Emirates Meeting On 18th

[BYMONEK]

Just found out from a local Pilot that there is going to be a meeting held at training college on 18th April, 1100-1300. VP Engineering/operations will be there and all Pilots are welcome....providing you're a UAE National! Is this something new? Perhaps they will be asked to join the rest of us in the provident fund instead of only 15 years service before they 'retire' on 75% final salary pension.Just think of the savings to be had with that.......now,where's my 'bright ideas' form? :rolleyes:

[radnav]

Nothing to get too worked up about.

In the interest of keeping up good moral, the National pilots are just being briefed to be discreet about their 25% salary increase as the Expat pilots will not unfortunately qualify for it.

[sanddancer]

No, surely it's to tell them not to be too disheartened when we get 25% and they get 15%...as if!

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Divide and rule if you ask me, classic tactic. Mind we all joined on different contracts from the nationals. Hardly helps things does it though??? :{

Keep Discovering

SyB :zzz:

[ekslave]

An update from a local "with connections"

Meeting on the 18th with Al retard for locals to be told to keep quiet about their 25% payrise as expats to get NOTHING !!!

keep discovering !!!

[MR8]

Can't believe that locals would get 25% and expats nothing.. Sounds like a windup to me, or the local just taking the piss and you taking it serious...
Anyhow, sorry for you guys at Crew Control, but this effoh is not available for the 'nice trips available' on my days off... Not untill there is some communication about DEC's and Factoring. I don't care if it's Europcar or EK or the maintenance guy of my building who's driving me to the airport.. it's time for TCAS to 'bust' some important rumours.. or is he affraid that when they get honest, 20% of the F/O's will go back to their previous company, and no new guys will come in??

What about the rumour that only 2 out of 8 showed up for the last 777 course?

MR8

[ekpilot]

Saw TCAS in the briefing the other morning, or rather should I say I saw a lonely old guy standing around whilst everybody ignored him! Boy was it funny to see! :D

[porkandbrew]

Well, if this is true I will be off to Abu Dhabi in a flash :D .
My missus has already approved my plans, enough of bending over:eek: . The difference in pension plans between expats and locals is also bizarre, but different pay adjustments would be too much. After all, if the pay is changed, it's going to have to be a whole lot to actually be considered a rise.

I am so glad I didn't buy one of them crusty concrete blocks out in the desert. PHHEEEW! :ok:

Porkandbrew

[Payscale]

Unrealistic! just a wind up mail! Think they get more than us anyway. I dont really mind. Wish we did the same back home.

Anyone to confirm that 7 nationals are leaving for Etihad?

[MR8]

Move to AD? Well, I reckon you can bend over there as well, only to be shafted by a different :mad:

The only way to avoid being taken up ur :mad: over here is to pretend incompetence and thus become eligable for a management position.. ;)

MR8

[Payscale]

If u have nothing better to offer, I suggest you take up another hobby, MATE

[SPEED ALT*]

Hay
just to let you know they are 4 auh guys going accross the road to EY .
And for everyone else this meeting is been held yearly for the locals if you don't already know:* I don't know you how long you guys been here but in last meeting FOR LOCAlS ONLY they ask for a PAY rais:hmm: but tey've been ASK TO S**T UP:confused: and maybe it's time for the unhappy pepole to leave EK and find some other job:E I.E levae the nice house all the insurnces the car that pick you up and the 50% disc you all get for the EPC:sad:

[donpizmeov]

I think Speed Alt* has it right. Forget pay and conditions. Think we need to start advertising the fact that we get to live in houses, get driven to work, and can join a pilot organised club to get discounts!! Reckon it will rise from the famous 20 to 25 suckers per day to over 30!!!
Makes living with poor pay, and working conditions seem insignificant really.
Next time you are feeling a bit weary in the car on the way home, after a dawn landing, after the all nighter flight from hell, pull out your EPC card and revive in the glow of knowing that when you get a day off you will be able to get a good discount at the pub.
All makes sense now.

Don

[Believe Brother]

Hey Don, let me say congrats for being able to translate speed alt's rant. Well done! And I agree with you. I'll now treasure that EPC card even more (wasn't the EPC started by expats)? And the next time my family or myself is nearly wiped out by a Land Cruiser with blacked out windows (won't have to wait long for that), I'll have a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that one of those EK insurnces (sic) will pay my hospital bills or death benefits!

