View Full Version : NDB procedures at EMA
Does anyone know why these were changed a few months ago.
There used to be a start descent inbound at 5.2 dme from 2000' crossing the ndb circa 1600' down to minima-no problem with that giving us basically a constant descent path,stable approach and less noise!
Now, we are meant to start descent from 2000' at 8.2 dme down to not below 1600' at the beacon(level with lots of power on gear down and lots of noise if 1600' before the beacon(circa 4 dme) and then continue to minima.This means from 4 miles we have approximately one mile to achieve a stable approach, by our target stabalisation altitude.This is not very easy in a jet although fine if flying light aircraft.
Comments anyone?
almost professional
2nd Apr 2005, 09:11
they changed the advisory heights on the sra's too!
not sure but might be something to do with complying with changes to regulations?
Another point.
The LOC/DME still has a descent point of 5.2 DME so that non precision approach does have a nice 3 degree constant approach path, stable and again less noise so more friendly to the locals.
Is there anything on the chart telling you that you HAVE to start at 8.2? Can you not leave it until on a 3deg slope? As long as ATC are aware (for separation from other traffic) I would have thought that would be ok?
No-but I thought if a descent point was marked at a distance you had to start descent at that point not make your own one up, although as you have said I see that would make sense.
Also interesting link www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD199906pdf
which is refering to CFIT but does refer to being better to have a CDA rather than platform altitudes with reference to pilot workload.
bookworm
2nd Apr 2005, 12:15
The intermediate altitudes in an IAP are minimum altitudes. There's no obligation to leave the minimum until you feel it's appropriate.
That said, I don't know what would motivate such a change. You may have more joy on Tech Log.
Evil J
2nd Apr 2005, 14:51
Probably thought up by the same genius that changed our sector safe altitudes a while back based on a ficticious mast near Brum, only for them to be changed back again a year later when we finally convinced them no such obstruction exitsed!!
055166k
2nd Apr 2005, 15:58
Do you think there are too many promulgated procedures? Are they all really necessary?
I think Southampton, for example, has about 12 procedures....exactly how many does one runway need.....a genuine question because I wonder how one would choose!!
Are they just for training or are they used for real?
Evil J
2nd Apr 2005, 16:52
Well at EMA I think they must be for training as, last time I checked we aren't permitted to operate without radar
Sky Pilot
2nd Apr 2005, 17:00
I've just had a look at the plates. There's nothing to say you have to descend at 8.2d, just that you can't descend below 2000' until you're within 8.2d. Personally, at that platform height I'd wait until about 5.4d to descend and that should bring you in on a 3 degree glide, not below 1640' at 4.1, to the MApt. The CAA plates (the only ones I've looked at) talk about a 5.2% gradient inside the NDB which is a 3 degree slope. There's quite a few non precision approaches like this. As long as you don't bust any minimums you can manage your own descent and choose your own descent point. You just have to remember that it's based on your height above the threshold and work back. Hope this helps!