahead for many looking forward to better times
:ok:

[confort977]

Jumpy737....if you don't mind answering, are you with Jazz or do you know people that we're in the pool flying with Jazz and also received the call!!

I'm with jazz and hoping for a chance like everyone else!

[lownslow200]

Brucelee/Inuksuk:

First timer... great info.

I filled out the online application for AC some time ago, did an update 3 days ago and got an e-mail from the "hiring commitee" today. I am puzzled in that the e-mail said to go to the AC website and submit and update your application, also that only applications filed online will be accepted. Is this a standard reply(did not get it the first time) or am I missing something?

Again, thanks for the info.

[WF9F]

I got a call yesterday for a medical in 2 weeks.I have been in the pool since March of 2001. I'm an "off the streeter" with 11,000 hours.
It was a long enough time coming.What an industry.
Looks like it will be a busy summer.

[brucelee]

lownslo200. Unfotunately there is no phone number or person that I am aware of yet that one could call to clarify the status of your application. It sounds to me like the company is concentrating on the pool from the last hiring which I suspect will dry up pretty quick and the rest of you will hear something more positive over the summer. I would strongly suggest updating your application as often as you can just to show interest and recency.
As soon as a contact is revealed, I'm sure it will be posted on this forum.

Jumpy 737. If my memory serves me correct, travel passes kick in after six months but during training the company used to give us
positive space passes to go home on our time off. Hopefully that's still the case. The company will send out an info package in the mail before you begin training. I feel for you on the salary cut. I've said it before and will say it again, it ain't for everybody.

WF9F. Congrats. Good luck.

[lownslow200]

Good luck WF9F

I hope to be in your shoes soon. If things don't get too busy, please update the process here for the rest of us. Like you, I have the time(8+) but not the luck so far.

Brucelee:

I am currently out of work, but I will update. Is it a good idea to attach ref. letters?

Tks.

[jumpy737]

Thanks for the reply about the passes. In answer to another question I used to be at Jazz but left a while ago so I am now off the street. I don't think the LOU is in place anymore for preferential bidding and pay for the Jazz guys so I don't think there will be distinction between regional and off the street. I heard from someone in flight ops recently that there would be around 400-600 guys hired in the next two years so the wave is starting.

[brucelee]

lownslow200. Attach any letters of recc to your elec. res.

Jumpy. In the past, the company had the street guys pick names out of a hat or use exam marks to determine seniority within the class. Ex regionals would of course be ahead (I ended up on A320 because I was a regional) but I believe that's all gone now. I guess more definite info to come as the first group goes through.

[WF9F]

When i got the call my call display did not say AC.It just came up as a name and 905 area code.I know the pay may be lower than a few years ago but short term pain I figure. Especially with the numbers of new hires being thrown around there may be some quick movement in the next 5 years for those who get on early.I don't have much choice as I am unemployed right now from the corporate flying.
BruceLee and Inukshuk I hope to buy you guys a brew , maybe at the Arizona, as your info has been a ray of hope for most of us looking for work.Thanks again.

[doo]

I was away in LHR doing my summer sim and imagine my surprise to see upon my arrival home a email from pilothiring @AC.

Now considering I have never been even offered an interview, nor ever been called etc. despite bags of jet time (Boeing & Airbus), being a citizen of The Great White North (figured I must be too old or too far away), nor did I think I even had an application on file, or at least one that is post 2000, I gotta wonder whats up?

Have the ground rules been changed, or is AC just running out of experienced guys?

[hypoxicdude]

Has everyone been recalled? Are they hiring OTS NOW? I wasn't in the pool before, but would love to get a call to start the process!

[boeing727]

Does anyone know what type and amount of hours AC are looking for when they hire off the street? It seems like there are a lot of 8000 or 10000 hour guys getting calls. What about us little guys with only 3500 hours? Mind you half of that is jet time..so hopefully that will help. It is great the amount of info on this forum, Thanks to everyone for posting on here and sharing all the invaluable info.

