The DVD/ Movie the Public needs to see!

[Ultralights]

just stumbled across this site, http://www.onesixright.com/

This sounds like a Movie/ doco/dvd that the public needs to see to understand just how Important Aviation is to the Local and federal economy! looks brilliantly made.

could you image such a GA airfield like this ANYWHERE in OZ, develppment right up to the Boundry fence!

the Trailer is worth the download, about 8mb. some brilliant photos as well.

If you register your interest there is a fantastic video of the air to air footage and some great film of a DC-3 on finals all the way to rollout, filmed from another aircraft in formation directly behind!! great stuff.

this leads me to a question, in the vid mentioned, the DC3 does near flawless wheeler, but immediatly retracts the flap on touchdown? with the tail still well high! is this common when flying tailwheel? also amazing watching the rudder work right up till the tailwheel hits the deck!.........

(i am in no way associted with the website or product.)

[Hudson]

Two methods of landing the DC3. The easiest is a tail-high wheeler where flaps are retracted after touch down to place the weight on the wheels for more efficient braking and to minimise the effect of any crosswind. The second method which required real finesse was the threepoint landing with all three wheels touching the ground at the same time.

If the hold off was prolonged and slightly too high the tailwheel might touch down first and a very nasty swing could occur unless you were real quick to stop it. The three-pointer was not for the novice, but if perfectly executed was a joy to behold. But never in a crosswind.

Again, it was best to retract the flaps on touchdown to mnimise any crosswind effect and get the tail wheel lock to take effect which helped keep the aircraft running straight.

[Beer Can Dreaming]

Correct me if wrong but didnt Ansett-ANA used to use the three pointer and TAA used the wheeler technique???

[glastar]

Bear Can Dreaming.

I had 4000 Hours on the DC-3/ Bristol 170 with ANA/Ansett and most of the landings were wheelers, Just an occaisional 3 pointer on a nice calm day.

I believe the TAA pilots many of whom were ex RAAF used the 3 pointer more often.

[gaunty]

WOW.:cool:

You're right, put my name down for a couple of copies and can't wait.:ok:

[7gcbc]

Glastar,

Wow 4000 hrs in a Dc3 now thats "Fate is the Hunter stuff" :D

Mind a question or two ?

Would you try and place both wheels on at the same time, or depending on the X-wind , lower first and then upper , and would you let the upper come down on its own or bring it down ?

Any "rigidity" from the props after touch down ?

Am I correct in assuming that the 3-pointers were avoided because drift was difficult to manage with the forward view ?


cheers

7gcbc

<edit> Ultralights, Great Find buddy, just watched the vid.

[Obiwan]

Wow 4000K in a Dc3 now thats "Fate is the Hunter stuff" If you've read the book 'Air America', there was a little anecdote where a rookie pilot pointed at a DC-3 and asked the seasoned oldtimer
"How many hours you got in that?"
"3000 hours" was the answer
"That's not a lot of time in DC-3s for someone of your age"
"No - 3000 hours in THAT DC-3, 2000 hours in the one next to it..."

(figures are wrong - its been a while since I read it but you get the picture ;) )

[Ultralights]

if retracting the flaps on the DC is common practice, is it common practice on other tail draggers? im refering to large tail draggers such as Bombers, lancasters, B17's etc. or is it common to all draggers?

[Ultralights]

finally managed to track down the direct link to the aerials video, fantastic air to air footage, including an immaculate P51, a Pitts, and the above mentioned DC3 flight , short final and touchdown, great choice of music as well,

hi definition, 15MB!

Aerials video 15Mb (http://home.exetel.com.au/pamuva/MOVIES!/aerials.mov)

[Point0Five]

(i am in no way associted with the website or product.)
Clearly:cool:

the Trailer is worth the download, about 8mb. some brilliant photos as well.
If you register your interest there is a fantastic video of the air to air footage and some great film of a DC-3 on finals all the way to rollout, filmed from another aircraft in formation directly behind!! great stuff.