[SPEED ALT*]

donpizmeov
maybe you have been slaved around by EK for a bit and that's what i'm talking about why not find another JOB:eek: if it is so bad here and you've been a bat ;) for some time you need to get your act togather it's either over time or quilty off life :hmm: you don't need to be sucker no 25 if EPC not giving you what you like HMMMMM let me thing eat in 5 stars hotel and pay nothing or get every where free or with special price:oh: next time you go to work take your own car so when you get back from your nighter you will enjoy the ride back home . BE safe

Believe Brother
why do you want you family to use the insu this way:confused: Iknow that EPC been done by EXPATS and i'm sure they made it in a way that the EXPATS will get the best out of it :8 or you don't agree with me? i tell you what if the medical is so S**T and you're still using it maybe you should go back home where it's better:suspect: take it easy

[Quod Boy]

Speed Alt*.

I appreciate english is not your mother tongue,but your rant is virtually unreadable,try lying down in a dark room,for a few minutes,before posting,you will make more sense,than at present.

Don and BB are entitled to their opinion,as are you,so take it easy,and by the way,I think we could ALL gain from the feedback at the UAE meeting,and why it si being held.

Good luck to the 5 going over the road,to EY,if the "deal" at EK fails to deliver,to each and every INDIVIDUAL pilot,then each of us can vote with our feet.

As have 11 this last week,including the 5 from AD.

Im off to the pub,with my EPC card.

QB

[donpizmeov]

Speedie,
I have nothing bad at all to say about EPC. It is a great thing, and the effort put into it by its founders and runners is understated. It is however not part of this famous EK package, that we are told about. It is a extra, by the pilots for the pilots. I do not think any discount offered by this club should be used instead of a pay rise, but maybe you have different ideas? I would be very interested to find out.
And no I have no problem with the car to work. Its a great idea. I also like my ALT, medical coverage and all the other stuff that was offered when I signed the contract.
I am sure that you have even noticed that the working environment around EK has changed quite a bit over the past few years. Yes it has grown a whole lot bigger, and yes this does cause problems. But really isn't a management team paid to deal with this in a professional manner? I think the way the rostering, pay, upgrades etc have been handled recently has done a lot of harm to manager vs pilot relations. Seems the phrase, team building, has not been understood by those in office.
I am sorry Speedie but I think it is sad to watch a once great job decline into just another job in such a short time period.

Don

[EZGOEK330FO]

Speed Alt*,
I think you are missing the point. The issue is not the EPC which is a great organization run by pilots for pilots. Nor is it the food on board or the pick up by a car. Emirates has been advertising for good quality pilots, engineers etc saying that they are an employer of choice, and employer for lifetime able and willing to be above average and caring and commited to the development and wellbeing of its assets, its people. You do not have to take my word for it, watch the great DVD they pass around or read the interviews the bosses give to varoius magazines around the world. They have recruited all this talent, created high expectations, and now they are not delivering the promissed behaviour or the promissed caring and proactive management they said they would be practising. It is not our fault that we are upset, they recruited the wrong type of people if they wanted us to sit down and shut up. If they wanted to be average they should have recruited average guys, then there would be no problem. You cannot expect though in any free market that you will hire above average work force, expect above average performance and then provide below average behaviour. It is not just the money issue, it is their complete disregard for what they have signed. My contract has changed in the last two years so many times without my concent, but always to "my benefit" or at most "cost neutral for the company" which is a joke. Every time they find a problem they have created, they solve it by changing the rules. A five year old can do that.
We all came here because we were promissed the world, we were promissed to be part of a great aviation comapny in its making. We all realize that we are here to help Dubai achieve its dreams but we are not slaves, nor are we only here for them. We bring in our talents, provide hard work and expect not only a decent salary for the inconvenience of leaving home but also good working conditions. I am not afraid of hard work, I have done my fair share in EZ, but at least it was legal and regulated. Here we have been flying upto 150 hours unfactorized which is not only unsustainable hard work, it is also ilegal and dangerous. But hey if you think about it is in our interest both in the short term and in the long term. The great management team have realized that if you are always working you do not have the time to spend your money thus a pairise not needed, and if you die early because of all this hard work you do not need to worry about retirement and old age. See it is in "our benefit again."
Management raised the total hours required for a command upgrade from 4000 to 6000 they raised the hours for the accelerate command from 6000 to 8000 all in the name of safety, but yet seem not to care about fatigue and its safety implications.
We are all working here in detriment to our future, both for our health and financial. Those of us who realize that a nice lifstyle on the beach through the EPC is not enough are starting to vote with our feet. We all have choices, it just takes effort on our part. You can either wait around for crums from EK or you can do something about it.
The end of April is just around the corner and we shall see what the future holds for us. Anything less than 18% increase in pay (3% a year and 15% announced by the government) would be a joke, and 7-8 weeks of profit share is what they should give us as next year's increase in salaries should be reflected in next years profit share and not this one's. If have been around enough though to realize that this will not happen and although I was at Trader Vick's last night I am still sobber enough to realize fantasy from reality.
EPC has no discount at Trader's though so I did not benefit from any great discounts.....
Keep Discovering
By the way I was speaking to one of the guys in the know regarding no shows and he said that out of the 34 pilots who have not shown up for their 777 course 14 were from Malaysia. It is not just the Europeans who are not coming, it is also good sensible people from other regions around the world who can see the truth behind the lines.
Off to work again..