[BobZyurUnkl]

I'm sorry if this has been covered, but I don't have time to sift through six pages.
How much pay for year 1, 2, 3 etc, and when do you get on formula, and how much for your first year on formula pay? ( I know formula pay depends on type, but what is this min)

Thanks
Unkl Bob

[Lost in Saigon]

After the recent 15% pay reductions.....

1 – 12th Month
$3,751.87

13 – 24th Month
$4,262.29

You can make a bit more if you get "Drafted" on days off

Third year you go on formula but is not aircraft specific now.
You are in a "Position Group". They lump together all the junior positions and then average out the pay scale. (Emb FO, 767 RP, 340 RP0) It will vary with the number of pilots on each of those aircraft.

Third Year 60,000?

Fourth Year 65,000?

If there is a downturn before you can bid out of the group to 320 FO, you may get stuck on "B-Scale" for a long time.(5-6 years)

Your first year of REAL formula pay will be about 100,000.

Keep in mind the contract has been slashed due to the recent CCAA. (All recurrent training is done with NO pay on your days off)

[brucelee]

Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) in a recent email to all members states that management has advised we will be hiring 600 pilots in the next 12 months and a course likely starting in july. In my opinion the company is now behind the eight ball in pilot staffing. They try to draft us everyday and reserves are low to non egsistant. Recalls and pilot hiring should of happened months ago me thinks. Oh well.

lost in saigon. If I'm not mistaken our salaries can be renegotiated in 2006. This info was given through a recent acpa email. I thought it was 2009. Can you confirm one or the other?

[meaw]

Contract is as follows:

Salaries are open to re-negociation in 2006 and contract as a whole in 2009.

[Canadian Beech]

600 IN THE NEXT 12 MONTHS:ooh: ! Is this true?

[brucelee]

The exact wording was "600 in the next year". I guess that has more than one meaning. What ever way you look at it, 600 is a big number.
meaw- thanx for confirming that. That's what I thought. We'll soon be negotiating 777/87 salaries though. :D

[GearDoor]

I heard the same thing from my furloughed friend. 600 new hires in the next year. However, that doesn't include any growth, only retirements (if I understood correctly). Retirements ramp up quickly within two years to rather large rates. However, the flight schools have known this for years.

I also received an email from the company, instructing me to update my profile. Got about 4300 hours, lots of turbine, no jet time. Keeping fingers crossed for the time being.

[Inuksuk]

I've been on a draft...surprize. So just to add fuel to the fire -

1. The courses start in July - and the 67 and the EMB are taking most of the intake I am told. RP on 67, F/O on EMB.

2. 800-900 new hires in total is what I am told is going to be the number, which includes natural wastage and retirement coverage. Yep, ACPA rep told me that 600 is the "TARGET", and will also explain the worried looks in training - whether AC hires 600 in less than 12 months is another matter entirely - it'll be chaos:\

3. Gear door - your time, if it includes good turbine multi is WAY in excess of what they're looking at - remember I mentioned the quiet rumours on "cadet" type schemes, as a contingency...

Right I am going to get some sleep before the draft bell dings in again.

[brucelee]

Might be a good idea to describe the two positions mostly available, F/O EMB and RP 767 just in case they give you a choice. The F/O position is a regular pilot position on that aircraft. The aircraft is rumured to take over some CRJ and A320 routes which are based in yul and yyz and fly to anywhere in N. America. Some of the best flying might be to the Caribean although that is still to be announced. But most certainly to L.A. and SFO, not to mention some nice layovers in NY, Atlanta, Miami etc. Of course it will also do some rapidairs. I don't know much about the a/c but it is rumured to be pretty high tech and I've seen it up close, pretty nice. Disadvantage is the cold meals. Oh well. Will probably do 2-4 legs a day, 78-85 hrs/month.

The RP on 767 is an overseas operation. Long-haul flights where you do no take-offs or landings. Just position reports and keep an eye on things enroute along with the F/O or Capt. Nice hotels, hot meals and one leg per day but has alot of deadheading. Bring a good book. As it stands now it is a regular PPC on the airplane. Flys about 80 hrs/month. There's more to it but that's the main stuff. Any other input guys?

