When is the "right time" to quit flying?

[MikeGodsell]

Help! When is the “right time” to quit flying?

Flying is what I do…..or have done?

40 years and 11,200 hours as Flt Eng & Pilot on big jets big pistons, and little ones.

RAF colleagues died on mountaintops and in the sea, and after engines exploded, but I never even thought of giving up.

In BOAC / BA hijackings, bomb scares, taking control from a captain, nearly being shot down by the US Navy, and a few other incidents failed to dent my enthusiasm for flying.

Scud running, diversions for really bad weather, carb icing over a city, crossing the channel in 30 knt headwinds, having friends drown in that same channel. Still the joy & privilege of flying on little aeroplanes had me hooked.

But now things have changed. I fly much less, and when I do it’s not relaxed. The things that could go wrong are uppermost in my mind. I do not trust anyone other than me to service my aeroplane. I no longer feel confident enough to take people up to share the joys of flying. Above all, the horrible accident at Kemble has really got to me.

Just an attack of the “vapours” or time to give up… anyone else feel this way sometimes?

MG
:ouch:

[DubTrub]

anyone else feel this way sometimes yes, on occasion we all do.

There is no right time, Mike, nor is there any time..it is in our blood. Find a new challenge...renew a rating, get a checkout in something new, become an A/G operator, take up paragliding (or even gliding). Get a permit whizz-bang that you can service yourself, or whatever.

Yes, perhaps an attack of the vapours, but what else are you to do? Take up fox hunting?

[BroomstickPilot]

Mike, there is no hurry to be taking decisions. First of all, I suspect you are still in shock after Kemble. I think you need to take some time completely away from flying to probe how you're feeling. This will also allow time for you to recover from the effects of the accident at Kemble. How long should you take? Just as long as it takes!

Just see how you get on for a short while without flying being a part of your life, bearing in mind that it has clearly been central to your existence for decades. If possible, test out some new interests and just see if they are enough for you.

Alternatively, you could pass on your clearly immense experience by becoming a ground instructor, perhaps on a professional course somewhere. Although even PPLs or the Air Training Corps would surely benefit from what you have to teach.

Another suggestion; it sounds as though you have some tales to tell. Have you ever thought of writing about your experiences? Since the sad loss of Duke Elegant we are definitely short of a teller of amazing-but-true stories around here. It'd be nice to have a British one.

I'm a lowly PPL with not all that many hours in my log, (a beginner by your standards) but I learned to fly originally in the late 1950s. In those days, still barely fifteen years after the end of World War II and only seven after Korea, there were still quite a few of what we used to call 'shell shocked' airmen about. My own instructor was one. These were people who had seen a lot of friends killed and had ended the War feeling very much the way you do, but they were compelled to go on flying as they knew no other way of making a living.

Fortunately, you are not in that situation. You can choose whether you give up flying altogether, do something else related to flying, or carry on flying as before.

You have a choice, Mike. Don't be afraid to exercise it, but don't be in a hurry.

Very best wishes,

Broomstick.

[Whirlybird]

Mike,

This realising we're not immortal seems to happen to many of us as we get older. :{ That includes me, and I haven't been flying anything like as long as you have. The answer to your question comes down to one thing, and one thing only - do you want to give up? If you do, then fine. There's no law of the universe that says because you've been flying for 40 years you have to carry on; you can take up something else, or just chill out for a while. You can give up for a bit...then the next time the sun shines and you see that little aircraft overhead and wish you were there, you can start up again. Or if those suggestions actually sound awful, then carry on. Maybe it'll be different from how it was before, maybe you'll never get back your carefree attitude of the past, but you can find a different enjoyment, if that's what you want to do. But it doesn't have to be a big decision to be all made at once.

[Flyin'Dutch']

If something like an accident has unsettled you (which would be quite normal) the worst thing you can do is lay off at that stage.

You will never get back into the swing of things.

Flying is a amongst a lot of other things a motor skill which deteriorates with lack of exercise.

Add to that the growing apprehension from a lay off and you are on the slippery slope to the exit.

If your concerns are about 'fitness to fly' (and I am not just talking about physical fitness) then that is completely different ball game.

Am sure that someone with a pedigree like yours must have some good flying mates that can give you an honest appraisal of your flying (with all the associated gubbins) and work out with you what is what.