[Chimbu chuckles]

obiwan I believe the figure was more like "10000hrs in that particular DC3". Just re read both Air America and The Ravens after finding copies in a Bangkok book store...might've even been 15000hrs...can't quite find the exact page.

As a counterpoint I have 10.7 hrs in the venerable Dak...all RHS:(

[dude65]

Obviously PO5 this a giant conspiracy to get people to buy something they really don't want.

[Wombat35]

:{ After my first landing of the DAK, with a full load of pax last weekend, I know what NOT to do.... and with no cockpit door I couldn't blame the Skipper... Oh well, see how we go this weekend... remember flare, then idle... not the other way! :ouch:

[Obiwan]

Chimbu
Thanks for that. I borrowed the book 15 years ago from a work colleague. Must really get my own copy one day....

0.5 in a DC-3 from row 3 (Dakota Airways joyflight) :ok:

Although my son can also quite proudly say his first flight was in a DC-3. Nothing really compares after that.

[Ultralights]

Point0Five, if i had anything to do with the site or dvd, would i go to the trouble of finding, then removing the embedded movie file then uploading the ripped file, so others can see it without having to reserve a copy for purchase later??

[Chimbu chuckles]

Remembered a story my Dad told of his time as a Dak Captain in the RAAF...about 59/60. Was going for a nice 3 pointer at a grass airstrip in PNG...when the arse fell out of his world he realised they hadn't cut the grass for quite some considerable time and he'd full stalled it in from about three feet:} :ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

Ultralights,

Top video. Looked almost fake it was so good. Loved the twinkling sun on that two-engined boat with the Mustang in formation. That looked very much like Reg waving from the Thumper...

[Chimbu chuckles]

The two engined boat is an A36...the fella waving from the Dak is the same guy saying in the trailer how he can remember the one day of his life that wasn't spent in aviation pursuits...Clay Lacy...in excess of 40000 hrs I believe logged in the left seat of about every aeroplane you can name...from pre WW2 biplanes (when they were new) to 747s....and EVERYTHING in between...one of the original Lear pilots/salesmen when he was also an active airline, airshow, movie etc pilot. The Dak he's flying is actually an original DC-3 that he ownes and has the most amazing corporate interior. He's set world records in Gulfstream jets...the man's resume just goes on forever....deserves a doco all to himself.

I wonder what the camera aeroplane was...Lacy used to have, and may still do, a Lear equiped with all sorts of cameras... virtually all that air to air footage you see of airliners and other high performance jets is/was filmed from his aircraft over the last 20 odd years.

[MkVIII]

3 pointers are the most common technique for TAA Sinbird Service pilots it seems anyway; or at least they BOAST about it the most! :p "Wheelers are for sissies" ;)

Old man flew the DC-3 in PNG. TONNES of stories, most covered in the "Low Act thread" elsewhere. Most lively stories always seem to involve Larry Blackman....

Anyway, three pointers versus whellers. Depends on the aircraft, the conditions, and the length of rwy! A three pointer will stop you faster than a wheeler, hence the TAA Sunbird guys using the 3 point technique - some short-arse strips in that part of the world!

My tailwheel experience is limited to a couple hundred hours on Tiger Moths, and I routinely 3 pointed them. Best X-wind technique in the Tiger was an ALMOST 3 pointer - a cross between a wheeler and a 3 pointer - tail LOW. I am still not sure why some pilots seem to have trouble in crosswinds with the Tiger - I find it a SIMPLE aeroplane in a crosswind - LOADS of rudder control, and easily co-ordinated in a crab with reversal on touchdown.

Flying it in a STRONG headwind is another story. Never have I been in a helicopter (and nor do I intend to!), but flying the Tiger on finals in a STRONG headwind is close enough to hovering! :p

I unfortunately have only been for one flight in a 3, and that was with the destinct honour of having jack Curtiss as PIC, on good old SBO (a former TAA Sunbird Services gal). Had a great talk to that fine old gentleman afterwards.

