Jetsgo Pilots in Bahrain for GF interviews

[PayRaisePlease]

To the Jetsgo pilots now in Bahrain for interviews: Please leave your prostitute-like manners (30K) in Canada. We dont want to be infected with your disease in the Gulf. Pilots enjoy some respect from the employers and we have been getting some kind of increase in income lately. We r having decent lives here, work a little bit hard but we get rewarded. The way you all bent and lower your panties in front of Michel Leblanc is disgusting and a shame for the world pilot community. It was a great demonstration of lack of respect for yourselves, the pilot career and your fellow pilots around the world.

It is time to act like men and demand some respect and reward for the job you do.

[Left Coaster]

Shame you say? I say shame on you for the tone of your post! You may not agree with what SOME of the Jetsgo pilot did to find work, but DO NOT tarnish them all with the same brush. Keep your inflammatory rhetoric off of this site. You are welcome to your opinions as always but remember the old saying:
It is better to keep one's mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot, than to open it up and prove it....
I have never seen such drivel
LC:*

[AAIGUY]

ALL Jetsgo pilots paid Leblanc. They are ALL whores.

[Safety Guy]

Agreed, what a load of drivel. Be careful AAIGUY, as you have friends and neighbours who've done the same. While I agree that no pilot should have to pay to get a job, Jetsgo pilots were hardly the first to do so. In fact, it seems to me that this concept was first hatched on the other side of the Atlantic, at companies like Easyjet, Ryanair and many others. Are pilots from those companies being told they're not welcome at Gulf Air as well?

[Sabastienl]

Such a sad thing......! no body wants them GF takes them! most
of them have earned their reputation in the canadian aviation
industry so well.............no airline would give them a JOB, and
that's why they ended up flying for JETSGO and paying for their
rating! EVERY PILOT WORKED FOR JETSGO PAID ..PAID FOR
THEIR RATING.....!


:yuk:

[lgw]

Can you explain to me what Jetsgo pilots did that is different than pilots with companies like Virgin, Easyjet, Ryanair... etc.

[zorx]

Pilot and pay.What about strong unions?Why not get back to a situation where employers hire out of a union pool and toss this dis-organized pimping crap in the garbage like the rest of the loser organizations in the 20th century.
I would have a national union and as soon as you get you lisence you join,somthing like that
Paying for a rating.Well if you wanna work well best go see mom and dad eh?The rst of you poor folks can go flip burgers.:ok:

[bcflyer]

So what is the starting pay at Gulf Air? How many hours a month are you blocked to?

[Inuksuk]

The poor guys at Jetsgo were spun a line about getting the cash back on a pre-determined repayment schedule , and being surrounded by on-message managers, they would have had no idea that the end would come so suddenly. Probably had a sniff that something was up mind you.

Given the general state of getting hired in these parts, and with a promise of building hours, and getting the $ back with interest (agreed repayment schedules) what would you do ? Go toss burgers in McDs, or in Gulf land, kebobs, or do what you love ?

By the way, what's the story on the Gulf Air 151 incident @ BKK ?

[Fly Through]

Geesh there are some bitter people around these parts!!
Paying or being bonded for your rating is fairly common in the rest of the world and generally it's a damn site better paid than this side of the atlantic. Just feel for the poor guys out of pocket and work, good luck in the gulf all who try, I say.

[Inuksuk]

Well spoken Flythrough.

Here's to all of our brethern who were on the Jetsgo F100s and MD83s re-joining us in the sky sooner rather than later...

[Quebecer]

Well, mister payraiseplease (and I use the term loosely) i would like to announce that the 4 ex-Jetsgo pilots that had interviews with Gulfair last week all have the job and are now on course as we speak.

Am i making your day now?

Cheers dude. :ok:

[sajko]

PayRaisePlease you stupid ****. You should know that people are trying their best to get their jobs without paying for it but sometimes they are left no choice, sometimes the only way to get it is to pay for it. I'm happy for all those guys who made it and wish you all guys to make it to Gulf air.

