Now, your Captain is smoking during flight

[sideloader]

Next in the saga...;-)

Ok, this one is good as well.

You are flying already and your captain (first tme you fly with him) lights up one. You can't stand the smoke.

What course of action is the best?

Your opinions please :ok:

Thanks and Blue Skies

[BigGeordie]

I assume he didn't ask you if you minded first? Anyway, ask him nicely to put it out, if he doesen't quote the Ops Manual at him, then fill in a confidential human factors report if your airline has such a thing. There are many excellent reasons for smoking being banned on aircraft.

[willfly380]

so which airline interview are you preparing for?post all your questions at one go . it will be more helpful.

[Helli-Gurl]

I thought the majority of airlines operated a non smoking policy...I'd turn the fire exstinguisher loose on him! ;)

x

[Firestorm]

Two things spring to mind.

One: open the check list at the smoke in the cockpit page and ask if he wants you to start the drill.

Two: call him a selfish ? and get your resignation letter ready.

[sideloader]

Willfly380 , I am just learning from others.
That's all sorry to bother you ;-)

Have a great day.

Blue skies.:ok:

[Joe Patroni]

Hi Guys!

It happened to me not long ago, the captain just had a cigarette in cruise without asking.
I was so shocked that I immediately dropped my beer!:} I asked him to open the window a bit, never saw him again :ouch:

Seriously, I would ask him to tell me next time, never had problems with anyone because of that. I think the tone and the timing are important.

The "ehhh...oh yeah, let me tell you how RIGHT I am and wrong you are" or the smart ar*e way is definately wrong. Remember nobody likes to lose his face, so I guess a gentle "hey, you can fly, drink coffee, talk and smoke at once?" makes him laugh and he understands your point. If not, show him the FAT LADY!

Cheers Joe

[Kestrel_909]

There was a rather lengthy thrad similar to this last year from a new FO who wasn't sure what to do.

I remember visiting the FD only a few years ago returning from holidays and the captain lit up infront of me, FO gave him a nice look, don't think he was that keen on it:(

[Rananim]

Back in the old days,skippers used to smoke cigars.Used to light them up just before takeoff.Co-pilot wasnt allowed one but the Captain might give him a takeoff or landing every once in a while.Nowadays...well,pilots are like accountants...all this pc crm bs..I tell ya if I had to choose between a real pilot smoking a nice big Cuban cigar and some pc weasel with the SOP manual stuck up his ass,I know who I'd choose...and no,I dont smoke,gave it up when I got the big C.....thats all folks... see ya

[redsnail]

I just tell them that smoking in an enclosed area triggers my asthma. :E

I was "told" by a captain in my last job that "he liked to smoke in the cockpit". (First time I flew with the guy). I just looked at him and said "no you won't, I don't like it, it's against SOPs and I don't let any of the captains smoke in the cockpit."

He didn't smoke in the cockpit.

[Fbwdude]

Let the captain smoke(his THE captain).
If is not a safety issue the capt can do anything he,she wants.
Management with the help of guys like you are turning capt's in puppets.
I fly in a company where f/a report capt´s for anything.
Tomorrow you won't be able to upgrade to first class your wife,mother, son because you will be afraid of everybody.
Let's not take captainship from the CAPTAIN.
PS: I HATE SMOKING BUT HIS THE ONE.

[LONG_TAF]

Let the :mad: smoke. Eventually you get a faster upgrade:E

[Old Smokey]

In comparing 2 currently running threads, we have a very interesting opportunity to examine pilot's attitudes and priorities.

One thread is for Smoking Captains, and the other is for Drunken Captains.

The first is extremely annoying to some, but hardly dangerous. The other is extremely dangerous.

The 'Annoying' Captains have elicited 11 responses (excluding this one), whilst the 'Dangerous' Captains' have only elicited 8 responses.

Do we have our priorities right?

(You can read anything you like into my call-sign, and you'll probably be wrong)

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Flyrr100]

If he smokes then I'll be sure to eat my wife's five alarm chili the night before!

[jammydonut]

"There are many excellent reasons for smoking being banned on aircraft"

Like - the saving on A/C filters and lack of ashtrays?

You poor brain drained PC by the book bore...live and let live.