Who would be the highest time DC-3 pilot in the world now since Larry Blackman's passing? I guess old Jack would be pretty high up now???

[Ultralights]

I have only flown as PAX in a 3 to mudgee and to the richmond air show in 88! Jack Curtis was PIC. he was instrumental in my flying career, pointing me in the direction of Brain of Sydney Airways way back then, he is a good friends of my fathers, who worked with his wife!



my question is still not answered yet, Is the retraction of flap on touchdown a common technique in most/ all talidraggers?

[185skywagon]

Ultra,
i do it in the 185 when it is a bit gusty. you can feel it start to get light on the mains before the tail comes down. getting rid of flap fixes that problem whether you are 3 pointing or wheeling.
never ever take your eyes away from the front when dumping flap though, the view will not be the same as what it was before you started looking for the flap lever.
185

[blueloo]

Fantastic clip, i find the music rather haunting after September 11, when it was attached to a rather sad slide show in memory of the victims.

[Capn Bloggs]

That music reminded me of John Hoppawartee and the new enya ansett.:yuk:

[HSWL]

A couple of points. The shortest landing roll in the DC3 is a tail-high wheel landing (as discussed earlier) and immediate braking, because providing you use carefully applied forward pressure to maintain tail high, the weight was on the wheels and thus better braking efficiency. The brakes on the DC3 were drum type and prone to fading if hot and of course, no anti-skid.

On the other hand, a three-point landing required by definition a float period which used up valuable landing space. To some degree the float period could be reduced by reducing the speed on final to be over the fence at 65 knots instead of the normal 75-80 knots which is more comfortable.

If however, you made the mistake of holding off too high with a trickle of power still on and using the 65 knot approach, there was significant danger of stalling one wing and therefore hitting on one wheel while in a three point attitude. Very tricky.

The problem with a three-pointer with full flap is that it was all too easy to skid the wheels if you applied heavy braking to keep the landing roll short because with full flap there was still wing lift after touch down and the weight was not fully on the wheels.

By selecting flaps up after touch down the lift was reduced but keep in mind it takes several seconds for the flaps to retract and until they are fully up the braking efficiency was not that good.

The Lincoln bomber was a conventional undercarriage type (tail-wheel design) but it had twin fins. A three-point landing was easy to attain and the flaps were usually left fully down until taxying after landing. This was a throw back to the old airmanship aspect of do not retract the flaps until after stopping to minimise the chances of selecting gear up in error. In general that principle still applies to this day - except on a touch and go landing when the flaps are retracted and the elevator trim roughly set before applying full power.

There was mention of the three point landing restricting the view from the cockpit in the DC3. This is not so as there is no view restriction in the DC3 regardless of attitude. Different on the Lincoln Mk 31 Long Nose where the view was severely restricted after touch down in any configuration and a real problem on a flapless at night.

During the early Fifties RAAF Lincoln pilots at Townsville would watch with great interest the landing techniques of TAA DC3 pilots and Ansett DC3 crews.

Ansett did tail high wheelers which were safe but boring to watch. Work stopped however in the nearby hangars when we knew TAA were coming in and pilots and airmen alike would watch the TAA DC3's waffling in three-points and thumping down.

The usual 10-15 knot crosswind from the north-east on runway 02 brought out the ghouls as the TAA pilots stuck grimly to their company SOP of three-pointers regardless of crosswind. While I don't recall seeing any full blown ground loops, it was often a close thing.

We could not understand why they persisted in such foolish manoeuvres although certainly the entertainment value was high. But not to the unfortunate fare paying passengers at the arse-end.