[grippen]

To a jackass also known as PayRaisePlease: for your information Jetsgo pilots are not only being hired by as you call it "goof air" but also by China Airlines, EVA, Cathay, Air Canada, Skyservice, WestJet, Zoom, contract work in Europe. If you like I can keep going but don't wanna overload your pea brain. Now crawl back into your hole and keep quiet for a while.

[Left Coaster]

Have a look at the Middle East Forum for the answer to your questions, BKK GF 151 is currently under investigation and as GF is keeping the crews as up to date as possible, no comment on it should come out until the facts are in...
As far as pay goes I would think that a search would help, but look at this, GF pilots have had a 16% increase inside two years, and more is on the way...although allowances haven't kept up with the rapid increases in school fees and rent that is seemingly part of the Middle East's (not only in the Gulf) rush for the spoils.
:{

[Ontariotech]

I do not fly for jetsGo, never knew anybody at jetsgo and I have never even been on one of their aircraft. But I have worked in Canada for a many number of years and know a great deal of aircrew who have flown around the world.

But this Payraiseplease guy:confused:

Get a F:mad: ing Grip and flush out your headgear.

Sorry, but our pilot's here in the north were not born with a golden spoon up their butt's (yours seems to be a golden pickle). And for the most part, work the sweat and tears route, pay a hefty sum for flight training from a C172 up to turbine time.

SO, before you slag off a Canadian Pilot with better flight training than you will proably ever see in your neck of the sandy woods, why not come up here to the great white north and shoot some ILS approach's too minumums on a snow covered runway, when it's -30 celcius for 5 months of the year.

Or would the sand between your ears get too cold for you to think straight.

:mad:

[cplpilot]

Do you think that flying in -30 will help you to find a job in the middle east? I don't think Canadian pilot are better than anyone, probably in winter condition are at the SAME level than pilot from Finland, Sweden, Iceland, Scotland, Alaska, Russia, etc...) So, don't be cocky and rude i guess people here want to exchange opinions right?

[Ontariotech]

cplpilot,

No, I don't think flying in -30 degrees helps you find a job in the middle east, and who said it did?

I'll put a Canadian pilot's training, expertise, and background against any pilot worldwide, including the countries you mentioned. The flying in adverse weather 5 months out of the year adds to that experiance. And a pilot from the middle east, who occasionally does sectors to northern Europe, may.....may encounter icing and snow. Our Canadian Brothers who are called prositute like, and whores merely for doing what they need to do to put food on the table for a job is RUDE and ARROGANT. Obviously there is no place for UNPROFFESIONAL People like Payraiseplease. And obviously you have not recognized who on this thread is being rude.

So before you quip who is rude or not, read what people post instead of just skimming over it, and letting the Knee jerk reaction come over you and post' something that really was not even said or implied.

Your obviously not British are you? If you were, maybe you would recognize what rude is.



:mad: :mad: :mad:

[mig21bis]

When you fly over FL350 you are at less than -30 C in the south or in the north. Weather dont make pilots, training makes good pilots, canadians are good pilots, not because of weather, because of training standards. Doing a Cat III landing in heathrow is not one of god misteries, just press the right botton and the aircraft will do it for you, even an ape can do it. Emirates do it all the time and they dont crash because a hot weather pilot or cold weather pilot operates the plane.

[Ontariotech]

I give up.

I just completely give up on some of you.

If you don't get the point by now, you never will.

Bye. :ok:

[STC]

You should know that people are trying their best to get their jobs without paying for it but sometimes they are left no choice, sometimes the only way to get it is to pay for it.

This is incorrect. Mr. LeBlanc dangled the carrot and it should have been refused. The only reason it worked is because there were pilots who were willing to prostitute themsleves and risk devaluating the entire industry.

The Jetsgo pilots should have taken the high road and sent LeBlanc a clear message that his hiring practices were unacceptable. Instead, they paved the way for others to try the same thing.