[Shake]

EZGOEK330FO:

Good post...

Hire guys with get up and go, and guess what? If they're treated with the contempt shown, they get up and go. Add to the 'no shows' 45 resignations (fig from HR) and others timing departure post profit share, then EK have problems, serious problems, problems that won't be factored away.

[White Knight]

Regarding the Malaysians - there was an article I think in Gulf News about Malaysian looking at giving their pilots a "significant" payrise... that'll certainly sway a few of them:ok:

[turtleneck]

Guys:
don't show up at any not mandatory meeting
don't apply for any additional job or post
don't go to work on days off
don't participate in surveys
stay low profile and try to convince LH guys to do just so
continue to ignore TCAS + managers unless adressed
to the outside give only facts + truth about changing terms

it's all legal and only reflects the treatement endured
would be extremely easy and quick to change above behaviour wouldn't it
otherwise EY's impending roadshow will be a knock out!

[SPEED ALT*]

Quod Boy
what you know Eng is not may mother lang but at least i try to get it better by the day .lying in a dark room is not my way of doing things maybe it's yours so spare me the time:ok:

Hay don , EZGOEK330FO
I'm not on the company side or trying to defind them all I'm trying to be is fair they give us these benefit but totally agree that we are under paid not comparing world wide but just around here (gulf area) we are the least paid pilots:{ I don't know how could they justify not giving us the 15% pay incs(may be my eng is bettr now:ugh: ) when the gov gave it to everone eles and all around the news they talking about how expnsv is dxb or shall i say U.A.E is getting .I agree with turtleneck when he says not to fly in days off coz some one is looking good by saying he has enough man power if we fly in days off and why we just get paid only for the first day ??? just to let you gays know that F/O inQA is paied 19000dhs p/m with out flying and they get paied by the hr GF F/O without flying is getting 18500dhs p/m and they get pay 12dhs by the hr from on duty to off duty air arabia F/O get paied 21000 dhs inc housing and 120dhs per hr for flying :mad: :eek:

WE DO NEED AS EZGOEK330FO said 18% . I think we just have to do our rosters as long as it is with our body limit if we feel it's more than we take or it's effecting our life we have to draw the line by any means ;) i'm sure every one have his own way.:ok:

P.S from the inside of EY the will change there pay scale in oct when they get thier B777
take it easy guys and fly safe

[Believe Brother]

After reading the last couple of posts, I realize most of us are all saying the same thing. A nice last post too speed alt*. I understand better now that you guys are also frustrated. It makes it clear to me why we all air concerns here. I think we all do want to be part of a great organization, and I think most would rather not have to choose to vote with their feet. Unfortunately, we all have different tolerance levels and the treatment by the senior management is causing people to exceed those tolerance levels, and hence resign. I hope some of those managers read these last few posts and absorb this. We would rather stay and make things better than just walk away pissed off. EK has recruited an excellent group of pilots, and part of being an excellent pilot is to voice concern when we see problems approaching, rather than waiting for the problem to reach critical mass. That is not whinging.

[SecurID]

Believe Brother, very nicely put.

[donpizmeov]

Hmmmm historic moment. A few posts in a row that seem to all agree on the same things!!!
Speedie, nice post. I hope for all our sakes that the meeting on the 18th is more productive than the pilot meetings of the past.
Right on the money with your last post Believe Brother.