But as someone suggested earlier it may have been that ex RAAF wartime pilots were running TAA and three pointers were considered the epitome of flying skill in those far off days. Fine on Tiger Moths and even on Wirraways and Mustangs but bugger that for a joke on Dakotas. I heard later that commonsense eventually prevailed and TAA left the type of landing to the pilot's discretion. That's when the game at Townsville got boring as TAA changed to tail high wheelers like their Ansett colleagues.

[Capn Bloggs]

HSWL,

a three-point landing required by definition a float period which used up valuable landing space.

Wouldn't a wheeler be even worse, waiting for the speed to reduce so the tail was on the ground before braking, or were you able to start braking with the tail still up?

[185skywagon]

don't know what it is like for the dc3, but you can stop in less distance with a wheeler in the 185, if you take into account distance used before actual touchdown. you can put a t/w aircraft potentially at any speed, and hold it on. sometimes have to operate out of strips that are one way, with 20 kts tailwind. you would have to be very organised with a trike, because you have to flare (and float). it is possible to wash off a lot of speed using brakes while the tail is still up in a T/W aircraft. can be a a fine balancing act, though.

185.:ok:

[MkVIII]

Wouldn't know - ALL the Tiger's I flew were stock standard with NO brakes except for the tail skid digging into the turf (which the airport groundsman HATED us for!). They tend to stop short REGARDLESS, but a properly executed and judged 3 pointer stops you QUICK compared to a wheeler in a Tiger (again, because you have NO brakes, tail high means the skid isn't retarding you, whereas the skid in a 3 pointer is immediate retardation, as well as the aeroplane being fully stalled).

There is a VERY fine line in judging a 3 point landing, and requires a good degree of skill to execute it properly and GRACEFULLY!

I defer to HSWL in regards to DC-3 performance, but I will mention ONE thing I did see with tinged amusement once - an RAAF Dak taking OFF in the three point attitude - no tail up, just standing start, taps wide, first stage of flap and away he went. Never saw it again, but it sure was a "Hey? WTF!" kinda moment! :p

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

I'd like to rescue MkVIII a little (he needs a hand lately - foot in mouth syndrome :p ) He deserves it.

Landing the DC-3. Assuming the pilot has correctly crossed the threshold at 50 ft, and correct approach speed and such, a wheeler landing WILL, as HSWL says, give a shorter landing DISTANCE. A 3 pointer will require more DISTANCE (float etc), but the ground roll will be SHORTER. So, it is 6 of one, and half a dozen of the other.

Now, if you flew the -3 at the arse end of the speed / drag curve, and 3 pointed it, you could make the girl land SHORT, and I mean SHORT! But, GREAT judgement, skill, and attention required!

TAA SOP was as mentioned 3 point everything, until one TAA PIC managed to do mischeif to a DC-3 at Forrest, WA. Then, TAA became the Wheeler Airline!

I do NOT recommend retracting flaps on landing to dump the lift and weight the wheels in a DC-3 - a certain pilot in PNG successfully raised the gear on landing instead of the flaps - the handles look almost IDENTICAL.... of course he was fired for it, and went to the opposition. :p It is NOT a good thing in ANY aeroplane, even with 2 crew.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Van Nuys airport. I wish YMEN could be held in the same regard:sad:

[tinpis]

Mostly wheeler in PNG in a 185 unless you can float along a nice long runway.
Wheels are for pegging on the ground so you can slam on the anchors.
DC3 deffo wheeler and remember the "new-fangled" powerful hydraulic brakes .
350lb pressure on the pedals can give you 25lbs pressure on the brakes.
http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/YeahRightgr.gif

[Chimbu chuckles]

I don't know about 'mostly wheelers in PNG in the 185'.

The only time I did wheeler landings at steep bush strips was when I was feeling particularly on top of things...or a bit like a challenge. On long flat runways with significant crosswind/downwind components a wheeler is the preferred option, not so much from a landing distance pov but a control pov. Chimbu after lunch being a classic example...three pointing in a 15kt quartering tailwind was a recipe for a fright...at least.