[Adanac]

Been reading the posts by all of you. I have to say it is really great to see the help coming in from the poeple already on the Red Team!

I have been staying in contact with Slowstream (who is a friend), and he has been pretty pumped about the whole hiring boom, as have I.

I was wondering if anyone can let me know what advantage/disadvantage it would be to work out of CYYC? Is this possible? How would it work if possible? Yadda yadda yadda........?

Any inputs I could get would be of big help. My current application went in today. Now I wait like the rest of you! Best of luck to all who are taking this big step!

Thanks

Adanac

[brucelee]

Adanac.
Out of YYC you would probably be commuting to YYZ on the EMB or 767. Perhaps if you're lucky you might get RP 340 in YVR but not likely right of way. We have many commuters out of yyc to yyz but it's not easy. YVR is a very senior base. It's all do-able but not easy. In time you could get something out of YVR and commute there. Advantage? Great town, yyc. But so is yyz,yul or even yow(easy commute)

[boeing727]

Brucelee,

what do you think my chances are with 3200 hours total time and 1400 hours right seat in a Boeing 727? Surely there must be lots of more qualified people out there with more time than that?

Again I think everyone on this forum appreciates the feedback.

[brucelee]

Boeing 727. There will always be others with more time but that's not all they look at. You probably will be consigered in the 600 or more we are to hire. Good luck.

[lownslow200]

Brucelee:

I have been hearing the numbers and everthing sounds great. I am wondering what the process is when you get the call. Is there a tech. exan, medicial, group secesion...

Tks.

[Adanac]

Brucelee,

Thanks for the reply. The info is helpfull but could you give a little more detail about what one would have to do in order to commute?

As for YYZ, I grew up just outside of there and I agree about it being a great place. Just I have put down roots here and am trying to look at every aspect.

Take care.

Adanac

[brucelee]

lownslow, adnac check your PM.

[MLS-12D]

Pilots who were on the short list before it all stopped will be given the same consideration as new applicants.In other words: "Pilots who were on the short list before it all stopped will not be given any special consideration".

[Cyow]

Sarcasm alive and rampant.

[brucelee]

MLS12-d.
As it were, the company has decided to go to the last pool (to save time?, to be fair? who knows). The info we pass on in this forum is obviously subject to change and always hard to figure out what the company will do as this is the first hiring under the new ACE corporation. Most of it is valid, some may need to be confirmed. I'm not quite sure where you whant to go with your comment.

[meaw]

Has anyone actually been called for a July course yet?

I heard first course late 2005.....I know things change by the minute.

Has anyone been called for an interview yet?

[hibypassratio]

Brucelee, Inuksuk, et al:

Those of us who are working away in other corners of the Canadian industry really appreciate the info provided by you AC insiders.

It has been good to see AC emerging from the difficulties faced by all of the large airlines. Sounds like there is a lot of hiring to come this year and in the years to come hopefully.

How far in to the talent available will it go? I'm seeing guys commenting on here with thousands more hours than myself, and I've been encouraged by the responses.

Personally, I'm just shy of 2000 hours but with 900+ multi-turbine, 200+ of that PIC. All of that is glass/FMS time. Throw on top of that a few hundred hours back seating on a Boeing 3 holer.

Is there an outside shot of a guy like myself getting a call, or am I a couple of busy years away?

[meaw]

Highbypassratio,

It's hard to say what they are looking for but having been hired in the last hiring boom most of my classmates were from extremely different backgrounds and levels of experience.

I had 4000 hours all turboprop.Some guys had L1011 captain time and 10000 hrs+, another had never flown bigger than a Metroliner and had about 4000 hrs, another 2 were ex Snowbirds ,one a 757 FO , and another was flying BE1900's.

I was told that there is not a specific amount of hours to have ( although there is a absolute minimum wich I don't know) or a specific plane to have flown but to fit a certain profile and personality .I know guys with thousands of hours of jet pic who don't get called,others who do and guys with less time and experience who do get called....So I would say there is hope for all.