Now that we are in the world of make believe, and advances on three weeks, 3% and a speech that we are all lucky to have a job?
Don

[jumbo1]

The sad thing with all this is what management forget is that as a pilot group we have a vested interest in the success of the company as we are generally there for a career. Managers come and go and are often in it for what they can get out of it NOW or in a 3 year term then leave.
When it comes to long haul flying, why reinvent the wheel when there are a mass of guys with long haul experience to tap into to help setting up the operation. Maybe then it would avoid a situation where the 1st 8 ER's must be taken off line to go back to Boeing and have the crew rests retrofitted at a huge cost I am sure. This after money was probably paid to have them removed in the 1st place. What a waste of money! But don't dare carry an extra bit of gas. Doesn't take a genius to figure you need proper crew rest facilities to fly long haul. This is only 1 example of the total disregard for expertise within the company.
Reinvent the wheel - we know better than the rest of the aviation world. Keep discovering!
We cannot afford to lose good people due to bad management.

[Check 'Six']

Now we can move ahead as a team!!

We are all in on this together my fellow colleagues. UAE Nationals and Expats.

So, to our UAE brothers. When you go to this meeting on the 18th. Do not be afraid to speak your minds and do not settle for second best!! Believe it or not, you actually speak for all of us!

They will probably try to convince you otherwise and maybe even try and bully you!! Dont take anymore of this arrogant nonsense! Why? Because now, they dont have a choice! We are in the middle of this mass expansion and whether they want to or not, they have to start coming up with all the right money and ATTITUDE!

I agree with all the posts above. Fly to rule!! Days off means exactly that!! I am tired of these thank you letters every year about our efforts. Now you can pay us instead!!

Job offers i.e TRI's/ CRM's etc.... The answer is NO THANK YOU.

No attendance to any meetings, unless it's the big bosses themselves. The last time we met with them, certain aspects were changed for the better. Any other managers or VP's, we are not interested!

Okay!! Chaff, flares...... Break Right and Check your Six.

[Dissapointed]

A few guys posting on this forum hardly constitutes a 'combined effort.' If you have a look at the regulars here, there are really only about 10 us that make the effort to say something. Why are the other 1100+ not saying anything? Maybe they really are happy after all. :confused:

[ac100]

Gentlemen,

I admire the cohesive tones of everyones post above, but the problem that the pilot group is facing is one that words on pprune alone will not solve.

Aviation companies are run by non aviation educated management and therefore will never understand cost management at any level. Their careers are based on one simple rule the bottom line. This figure that they try to obtain is a short term economic figure that justifies there positions and onward career growth. This point can be justified by the fact that EK decide to remove crew rest areas on the B777-300ER at a cost of 2 Million dollars per aircraft, as these areas were included in the general specs of the aircraft and not an option. Having looked at the numbers for the aircraft, the crew rest areas will have to be refitted if the company would like to make the aircraft a profitable one.

As mentioned in above posts, their career path will, relatively speaking, have them at any company for a short period of time as compared to the pilots, whom strive to build a career at a major airline.

The only people that you can look towards to protect your interests are FLT OPS management and we all know that once that line has been crossed they become self serving. TCAS and those that proceeded him have come/came because it suited their personal plan. Their loyalities, or lack of, have clearly been viewed by the lack of improvements to working conditions, terms & conditions and overall appreciation by the company.

Emirates was at a cross roads 2 1/2 years ago when they placed the immense order of aircrafts. they had the choice of being a world class carrier or following the path that could lead them to ruin. Unfortunately, we are now seeing the fruits of the managements choices. If the present bleeding in staff resignations continues, coupled with the lack of new arrivals in FLT OPS aircrafts will be parked very soon. Flights have been cancelled recently due to insufficient crews.

The problem at the company are vast and no matter how the accounts and managers try to conceal the damage by cutting costs, the effects will be felt.

We do not have a voice within the company, we serve a purpose and the value of are expertise is taken for granted. There are a couple of solutions that can resolve the current problems we have as a pilot group and they are as follows:

1. Vote with you feet and do not look back. there are amounst us people who cry a river but are waiting for everyone else to leave in order for things to improve. Once again, self serving individuals who do not have anyones interest at heart except there own.

2. As a united group have the courage to write to the Chairman and explain the path the company is taking due to the people running his airline. the would include TC and the rest below him. If anyone here believes that upper management is not aware of the current crisis, you would be wrong! they choose to ignore the issues as we are a expendable commodity in their eyes.

Unfortunately, option one is the most viable as we are the only professionals in the world who would stab a friend to get ahead. that is MHO, as i have witnessed it in every avaition position in my career. We are ruthless with each other and airline management take advantage of that fact.

I could continue to write but my point would become diluted.

The national pilots have their aspirations and we as expats have ours. there will never be a day when those interests will meet as one. I say to those of you who voice your opinions on pprune, to concentrate your efforts on being more constructive with your anger. Form a piots association, NOT A UNION, which would allow you to voice the concerns of the pilot group to upper management. Not TC, but the Chairman himself or Mr. Flanagan. they are the only two people who can objectively deal with your concerns as their interests are with the development of the airline.