At places like Manari, Munumu, Kagi, Efogi most of the Bips and Mins and a gadzillion other places a full stall three pointer was the better option...sometimes the only option.

Virtually all the pilots I trained in the 185 in PNG had no tailwheel experience at all before. I did their initial tailwheel endorsements in the 185. Without exception they all struggled with wheeler landings but could do reasonable three pointers after a few hrs. Also without exception they all could rescue a badly bounced wheeler into a three pointer :ok: I let them all go solo in the bush, after significant ICUS, only being able to reliably three point...they all subsequently got the hang of wheelers and none ever crashed:ok: :ok:

I'd challenge anyone to land shorter than me in a C185...if I was still current...'full stall' three pointer would beat a wheeler in calm conditions anytime. Yes you can brake tail up in a 185 but it takes carefull application of brakes...you can stand on them with the tail down and the wings stalled with little fear (loaded).

The sprung steel undercarriage on the 185 was infamous for good reason:E

Never in my EXTREMELY limited Dak time did I do other than wheeler landings....all 10 of em...or thereabouts;)

[7gcbc]

Chimbu,

Thats what I thought, Wheelers take more room, you're basically flying her on, and therefore coming in with a trickle over the idle.

Sprung steel U/C will hold "potential energy", and it has to go somewhere! The Dc3 in the vid has fairly "sturdy" U/c, not sure how much "potential" they would hold, for example the piper cub has lovely "solid" Oleo U/c, when you're down, your down. same as the Dh82a

I've three or four times got wheeled a sprung steel t/wheel on and honestly not known it (bitumen) as the sprung steel absorbed the touch.

I never touch the flaps on a tailwheel landing, whether it be wheeler or 3'pointer, as 185wagon said, the view over the nose has a marked tendency to change beyond all recognition when you look back up.

On short grass strips, and depending on the a/c, and if I'm confident enough , I'll try full flap, trickle of power and just touch the tailwheel before the mains, as the resultant pitch forward dumps all lift and leaves you solid on the ground.

I was at Ballina a few years ago , and the sink over the river, coupled with a nice bubbly crosswind and a lack of tree shading at the apron end gave me 2 go-arounds, in the end (after a good talking to myself on d/wind) I wheeled it on at 70-75kts, with almost full into wind stick and a good boot of opposite rudder, got the other wing down, and then promptly lost her again as i just could not keep the into wind wing down, by them I was doing only 10-15 kts when I rolled unceremonously on to the grass.

[EDIT: i'd love to see the historical TAF x-wind on that day, are these available ? ]

Anyone know the two old guys at the GA apron there ? An Ex Raaf chap called Percy (or cecil) I think , and an ex RCAF guy, had tea with them and they gave me a lift into town.

and you know what ? I'm addicted :D

[MkVIII]

Agree completely with the both of you.

I too am SORELZy addicted to things with low tails, and always will be. It's so REAL, and I am sure you know exactly what I mean.

Believe me though, you screw a landing in the Tiger, and YOU KNOW ABOUT IT! She can bite! The ONLY recourse for a bad bounced wheeler is either go around, or a trickle of power, a gentle forward nudge on the stick, and when things stabilise, 3 point her down! Attempting another wheeler will either result in another demonstration of a mechanical kangaroo, or utilisation of FAR too much runway remaining!

We used to land the Tigers, depending on wind, either VERY close to the threshold (short taxi back to "dispersal"), or if opposite runway, land it 3/4 deep down, as you were going to pull up in under 50 yards anyway, so minimise the taxi back required!

There were days when the smell of fresh cut grass, exhaust fumes, the smell of old doped linen, and the purr of a Gipsy Major would almost have you in tears of joy, doing REAL flying - seat of your pants stuff!