[alexban]

I've read some time ago a US safety study that said that is less riskier to allow a smoking pilot to smoke than to forbide him to smoke during flight.
They said the need for smoking can impede with the pilot's abilities to focus during flight.
I'm no smoker,i never smoked,but when i know the f/o is a veteran smoker,and sometimes i see that he realy needs one,i tell them to have a cigarette.It won't kill me,is good crm,we set full ventilation and it's ok. Of course,this is done only at cruise.
And the thing about telling the cpt-'I won't allow you to smoke"..:} , ya,right! Why won't you tell him "you'll be PNF for the rest of the flight,I'm the capt now!"..
If you think is normal to say such a thing,or to report your captain for such a minor thing,...then I would like to see how you'll think when you'll become a captain yourself. :ok: I guess you never was one.
Redsnail,you made me laugh..But maybe you're right,especially if the cockpit is so small as your's plane seems to be (from the pictures on your site).
But ,if you'll tell me you're not allowing me to smoke in the cockpit I'll start smoking just to show you who's the captain ! ;) ...just kidding of course,I won't smoke ,but next time we won't be flying together.(you're bad CRM,making me nervous during flight :D )
I hope there are not many smoking cpt in you company :),or you will soon fly single pilot airplanes....

[FlightDetent]

I decide to smile and stay pleasant, but one of our guys is known for politely asking out to toilet. And return no sooner than in fine minutes. Seems to work and does not destroy the co-operation. Eventually, many of the smokers (and the total percentage is very low, for those who cant wait after flight) started to ask everyone wheather we would perhaps go and have a chat in the forwar galley for 5 minutes.

Fair play on both sides...

FD.

[Old Smokey]

alexban,

You make several extremely good points (as usual). There is a mountain of evidence (just ask any smoker if you want to do your own research) that a well addicted smoker loses focus, mental function, physical co-ordination, and a host of other undesirable attributes occur after 3 to 4 hours without a cigarette. Do we want this in an operating crew member? For me, absolutely not. If my F/O is a smoker I make it well understood that he / she is allowed to smoke as necessary. If I am a passenger and I know that the crew are smokers, I sure as hell hope that they're having a couple of sneaky drags.

None of this is meant as a justification of smoking, it's a filthy dangerous habit, and the correct answer is that aircrew should give up smoking immediately, BUT, if the affected crew member has not yet 'seen the light', there is a genuine safety consideration in allowing this leeway.

I may be old, I may be grumpy, and I might have a lot of bad habits, but INTOLERANCE is not numbered amongst those bad habits.

Now, for those who want to drink and fly, or use drugs and fly, where do I get my queue number for the firing squad?

(As said before, you can read anything you like into my call-sign, and you'll probably be wrong)

Regards,

Old Smokey

[FullWings]

I had this happen to me several times quite a few years ago.

My first line was to politely point out that it was against the rules and that I did not wish to endure it either.

If that didn't work, I would get out of my seat and go down to the back galley, leaving instructions to call me when he had finished and the cockpit was smoke-free. I would do this at any stage of flight.

[SydGirl]

Gosh I love this quote :

"If is not a safety issue the capt can do anything he,she wants."

Ahem, this is the CRM forum!

As per the OP question, it really depends whether the Flight Deck is smoking or non-smoking. If it is permissable for the Flight Crew to smoke in there (are there still airlines out there that allow this?) then basically the other crew have to sit there, shut up and live with it. As much of a filthy, disgusting habit that it is, it is his/her right to smoke in that environment.

HOWEVER if the Flight Deck is non-smoking then the Captain is not abiding by SOPs and then this is an issue. By all means, address the issue to him/her directly before running off to management. Be aware that this direct approach may cause friction between the two of you and you may end up suffering the consequences of "speaking out of school" - however in the interests of good CRM then you must do so, and are perfectly entitled to! Make sure that it is followed up by the appropriate paperwork in order to get the issue addressed and reconciled.

The days of the Captain being this God-like figure are over. S/he is a professional in their field but is also human! Humans make errors in judgements, and a good Captain will recognise this.

Best Wishes
SG
:D

[redsnail]

For those who've had a go at my CRM, you weren't there. There's establishing how a situation will run and there's being overbearing. I respect the former, I don't like the latter.