Those Jetsgo pilots that lost money deserved it, and hopefully have learned an important lesson.

[Fly Through]

oh yeh can't you just feel the compassion from STC? How typically Canadian.

[STC]

oh yeh can't you just feel the compassion from STC? How typically Canadian.

Typically Canadian? Someone sounds bitter....

However, I feel no compassion for people who get burned by participating in a practice that devaluates wages in this industry.

Perhaps these ex-Jetsgo Einsteins should have shown some consideration for other pilots before expecting any "compassion" once they found themselves pushed to the curb.

[MarkD]

I see Ont.tech's point - it's kinda similar to the view of ex-Soviet/Aeroflot pilots who could land a plane in all weathers (and probably drunk) because the equipment they flew demanded they be on top of their game.

That said, the loss of the GF A320 and the recent JAL discussion shows that technology is causing CRM to far surpass flying proficiency as the area of primary concern on a flight deck.

[FighterJock]

Here's an idea for all you :mad: :mad: washout's that like to bash Jetsgo pilot's !!! Why don't you stop hidding behind a computer and tell a Jetsgo pilot yourself how you feel, I'am sure you all know one or will meet one in the future. And see how long it takes for your face to hit the ground:\ . Please do your self a favour and keep the whore talk to your wifes/girlfriends and don't point the finger at others. Your not happy with your own Jobs and lives so you need to put others down...:yuk:

[brucelee]

Pilots buying a ppc is only a small part of the problem. The bigger problem is what happens once you're in one of these low cost bordellos. These same pilots are subjected to working 100 to 120 hrs a month, lousy working conditions beyond what they expected. With the exception of Southwest, the pay is usually well below what it shoukd be and very little chance of bettering it because of the lack of a union. The Walmartization of our industry, better known as Westjet, Canjet, Jetsgo and the rest, have deteriorated this profession. Things might be better at one over the other, but not by much. That is a fact wether you agree or not. It's a simple fact of life. I don't have a problem with these operations. I have a problem with the pilots accepting these terms of employment indefinitely. Allowing a pompus bast**d like Clive Bedoe to become even more arrogant on the backs of the pilots is hard to accept as a professional. And he's not the only one. The arrogance of R. Milton is just as bad, but at least he has to face a pilot's union at AC who has achieved a better lifestyle for its members- all-be-it not what it used to be, thanks in part to the Walmartization of our industry. So, should we come down so hard only on the Jetsgo gang? I think not.

[FighterJock]

Well said Brucelee. It's the truth!!

[c150driver]

Easy speech to make when you are working at AC...

[PayRaisePlease]

FighterJock, you insulted my intelligence and my wife. Check your PM for my contact number. Lets see who's hidding behind a computer now.

[brucelee]

" Easy speech to make when you are working at AC..."



c150.

Unions are not exclusive to AC. It isn't difficult to get organized with a union. It's apparant though that many pilots are perhaps brainwashed in their company that they don't need a union and that life is good anyway. Maybe life is good. I don't know what their idea of "good" is or what yours is. I can tell you that with a union, you're always a step up. Not that it's always a perfect arrangement but at least better. Better lifestyles and proffessional integrity are not achieved by hoping management will take care of you. Simply having a so called pilot group is not a strong enough voice. Organized labour is always stronger at achieving the goals of its membership.

[FighterJock]

That's hillarious "PayRaisePlease". I don't even work for Jetsgo, and I'am not living in the sandbox !! But I used to bomb it from FL300. Think before you speak and maybe you'll get some respect on this forum.

[cplpilot]

Holy cow!!! sound like a hockey match. Who is Tie Domi? ;)

[brucelee]

I'm putting my $ on the jetjock:ok:

If he can hit a sandbox from fl300, well what can I say...

[Inuksuk]

This Jetsgo pilot bashing needs to stop. The fact someone started a thead about "prostitution" needs to grow up - and quickly.

