Flexwing Advice

[Evil J]

Have been flying Group A for 11 years now and have always been quite attracted to flexwings. So much so that no so long ago I took a trial lesson in a flexwing, and after some nervous few moments at the start really loved it, without doubt the most vivd feeling of flying i have ever had!

My concerns, which I would like the benefit of someone with flexwing time to discuss is as to how often one gets to fly in UK weather? Have heard some people say that in the UK its pretty rare that you can fly a flexwing as any more than 10 knots wind is too hairy; others have said that its really down to your own limits and how much arm wrestling with the bar you think is acceptable?? What is generally acceptable?

The cost of ownership really is pulling me towards flexwings but want to know im gonna get me ar*e in the air regularly to make it worthwhile........

Please discuss....

[Algirdas]

Evil J,
yesterday afternoon at my strip we had a 7kt crosswind, which is a long way from being a problem, and I had a lovely flight in my Thruster TST - I was surprised to see that only one flexwing seemed to be brave enough to fly in what I thought were not difficult conditions at all.
There is no doubt that wobbly wings do seem to either have lower limits or higher skill requirements in crosswinds than a 3 axis microlight, and it does seem to ground these chaps much more often - turbulence is also an issue - a bumpy flight is apparently very hard work.
Have you considered a 3 axis microlight? If cost is an issue, a 3 axis is in the same range as a flex, and if fun is what you seek, there are loads of fun machines - my Thruster is open at the sides and back, and you really do get a great sense of flying, with a fantastic view out.
Being a taildragger, it keeps you on the ball, and its STOL capability is second to none.
A

[Barshifter]

Evil J

Tiss true that some of the older flexwing microlights would struggle in winds of 10 kts and above,only for the fact of having a larger wing surface and smaller power plant than the latest machines.The "quik" flexwing that is very popular nowadays has a much smaller wing and larger engine and is more than capable of speeds above 90mph and is capable of flying in winds higher than the early flexwings.

Chers

Barshifter

[Algirdas]

Barshifter,
The Quik is indeed a performant machine (as well as being a looker) - correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I hear, the skill requirements in the take-off and landing phase esp. if gusty, are even higher than the current crop of other wobblies.
:confused:

[magpienja]

Hi evil j, I do wish people would add there names, anyway I am in a similar position to you but I am not a ppl but have been going flying with a buddy for some time now but just being a passenger is not enough for me I want to get a ppl but group A is just to expensive and I could never afford my own group A aircraft, so I started taking flex wing lessons a few months back really love it finding it much more fun than the PA 28, sorry up to know the wind has been light most times apart from yesterday about 12knts and we had no probs in the blade, anyway just in case you dont know about it the BMAA have a forum just for microlights at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microlights/ if you dont get your answers here give that a try you will get many answers I would think.

Nick.

[Genghis the Engineer]

If you want impartial, I fly a flexwing and a PA28.

In general, there are more days I could fly the flexwing - although the wind limits are lower, when you run at the world at 45 knots, you can accept much poorer visibility safely than you can at 100kn+. Basically, I'd be happy flying cross-country in borderline VFR in the flexwing, when I'd not even contemplate it at PA28 speeds.

Wind limits, I think the advice you've been given is spot on. I can, and have, operated the flexwing in 12kn X-wind and 25kn total(which would be about my PA28 personal limits), but it's absolutely no fun and my arms ached for days afterwards. Sensible limits at around 15kn total and 8kn X-wind.

To put that in perspective, I've about 100hrs in the PA28 specifically, and about 200hrs in my flexwing (and I should admit, quite a lot of hours in other stuff too).

With regard to piloting skill, I don't think there's a lot between an old aircraft like the XL and a newer machine like the Quik or iXess; newer aircraft (the Quik especially) to be be flown more like the PA28 by which I mean precise speed control, less reliance upon "it feels right" alone and more need for take-off and landing performance calcs.

Other things - safety like any other light aircraft is primarily pilot generated, they are as safe or dangerous as YOU make them. Cross country flying is a rather different beast, great fun but with a lot more re-planning en-route, a lot less ability to have lots of paper in front of you, and very different wind and turbulence limitations.

Finally, join the BMAA - you'll need to sooner or later, so do it sooner and you'll have the benefit of the magazine, HQ assistance, and so-on.

And finally finally, go to the show at Popham at the end of this month.