My old man stopped after many decades of (recreational) flying in his early seventies. He stated that he had always flown with pleasure and accident free and wanted to stop before someone came and told him.

He has since taken up golf (so we now don't talk anymore):yuk: and seems very happy.

There is life outside flying.

Do what you feel most comfortable with!

[fireflybob]

The message is to LIVE LIFE!!

Bit like the tsunami tragedy - does this mean we should wear lifejackets on the beach or stop taking holidays in a potential tsunami region? I say NO - but how many of the people who died, say, in this event had put off doing the things they dreamed of doing or did not say "I love you" to those closest to them? This is not meant as any criticism of those who have perished or to belittle the bereavement suffered by friends and family.

The message is to seize the day and live life to the full!

PS My dad was still flying when he was 81 years and when asked when he was going to "retire" he always gave one simple answer - "NEVER!"

[Floppy Link]

MG
Get yourself into a helicopter!
Try something new...keeps the interest level up.

Russell

[MikeGodsell]

Oh Oh! what a selfindulgent winge-pot I turned out to be! :O

But many thanks all of you for indulging my fit of the vapours, and your heartening responses.

Flying does get into the blood, and we become members of a "tribe". We may sometimes disagree as in "Jet Blast" encounters, but right now it feels like the tribe is looking after me.

I promise to pull myself together soonest :{

MG :ok:

[Flik Roll]

The time to quit is when you stop loving it or the medical tells you to quit.

[Genghis the Engineer]

A thought or two from somebody who should get on with some work

Quitting flying is one thing, modifying what and how you fly is another.

If worried about medical issues (more than the AME was presumably), there are plenty of cheap single seaters out there.

If worried about dwindling cash reserves, fly something cheaper - gliders, microlights or a big syndicate (or a big glider or microlight syndicate).

If worried about limited time, take your grandkids flying!

If you want things done your way, run your own aeroplane, or start a syndicate on the clear understanding that you are in charge.

If you've lost your medical, make friends amongst youngsters who would appreciate somebody of your experience along for the write.

If you aren't enjoying it any more, learn to fly something totally different - however experienced you are I'm willing to bet there are one or two areas of private aviation that you haven't explored.

If all else fails, take out a subscription to "PC Pilot" magazine, and fly with loads of others via the internet (doesn't appeal to me personally, but it's got to be better than cross-country hockey).


Change need not mean giving up.

G

[Kolibear]

May I suggest that you go flying with another PPL. It does wonders for your confidence, when you are RHS, you can sit back and enjoy the flight, but assist when needed. When you are LHS, you have someone to discuss any problems and assist you.

[Windy Militant]

You could re-read this thread.
The otherside of the cones (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133777&highlight=cones)



:ok:

[Circuit Basher]

Thanks, Windy - I'd forgotten that one, which was excellent!

Mike - as others have said, try something different to rekindle the flame - if powered, then maybe aeros / tail dragger / open cockpit. Alternately, maybe gliding, ballooning, microlights - anything to get the 'buzz' back. I'm with the ATC and occasionally take young pax up who I've taught Principles of Flight or Air Nav to and then try to do air exercises that reflect the theory they've had on the gorund. Alternately, volunteer for a PFA Young Eagles day locally - I'm sure they'll bite your hand off!!

On the subject of good writings, I like the following (which is written as an epitaph for a pilot, but the bit about giving your soul a 50 hr check is quite telling!).

If I ever kill myself flying, I would ask but one thing from you all.

Learn as much as you can from whatever I did wrong, but don't waste your sympathy. It will have happened in the context of a pastime I love with an enduring passion, in full knowledge of the inherent risks, and in attempting to minimise them through knowledge, practice, and care.

But I'm fallible, like all of us, so nothing is guaranteed.

If I have destroyed a beautiful aeroplane by my carelessness, I'm sorry. All aeroplanes are, of course, beautiful.

If I have hurt anyone else in the accident, again, I apologise, unless they were of like mind, aware of the risks, and making a free and informed choice to fly with me.

The way the human spirit is lifted in flight is more important than the life of any one individual pilot. There will be pilots, but there may not always be the historic and rare aircraft to be flown by them. Such aircraft are pointers to the heritage in whose shadow we all stand and enjoy our privileges, but when another one dies, so too does another small fragment of our connection to that heritage.