Also, this forum has been around the whole bonding story time and time again - and it is no longer a rare (sadly) requirement, with outfits across the expanse applying bonds (Virgin, Easy to name two).

Here in the Maple Leaf, two years set salary is the trade for the bond, and not a great hit to the company balance sheet if a pilot is daft enough to leave after having got the type rating and building seniority.

As for those who think we have it set in Air Canada, look at the reduction of salaries, pensions etc. which would have been even worse if we didn't have a union fighting our corner. Brucelee has hit it right on the nail - effective collective bargaining power through a union - whether CALPA or ACPA - or whatever, will help prevent further degradation of the professional standing pilots have earned - and deserve.

As an aside, knowing how difficult it is to get a break into Canadian commerical aviation, I think it beggars belief some have the audacity to criticise those, with flying in their blood, seeing an opportunity to build turbine time, participating in a bond scheme, with the promise of repayment with interest. If in the same situation, I probably would've done the same.

So, time to move on. I think the ex-Jetsgo guys and gals have suffered enough without a pompous kangaroo court being convened. Let's just wish them luck, and hope they'll get into the skies soon, wherever that maybe.

[brucelee]

Well said Inuk. I suspect that in the end the Jetsgo gang will have the last laugh as they are now marketable for some of the best jobs in the world. I suspect we will see some at AC in the next round of hiring. What do ya think of this bid that just came out? Good to see all the furloughs back.:ok:

[c150driver]

Bonds I can understand....but coming up with the money up front is ridiculous, especially when some of the Jetsgo guys already had good jobs, but just wanted "jet time".....

[brucelee]

c150.

Refusing to pay for the checkout is quite an honourable thing to do. But let me ask you, do you think working your ass off for peanuts at any other lowcost is any better for this industry? There seems to be a double standard here. My position is , and you know it well by now, that the lowcost virous has degraded us all. Wether you buy your job or accept slavery is irrelevant. The fact is that if you have flying in your blood you will do what ever it takes, for better or for worse. Eventually the good companies will survive and to some large degree, destiny and lady luck will decide where you retire. Not where you buy your job or accept to assume a comprimizing sexual position and let Clive Bedoe, M. LeBlanc, or Mr. Canjet have their way with you. I guess I should include R. Milton just to make you happy.

[Inuksuk]

Each to their own C150 - the lure of the whine of a turbofan, even an MD83 P+W or F100 Tay is too much for some.

Good news to see the guys back brucelee. Think Jazz have already recalled haven't they ? So, the 170 or so guys who were furloughed are being brought back on - and hopefully in time for a good summer season.

Let's hope that's the last furloughing for a while (is that a word?)

[brucelee]

Inuk. Amen. Furlough should be a forgotten word.
Lots of training going on. Embraer and 767 departments very busy. Next bid, 777. I see the light.:D
Jazz all back to normal and probably be hiring when our RJ fleet begins to migrate to them this summer.
You hear anything more on AC/ USair/America west merger? Mixed feelings on that one.

[Jettt_Settt]

I do understand that this is a place to share our thoughts but pilot bashing needs to stop. I worked for jetsgo. I payed 30 000 CAD and I signed a paper along with Jetsgo representatives saying that they were going to repay me with good interest. As it stand today, I lost nearly 10000$. We, as a pilot group, are trying to go after Jetsgo and ML to get our money back, but I understand it will not be easy and chances are very slim I will get to see the color of it again. However, please, before judging, put your self into perspective. 1 1/2 yrs ago, AC was under bankruptcy law, WJ was running lean, Canjet aswell, Skyservice was not hiring or planing to, Zoom was not even in the picture, Jazz had hundreds of pilots laid off.....etc... I was applying to work overseas but nobody even replied to my job search...I decided to join Jetsgo. Yes it was a gamble but I got to meet some very good pilots. It was a young and dynamic enterprise and a fun place to work. I had the chance to fly a nice MD83 across all North america. People that flew for SG use to fly Embraers 120, BE20, B1900 etc. In order to progress in today's aviation industry, as silly as it is, you need jet time. I figured that my working experience up northern Ontario and Quebec gave me enough but that was not the case. So today, I just got hired on a 747 in asia. What got me this job? the jet time at Jetsgo. In fact, I, as many others, joined Jetsgo to gain more valuable jet time.