[brucelee]

Hibypass. It's not easy to tell at this point who AC will hire.It seems that we'll have to wait for the first batch to go through and even then things may change along the way. In my opinion, given the large number of pilots required, anyone with some turbine time may eventually get a chance. Many pilots in this country with high time enjoy where they are and don't whant to leave or leaving is not feasable. The entry level position at AC is not for everyone anymore. This might give the rest a good chance to make it. Only my opinion. Patience and determination have always been a requirement in this industry.

Meaw. Management is aiming for a July course. Training dep is already swamped with the recalls and upgrades and new EMB training so I don't know if they can do it by July.

[Dockjock]

Straight from the AC website, not sure if it was posted on this thread already and I don't wanna bother to check:

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/career/pilots.html

Job Requirements

To fly for Air Canada, pilots must meet certain basic requirements:

Completion of schooling to the university entrance level. Ability to pass the Air Canada and Transport Canada medical and visual acuity requirements for a Category 1 medical certificate.
Canadian Airline Transport Pilot licence, current Instrument Rating and Multi-Engine endorsement.
Canadian citizenship or landed immigrant status.
Pilot applications far exceed job vacancies, so preference is given to candidates with qualifications beyond the basic requirements. Examples of desirable additional qualifications include, but are not limited to:

University degree or college diploma
Aviation College diploma
Military or commercial flight experience
Jet and/or glass cockpit experience
Additional language(s)
Currently Air Canada is not in a hiring phase ...watch this site for future notices on hiring status. In the meantime, you are encouraged to initiate and maintain your profile using the link at the end of this document.

It is anticipated that, in the next phase of pilot hiring at Air Canada, successful applicants will have in excess of 2500 hours of fixed wing flying time in a commercial or military environment.

[hibypassratio]

Thanks, Dockjock.

I had read that, back before I filled out the on-line app. Must of slipped through the gray matter.:uhoh:

[click]

Am I to understand that AC's medical is the same as TC?

Last time I talked with someone about the vision standards was a couple of years ago. Has this changed?

[Kensiko]

Apologies if this question has already been asked...

The 600 hires within the next year, does this iinclude Jazz hiring?

Just curious...

[brucelee]

Latest is that the 600 will take about two yrs. First two courses(July and Aug) are the pool from last time. Only one interview for these guys done by AC management including sim eval and medical. After the "pool is empty" they go to the rest. Two interviews apparantly, one preliminary by this outside hiring firm and if that goes well then you get one with AC management as well as sim and medical exams. No other further details at this point.

[meaw]

Click,


Medical is the same as TC. It used to be different ,more thorough, but a few that failed it sued for discrimination and won a few years back and today if you can hold the TC medical you should not have a problem with the AC one.

[click]

Thanks, that's precisely why I was asking. The last information I had was that AC had their own standards. Ran into a few friends in Dubai that had their share of arguments with the medical and I just wanted to know what the progress on that was.

The next question which is more of a statement....why do they bother doing their own medical if the TC medical is acceptable? It just increases the hassle factor and raises the cost.

Either way, excellent news for us frozen heads out in the far reaches of the universe. Keep the information flowing.:ok:

[slowstream]

Other than the obvious, this has been the very best thread that I have read or seen in years! It's so nice to see posative aspects on a avaition forum!:D

[brucelee]

Without really trying, it just proves wrong the one or two who called AC pilots arrogant. By the way, I know there other companies hiring. Iwas hoping to hear from them as well.

[slowstream]

brucelee,

I don't agree with the name calling, it just brings people and topics down to an ugly level and there's just no need for it. You can find arrogant people in any company or in any industry and they show themselves for who they are, as for the rest of us at least the ones with a half of brain can spot them a mile away and have learned to steer clear. Bloody hell, we're suppose to be professionals, there are some poeple out there who need to learn that we all share the same passion regardless of the uniform! I've been painted with the same brush by others who judge me for where I live and as always I ask them if they can say it to my face.....they never seem to want to..........hmmm. End result, I do not need to waste my time or energy on them. What I do find interesting however is that after the points have been made or issues have been proven that we do not hear from these critics again......that alone should tell others what type of characters we're dealing with.