I believe it is possible and may solve some of your problems far quicker than the normal channels. Use the resources at hand and see that your future is secured. I am no longer in the environment as i felt it best to vacate while i still had fond memories of the place.

I have many thoughts but cannot subject you to them, however i wish you all the best for the future, no matter where that might be.

AC100

[wilco77]

TO ALL YOU GUYS IN EMIRATES!!!


JUST A WORD OF ADVICE..... TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AN EXPANDING COMPANY DONT LET THEM CONTROL YOU . YOU CONTROL THEM...... ITS LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GETTING WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE. COME ON YOU ALL CAN DO BETTER...



;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[SPEED ALT*]

Nice post DOn and BB all of you gays are agreeing on the same thing with diffrent ideas to solve it ,Someone mintion on an early post DIVID AND RULE method that TCAS and the great mind coast cutting ENG :8 are using now and they working hard enough on it so it works for thier best . One big problem they convince higher mang with is that they get pilots at any time and thier pool is full of APPLICATIONS ofcourse they only short by few pilots (just under 100!!) and the new bidding system with the fatiuge thing belt in it will cover this shortage apart of having to find pilots with low standerd have them to do the 8 week course and finsh on time so on the line you get roborts to fly the A/c with no clue whatsoever about using their commonsence if they have any :E .As you gays mintiond above these gays come and go and to make the best out of thier 3 years or whatever they have to find someone to balme and call them THE ASKING FOR MORE PEPOLE or THE NEVER HAPPY CHAPS !! IT'S ALWAYS US THE PILOTS .But what do we KNOW about saving any mony for the company ! they now better THE LATEST BEING SEZ IS 4 CREW NOW so someone will always be called from his day off to do it that's saving money and looking good for the big boss:mad: we got to fly the hole night coz someone between 4 wall go to work at 7 have a good coffee call his miss on and then say this is oneway of cost cutting why let the crew stay over night where they can go do turn around when they are 4 and anyway pilots are not working hard enough they get 8 days off :ok: then MR Company man go home play with his kids where the not working hard pilots are still at FL370:mad: :mad: :mad: Iwould like it if we can get our voice to the Chirman as ac100 says but how could we:confused:

THE FACT is these mang are forgetting that PILOTS are the back bone of an airline you can have as many mang or shall i say space cadiet that make things work! in the end non of them will fly the A/c so they can plan as much as they want they are still not going to have it working with out us .it's called airline so someone have to be up there if they dont like it they can call it manegline and then we will see how good can the do (use donkeys to take pax from A to B)

They are ignoring SAFETY taking the standerd down the drain and hiding in the SCARREY dirc they are killing the airline in the name of coas cutting We got to find away to stop this just do your rosters no extras by flying in days off we are not helping the company but we are helping the mang to make the fake fig look true.:sad:
hope you all had a good week end:)

[Dissapointed]

Iwould like it if we can get our voice to the Chirman as ac100 says but how could we

Call DNATA head office on 04 2951111 and ask to speak to Sheikh Ahmed's secretary. You will get through and she will give you an email address.

Alternatively go to the meeting on the 27th at the Jumeirah Beach Hotel and if you have nothing to lose, then when the forum opens up for questions to His Highness and Mr. Flanagan, tell them exactly what you think. But for your own sake, be nice to them! After the last meeting, Adel got his pants in a twist cos the pilots were disrespectful.

Anyway, go to the meeting anyway, the food is free and you won't have to worry about the cost of feeding yourself that day I guess, so that is a bonus in itself!

[MR8]

Which meeting the 27th?? Didn't get anything on that..
So, we got a meeting on the 18th for UAE nationals, we got a meeting the 27th for ??? but I'm not yet invited..

[Dissapointed]

The announcement of the Group Annual Report. You should have had an email. All Pilots and Engineers are invited.

[maddog62]

Nice post DOn and BB all of you gays

I knew they where all gays.....hi...hi...hi...:}

mad

[MR8]

No email for me.. Maybe I don't moan enough in CBC to be considered as a real pilot. :rolleyes:
Maybe in my pigeonhole.. or just Persona Non Grata..
Could anyone ask for a doggybag for me??:}

[Quod Boy]

Shake,

You quote 45 pilots resigning,info from HR,over what time period though?

Is that in the last few weeks or couple of years?

Can you elaborate,if its 45 recently,that is surely a cause for concern,that cannot be wrtten off as " a few,waiting to collect profit share?"

