TC Move to Swanwick

[BDiONU]

Just been announced as October 2007 and the Military in time for xmas '07.

BD

[Barry Cuda]

Damn you, BDiONU, I thought I had the scoop on this one!

Anyway, only 30 months and counting...!

[pr00ne]

What will that leave at West Drayton?

[Jerricho]

More land for burnt out cars?

[AlanM]

Very good Jer :)

(Didn't you live in West Drayton.......)

[Jerricho]

West Drayton North thank you very much. A nice 5 minute walk to work.

And there was a reason I would leave my car at the Centre :E

[Barnaby the Bear]

West Drayton is a lovely place......if you really close your eyes tight and think of somewhere else. :}

[gumpalump]

can't be any worse than the 'Peg tracon can it?
what was the murder count last year again?

[Jerricho]

can't be any worse than the 'Peg tracon can it?

Never knew we had a Tracon. :rolleyes:

And yes, it's much worse (plus I now don't have to put up with bloody Girls Aloud and all that other ****e..........give me Shania Twain any day :E)

[pr00ne]

So,

When TC and the Mil move to Swanwick what will that leave at West Drayton from an ATC point of view?

[Gonzo]

Nothing at all.

[A I]

Well no ATC people but lot's of infrastructure!! :D :D

[Minesapint]

NAS is the last major bit of fairly important kit at LTCC. That should move before TC but its all been a little quiet. West Drayton - (logoverland) gone and forgotten!

[A I]

Agree about NAS but also lots of other legacy bits like RTF and ATOTN all route through WD at the moment. The transfer is pretty complicated and the timescale certainly looks aggressive.

A I

[Minesapint]

That's true. Its pretty aggressive for NAS & CCDS let alone all the other kit.

[gumpalump]

erm that was what brits call "irony" Mr J.

how exactly is (at least) 30 murders last year, in a town the size of Southampton, worse than West Drayton?


I'm not saying WD is heaven of course...

[Lock n' Load]

We're a tad off-topic here, for which I'm sure Jerricho will gladly take the blame...
The UK has the second highest rate of assault in the world, and one of the highest burglary rates. I'd rather accept a 0.02% annual risk of being murdered (Alberta has a lower murder rate than Manitoba) than a 3% annual risk of being assaulted!
Incidentally, just as most murders in Manchester, London, Birmigham and Glasgow are drug or other crime related (and the rest due to marital strife), and tend to perpetrated by the desperate on the desperate, I think you'll find the same is true in Winnipeg. Jerricho will have to be there for at least 5 years before he drives people crazy enough to resort to murder. :ok:

Note to Mrs Jerricho - put the knife down. You have to make it look like an accident to collect the life insurance.

[Jerricho]

how exactly is (at least) 30 murders last year, in a town the size of Southampton, worse than West Drayton?

We could go into the demographics of it Gump, but here is neither the time nor the place :rolleyes: You're not being ironic, you're comparing chalk and cheese (you ever lived in Winnipeg?)

(LnL, why is it always my fault? ;) )

[gumpalump]

I have lived there actually - so am pretty qualified to make comments I reckon (observe the lack of "humorous" smilies in my post?).

Not sure where Alberta comes into it either.

Much prefer London/South East UK myself.

[Jerricho]

I have lived there actually - so am pretty qualified to make comments I reckon

So then you do realise the folly in the comparison with Southampton.

I certainly know where I would rather live.

(This isn't who I think it is........ Mr G?)

[Minesapint]

So is WD in Winnipeg, Alberta or Southampton :D

[Jerricho]

I think it's wishing it was in Southampton :E

[HAMMY]

I'm still here Jerricho and I'll not have a bad word said against West Drayton.It must be at least 4 days since we last got woken up in the night by the Police chopper.

[Jerricho]

Wow. Sounds like things have improved since I left.

[Minesapint]

A relative of mine is a Met police dog handler and operates in the WD area. He likens it to the Bronx or LA south side 20 years age (his wife is from LA and he lived there from 80 - 90). The sooner the place is shut the better. He suggests that you do not walk in WD after dark!!! At all if female.:ouch:

[Jerricho]

He suggests that you do not walk in WD after dark

Aye, you could run into Hammy on his way home from work :E

[goldfrog]

You don't actually need to move NAS to move TC, but it is planned to be in service at Swanwick long before TC moves. CCDS is being replaced with another (ACID) system which is also position independant to the TC move.

[Minesapint]

Thanks, involved in various projects in this area. It does not matter where NAS is (to Scotland or Manchester either) but it might affect business if we close WD and forget to take it with us - and ACID - if its working by then of course.

[BDiONU]

Might affect NAS if it were at Scottish 'cause unless they make a NAS midi (no chance) then the Scots are just an OLDI to NAS ;-)

BD

[PPRuNe Radar]

NAS won't go to Scottish. They are getting a new FDP system courtesy of Caspian. One which supports full OLDI protocols I understand ;)

[BDiONU]

Ah yes the mighty ITEC LOL!! Lets not hold our breath on that coming in any time soon.

BD

[Minesapint]

Mighty! I will believe that when I see it. iTEC means, I think, inter summat through european co-operation / co-ordination. No iTEC system exists yet. SACTA goes to ScACC. iTEC for London to replace NAS 2010 -2012. Yes, of course it will.:ok: :ok: :uhoh:

[PPRuNe Radar]

It was of course the SACTA one I was referring to, as mentioned by Mineasapint. It is already a fully functioning FDP system, with the ability to send PAC, MAC, and REV messages over OLDI. Something our current UK wide system can't.

Alas, I suspect the empire builders in NATS will be trying to dumb it down since NATS could never possibly buy something out of the box without tampering with it and taking useful functionality out :{

Time for NAS to realise its time is up and its life is limited. The engineers and support teams have done a great job of keeping it going over the years, but in comparison to modern day systems and what they can do, it looks very cumbersome and lacking in user friendly functionality.

[bagpuss lives]

For a thickie like me, could anyone explain briefly what a PAC, MAC and REV message is please?

[BDiONU]

Hhhmmm, the SACTA version of NAS does not do all that NAS can and has to. I'm no fan of NAS but there is no off the shelf replacement (except maybe the new version of NAS). Also remember that the SACTA thats going into nPC will be treated by NAS as ScACC currently is, as an OLDI, not as a part of NAS.

I'll speak to my experts on Monday about what the SACTA system and the proposed iTEC replacement does and does not do. My current understanding is that it is a long long way off of being anywhere near replacing NAS.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Wow - I'm glad I'm retired; I simply couldn't keep up with all this gobbledegook.... It took me 10 years to find out what EG meant.

[Minesapint]

SACTA v NAS is a none starter. NAS can handle the entire OLDI message set which goes way beyond PAC MAC & REV. NATS chooses not to spend the money on NAS to introduce additional functionality. Be aware though that its no good having all this functionality if the adjacent ACC's don't. I agree its time for NAS to go but only when the replacement is able to support the traffic levels. SACTA can? is Scotland/MACC but not in London, hence iTEC. Interoperability through european co-operation. Or, SACTA enhanced. Its safe to say that most controllers have a fairly limited understanding of their FDP system and that's the way it should be.

Forgot: PAC will be introduced in support of the NAS/SACTA split. PAC = Pre Activation Co-ordination. REV is a revision message and MAC is basically 'I aint commin'

[gumpalump]

careful with all this talk of NAS and any other ATC system that is automated - Jerricho will get jealous!
(should i insert a "wink" smiley here?)

[Jerricho]

Jerricho will get jealous

Jealous of what? :p

EXCDS never fails.........ever (just ask them campers at EGSS ;) )