I have been hearing and working on other company threads as well but it seems that no one else is willing or able to offer up information, too bad, it would be nice.

[Inuksuk]

Me, Arrogant ? God....

After the medical I've just been through with the nurse from hell, I am hoping for some TLC...

[c150driver]

OK, OK, I've thrown my share of crap into the forum...my appologies...Bruce and Inuksuk are definitely doing a good job of keeping us informed...they also seem to be bringing up the moral of this forum too...

[brucelee]

No sweat man, but you're still buying the beer at Arizona's.:O
Cheers.

[slowstream]

No worries mate,

I told you there on me! Good a good table and I'll let you when I am in! We'll have some bloody good laughs I am sure!:ok: :cool:

[Inuksuk]

Actually, I just read some of my own posts on this forum and they are, well, not exactly friendly either...so I stand head bowed in shame...

Anyways, the latest news from the hiring rumour mill is as follows - I was flying with the equivalent of an "oracle" last night -
- Projections on retirals over next 4 years means the hiring is being ramped up for both expansion and natural wastage. There is panic in them thar hills about keeping up with demand.

- The old fuddy duddys will migrate off the line and bolster training, as it is stretched even now

- Pool first, then new hires. Outside screening first, but the agency knows NOTHING about flight crew. Bite your tongue during the first screening...

- There is a tech questionniare, but nothing no-one's not done before. AC Procedures gets the test after you're in

- With the growth of the long hauls with 777 then 787, lots of RP jobs

- A320 fleet is rumoured to reduce in size, and EMB F/O therefore the choice job

- Medical same as TC right now, but AC reserves the right to have its own standards. Understand this is being looked at again...

- Bias at first screen towards professional aviation programme

- Min requirments on the web to be ignored, as they will vary depending on individuals

- Lots of debate out there in corporate image land about the groovy new flight deck uniforms under consideration. Let's hope no checked shirts or mountie hats.

Right, I'm off for a beer, and some ice for the ass after the internal exam :{ Let's hope none of you new guys coming in get the Greek nurse...be afraid, very afraid.:uhoh:

[T3A3S9]

Got the call last Thursday - off to YYZ next week for medical and file-review. Things are finally starting to pick up!





TORONTO LEC NEWSLETTER 2005 #10

May 13th, 2005

FURLOUGHS, RECALLS AND HIRING

There are still 79 pilots on furlough.

The Company has advised that they expect to have offered all remaining furlough pilots the ability to recall within the next few months. Your representatives have been pressing hard for the Company to live up to the verbal (and in some cases written) commitments to the furloughed pilots to grant a LOA at the time of recall to fulfill commitments they made to their current employers. While progress has been made, we still have no final agreement from the Company on this issue and the Recall Protocol remains incomplete.


It should also be noted that Company officials have indicated to us that we will likely be hiring 600 pilots in the next year and will likely run a new hire course as early as July.

[click]

Inuksuk is right on this one...

A320 fleet is rumoured to reduce in size, and EMB F/O therefore the choice job

CSA Czech Airlines bought a bunch of new A320's and has to fill the gap right now with some used ones. Rumor has it that some will be coming from Air Canada. Given the past history of our acquisitions, which usually arrived held together by speed tape and a prayer, I am impressed. No more waiting a couple years to get the sand out of the cockpit.:}

Dang, rubber glove treatment... the old bend over and let me tickle yer tonsils bit, eh? Now there is a reason for my blood pressure to go ballistic! I'll lay off the salt if they lay off the latex. :suspect:

[confort977]

There is a A321 in yqb with the CSA colours...maybe that rumour is true!

[GearDoor]

Inuksuk,

Just when I thought this thread was dead, more awesome info.

Like I mentioned before, I received an email from the company requesting to update my e-application. From what I understand, not everyone received the same email. I can only keep my fingers crossed that that is a good sign.

I have well over the "min" hours stated on the website (4300), with a fair chunk of ME turbine >12.5 time. I am daydreaming about an interview by the fall.