This is the real tragedy of Biggin and Rouen, and why it is important to remain connected to the history of man's adventures in the air, not just in books and museums. It is also the real tragedy of the loss of airfields, and the growing band of noise complainers. This lifting of the human spirit is increasingly denied to more and more, and replaced by a smallmindedness that impoverishes the soul.

And if any cynic out there denies that aeroplanes have their own life that encapsulates and reflects much of ours, go into a hangar full of them one evening, and in the quiet broken only by the wind rattling the hangar doors, listen very carefully.

If you hear nothing, maybe your soul needs a 50 hour check.

Whatever you decide, Mike - no-one can take those 11,200 hours of memories away from you, where I'm sure you've had your fair share of fun, dramas and 'valuable learning opportunities'. Enjoy and whatever you decide, as the song says "Don't look back in anger".

[Whirlybird]

I listen to you all, and I agree...of course I do! And yet.....

I remember my father, a keen photographer from his youth, who one day, in his eighth decade, gave me his camera, and said he just didn't want to do it any more. He didn't know why, but it was time to stop.

I talked to a keen skydiver last year. At the age of 60, after many years and jumps, she decided to stop. She wanted to take up something new...she was doing a PPL :ok:

I remember an ex-sailor who told me that sailing was either absolutely idyllic or absolutely terrifying; he'd been round the world, done all sorts of things, and...stopped.

Maybe all good things come to an end sometime. And maybe, Mike, if that's the case, it's better to stop rather than to try unsuccessfully to recapture something that isn't there any more. To have good memories, but to accept that things change, and to move on.

But only YOU can know if it's time to do that, or if it ever will be. And asking a bunch of people on the Private Flying Forum if it's time to give up flying is like asking a caterpillar what it feels like to be a butterfly.

Complicated business, life. :confused: :eek:

[John Farley]

Above all, the horrible accident at Kemble has really got to me.

Forgive me Mike as I don't know you and I don't know those killed at Kemble. But what I do know is that unless you are certain about exactly what happened in the cockpit at Kemble AND you are also sure that things would have been exactly the same if you were in that cockpit then there is no reason to let it get to you.

Whirly has it right. As she so often does.

JF

[MikeGodsell]