It is against (that company's) SOPs to smoke in the cockpit. I guess I failed to add that the captains that liked to smoke would excuse themselves and have a smoke in the back. (freight). We had 3 captains that liked to smoke inflight. 2 were very pleasant about it, the one I mentioned earlier simply announced that he would do it in the cockpit against company SOPs.

Who made the better overall captains? The two that took the FOs health considerations into account, as an aside, they had much better CRM and they were better technical operators too. This was a view held by other captains and FOs in the company.

[Laikim Liklik Susu]

Ashtrays? Who needs ashtrays? Empty can of coke is a sufficient receptacle for butts and ash....

NEVER smoked, but most assuredly do NOT prejudice against those that do! The anti-smoking thing has just got so totally out of hand and OUT OF PROPORTION, it is truly bewildering! I think George Orwell was the truest prophet yet, when he wrote 1984. It is so nice for governments to make our decisions for us.

Anyway, back on topic. If someone lights up in the cockpit without a friendly "Do you mind" first, what's the point causing office tension. Best remedy is alluded to elsewhere in this thread - rip a couple of rip-snorter farts out, and soon enough the smoker will not only be overcome by stench, but the real and present danger of an explosive gas environment exists within a confined space... :p

Let them smoke. If you are THAT affected, go for a walk, or grab the oxygen mask and stare intently at them until they laugh themselves stupid and put it out.

PC, that is Politically Correct, people go through life being PC - that's Pathetically Contrite!

[matkat]

At one time I was the ground Engineer with a dubious Icelandic airline I was on the A/C and landed at JNB The Captain(no longer with Us his name ryhmed with Tickles)got His cancer sticks out as He was coming out of the cockpit I pointed out to Him as he was no longer the A/C Commander that I did not want him to light-up as the A/C was now My responsibility,He acted like the Gentleman He always was and put them away.
A class act,He is and always will be a very much missed Friend
R.I.P. Richard.
DM

[cjam]

G'day, I dont smoke but like some others here dont hold it against those that do. I do however think that smokers should make every effort not to smoke in confined spaces that they share with non smokers. A good friend of mine just chews nicorette when on long haul and says that after a little while getting used to it it got rid of the cravings etc. Go the nicorette.

[Finman]

Ignore all the smoking tolerant clap-trap spouted by the various contributors. Secondary smoke is a proven cause of cancer! You are entitled to work in a smoke free environment. Full Stop.

Sadly the great majority of smokers are the most selfish people on the planet. Me Me Me - my right to smoke- blah blah blah. Flight crew who smoke in the cockpit don’t care about the damage they do to co-workers health; they don’t care that the cabin crew, many of which would also like a cigarette but cannot; they don’t care about the many pax who would are also desperate for one but will be arrested if they do light up. These are the same sort of selfish people who sneak off for a fag in the corner of some handy building while the cabin crew clean the cabin and board the pax on a 20 minute turnround - once again denied the opportunity for the fix they also desire. If flight crew cannot operate safely without a fag in their mouth then they should not be flying. What happens on the day they forget their matches? Forced to stay airborne without their fix, if they become incapable of operating to normal efficiency do they really belong in a cockpit? Nothing but BS.

Start by telling your captain that you would prefer him not to smoke in the cockpit. If he ignores your request, then he is not a fit person to be operating with. On a multi sector day, tell him you will be offloading yourself at the next possible opportunity (eg at home base where a replacement can be brought it). He will soon work out that any subsequent disruption in the schedule will be down to him for contravening SOPs.. .. If it is not a multi-sector day and that is not an option, you are left with only the threat to report him to the management. I say again, you are entitled to work in a smoke free environment! Be gentle and polite but escalate as necessary to achieve the desired result.

[Piltdown Man]

Choose the simple way out. If you don't want your captain to smoke, I'd suggest that you say "I'd prefer it if you didn't". If he then does, depending on the sort of outfit you work for, think about the sort of action you wish to take. I'd suggest that you are working for a small airline and your position in the pecking order is low - so do you want to piss on your own chips? If that is OK, then dob him in, but don't expect a pat on the back. The world isn't fair! Working for a big outfit, go for it. You might never have to fly with him again. Either way, inform your union when you start throwing rocks in the pond. (I hope you are a member). Either way, think carefully about the action you take after a smoking flight - some previous posts from children are not offering good advice.