[7gcbc]

MkvIII,

I know what you mean :D

Tigers wonderful plane, but I think that romanticism is often worn off by the "stick-stirring" and the draught! I was checked out by an old RAF b17 pilot and he would disappear out of the wind in the front and use hand signals!!!!!!! Most of the instruments lacked stability, the ASI wavered on a tolerance of 20 Kts either way, the T Compass required a Naval degree to work out and the VSI regurarly showed 500ft +/- on approach and TO, The Inverted Gypsy also requires a full NBC suit for oil spits :uhoh: , having said that the auto carb-heat method is ingenious, wonder why that is not common in modern a/c :confused:

a delightful spin tho', 1st 1/2 turn is dreamlike , then a marked acceleration in. Embarssing to land if you forget the slats! (huh, I thought'd we'd have touched by now as you peer sideways over the nose :D )

And to be honest, the tailskid is really just there to humiliate you in a strong x-wind taxi , if it gets rutted in the ground, and there are people watching, then you'd wished the ground would swalllow you up!

But a Lovely airplane, not sure if I'd like one tho, my dream is a stampe (nightmare to maintain) or supercub. everything about a cub just feels right. :ok:

[MkVIII]

Aw c'mon, she's EASY to fly! From the most INCREDIBLY docile stall, to a totally no destructable Vne (it's an aerodynamic drag limit - it CANNOT GO FASTER, but you can still pull it out and NOT overstress it!), and the like.

I NEVER found taxiing a problem whatsoever, in any conditions. We only used a "wing walker" occasionally, to nudge us hard around corners. As I mentioned previously, all the ones I have flown have been stock standard military (except for a radio), so NO BRAKES. So, you learn how to use judicious power, aileron into the turn, and a boot of rudder. Visibility is not as bad as some say, and only need a LITTLE nose wagging.

RARELY if ever used the slats to be honest. They could make for a very soft 3 pointer, but if you flew her properly, you didn't need them, and flared into full stall at around 6 inches off terra firma (you get to know the attitude especially in relation to the cross wires between the cabane struts).

Looping them is a DREAM - I CONSTANTLY hit my own wake on the bottom after going around - a perfect loop! You could FEEL just what to do, and it became VERY instinctive when to lay in opposite rudder with power reduction to keep the loop straight over the top.

Rolls on the other hand.... OH BOY, especially a slow roll. FUGGEDABOUTIT! :p Barrel rolls not too bad though.

Stall turns are a matter of rapidity - get it NEAR vertical, then immediately boot rudder, with slight forward stick, becuase the speed washes off SO fast, you'll otherwise stall and spin. Spins are easy to recover too, since you have a LOT of control surface to play with.

Yes, the instruments are pretty useless, and the compass is best left to Spitfires, so that is why you flew them by the seat of your pants - you listened to and felt what she was doing. Very rarely did I look at instruments much, except oil pressure and altitude. And of course you kept a very watchful gaze on that fuel float in the tank in the upper wing!!!!!!!

I love the old girls.

Personally would love a go off a Bucker Jungmann or an Avro Cadet, but doubt that will eventuate. I would LOVEto have a fly of a Wackett, but that too is looking slim. Always loved the Wackett, and do not know why.

[dude65]

Quote:Van Nuys airport. I wish YMEN could be held in the same regard

I reckon that goes for a lot of GA in Australia. Archerfield is heading the way of Dodo. The owners certainly don't give a ****. Haven't flown from there since last December ,but it wouldn't surprise me if that witches hat is still sitting 1/4 of the way across taxiway Echo.

These people obviously have a great deal of pride in their airport.

[7gcbc]

True, they are fun to fly, I agree with the Loops, there was always a direct relation with my feet and the speed! I often wonder if Mr DeHavilland had designed such a perfect and consistant trim speed aircraft (left foot low speed, right foot high speed), then How'd he do it ?

Mind you, using your feet is not negotiable

Never got stuck taxiing, saw others do it though, a tight turn near a fence and rutted ground. [joking about traps for young players - The Tiger does not turn on a dime like most tailwheels with a tailwheel)

Agreed on the Instruments, best look outside and not inside.