It was a warm, humid evening and the spectacular tropical sunset usually seen from this part of South America was missing. In it’s place a dark and menacing low overcast rolled in from the sea to create a sudden, and very dark, night.
The airline crew bus crawled along the coastal road towards Caracas International airport at Maquetia, carrying a 747 Classic crew returning to London after an unusually long layover at the Macuto Sheraton in Venezuela.
It was 1990 and I was the Flight Engineer on that crew, and as the bus drove on through the night I looked unseeing at the windows as I tried to reach a rational decision about an unexpected problem.
It had been a great trip, with five days off, and I had spent the time with a Spanish friend exploring the rain forest in the Amazonas area, sleeping in hammocks slung between trees, and visiting a Piaroha Indian encampment.
This was not usual behaviour for an airline crew, most people being content to lie beside the hotel pool and soak up the sun. However I had become more than enthusiastic about South America, and being a senior crewmember was able to choose the best trips using the airlines bidding system. So three weeks ago I had visited the Orinoco by riverboat, and two weeks before that, the Andes Mountains near Merida.
Maybe it was the mosquitoes; perhaps it was the food, certainly not the wine! But I felt very peculiar, not ill but “spaced out” with a touch of tummy trouble and a need to find a toilet fairly soon.
Had this condition shown itself back in the hotel a few hours ago, then I would certainly have gone sick, giving the airline time to find a replacement crewmember. But to do so now with only just over an hour to departure would cause massive problems and expense for my company. Also I was by far the oldest, and possibly the most experienced of the flight deck crew. (In the days of integrated flight crew, and cockpit resource management, flight engineers had become more like the conductors of an orchestra, most being more than capable of landing a 747 in the event of a pilot incapacitation)
So I decided to press on, and just to confirm my decision ran through the memory items of the emergency check lists with no apparent trouble. I was further comforted by the thought that my seat on the flight deck was nearest to the crew toilet, which I figured I might need frequently during the trip home!
At the airport briefing office we had a full pax load, and departure delays due arrivals holding for the weather. We started the engines on time however, and pushed back for the short taxi to the runway. ATC was very busy with mostly Spanish transmissions, but we were cleared in English to enter the active and hold. Still feeling “odd” I completed the checklist to “below the line”. We entered the active runway and began a right turn to line up, and from habit I looked out of the left side window to check the approach was clear. All in that same moment, a pair of landing lights appeared out of the overcast, frighteningly close. There was a burst of Spanish expletives on the radio, and ATC called “Speedbird expedite take-off…Speedbird expedite take-off”! The Captain called for full power…and I spooled up the engines as rapidly as possible looking forward at the EPR gauges to set the power that I had previously calculated for that day. But I COULD NOT READ THE GAUGES! they were a blur with the pointers and digitals unreadable to me. [Pratt & Whitney –7 engines are flat rated- that means there are no limiters, and only the pilot or Flt.Eng control overtemp, over pressure, overspeed, or total self destruction!]
But we had to go - 300 tons of Spanish airliner was hurtling towards our tail, and another Tenerife collision was imminent. F**!! we must go go! So I set the thrust levers by feel, and by the sound of the engines – and we expedited – by God how we expedited!
I spent the most of the trip home in the crew toilet, (thanks Capt. & F/O for covering for me) but reviving enough for the landing at Heathrow.
At home next day my Doc took samples and sent them off to the Inst. of Tropical Medicine for analysis.
Aweek later my Boss called me to HQ for interview.
Talk about stick & carrot! The recorded engine parameters were on the table, two engines had overtemped, and one had overpressured. “I had endangered an aircraft, this was a resigning matter” “The fact that no damage had occurred to any engine was irrelevant” - This was the big stick.
But then came the carrot – If I took early retirement the company would give me a generous severance payment. I enquired “How much”? and my Boss handed me a folded paper to read. – Seemed like it was time to go, and so ended 25 years of airline back seat driving. Then I started to fly little planes, but that’s another story.
The medics later confirmed that I had a nasty tropical bug which while causing vomiting and diarrhoea also produces mild hallucinations and forgetfulness. But by that time I had found in my flight bag, the eyeglasses that I always wore for night take-offs & landings - except my last flight in BA!

My point in giving out this story? Well things happen in aviation which defy reason, and you live to tell the tale. So many times it's happened to me, and I just wonder sometimes if my guardian angel is getting near retirement age herself?

Thanks everyone for your wonderful posts on this thread.
MG

[coopervane]

When the wife nicks yer credit card and cheque book!!!

Coop & Bear

[Paris Dakar]

Mike,

Everything that has been said makes perfect sense in its own right. I loved the 'Cones' (never read that before) and perhaps Whirlybird has hit the nail on the head?

All I would add is - you don't have to make your mind up today, tomorrow, next week or next year. Think things over, try something non-aviation related and perhaps when you least expect it 'flying' may take on a new interest again.

What do I know? Not much really but I have just got back flying again after a complete lay-off of 4 years due to a lack of money, young family and a general loss of interest really. Why did I come back to it? I don't know in short but I was sitting on holiday last year watching a PA28 flying into a small private farm strip in Kent.............and I thought to myself 'that looks fun'.

Enjoy what you do Mike, be it aviation or not.

PD

[BroomstickPilot]

Mike,

May I compliment you on your post about the trip back from Venezuela. It was a fascinating read and very well told. As I expected, there were lessons to be drawn from it;

1. During a stopover, it is best not to go into situations that might result in a challenge your immune system.

2. However, if you must go into areas where there are iffy public health conditions, say if you're a bush pilot working for a charity in some remote area of a hot, developing country, then you need to think about the likely incubation period of viral/bacterial nasties that you might encounter in the area, and be on the lookout for symptoms for perhaps days afterwards.

3. Airlines are likely to be unforgiving where anything happens that compromises flight safety, even when it happens to long established staff with a hitherto fine flying record.

All I can say now is please, MORE, MORE, MORE.

Very best regards,

Broomstick.

[MikeGodsell]

Whirlybird - for your wisdom.
Windy - for the Cones.
Genghis the Eng - for one spanner to another.
Broomstick, Circuitbasher, Dub Trub, Flying-Dutch, Fireflybob, Floppylink, Flikroll, JohnFarley, Kollibear, Parisdakar - :ok:

Broomstick are you serious! Raconteuring on pprune is likely to become an ego-trip, or total boredom for readers. :uhoh:

Hmm.. is there an appropriate thread for that sort of stuff and do most people want it? What do the mods think?

MG

[Paracab]

Mike,

If there are is any more where that came from, I would like to read it.

Reminds me very much of the stories so well written by Centaurus (a prooner and ex 73 driver, IIRC)

[BroomstickPilot]

Mike,

What I had in mind was a sort of one man's ILAFFT. We could all benefit from that.

You write 'em, I'll read 'em.

Good wishes,

Broomstick.

[BRL]

Hmm.. is there an appropriate thread for that sort of stuff and do most people want it? What do the mods think?


:ok: :)

[MikeGodsell]

I guess we are getting a bit off thread here now, but so be it...

HEINZ 57
It was the middle of the “Cold War”, late summer 1967; I was a very young RAF flight engineer on a Shackleton Mk 3 squadron based at Kinloss in Scotland. Our job was to keep an eye on Russian warships, particularly missile firing submarines and cruisers, and I had been well programmed to think that my squadron was at the sharp end, protecting civilisation against communist hordes.
Although very slow by modern standards, the Shack measured it’s endurance in days not hours, and a 12 hour sortie was regarded as normal. Shack crews ate well, the off duty watch cooking up some amazing meals in the amidships galley. The nautical theme continued with an operating height of 1000 ft, and attack height of below 100 ft. Shacks were fitted with washers to keep the sea spray off the windscreens, and the rest of the RAF believed that Shack crews set their altimeters according to high or low tide. Falling into the ocean was a constant hazard for Shacks, and aircraft on my squadron had returned minus the enormous underslung radar scanner, and / or bent prop tips due to hitting the sea on patrol. My own crew preferred to leave the HF radio trailing aerial extended during operations, as it hung about 50ft below the aircraft. The radio operator left his set on TX calling out “climb” “climb” whenever the meter zeroed meaning the end of the aerial was in the water.
My story begins at the strangest airfield I have ever seen, somewhere beyond the Arctic Circle on the Norwegian coast. The Russian Barents Sea fleet had been active, and my crew had been sent to a Norwegian airforce base from which to operate recce patrols. We had found the base, which consisted of a single runway next to a fjord and surrounded by mountains. There were no houses, no hangars, no control tower, no sign of anything except the long runway, but still the Norwegian controller directed us from somewhere. On landing we were directed to taxi towards a solid rock face at the side of the runway and stop. To my amazement the rock moved and exposed a cavernous interior, from which emerged first a Starfighter jet, and then our ground crew. This was 1967, what must that place be like now?
I refuelled the Shackleton, while the rest of the crew went off for operations briefing and extra rations. They arrived back cool, and refreshed while I as always was hot sweaty and clutching oily rags. (Don’t be horrible to your engineer…we are people just like you!)
It was the Arctic summer so there was no night, the Sun just moves around the horizon, and operations wanted us to get airborne immediately. Risking court-martial I rushed into the cavern to find a loo and washing facility, emerging slightly cleaner and less smelly to do battle with the Russians. We took-off and headed up the coast towards North Cape, a couple of hours later we were patrolling the mouth of the Barents Sea. Slow as it was the Shack had very powerful radar, able to pick out a submarine periscope at great distance, and our radar operator became quite excited at what his equipment was picking up. In those cold war days a convention had emerged between the RAF and the Russian Navy. Patrolling aircraft were allowed two circuits of a warship for photographs, but a third circuit would be considered a hostile action liable to retaliation. However Russians have a good sense of humour, and when encountered would usually send friendly insults to us over the radio. More sinister was their target practice with gun-laying radar, which could be heard on the inter-com as a series of rapid machine gun like popping sounds.
The radar operator homed us onto his contact, which suddenly split into many individual points. Spotting ships ahead, our Skipper called “action stations” and the off duty crew scrambled forward from the galley. We wound the propellers & engines up to fine pitch and combat power, bone-domes on and seat straps tight. Bloody hell! it looked like the whole Russian Navy was out there today. There were two missile cruisers, four destroyers, and lots of support ships. Our Skipper put the aeroplane into a shallow right hand circuit around this impressive fleet, and I remember thinking it odd as I looked out of my window, that I could not see any guns. Then I realised that I was looking down their barrels! On the second circuit it happened!! There was a tremendous bang from amidships, and vapour filled the aircraft. “They’re firing at us,” someone said, and the Skipper banked us away from the fleet, dived towards the sea and we headed for the horizon rapidly. “Sigs send a plain English distress to ops” said the Skipper, and “Eng. go back and check for damage” I grabbed the crash axe and fire extinguisher and headed towards the galley fearing the worst. It was a terrible sight, we had indeed taken a direct hit where it mattered, the galley oven door was off it’s hinges, baked beans were everywhere, SUPPER WAS RUINED. Why can’t some people make a hole in baked bean cans before heating them?


Is this true tale: genuinely boring, excruciating, embarrassing, and/or should you encourage me to tell more, or join a monastery, or just fade away quietly.
:uhoh: MG

[DubTrub]

Keep 'em a-coming, well-written and entertaining!

[bar shaker]

Great story MG, I would like to read more :ok:

[Paris Dakar]

Mike,

Brilliant!

I remember going to RAF Acklington (Northumberland) with my father on an 'open day' (I was about five or six years old) and seeing a superb low level fly past by a Shackleton. The noise was amazing and I can distinctly remember the ground vibrating under my feet as I stood there frozen to the spot with fear and exitement - all at the same time.

You are obviously incredibly passionate about your flying and that is clear for all to see.

Please keep them coming.

Thank you :ok:

[Rod1]

More More !!!!!!

Rod1

[BroomstickPilot]

Excellent, Mike!

Yes, do tell us more: these are good.

Once again, perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here. I remember one of the Bell X1 pilots (was it Everest or Scott Crossfield) wrote that when an emergency breaks out our first impulse is always to take instant action, when for best outcome we ought to take just a bit more time to assess the situation before taking action. In this case, the assumption of being hit when the true cause of the emergency was exploding rations.

In regard to the Shackleton, I remember, as a child of about 14 attending (probably the last) airshow at Liverpool Speke airport. An RAF Shackelton staged a mock attack on an imaginary submarine apparently sailing across the middle of the aerodrome.

What an impressive sight. Suddenly those big engines revved to combat power, rising from a deep, throaty drone to a howl and that huge aeroplane (a Lancaster derivative after all), began to kick imaginary hell out of the imaginary submarine, banking steeply after each run to come back and have another go.

Very best wishes,

Broomstick.

[Bob Stinger]

Keep em' coming fantastic read.

[MikeGodsell]

Wow…I am going to duck out of this for a while. Too many undeserved compliments, and besides I need to keep a few stories to pay for my beer!

This thread started with my query on when is the right time to quit aviation, and I guess many of us never do. Even if you dine out on “old aviators war stories” it’s still keeping in touch.

In the 747 Incident my company was generous to me, but the outcome could have been much worse for a lot of innocent people.
That is the lesson for me if I keep on flying aeroplanes for fun, the people flying with me are precious, are innocent, have priority for their safety over all other things.

A friend phoned me today asking for a trip around the Welsh mountains, and we will do it, but not before an instructor has checked me out and I have made up for last years crap summer and lack of flying.

MG
:)

[LOMCEVAK]

Mike,

The day that you fly and you learn nothing is the day to give up!

From your wonderful stories, you learnt a lot on those days and hence are justifiably still flying. Let us know what you learn going around the Welsh mountains.

Best rgds

L

[Paris Dakar]

Mike,

Brilliant! Try and get the checkride booked and just take it from there...................at your own pace.

I did my revalidation five weeks ago with a gentleman that I hold in very high regard, in fact had it not been for him I may never have made a return to flying at all. I admit to being nervous and apprehensive about flying but I'm not convinced that it's flying that makes me nervous and apprehensive - if that makes sense?

As a younger chap my motorbike was my trusty steed taking me on adventures and generally being bloody good fun to boot. I renewed my relationship with two-wheels last year but something is different, very different. I seem to worry more about what might happen when I'm riding my bike than I used to, which is a little strange given that I travel much slower than I ever did and my journies are way shorter.

I do however think that this may be part of just getting older, and viewing life a little more preciously than I did before? But who knows?

PD

[John Farley]

The day that you fly and you learn nothing is the day to give up!