As an asside, one of my colleagues left the flight deck when his captain lit up and told him to ring the call bell when he had finished.

[bazzaman96]

I am very surprised that so many people have suggested it acceptable that the captains are allowed to smoke. Apart from being unpleasant for the first officer who has to sit in a crowded space with the horrible smell, surely it is a fire hazard too? What if something occurs which requires the captain to take control of the aircraft and perform an immediate maneuvere? It's no good if he's got a cigarette in his mouth and doesn't have time to put it out!

From a passenger's perspective I would feel very disappointed if my pilot began smoking in flight - I do not smoke, but if the airlines are going to take such a safety-conscious line regarding what passengers can/cannot do it seems hypocritical for the pilot to do otherwise.

I have no problem with people smoking in general, but I would hate to work alongside someone who smokes in flight - it's against most (all?) airline rules and isn't professional.

Interestingly, are there smoke detectors in modern cabin environments?

[nojh]

I as an ex Emb110 Cpt 3000hrs and an ex Fk27 Sfo 2000hrs, I have seen the world from both seats.

First Jet job B737/300,Cardif to larnaca Cyprus, first line tng sector passing Flt level 100 Cpt requests "10000 feet checks,which I performed from the Qrh. I said checks completed
Cpt stated "Not quite young Sir" and pulled his pipe out and his bag of baccy,and proceeded to construct his mini bonfire,forget the smell you could barely see the flt director throught the smoke ,it made me cough ,and he said ,I wont complain about your farting if you dont complain about my smoking.I laughed and pulled out the Bensons and asked if it was allright,Fill your boots fill your boots young sir. Cpt was ex army air corps and ex BA with millions of hours.

Later at Boeing Seattle I asked about smoking on the flt deck and was told no problem, with both packs on HI and the recirc fan on the cockpit air is recycled very quickly and the smoke disappears.

The problem with smoking in an A/C is the tar and nicotine clog up the air con system which then requires more maintenance and hence costs money GOD forbid spend money on maintenance,bean counters fall about in apopleptic fits. So the lords and sirs who run airlines banned it.

Ref Rananim youve got the right attitude you will do well as for the model helicopter driver from NZ if you turned the fire extiguisher on me as a Cpt, I would hit you on the head with the fire axe and on landing have you charged with endangering the safety of MY AIRCRAFT,not yours F/O mine I had to sign for it !

[Rwy in Sight]

I think the main issue about smoking is the heavy smell and the suffocation caused by cigarette smoking...

I think (from a ground based but aviation related experience) the idea is to use all means at your disposal to eliminate the unplesant effects for the non-smoker. The ventilation comes to my mind.

However the main issue is how do you like the other guy and how well do you interact? If the guy asks and puts the fans on high I guess it is ok!

Now if he persists smoking against SOP running the smoke in the FD drill or take a short break in the galley seems reasonable to me.

Rwy in Sight

[Xeque]

What is all this b***sh*t??

The fare paying passengers - the ones who pay the aircrew salaries - are no longer allowed to smoke. Why the hell should the crew be allowed to do so?

[Blip]

Here is some light reading for those of you who "don't have a problem with other people smoking" in their presence.

Harmful effects of smoking cigarettes (http://www.quit-smoking-stop.com/harmful-smoking-effects.html)

Harmful chemicals in cigarettes (http://www.quit-smoking-stop.com/harmful-chemicals-in-cigarettes.html)

Ah! You'll love this last one. Here is a list of the 600 tobacco additives permitted in the UK.

OMG. Read this. (http://www.ash.org.uk/html/regulation/html/ukadditivesshort.html)

:uhoh:

[FakePilot]

Would the problem of a crew member needing a smoke be solved by nicotine replacements, i.e. gum or smokeless cigarettes?

[Captain Stable]

It could be, yes. As a long-term smoker, though, I have to warn that much use of nicotine gum can do really, really nasty things to the lining of your stomach. First sign is excess acid. It goes on from there.

[Blip]

G'day Captain Stable.

I don't mean to be smart but...

You can't deny cigarette smoke does just as nasty things to your lungs (and worse) as you claim the gum does to your stomach. Remember how hard you coughed when you had that first drag? That was your natural defences kicking in trying to do it's best to repel that which it considered a threat. It's just that by now, you've beaten your natural defence mechanism into submission.