G

[Algirdas]

As always, Genghis gives the definitive answer!
One thing that has not been mentioned is the great camaraderie amongst the microlighters - generally a very down to earth, helpful, fun bunch, and this certainly enhances the experience of being a micro pilot.
It is also true that flexwing pilots seem to be very committed to it - so there must be something in it (I've never set foot in one).

Popham 30th April/1st May is THE place to
meet people, learn lots, see plenty of interesting kit both at the supplier displays and the hoards that fly in (both flexwing and 3 axis).
And the yahoo microlight group is an excellent forum for micro-specific questions. (That & Genghis!)
A

[bar shaker]

Evil J

In the past 24 months, I have flown 192 hours in flexwing microlights. I have flown less than 10 in PA28/152 metal, in the same period. 100 hours flexwing flying costs £2200 including insurance, hangarage, fuel and maintenance.

Whilst I would disagree that the Quik handles turbulence any better than the older machines, its smaller wing makes it much easier to handle on the ground, with a strong wind. Flexwings are prone to getting blown over in winds over 20kts, due to the high wing and light weight.

I flew yesterday, in a 20 year old flexwing, in 20kts of wind (surface) and that was about as much as I would ever fly in. In turbulence you will fight the controls at first, but soon learn to keep a light touch and go with it. No different to any other flying really, but you do feel very connected to a flexwing as your weight transfer is what causes it to change direction/attitude. Because of the delta wing shape, flexwings are remarkably stable and self righting.

Even Aerbabe was up in a flexwing on Saturday
:)

[Barshifter]

Algirdas/Evil J


Ghengis as usual is there with the stuff you need to know!If the Quik is out of your budjet(it is for me) you could have a look
on the classifieds where you will see a whole plethora of whats about.Me personally I fly the blade,a combination of old and knew ie a bit of speed with "easier" landing characteristics.

Cheers

Barshifter

http://www.afors.co.uk

[Jucky]

Flying a flexwing in rougher conditions has a lot to do with pilot skill and what you are comfortable flying in. The more modern machines such as the Quantum, Blade, & Quik certainly have very good crosswind capability. I have seen a Quantum landed in a 25Kt/90deg crosswind with no problems at all, when Cessnas were going around.

[Evil J]

Thank you all for the excellent answers.

The cost of operation is really the draw, as bar shaker amply demonstrates...cant see any point buying a plane if you cant afford to fly it!!

But I must admit that the cameraderee does seem very good among microlighters, keep trying to get to Spamfield to experience it first hand but work keeps getting in the way!!

Anyone know when it is this year??

[bar shaker]

Spamfield is not confirmed yet but the provisional dates are 24th-26th June. These are being firmed up this week.

Its a great event, the best one of the year. Last year was crap weather and still over 200 microlights flew in. The year before, in good weather, they had over 400.

There's a list of events at BMAA website (http://www.bmaa.org/events.asp)

[AerBabe]

Bar Shaker Even Aerbabe was up in a flexwing on Saturday What do you mean "even AerBabe"? I've always wanted to fly flexwings. It's just that I never seem to be in the right place at the right time. It may have looked like I've been trying to get out of it... but that's not the case at all.



Honest. :O



BTW, interesting departure from LC on Sunday. :ooh:

[magpienja]

Genghis interresting stuff as a matter of interest what model flex do you fly.

Nick.

[Genghis the Engineer]

A Raven with a Rotax 503, cheap, old, and fun.

G

[shortstripper]

I bought a simple flexwing a couple of years ago but couldn't find any local instructor. I made the daft decision to teach myself and whilst I had a lot of fun, and flew around the farm ok, a couple of rather heavy landings made me decide to sell before I killed myself :\

One day I'll get some proper tuition and get another one. the whole excersise cost nothing ... but could have been a whole lot more expensive :uhoh: Such machines often sell for less than £1000 and (if you know how to fly them) represent the cheapest fun available IMHO.

SS

[bar shaker]

BTW, interesting departure from LC on Sunday.

Yes, 20+kts of rotor on climb out does strange things to a flexwing. It wasn't the most pleasant flight I've ever had.

At 2000ft, it was blowing 35-40kts. Thank god it was behind me all the way back to home.:D

[bar shaker]

Evil J

Spamfield is confirmed for the dates I posted.

If you come in something other than a microlight it is normally NOTAMed as microlights only, but a PPR will get you in. Often 30+ in curcuit on the Saturday though, so its for the brave if flying something that can't fly sub 60kts.

Normally 300 to 400+ flying in and with a caravan site next door, camping on site, food trailers and marque with bar and karaoke, Its probably the best flying event in the UK, so hope to meet you there.

bs