I went to an professional aviation programme (and graduated), and managed to complete a degree as well. I am hoping that will help me get to the interview. I'm only 31 too.

It sounds like the first interview with the HR contractor will be the wild card. Be interesting to hear some feedback from the first interviewees.

RP on a heavy would be awesome. Get to see some new parts of the world that I havn't seen before and I suspect there would be a fair bit of time off, too.

[boeing727]

Does anyone know if second officer time is considered by AC towards total time or is it worthless. I am led to believe that Westjet counts it as half time so I wasn't sure if AC does.

[brucelee]

Boeing727. S/O time does not count but they do consider the position to have some value. As I have stated in previous threads, you will not be hired because of one thing alone. Rather they look at the overall package.

Inuk. Better the greek nurse than old man Dr. T.

[yahntzeid]

Does anybody know at this stage what aircraft the sim evaluation will be in regarding the interview process?

[29chev]

They used the 737-200 last time they were hireing but not sure what they will use this time.
Good luck
29

[confort977]

Alpa & Acpa are meeting on june 13th....anyone knows what's it's all about??

[brucelee]

All that was mentioned was "common concerns" shared with other Star Alliance pilots. Yeah right. There's more to it gents. Probably no big deal but we'll just have to wait.

[jumpy737]

My guess is that Air Canada ISN'T getting the experienced pilots applying that it needs to expand. The starting salary and initial working conditions are enough of a deterrent that they are looking to the connectors to fill the gap in that expereince level. I for one couldn't make the jump due to family and financial reasons and have turned down the file review and medical (after 4+ years in the "pool"). I'm sure that many are in the same boat and that is why global solutions are back on. Embraer captain went to 1999 which is enlightening because thay haven't hired since 2001. I'm sure that we'll see a situation like we did around 1996 when AC was hiring direct entry captains and they went to the connectors to get that experience........again good luck to all at AC. I'm wishing that one day you'll all be a happy family again.

[Inuksuk]

It's tough for new guys coming on, of that there is no
doubt, and I had a long chat with a management guy about the hiring plans, and he admitted that they are very worried, because the demand is outstripping the supply of candidates that fit the "bill". In fact, "panic" is not too strong a word for it.

In my humble opinion, we need to make it more attractive...and after my many years in a safe block, I feel privileged not to have been too badly affected by AC's trials and tribulations and will help anyone who wants in through the red and white door as much as I can. Brucelee feels the same....

PM me for specific info...

[DesertDawg]

Longtime lurker here... Brucelee, Inuksuk, et al gracias, your information has been greatly appreciated...

Now in regards to hiring, a guy with 3500ish total(mostly turbine), 1000 jet(550/560xl), 1200 pic, college... does he(me) stand a chance? I'd like to think the experience I've accumulated over my career so far would be fairly attractive to an employer such as AC. Given my situation it'd be a substantial paycut, but I'm more than willing to trade the cozy confines of the Middle East for a schedule and the comforts of home...

[brucelee]

Jumpy737. The situation AC is facing now isn't much different from the one it faced last time. Of course there are those who can't "afford" to make the move. But I'm willing to bet that there are just as many who will do it. I can recall my course five years ago had mostly pilots who were making more money than AC was offering. Some took a $80K/yr cut. It all depends on everyone's situation. I suspect there are just as many pilots out there now as there were in the past who are willing to take the temporary salary cut. As for direct entry captain Emb, I don't think you'll see much of that. Most 767 fo and A320 fo are going to take that one. Not to mention RJ captains.
If you're trying to say that Alpa and Acpa are meeting to discuss hiring deals, I really don't think so. Management are the only ones who hold the cards on that one. My guess is that AC will get its experienced help. Just like last time.

[brucelee]

"On Friday recall letters were mailed to all furloughed pilots with the anticipation that all will be required for aircraft courses between now and the end of July. With new hire pilots most likely required for Embraer training in August, a new hire course is tentatively planned for mid-July. As a result, file reviews are currently being conducted on those pilot candidates who were previously interviewed, tested and in some cases medicaled, when we stopped hiring in 2001. As a reminder, if you know of any pilot interested in Air Canada, applications are being received, on line only, via the Air Canada website."