Believe me when I say that nobody put the money up front because they wanted to...some use to work for C3, Royal ... some are older and saw in Jetsgo a last chance to fly in Canada. A lot of people believed in SG. I did it for the experience, does that make me a whore? I don't think so...I think I took a chance and I won a little, lost a little...Guys, in Canada, some pilots never realized there was a crisis in aviation, some have been flying a 767 for 25 yrs and will retire with full pension soon. That's not my case.

The Jetsgo guys are professionnal, dedicated and proud. If you decide to threat them like **** when they're in the gulf, well to bad for you because you will miss on a chance to meet decent people...

Jetsgo pilots, please walk with your head high, you deserve it, Don't let people think less of you because you tried to make a living in this industry...

[brucelee]

Jett Sett

Like I said earlier in this thread, you guys will have the last laugh.
I have a buddy from SG who also has an interview out there.
Good luck mate.:D

[Inuksuk]

Well said jettt_settt. Excellent response, and I am sure Safety Guy, brucelee and others are nodding furiously in your defence as well as the other Jetsgo pilots. I hope you'll be able to get Leblanc to cough up,difficult though that may be...

Fantastic news on your 747 hire. Congratulations.

Oh, Payriseplease, are you still reading this, or have you scuttled into a corner with deep embarrassment ?

PS brucelee - 777!! :ok: Only stuff I've heard on the merger news is a snippet from an instructor at the ranch and a piece in the Wall Street journal, not a great deal out there. Apparently, there is a big meeting this week with the business types in all 3 outfits in Montreal...

[c150driver]

Brucelee, some of your comments are typical of the "AirCanada" attitude (unfortunately)...."if you don't work for AC, or don't make comparible wages, you are hurting the industry...".....I think you are out of touch with reality...AC hasn't hired in years and there aren't many alternatives that YOU would approve of. Unfortunately for many of us, when AC starts hiring again, we won't be in a position to accept such a large pay cut from our current salaries.

JettSett...congrats on the job....
Like I said in earlier posts, I can sympatize with out of work pilots who exhausted every option and ended up working at Jetsgo (could happen to any of us...), but what I don't agree with is those pilots who left decent paying jobs (ie, $50,000 flying a B1900) and handed over $30,000 just to get some jet time...that's what hurts this industry.

[cplpilot]

What is hurting the industry is that pilots are treated like slaves, flying became a "reward" no a profession. Keeping the industry like this will bring "amateur" pilots flying... in few years we will have another job plus we will fly weekend and evenings as "reward". What is hurting even more is that aviation should be manage by pilots that stick togheter and treat each other like professionals, now everyone is abandoned to his own fate...:(

[brucelee]

c150

I'm going to try and make this as easy as I can for you to understand. I never suggested that joining AC is right for YOU. In fact it sounds like you shouldn't even apply. My main comment is that the lowcost environment is partly responsible for neglecting guys like you a job at AC given the new starting salary structure. Some have made the move and it cost them $40-60k/yr for a couple of yrs. But they still figured it was the right thing to do. AC may not be the place for everybody anymore. It all depends on personal situations. I would like to see my coleagues at the lowcost carriers make what they deserve, which is more $. That in turn is good for all of us, including you. Get my drift? You say that I don't approve of any other way but the AC way. I suggest you go back and read my threads and you will note I am in full support of the Jetsgo, Westjet and others. I just whant them to earn a more respectable living for what they do.
Nothing personal but, my "attitude" is something you will probably never get to experience. Don't flatter yourself. Wether you like it or not, most of us if not all of us at AC wouldn't give up our jobs for whatever it is you do. Sounds to me like something whent wrong somewhere sometime ago and it's too late for you to fix it eh?