"Environmental pollutants, such as cigarette smoke, dust, or smog, can also cause a cough. In the case of cigarette smokers, the nicotine present in the smoke paralyzes the hairs (cilia) that regularly flush mucus from the respiratory system."

At least with the gum, you're keeping the nasties to yourself.

Go the patches!!

[Captain Stable]

No denying any of that! Patches never worked for me. But I never smoked on the flightdeck, anyway - I wouldn't inflict that on either a non-smoking F/O, or on the crew taking the aircraft over from me.

Smoke does nasty things to outflow valves and aircon systems as well. Don't smoke on board!

[Old Smokey]

Captain Stable,
Smoke does nasty things to outflow valves and aircon systems as well.
It had a plus side as well. In the smoking era, engineers found it very straight-forward to track down a pressurisation leak by the tar trail downstream of the leak.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[prop jocket]

I have no strong opinions either way on the issue of smoking on the flight deck, but it was a very detrimental day for air safety when it was banned on aircraft.

In my day job as an engineer I found several serious cracks along rows of fasteners just by following the brown stain forwards. These cracks would have been otherwise invisible to the naked eye and were only confirmed by NDT examination. Without the brown stain, I'd have had no reason to look any further.

Air Aloha could have used that technique to find the flaws in their 737 cabriolet if they hadn't embraced the PC requirement for smoke free environments.

As this is the CRM forum, I thought you'd like to hear a quote from a TRI/TRE with a well known UK airline on the subject. For background he was ex RAF, so enough said............

" The problem with CRM is that it makes first officers think they have an opinion ".

Any Left Hand Seaters out there like to comment on that?

[airmen]

I even ask my collegue to read the newspaper during cruise but some don't ask for a cigarette, what a proof of selfich behaviour...
Ask him if next time he could at least know if you don't mind!:E

[judge11]

I am totally gobsmacked that so many contributors to this thread have condoned a captain, and by extension anybody, smoking on the flightdeck. It is selfish in the extreme to impose any unpleasant or anti-social activity upon anybody and if a 'captain' does so then, irrespective of his/her supposed flying abilities, his/her right to respect and trust which is inherent in the status of command must be questionable.

Firstly, tell the offender that you would mind if he/she smoked. If he/she disregarded your request then make it quite clear you will report the captain. If your company SOPs do not allow smoking and you are not supported by your manager if you were to complain then leave. It would be sympomatic of a company of condoning any breach of SOPs. If a captain said 'would you mind if I do a roll off the top at top of climb' you would (I hope - and you are in a passenger carrying aircraft!) say yes - same goes for smoking.

If all else fails, go onto oxygen and send the selfish b....d the dry cleaning bill for your smoke-laden uniform.

[Airbus Girl]

Smokers may believe they have a "human right" to smoke whenever they like, but as a non-smoker I have a "human right" to breathe in clean air, not polluted smoke filled air.

I think it is extremely rude for Captains not to ask the other pilot if they can smoke.

As for SOPs, watch out all you FOs who put up with Captains smoking when they shouldn't be. This happened in my company and after one of the cabin crew had reported him (and been backed up by others) the FO was dragged in to ask why they had not reported it. So they were put in the s*it by the Captain's "right" to smoke.

Be careful....

[fernytickles]

Smoking has been banned in many large offices and work environments for good reasons. If its been banned in those situations, why should one person in a confined space inflict the second hand smoke on the other person? Some of the responses really surprised me - why do you put up with it, guys and guyesses? Bleeeuuurrgghh :yuk:

Would you let someone smoke in your car? Not me. There's plenty of places outside where the smoking can be done, the same goes for the 'plane

[MAX]

Let the big man smoke then open the flight deck door letting all those pissed off and drunken pax queing for the toilet see him. Explain that smart arse!

Seriously, I've had a few smoke on turnarounds with the CC but never in the flightdeck. I just do a walkaround until they've finished. I dont think threatening an F/O over a nicotine fix is very condusive to good CRM and most professionals know this.

Having also worked in the bizjet environment smoking on empty sectors was a no no as most pax didnt pay a squillion bucks to ride in an aircraft smelling of stale ciggie from the flightdeck.

I dont spit my beer all over the Captain on a nightstop so they dont breathe smoke in my face.

MAX:cool: