Farmstrip Flying

[benjamin1981]

Afternoon All,

I have got a quick question about flying from farmstrips. I am currently a 70 hour PPL and looking to build up my hours. I read recently that flying with a group from a farmstrip is the cheapest way and offers some more 'challenging' flying.

My question is; would this be a good idea for a low houred PPL such as myself and where can I obtain more info on farmstrip groups in the Herts/Essex area. I currently fly from Stapleford.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Ben

[Monocock]

My question is; would this be a good idea for a low houred PPL such as myself

Absolutely!

As long as you respect the fact that there are some huge differences in how to fly from farm strips compared to vast acres of tarmac you'll never look back

I cut my teeth on farm strip flying when I had 70 hrs and I bought a Cessna 150. You are heading in the direction of some very satisfying and rewarding flying if this is an area of GA that interests you.

Go for it!!

Please feel free to contact me if you wish to discuss more

[TheKentishFledgling]

Clacton do a "farm strip special" course - about 10 hours I think.

tKF

[Cusco]

Absolutely!

Farmstrip flying tightens up your skills bigtime:

Farmstrips are on the whole much shorter than the huge blacktops many fly from and you'll learn to plonk it down in the right place every time.

Biggest asset to me is that the farmstrip doesn't close at 6pm: you can fly right on up to official night.

Nothing quite like turning off the engine at dusk, opening the door and as well as the tink tink tink of the engine cooling, you hear the skylarks and the distant combine harvesters.

Get some hours in with an instructor then learn to fly for real.

Oh- and you don't have to fly some cr*p old string bag from a farm strip: I've been flying an Arrow two from the best strip in East Anglia for 10 years.

Safe (and unlimited) flying

Cusco

[Gertrude the Wombat]

10 hours??

Does it really take that long to learn how to use farm strips when you're getting the owner's briefing each time, or is that a course intended to also teach the farmers how to design and maintain the strips?

[Flyin'Dutch']

One in our Maule group had 70 hours and no tailwheel or strip experience when he joined.

He seems to be enjoying himself!

[benjamin1981]

Thanks for your replies so far.....definately want to give it a try now but need to find a group. Anybody out there know of any in Herts/Essex or where I could find out? Have tried Flyer website and a PPrune search to no avail.

[Sensible]

Try the Popular Flying Association website;

http://www.pfa.org.uk/

A lot of people who fly from strips also fly "permit" aircraft which is really affordable flying!

[PPRuNe Towers]

....also get out amongst the clubs and visit the flying strips in the area.

I got nowhere with publications when I moved south after many years flying in the North West.

Notice boards and just chatting provided a goldmine of information and many excellent day's out. Club notice boards make it worthwhile visiting them but even better the ads point you in the direction of farm based strip flying groups.

It made the search an enjoyable activity in itself and met cracking good individuals and groups at the grass roots. Highly recommended as is taking your time over it.

regards
Rob

[DubTrub]

benjamin You don't necessarily need to be based at a farm strip to enjoy farm strip flying. Now I don't know many airfields in the Herts/Essex area, but you might consider trying to get access to a farm strip flying machine first, before finding a farm strip. Visit a few airfields like like Andrewsfield or Earls Colne.

After finding a machine you like, get some hours under your belt, and then go introduce yourself to some farm strip owners, and ask if you can fly in to their strips. Then you will gain experience.

As illustration: I operate a typical simple PFA-type farm strip machine but from a medium-sized regional airfield. Been doing so since 70 hours TT. Now I'm at >1500 hours, and still flying the same aircraft based at the same regional airfield, but I have many happy hours flying to many farm strips.

GtW I think TkF is referring to the Clacton "course". Perhaps like the AOPA Aerobatic "course", it has no legal standing, but offers the trainees some good basic tuition in the chosen subject. Don't knock it.

benjamin I would add that you will either "find" a group (through notice-boards, etc) or become "invited" into a group, and the only way to do the latter is to become friendly with a variety of clubs, etc, and let it be known that you are interested in joining a group, and they shall seek you out.

Hope this helps.

Rob (another one)

[bar shaker]

If you do get into a farm strip, spend an hour with one of the existing residents, in his RHS and then an hour in your aircraft with him RHS.

The main things to learn are about local areas to avoid, the local joining proceedure and any local wind perculiarities such as rotor from trees when the wind is in a certain direction.

10 hours for a farm strip course seems a ridiculous amount of time and is probably a ridiculous amount of money too.

I have flown from a farm strip virtually since having my license. I have not done anyone's 'course' but got help from the existing resident at my strip.

Its worth staying a member of the club where you learnt, as flying circuits at farm strips is almost always a real no-no. Its TOFO every time. Do your circuits at a public airfield. If in Essex/Herts, Andrewsfield do a circuits season ticket, but I'm not sure if this is for residents only. Its very cheap for unlimited circuits.

The other really nice thing about being on a farm strip is just going down to the hanger for a couple of hours, even when you aren't going flying. It is a kind of sanctuary from wife, kids, work or whatever it is that you enjoy the occasional break from.

Pros:

Your short field/PFLs will be 1st class.
Good comraderie with other residents
Approx 20%-30% cost of being based at a big airport.
No queuing at the hold.
You'll fly a lot more hours as the whole thing is much more accessable.

Cons:

No spares/mechanics other than you. (DI before you put the aircraft away. You'll find any problems before you next want to fly)
May get water logged in winter.
You'll need to do circuits elsewhere.

[LowNSlow]

benjamin there are some nice strips in Herts most of which are PPR such as Bennington. The strip I fly from, Rush Green, isn't PPR however, the owner does charge a fiver landing fee for non-based aircraft.

You are more than welcome to visit Rush Green, check your pm's.

[QTS]

My understanding is that the Clacton 8 hour farm strip course is a tail wheel conversion course. Their standard tail wheel course is 5 hours, and I believe this course just includes another 3 hours of farm strip flying. Is that not correct?

[TheKentishFledgling]

Good point QTS. A quick look on their website reveals:

http://www.clacton-aero-club.uk.com/prices.htm

So it's eight hours including tailwheel conversion.

tKF

[Genghis the Engineer]

5 hours for a tailwheel conversion????????

G

[foxmoth]

5 hours for a tailwheel conversion????????

Are you thinking too much or too little?
Depending on ability and experience I would have said this was probably about right for most people to cover everything.:ok:

[QTS]

Didn't tKF recently do the 5 hour tail wheel course at Clacton? I'd be interested in whether he thought it was enough, as it's something I've been considering myself.

[robin]

Like all courses, if you demonstrate that you are good and safe, or reasonably so, then the likelihood is that it might be less than 5 hours. There is no set time for this in any official publication - it is only a 'difference' issue.

On the other hand, if you are wedded to spam-cans or have difficulties in seeing the 'big picture', then it might take more than the 5 hours.

Whatever happens, the instructor is the deciding factor - he won't sign off until you can prove to his/her satisfaction that you are safe for flying on your own, given that once you have the signature, they may be held responsible for your future conduct. There are some pilots I would just tell to go away and take up sailing!!

However, tailwheel/farmstrip flying does liberate you, so give it a go

[Genghis the Engineer]

Seems a lot to me. I did mine at Thruxton where I took just over an hour (had a few advantages from "other" flying) but the average from chatting to people seemed to be around 2 hrs for a club pilot - and Thruxton is not a place known (in my experience) for low standards, in fact quite the reverse.

I'm sure some people due to lack of ability, or taking a long time over it will require nearer the 5 hours, but it seems a lot for a standard tailwheel check done in one go.

However, tailwheel/farmstrip flying does liberate you, so give it a go
Amen !

G

[drauk]

I have done the 8 hour farm strip course at Clacton. It is supposedly 5 hours for the tail wheel conversion then 3 more hours flying in to various farmstrips around Essex. In reality it was more like 2 hours dual, 2 hours solo and the balance visiting farm strips. One was so steep that you needed a lot of throttle after touch down to stop yourself rolling back down the strip.

The whole thing was very enjoyable and worthwhile. The instructors were friendly and the strips we visited varied, some with interesting histories and/or collections of resident aircraft.

[Lomcovaks]

Yeah Genghis,

My tailwheel conversion consisted of two circuits at Cranfield in a friend's Cub (I'd just bought one).

I was shown the first and 'monitored' for the second which I flew and then cleared with the admonishment "Don't go crazy and just try to land in gentle headwinds for the first few hours."

That was 800 hours ago, so something must've stuck!

One of my biggest laughs last year was a friend based at a rather challenging farm strip went to a tailwheel instructor at a somewhat larger establishment for his proficiency check.

They ended up back over my mate's strip and when invited to land away the intructor couldn't manage it!

[bar shaker]

One was so steep that you needed a lot of throttle after touch down to stop yourself rolling back down the strip.

That'll be Nayland then
:)

[AerBabe]

I think my tailwheel conversion took about an hour and a half. The first day we did a couple of three-pointers and wheelers on grass. The second day we flew a short navex (including upper air work) to North Weald, where we did a couple of three-pointers and wheelers on tarmac. Mind you, my instructor missed out training me in landing on one wheel.

[skydriller]

It appears we are talking about both together here...do they really go so much hand in hand?

Can I ask what constitutes a 'farm strip' to the forum? Are we talking about short strips (how short is short? less than 500m, 400m?) or those with challenging approaches due obsticals etc? We are very spoiled with long strips here in this part of France ...and I didnt get to fly from any grass strips/airfields when learning in the UK.

I would like to add that I have had only modest experience of tailwheel flying, having learnt on Cessnas and switched to Robins here in France. I found flying a tailwheel Jodel very easy (a friend has one), confident & competent after less than a half dozen circuits. However I was in the US recently, and had a couple of hours dual in a Citabria in some time off, and was nowhere near good enough/confident in my ability to handle it by myself, I reckon I needed another 3 or 4 hours at the very least. A completely different aeroplane - but great fun!!

Regards, SD..

[shortstripper]

I suppose the definition of a farm strip here in the UK, is a private, unlicenced airstrip, typically situated on farm land. Some are like "proper" aerodromes, with a couple of cut runways and 800 metres long, others have no defined "runway" and are simply a field in which an aircraft operates.

What's a short strip? ... I suppose it depends on the aircraft? what is short for say a PA28 might be cosidered long for a PA18. As a guide I'd say anything under 500 metres could be considered short, but then 500 metres with clear approaches is often easier than 800 with slope and obstructions.

My strip is 250 metres with a telephone wire 75m from one end and a 20' hedge at the other. I can just about get out in my VP2 but it's easy for a Zenair STOL that is also based here. It's certainly too short for the Falconar (Jodel type) and I'd not encourage anybody to fly-in without seeing it on foot first; even with a capable STOL aircraft and experience.

SS:ok:

[In Altissimus]

It appears we are talking about both (tailwheel and farmstrip) together here...do they really go so much hand in hand?

Good point.

I was at a strip for an hour or so on Monday and there were probably a dozen movements - none of which were tailwheel. OK - there was a fair contingent of microlights, but also a nice selection of modern 'VLAs' - all with tricycle gear.

While we're at it; what's the dividing line between an unlicenced airfield and a farmstrip?

[bar shaker]

IA

The VLAs were probably microlights too.

My personal favourite is the Eurostar. I watched one use all of 75m to get in and stop, a couple of weeks ago. A true farmstrip flying machine that will also cruise at 100mph in comfort.

The best thing about flying from farm strips is that you get invited to other farm strips. I know of over 30 in Essex alone, none on the map/in Lockyers and nearly all by invitation only. And I've never been charged a landing fee at one.

[AerBabe]

There is also such a thing as a tailwheel microlight...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ah, but taildragger microlights are horrible ugly things, just look at these :O Who'd be seen on one of those? Not worth being seen in such a thing just because it costs the same new as a ropey old C152 and can cope with a 250m farmstrip.

G

http://www.realityaircraft.com/images/g-esca_taxiing_sml.jpg

http://web.telia.com/~u17112535/images/Malaren2000_0222AA_small.jpg

http://www.thruster.co.uk/jab6.jpg

http://www.murphyair.com/complete/Roes1.jpg

http://www.acf.clara.net/scale/scale-pics-4/bipe/g-wzol/gi-wzol-1.jpg
(Incidentally, 3 out of those 5 are actually British as well!).

[AerBabe]

Mmm... Renegade... *drool*...

[Scoob]

I love farm strips. Much more fun than long tarmac ones. Best one was either Lewknor (? spelling) as I had to look both ways for vans on the road just prior to the threshold. Cromer is also fun. Had trouble finding it but it is a fun place to land incidently had to look for vans and cars at that one also. Picture of the cromer landing is the one at the top right.
http://www.chris.gurney.co.uk/pics.html

[Algirdas]

AerBabe, you are the first person I have known who thinks a Renegade is good looking - is it the outrageously long red protruberant nose that catches your fancy???
:E

[BlueRobin]

Essex you say? Go to Clacton and do as many hours (dual) as you can afford, then rent some more solo time.

[bar shaker]

Scoob

Cromer is one of my favourite places to fly to. Chris Gurney runs a great field and will organise taxis into town for lunch and knows some very good B&B's if you want to stay the weekend.

Flying up to Blakney Point and seeing the seals is good, as is landing on the beach there if the tide is out. The sand is very hard.

Some great country houses to see too.

There's a video of us larking around in flexwings at Cromer here (http://www.essexmicrolightclub.org.uk/images/Beach_0001.wmv )

No problems getting bigger stuff there and Chris normally has fuel too. Sold at what it costs him... something pretty unique, in my experience.

[Scoob]

Unfortunatly when I went there we could not shut the engines down as the battery is not strong enough to start them again. Just picked up some marines so they could jump out over the town. Would love to go and actually get out to have a look around .

PS. Nice video, always wanted to have a go in a microlight, they look like so much fun.

[Colonial Aviator]

Last summer I did a tailwheel conversion out in Manitoba, Canada with Harv's Air, was about 10 hours before let loose on my own. Perhaps it's just me, but 5 hours to go from trikes to traildraggers doesn't seem that much to me. And previous experience (not that I have much) was 95 hours courtesy of Aunt Betty's Flying Club and I consider that to be pretty decent training. I think it would be hard to appreciate the variety of conditions, such as crosswind landings in such a short space of time, if you even enounter those conditions at all. Perhaps I'm a slow learner?

[The Right Stuff]

I flew taildragger (C140) at around 30 hours, to fill in time during my PPL.

Did about 2 hours altogether, and the instructor said I was ready for solo, but a/c insurance wouldn't allow it until my license is in my hand.

Didn't do any landings on cross wind limits, but felt ready to solo her.:ok:

Also did some complex single time to fill the hours in too.

Instructor says I have better than average ability.;)

I think years of flying tail dragger r/c models has a lot to do with it; power to weight ratio soons teaches you about swing on take off.:E