Stall is lovely.

Sideslip is great though, you can almost do it down to the last few feet easing it off , and the wire fencing drag does not allow her to speed up to much.

Wheelers difficult tho!, Low wings made x-wind wheelers hard.

[Hudson]

7gcbc. Interesting. I instructed on Tigers in the RAAF in another life and I don't recall seeing a VSI on either instrument panel. Funny looking altimeter, but never a VSI.

[MkVIII]

That "VSI" with the mercury inside - almost an inclinometer more than a VSI.

[7gcbc]

Hudson, my mistake, I meant the RPM guage, which fluctuated quite with a mind of its own, unless you were at high rpm, then it seemed fairly stable.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Dude65 Agree mate, AF has been hammered ever since the days of MLA Kev Hooper. Looking a little deeper into this, VNY is fighting for it's own survival. It has a very powerful NIMBY group that is seriously trying to curtail useage of VNY. My bet this magnificent film has been produced to balance out the negativity.

When I was living in Morayfield, before the election in '96 we had a couple of idiots trying to get up an anti-aircaft noise group to complain about the noise of aircraft approaching BN. My house was a few nm south of the nominal approach for BURPA arrivals to 19. At this point these plane are in excess of 8000ft AND on descent power. Unless you were outside and it was aquiet morning you could not hear the jets for the ambient noise.

Governments of the day are only interested in keeping their bums warm on nice leather seats. To do this they will bend like reeds in the wind to promote whichever policy will garner the most votes. One guy wrote on another thread GA don't pay so they won't get it...more like GA vote doesn't count say they won't get it!

YMPC was saved, just!:sad:

[MkVIII]

RPM gauge was more or less useless at anything other than full throttle - and then you knew more or less it was pegged anyway!

I just used to listen to the purr, and feel the airframe vibration to tell roughly what RPM it was on the ground.

Only thing I HATED with the Tiger was when she was being difficult to start when either cold or hot. Tickle, switches off throttle wide, 2 back pulls. Switches off, throttle closed - position the prop for the pull through - switches ON, throttle set (1/4 inch cracked open), yell contact, and swing the prop. Hope like heck the Gypsy starts by the 3rd pull at least, otherwise you knew you'd have to tickle and prime her AGAIN.

One day I just about gave up (3 full start procedures by memory). But, that Gypsy had a habit of knowing when your arm was getting tired!!!!! :p

One thing NOT romantic about the Tiger - flying it in winter is bad enough, but flying it in winter through a rain shower is NOT FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cold rain, STINGING your face, with a 70 KIAS wind chill factor! BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[HSWL]

Mk V111. Fluctating RPM gauges on Tiger Moths or indeed most other light aircraft are easily rectified if you report the problem in the maintenance release and get it fixed - which very few civilian pilots ever did - the culture of which prevails to this day. Thus the myth perpetuates itself. Hey -Watch for the goddamned RPM needle - it's fluctating all over the place. Cor, thanks matey, it was doing that yesterday and the day before - bloody Tiger Moth RPM gauges - always unreliable. And so the myth is born.

[7gcbc]

dunno, Speedo was doing it, Compass was doing it(just kidding, it always read NNE), just about every other guage was doing it, I reckoned that if the RPM was doing it then it must be normal.....................

:D

Turn'n'Slip was always spot on tho' :uhoh:

[BankAngle50]

When I flew in the States and sometimes went to GA airports such as went to Opa-Locka (OFP) (Miami’s Archerfield), I was amazed at how much government support was still provided. You could even pickup the free telephone and make a free call to the FAA and speak to a real person. Remember the old briefing offices we used to have in Oz?

Its sad that, unlike the States, you get nothing back from the Feds in terms of services. Which is why we could never have such an airport here in Oz. Probably why Biz Aviation is non-exsistant is Oz as well.