12 pilots is 1%,and if new joiners are not showing up,then thats a serious manpower situation???Is it not??

Cheers,QB

[Trashed Aviator]

Well lets use the EPC as a recruitment centre,
many pilots here have contacts in the outside world that can help source jobs and put them on a list withs terms and conditions. The trouble with getting a new job is normally finding it , most pilots only know what its like in there home country , there is probably some hidden gems out-there if people want to share information....
Instead of bitching lets help each other ....:ok:

[Can't think of a name]

Dear Speedie, Don, Ezgoek330fo, and Ac100,

Great Posts guys! To say any more regarding situational assessment of the company's position would be a repetitive exercise. I just sincerely hope that our management will read and digest such constructive and objective input. There is just one thing I would like to add.....

To all guys reading this,

The option of going to see management personally is, believe it or not, a very effective tool. Call AS's secretary and make an appointment. Go see him and present a well constructed and objective case/opinion. That simple and professional act will not get you in trouble, and you can walk away knowing that at least you did your bit to raise awareness (or confirm already known information) at AS's level. ........And yes, I did.

Did that single visit change anything? Probably not. Would 50, 100, 200, or 300+ visits change things: I think so. The fact that he would have great difficulty creating enough time to personally see all the pilots requesting meetings would send a very clear message in itself, would it not?

Just food for thought.......

Happy (insert occasion here) to all!!!

CTOAN

[Believe Brother]

CTOAN, agree totally. I still am optimistic about TCAS. I believe his biggest handbrake is AAR, but I think that fool will get his dues one way or another. Look what happened to the previous two holders of his position :ok:
Speedy, good luck tomorrow. I'm not sure just where that meeting will go, but remember, if you are in a position to voice concern, stay calm and logical. That way, the managers can't walk away mumbling about whinging pilots. :)

[ratpoison]

Speed Alt,

What a pathetic use of the english language. If you cant state anything without taking the total piss out of the people reading it by your deliberate, pathetic spelling and your "oh, english is not my first language" crap, then please dont bother. Your postings are just intangible ramblings and garbage.

[SPEED ALT*]

ratpoison
Everybody can post what they like and if my posts as you say are no good then next time you can skip them and save your self the hassle of checking on my spelling!!!


BB
I wish i can attend tomorrows meeting but i'm not a U.A.E national. But 27th is the date then:cool:

[SecurID]

Go to the meeting, as Dissapointed said, the food is really quite good.

Ratpoison, lay off the insults old chap, let's have a cohesive voice for once!

Someone mentioned writing to the big bosses. Does anyone know the Chirman's email address? We could get the letter written between us and if the goods do not appear on the 27th we could send it off from us all. It would mean someone writing it and everyone agreeing to send it to him, worth a try I guess?

[sanddancer]

We could perhaps begin any collective letter with a statement of our collective aversion to racial discrimination of any sort - as, if I receive less than someone else (equally qualified) doing the same job on the basis of my race or background - then I am being discriminated against.

Discuss.....!:ugh:

[SPEED ALT*]

SecurID
i totally agree with you i'll call DNATA head office on 04 2951111 and ask to speak to Sheikh Ahmed's secretary. i should get through and she should give me an email address as Dissapointed says if this happens i'll let you all know then we could write all or points and send it to him then he could get a better pic of whats happening and sort it out . Take it easy

[millerscourt]

SPEED ALT* ***

I wish to commend you on the almost miraculous overnight improvement in your written English. I award you three extra stars :ok: Take it easy

[ratpoison]

Millerscourt,

My thoughts exactly my friend.

[Payscale]

Dont think Speed Dude is an EK pilot...maybe a EK pilots youngest son..naahh..not even..:} Waste of time anyway. Anyone hearing the latest info on the National meeting, please spread the good news.

Payscale:cool:

[MR8]

I just read a reply from EZGOwhateverisyournameagain... and now your post disappeared.. was it wrong or did your source ask you to delete it or what happened??? :confused:

[SPEED ALT*]

local meeting just end up like the last one MR ENGR ask every one to say what they want then he said nothing is going is change :sad: take it or leave it!!!!!! funny thing not lots of the local pilots attended the meeting anyway.