This is from latest AC flt ops web site recently put out in the past week. Sounds like those hired in the near future will be Emb 170/190 FOs. YYZ/YUL bases.

[meaw]

Just talked to a friend who has been on the waiting list since 2001 and has a course in mid-July. The training department says first course of 20 in July with a course of 20 each month until new-year's.

[Frankie_B]

Just wondering,

Realistically, what do these hirings mean for the industry as a whole, if anything?

[Canadian Beech]

Probably nothing... I wouldn't bother to apply:p

[Wiggum75]

just to add in the two cents - Thanks brucelee and inukshuk! I've been lurking for a while and this stuff is great.

:ok:

[brucelee]

"RECALL LETTERS HAVE BEEN MAILED TO ALL FURLOUGHED PILOTS, WITH
RESPONSES EXPECTED LATER THIS WEEK. FILE REVIEWS ARE BEING CONDUCTED ON PILOTS WHO HAD COMPLETED THE HIRING PROCESS WHEN WE STOPPED RECRUITING IN 2001. OUR FIRST COURSE OF NEW HIRES IS TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED FOR JULY 11TH. "

From June 01 flt ops letter.

[Inuksuk]

Also heard that Jazz pilots are now being invited to apply - and the news comes from their head of flight ops who send round info...

[GearDoor]

I heard the same thing on a different forum yesterday.

[confort977]

GOOD NEWS! Since we all made an effort to help ACE during CCAA we should have access as anyone else to these position!

[29chev]

This off the mec info line.

We have confirmed with the Company that
LOU 18 - Transition of Connector Pilots, as amended in 2003, is in effect
and we will abide by it. You can review this on the ACPA website under
Contract.

Good luck to all
29

[CanAV8R]

I hope everyone gets a crack at the Big Red. You Jazz guys deserve a shot as much as anyone. Heard rumours there are guys at WJ that are looking to jump accross. Said to be a couple of hundred. This comment was not intended to start a WJ vs AC arguement. My guess is some guys sitting in the right seat living miles from home (TO/Mont/Halifax) etc that just want to get home!


How many Jazz guys will give it a go? What about fellas from Skyservice, Transat, Flightcraft, ACE, Canjet etc?? Lots of jet people out there....

Comments?

[in limbo]

Intresting:ooh:
WestJet guys leaving to go to Big Red.
Just goes to show that not everyone near the bottom is as happy as the guys at the top.

[meaw]

Just got the e-mail from ACPA that the negotiations for the pay rates on the 777 and 787 have broken down.The company wanted the matter settled before the June 10th meeting of the board of directors before finalising the purchase order.Looks like it might not get done by then and the order is now in limbo....

Are we about to get screwed again....

[in limbo]

It is a never ending story at Air Canada.
I truly wonder if things will ever be able to function normally.:(

[justcurious]

Will my Service Air time help?

[Dockjock]

Could someone from AC please update the info on AirlinePilotCentral.com (http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/96/11/)? I hear now that probation pay in year one is only $38,000 and year two around $43,000. If so the info on that site is outdated and it would be much appreciated by all of us applying to be able to see the new numbers! Cheers.

ps. $38K? ouch

[CK1]

I think that the info on this thread has been great for those of you looking to join us. I thought I would post this little bit of info because it just came out today straight from Micheal Downey.

FILE REVIEWS ARE CURRENTLY BEING CONDUCTED ON PILOTS WHO WERE PREVIOUSLY INTERVIEWED AS PART OF OUR HIRING PROCESS IN 2001. WITH THE FIRST NEW HIRE COURSE PLANNED FOR JULY 11TH, WE SEE THE REQUIREMENT TO HIRE UP TO 600 PILOTS OVER THE NEXT 24-30 MONTHS. AGAIN, APPLICATIONS WILL ONLY BE ACCEPTED ON-LINE.

I'm sure every body can do the math has to how many AC believes they will need to hire a month. I also think that beyond 30 months they will keep hiring.