[Saltaire]

Jetsgo people certainly deserve a good break after the house of cards falling down. The industry has been desperate and it was ML taking advantage of guys looking for jet time. Not a proud part of history in Canadian aviation. However, it's looking like the tide is starting to rise again which is great for everyone.

Not sure if working in China will be a move in the right direction.......You might really miss your old job after a year over there, but at least you can move on and keep the ball rolling.

Cheers

[c150driver]

....yeah I guess something went wrong years ago...I wasn't born to an AC pilot...:ugh: ...how are those law suits going against Irene???

I agree that everyone should make more money, but just because some of us don't work at AC, doesn't mean that we "did something wrong", or that we don't like our jobs and are "kicking ourselves" because we screwed up and don't work for the Red Team...more Air Canada arrogance:yuk:

[Rosbif]

I think the whore analogy is correct, but not in the way it was put by payraise. How many whores want to be whores? I imagine that they are in that situation because they have exhausted all possible other options to survive.
That is the point c150 is trying to make.

Being a whore is OK if you have no choice. It even has a certain dignity to it if the intent is to get back on one's feet, or support a family doing the only thing that one is qualified to do. - But how many people leave good jobs to become hookers?

Don't be fooled into thinking that the unions are always on side with ALL the pilots either. The unions are nearly always run by the more senior pilots, and during negotiations when the temptation comes to trade layoffs for better pay and conditions, the senior guys can figure out which side their bread is buttered.

[brucelee]

c150. I'm going to give it one last shot. Go back and read my threads. I infact state that luck has much to do with how your career goes, not just wether you do something wrong or right. Sure, you have to prove yourself as well. AC uses pretty much the same hiring standards as anyone else- nothing special. There's nothing special about an AC pilot. What is special is that being here has certain perks, not to say that they are exclusive to AC but not many other companies in this country enjoy them. The jetsgo pilots may have bought a PPC, but when hiring resumes at AC, they may also have earned their way into a great job.
Not sure what the Irene thing is all about but I think I can guess.
She's gone.
As for you not being born to an AC pilot, that sucks. It may have been your only chance.

[Inuksuk]

Brucelee beat me to it...

This thread started with some :mad: idiot using whore and prostitute analogies to describe Jetsgo pilots doing what they basically had to do to make themselves more marketable. Whoever payriseplease is, let's hope he's more successful in going through the new about to be announced GF CRM classes, rather than posting a thread to command respect from fellow aviators.

C150 - some of those guys and gals, might not have wanted to spend their days flying Beechcrafts for $50k a year, and given the state of the Canadian aviation hiring market of late, what choice did they have ? Go on, tell me, they should have organized themselves into a co-operative before signing on the bright green dotted-line. No-one, I repeat NO-ONE, has the right to criticise another trying to better themselves, and as I have said over and and over again, if I was in their shoes, and had the chance to get jet time, with the offer of repayment with interest, then, I'd have been there at the front of the line....

The tide may be turning in Canada, in terms of it coming out one of the worst downward cycles imaginable, and a wave of hiring will be coming in the next few years.

Air Canada is not for everyone. Like any large organization it has its challenges - but even then, applications and candidiates outstrip vacancies by a huge margin. It's also a good time to get in, with retirals on the way, and with the 777s on the way, as well as rumoured international expansion, a cruise relief job to get the ball rolling would be a great step forward for anyone in my opinion...

So, cutting to the chase, I am sick and tired of potshots at AC, and those who did what they thought they had to seek progression...why can't we all just accept that they did what they had to do to get the jet time that most if not all mainstream carriers need to see in the logbooks ?

Lastly, a bit of a surprize - I wasn't born to an Air Canada pilot, hell, I was even born a Brit - and here I am; timing and merit the 2 best ways to get a job, irrespective of what others might say about quotas...

P.S. It was my opinion that Irene had rotten legs anyway.