Payscale dude you stay cool and mature!! and thanks for thinking that i'm 10 it's great feeling i have now.

ratpoison I cann't believe you're still reading what i write isn't pathetic eng for you or you got nothing better to do but check on my spelling:ok: thanks anyway for doing that;) :

[EZGOEK330FO]

MR8 I did not delete it, I do not know where it went, but here it goes again...
Bad meeting, lots of name calling and eventualy pilots walking out. The bottom line was , no 15% increase as promissed by the UAE government, and widely rumoured, as we are not a government business, and we are already making "too much money".... We will get the 3% and because Emirates is the airline of choice we will be given another 2% topup. We are lucky to have a job in these difficult conditions, if we do not like it, the doors are open, the airline is still receiving lots of applications daily from pilots and we made over 1 billion US$ profit. Profit share not discussed as by this time things had gotten out of hand. Most of the local pilots called it a waste of time, and some said they would take it up with the Shake. My guy says nothing will come of this unfortunately, as it seems that Al Redha is not acting on his own on this. If Emirates top management realy wanted to give us the 15%, they could do it, bypassing everyone below them as it is a government backed pay increase, and nothing to do with the Shake's graciousness, nor management's view on pilot pay.
We all have to wake up and realize that things will not improve, nor will we be given the inflation adjustment that most of the expats working in the UAE will be given, not now not ever. The future is for Asian pilots to replace those of us who do not like the T&Cs and decide to seek greener pastures, and to crew the mass ammount of aircraft coming....
On the other hand there is no short supply of pilots internaly seeking to fill every position advertised for, nor do they have any problem finding pilots working their days off to cover the roster....
With this type of behaviour on our part, happy to pick up any bone thrown towards, I also do not see an improvement in our T&Cs nor do I see management giving us any respect.....
After two dissapointing years waiting for a pay increase, one last year, and now this year I think that it is written on the wall, the future of our T&Cs is erosion, and the 3% is the way forward....
Keep Discovering.....

[CptKavla]

Where is Check six when you need him,
to get some credible info....
See you Boet

[guybrush]

CTOAN,
Good idea, but not in the Middle East, things don't work here as they do in other countries. Don't know about Dubai or EK though.

I do not work for EK or in the UAE, so please forgive my ignorance, but why do expats get 15% and nationals get 25% increase? Is it because expats are paid higher? Would appreciate it if someone would enlighten me!

Cheers:ok:
guybrush

[Believe Brother]

EZ, no real surprises. I suspect you are correct in that AAR is not acting alone. Amazing how EK is a government airline when they want to be, but have nothing to do with the government when it is more convenient for them.

guybrush, those were the salary increases the UAE government in AD decreed for government workers, and recommended for other businesses in the UAE. Rents have already increased in response. Witness the latest group of pilots given 2 weeks notice to leave their housing as EK won't pay the rent increase on their villas.

[rumblytumblypoo]

Well the answer for me is simple. Good Morning, Good Afternoon, Good Evening and just in case I dont see you Adel, Goodnight, you shalt receive my resignation by fax from the aircraft if thats what you want to tell me on the 27th.

[Eurydice]

".......but why do expats get 15% and nationals get 25% increase?"

It's called RACIAL DISCRIMINATION. :mad: :mad:

[ekpilot]

But we haven't got anything, so what are you worried about?

[BBJ King]

Well, boys
Just as expected. Difficult times... high fuel prices.. yada yada
Just face it. The big pay increase will never come to EK.

What to do now.
Be professional and polite as always.
Don't work on days off. Don't fly into discretion. If you are sick or tired, don't go to work. They need instructors, don't apply.

And of course. As always bitch and moan

For you guys who would like to work for these people. Please do. But ask questions during your interview. (accomodation, promotion to capt etc):cool:

And for the 15/24 %. Get used to it. That's the way it works. Wait until you get hit by a Landcruiser from behind and it's your fault.

[quarefellah]

I have to wonder how we ever got here and how we can make things better? Having seen TCAS in action at close quarters recently, he is NOT our saviour. His was a performance reminiscent of a the Smiling Assassin and boy was he defensive.

So BBJ King has made some suggestions which I am already implementing until such time as I can extricate myself from this mess. Whilst I consider their attitude to expats patronising, that exhibited towards the locals (as evidenced by the latest meeting report) is downright arrogant. These pilots are here for the long run. Have 5 left to go to EY? If so, the writing is on the wall for the rest of us. EK has had its time, EY is next and for anyone intending on staying in the pit (I amn't) this might be a good time to change horses.

[maddog62]

Hi everybody,

any of you guys noticed if the amount shown as your limit in that little window on the top right of the Trips portal (the page showing the status of your tickets) increased overnight by about 20%?