Good luck to all.

[brucelee]

Dockjock.
Where did you get those salary figures? I was under the impression that flat salary was untouched in the CCAA agreement. I looked back at my records and saw $53 an hour at about 80 hrs/month. This goes back to 2000.

[lownslow200]

Brucelee:

Was wondering if any "off the streeters" have been called or is it only guys from the last pool have got the word.

[brucelee]

lownslow200.
Not sure if anyone not on the previous shortlist has been called. I suspect they are preparing a new shortlist for the rest. I think there were 70 or more on the previous list. If that's the case, the Sep or Oct course will be the first of many for the rest. It would be good to hear from those who have been called. Anyone with more info?

[Dockjock]

brucelee,
I heard them from a friend who is in the pool awaiting his course date. I normally trust him to be supremely "in the know" regarding these things, but had also heard/read from other sources that the first 2 years probation salary was untouched. Just trying to get the most current info! Cheers.

[brucelee]

Dockjock.
Sounds like your source is pretty reliable. At the same time I will endevour to put this very important question to rest once and for all. It may take a while.

[Flexable]

Check this link http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/96/11/

numbers pretty accurate 1st yr C$42.9K 2nd C$48.7K

[GearDoor]

Has anyone not in the hiring pool been contacted for an interview yet? I havn't heard of anyone getting called yet.

[Dockjock]

I am curious about that, too. The first course is July 11 and apparently that is not even full yet. Not sure what constitutes a full course, but probably 20 pilots? That sounds like about enough new F/O's to crew 4 EMB 170's if there are 5 crews per. Does anyone know the delivery schedule of the new jets? The first is slated to go on line in August, but with a new course of 20 I would think more pilots would be needed within at least a month after that, and so that would mean a mid-August course as well for September deliveries. Assuming AC is going to give people at least 3 weeks notice to leave their current job it would seem interviews would have to start sometime in early July, and so calls should be going out as we speak I would think (but haven't heard of anyone getting one yet either).

[Mikey21]

don't quote me on that, but I think, there were 5 coming in july, and about 3 every month for 5 months after that.

But honestly, it doesn't look like there is much going on for a company that was suppose to hire guys yesterday???

I saw, I mean we , we saw an emb 170 or 190 not sure, with the Emb colors in YYZ for about a week now.
Didn't see the Reg.. was, mean ,we were wondering if it was an AC one??
Can anyone comment? If it was I thought it would have been painted?

Hopefully things will be happening soon, moral needs it.
Good luck to you all.

[Dockjock]

I believe that was a demonstrator on loan from Embraer to AC to use for ground crew, flight attendant, catering, and other logistics-type training issues in advance of getting their first actual delivery.

[bcflyer]

They have been interviewing guys from Jazz for a couple weeks now. Not sure about off the street though.

[brucelee]

Mikey21.
"But honestly, it doesn't look like there is much going on for a company that was suppose to hire guys yesterday???"

The Emb in the manufacturer's colors is a lowner from Emb. It is being used to do initial line indoc and line checks on our first batch of Emb pilots on some rapidair routes. First AC Emb to arrive third week in July. A rate of 3 per month after that. Last of A340-300 just arrived. That's it for now from Airbus. Two more 767-300s coming later this summer. First course of new hires starts Mon Jul 11. Next one tentatively sched for Aug 1st. Not sure what the numbers are, but hiring is supposed to continue for the next two years. Not much has changed since this thread was started. We will probably have more info once this course starts.

[MarkD]

bruce

any chance of a bit more detail on the last arriving 340s - AC says 10 as of June 05, is the one arrived now the only one since then or is the final total more than 11? Was this the ex Air Jamaica 343-311 or was that a previous one?

Are all the AC 767s in MHV now back out that will ever come out or are there a few aircraft that could still be retrieved?

thanks

[brucelee]

MarkD.

Fin 983, A340 came from Bordeaux and I believe that it is our tenth but not sure. The 67s are coming from Europe and S. America but again I will have to verify that from a more reliable source.