Agreed. But if all you learn is that you are not as sharp as you were does that count as a reason to continue?

[Whirlybird]

But if all you learn is that you are not as sharp as you were does that count as a reason to continue?

IMHO, most of what you learn when flying is about yourself. What you can and can't do, how you react, the way your mind works, your limitations. If which case, John.....Yes, it counts. :ok:

[LOMCEVAK]

John,

An interesting philosophical point! One could say that we are not discussing reasons to continue but reasons to stop flying. If one learns that one is not as sharp as one used to be, that is a useful lesson learnt that may keep one safe and thus justify not quitting. On the other hand, it may be the impetus to "quit whilst you're ahead".

Second thoughts, I think that is what Whirlybird said, but she said it in English!

Rgds

L

[BroomstickPilot]

I have recently returned to flying after a break of forty years. (Yes, it does get into the blood: the break in my flying career has been longer than most people's flying careers, yet here I am back again)!

Thus, I am in prime position to compare the flying skill of '20 year old me' directly with '60 odd year old me'.

In terms of actual skill in handling the aircraft, I definitely do not think I am quite as good a pilot as I used to be, although the decrement in performance is not great.

At the same time, I am much less vane about my own ability and I am very much more cautious and risk averse than I used to be. I try to be professional about my flying, even though I'm only a PPL.

So Paris Dakar is right. Yes, you do become much more risk averse with age because you are much more conscious than the young person about the physical, legal and financial consequences of accident, and you no longer consider yourself indestructible.

To reply (with great respect) to John Farley. I believe that finding you are not as sharp as you were is only a reason for giving up if the extent of the decrement in your performance is such that your judgement leads you to believe that you are no longer either competent or safe flying whatever aircraft it is you fly. If you really feel you are no longer up to flying your current type, (for example if you fly some kind of 'hot ship') you might be OK flying something slower. Short of that, I feel it is a reason to continue, if that is what you choose to do, but with an additional increment of caution.

To recall the old addage, 'the superior pilot flies in such a way thay there is a reduced possibility that he/she will have to demonstrate his/her superior flying skills'; a perfect description of the flying style of the older aviator.

Broomstick.

[MLS-12D]

In the 2/03 issue of Free Flight, there is an article entitled "Hanging Up One's Wings" (http://www.wgc.mb.ca/sac/freeflight/03_02.pdf), which may perhaps be of interest.

[Whirlybird]

Good article....I hope I can remember what it says by the time I get to the age when I'll need it. :)

[MLS-12D]

Glad you liked it!

A related Free Flight article, published in 2001, is "The Geriatric Pilot" (http://www.wgc.mb.ca/sac/freeflight/01_01.pdf).

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

IMHO, most of what you learn when flying is about yourself. What you can and can't do, how you react, the way your mind works, your limitations.

Whirley- Yes! So true. Often, when people ask 'is it difficult to fly an aeroplane?', I think they are hoping I'll somehow compare it to driving a car, which is something they think they may be able to judge it by.

But there is no such comparison to be made, which leaves me in difficulty when I'm (frequently) faced with this question. Thank you for encapsulating it so susinctly.

SSD

[MLS-12D]

Here's another reference article: "Pilot age and performance: an annotated bibliography (1990-1999)" (http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/age60/media/age60_1.pdf).

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I was not going to comment, however I may as well.

Age is relative to how one feels and performs.

I'll be seventy in three months and I earn my living giving advanced flight instruction and also still fly unlimited aerobatics with no decernable degrading of my performance.

When the time comes that I have even the slightest concern for safety I hope I will be able to recognize the trend and I will then retire from commercial aviation, but if safe I will fly simple aircraft for pleasure if I so desire.

So in short it is not really difficult to determine ones performance as long as you are aware of what exactly to look for.

Chuck E.

[MLS-12D]

Hi Chuck,

If you're only 69, flying regularly and still in good physical condition, I don't see why you shouldn't expect at least five years of flying ahead of you, and probably more. :ok:

I earn my living giving advanced flight instruction and also still fly unlimited aerobatics with no decernable degrading of my performance.IIRC, you don't possess an instructor's rating, right? That makes you a dangerous criminal! :p See generally the silly comments made on pages 3 and 4 of this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181569). :rolleyes:

Cheers,

MLS