The amount displayed in that window used to be equal to my salary (about 18,000 AED) and now (I noticed it a couple of days ago) shows 21,852 AED........:confused: :confused: :confused:

mad

[SecurID]

Yep, mine now shows Dhs36171 :confused:

[Zomp]

keep dreaming, mine always showed 36.000

[guybrush]

Believe Brother, thanks for your reply, although my question was why do expats get a lower increase (15%) as opposed to nationals getting 25%.

ekpilot, the less you have the more attached you become to it:sad:.

Oh well, for you who love flying you could always be grateful you got the job you want/love and for those who don't you can always be grateful that you have a job at these times (as opposed to me for instance... oh wait, I still didn't graduate :} :} :hmm: ).

Cheer up everyone :D ;)
guybrush

[LHR Rain]

I was hoping that the increase on the TRIPS page was a precursor to a pay raise but after the locals meeting went the way it did I should pull my head out of my ass and realize that nothing is EVER going to change here in the sand. With my amount now about 25,871 that would be about a 22% pay raise for me and I actually got exicted last night that conditions would improve. I am a dumb ass. I need to put out the applications and start looking around. EK is just so arrogrant. This use to be a very good job (and still is for the 3rd world) but with Europe paying more and more now that is the place to be. We will always be treated no bettter that an Indian to mangement and it is time we start going to greener pastures. I have had it.

[Backwater]

LHR Rain. I have a rule for myself which I try to stick to. "Never post after consuming one too many red wines!" I appreciate the sentiment but don't get mad, get even.
Enjoy your hangover buddy!!
UAE

[ratpoison]

Oh dear Lads, the DDS amount on Trips has nothing to do with your salary. It's just the limit of how much you can book up when applying for tickets. Obviously one cannot get on trips and book up 50,000 dhs of tickets. There is a limit, and it is your current salary plus whatever. Looks like 25% above and beyond that you can book up. Dont make the mistake and think that is now your NEW SALARY. It aint and far from it. !!!!!

[soompak]

No one (UAE national included) should expect any special government salary increase as EK group is not a government department.

Only hope that good news come out on 27th April Chairman's briefing.

[cnsnz]

EZGO
Was the actual profit announced as $1 billion USD?
Or was it a rumour ?
Thought the announcement was not due till the 27th

[Trashed Aviator]

If its not a government airline then whose is it , you would think the government would be proud to own such an airline, obviously they dont care about it , just like most of the staff in it.....

[turtleneck]

DEFINITION OF RACISM
Any attitude, action or institutional structure which systematically treats an individual or group of individuals differently because of their race. Racism may be expressed individually and consciously, through explicit thoughts, feelings, or acts, or socially and unconsciously, through institutions that promote inequality between races.

the outcome of the meeting with local pilots appeared to be pathetic and reflects the abysmal human quality of EK managers. one thing however shines out positively: they're not racists, they treat all employees the same despicable way.

[Shake]

I believe that it was the Sheikh himself that supported the 15-25% pay increases in Dubai for government employees...

So when it comes to his own company it is a case of do as I say, NOT as I do.

[BigGeordie]

As far as trips goes, we are paying for seats on our own airline which would otherwise be empty. While I accept that staff travel is a privlidge not a right, it is in the company's own interest to let us spend as much as possible on trips. After all, it is not as if we can refuse to pay when the bill comes in- the money comes out of our pay before we get it!

[Check 'Six']

Okay folks.

Go down to your local Emaar Petrol station and peruse through a copy of the "arabian business" magazine. You cannot miss this particular issue because our Chairman is on the cover. Emirates as a group is considering an IPO. To raise money for more aircraft, basically. And I qoute:

"H.H Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum said proposals for an initial public offering(IPO) had already been submitted to the Dubai Government, which owns the airline.

"We have one new aircraft coming every month for the next five to six years and that takes a lot of financing. Whether we do an IPO is a decision for the government. We are always thinking about it but we haven't taken a firm decision. It's something we have looked at but I am waiting for the owner to make any final decision," he added. End Quote.

Check Six

[RINGAdingding]

Well thats it then if EMIRATES wants to raise capital by floating the company WE CAN DEFINATELY forget ANY decent kind of pay rises from this company FOREVER!!!! WE will be forever fighting for what we have! The CEO and his board will be looking for higher profits.bonuses and incentives and the shareholders welfare F :mad: :mad: K.....

Its all starting to make sense at last!!!


I wonder if they will offer the pilots an attractive options deal!!!!

Hahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahaha hahahahaahhhhhhhhhhahhaahhahahahahahaah!! jeez i crack myself up what was i thinking!!!?????????