RAF Redundancies ?

[Safety_Helmut]

Has anyone got any good/latest rumours on this subject ?

Safety_Helmut

[HOODED]

Tranche 1 results will be announced by end of this month with an exit date of Sept. Mainly engineers in this one as we don't need to maintain our ac as they're all so new and serviceability rates are so high!!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Understand that the first round was oversubscribed 2 to 1.:uhoh:

Rats and sinking ships??? Or perhaps the writing is on the wall.

[Aeronut]

"Understand that the first round was oversubscribed 2 to 1"


But its okay - Chief of the Air Staff says that "we must make those that remain feel like they are the winners."


I'm staying just for that

[Biggus]

I am sure I will "win" more overseas deployments to sandy places as the number of people left to fill the slots reduces BUT THE COMMITMENT DOESN'T! And the 09.39 entry in the "Where do they get this c***" thread talks about plans for an RAF of 35,000 by the next decade, more redundancies to come??


Still, it is nice to see that the new LSA caters for people who have been deployed for up to 9 years in their careers!

[Lafyar Cokov]

I don't think there will be any more redundancy, they'll achieve the 35,000 by posting another 15,000 to Iraq and Mr Brown will refuse to pay for them when they get there - they will just be missing!!!

[Safeware]

Believe that those with an exit date 2008 or before won't be in the frame, just 'natural wastage'.

[PerArdua]

I believe they will reach 41000 by suppporting everyone the way they are doing at the moment. Bring back Thatcher I need a payrise!!!!

[WorkingHard]

So with 51000 personnel currently and 474 aircraft (108 persons per aircraft) how can redundancies be achieved with so few people per airplane?

[Training Risky]

I'm sure someone in the Treasury can answer that one.:mad:

[pr00ne]

WorkingHard,

"474 aircraft"

????????????

Where do you get that figure from?

I think it's a fair whack more than that.....................

[Airdrop Charlie]

Tranche 2 is supposed to be announced 23 Mar 05 with applications in Apr. This could be the start of the floodgates, but then again we've been there before. Everyone I speak to is coinsidering their options, but few actually do anything about it. The hierarchy know that even if people want to leave, the security of income and school allowances etc mean people can't afford to.

[WorkingHard]

"Where do you get that figure from?

I think it's a fair whack more than that....................."

Well that is what is quoted by the RAF website. I did naturally exclude the gliders.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

A thread requesting rumours on a rumour website, how could I resist?

Only half a dozen rumours doing the rounds at Lyneham.

Innsworth have realised that the end of March clashes with the Easter break, and we might get some news before Easter.

The redundancy board may 'borrow' some places from Tranche 2, in the interests of minimising the pain, and to save on more paperwork.

Innsworth have received a large amount of PVR's recently. (I'm not sure if this is good or bad)

The Medical Centre at Lyneham are investigating the above average caseload of people reporting sick for 'stress'.

All the WO's that have applied for it have got it.


Just rumours, of course. One of the above rumours was started for a joke, to see how fast it would travel!

I must stop going to the Old Folks Home for lunch.

[Stan Bydike]

"Just rumours, of course. One of the above rumours was started for a joke, to see how fast it would travel!"

I guess that will be the one saying there is only half a dozen rumours doing the rounds at Lyneham :D

[Safety_Helmut]

SPHL

That was the kind of rumour I was fishing for. Rumour circulating Wyton that Fairy/DF Chiefs undersubscribed, I find that very hard to believe though.

This rumour came from a mate who's sister works with a bloke who does the garden of a chap who's mum cleans offices with a woman who also works on the checkouts at Tesco, she is married to a supplier who's brother is in the Army who lives on quarters next to someone who drinks in the mess with the Wobbly from PSF who knows somebody in PMA who knows all the gen.

So it must be true.

:\ :\ :\

Safety_Helmut

[HOODED]

Heard 80% of those in the bracket applied! Therefore the 20% who didn't are probably Fairy/DF Cheifs then! I know 2 of these who have just PVR'd anyway to go and work for BAe for what amounts to more money with their pension and without the hastle of dets/OOA Guard Cmdr etc etc. Watch out for the PVRs from all those disappointed with not getting redundancy when the 3 tranches are finished. Talk about flood gates. Still the RN boys who are taking over at two secret airbases in middle England could fill the gaps once they're trained on non maritime types!Or the Army boys could be seconded in from the Apache to fill the gaps! Heaven help us!

[FatBaldChief]

Anyone got their nice/nasty letters yet?
Rumour mongers say they have been posted out.

FatBaldandnoteligibleforredundancy:8

[Stan Bydike]

"Anyone got their nice/nasty letters yet?"

Interesting one that. I assume that peoples definitions of what is a nice letter will vary somewhat depending on their viewpoint
:D

[Safety_Helmut]

"Anyone got their nice/nasty letters yet?"

Three types of letter I suppose.

Nice Got what you applied for - Redundancy

Nasty Got compulsory redundancy - you are unwanted/unloved/useless/surplus to requirements (delete as appropriate)

Absolutely Devastating Didn't get redundancy having applied for it. (apply for next tranche)

Safety_Helmut

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Absolutely Devastatingly Nasty Got compulsory redundancy with four kids in boarding school

[FatBaldChief]

Absolutely Totally Completely Devastatingly Nasty would be turning you down and posting you to the DLO :8

[L1A2 discharged]

Due on 1 Apr, now forecast to be around 7th :mad: even redundancies are late again.

Desk types working (loose term) overtime to sort out who to move to where when the names are issued at the ed of next week.:E

[Safety_Helmut]

Desk types working (loose term)

You couldn't get much looser than that, does anybody know of a shiney who has ever done a days work ?

I take it "overtime" refers to working in the afternoons ?

:ouch:

Safety_Helmut

[HOODED]

Does this delay mean my out date won't be End Sep 05 as they give 6 months notice? This also means the money goes down as the month slip will put me into a year less to do so 3 months wages lost as my severance. Can I sue?:E

[Safety_Helmut]

HOODED

I would love to be a fly on the wall when you asked that question of your local shineys.


:\

Safety_Helmut

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

You will be witnessing HOODED being made a fool of.

He appears to have applied for redundancy without reading the DCI.

Or reading L1A2's post.

:ok:

Unless he posts on Prune when drunk, and I can't condone that.

[HOODED]

I read the DCI don't worry about that and yes it was tongue in cheek. It just beggars belief that they can't even get something as important as this right and on the published timescales. They'll be announcing the ranks and trades for the next tranche soon and maybe before those who applied on the last one find out if they got it! How stupid is that! I wonder if they'll end up with enough people of the right skills and experience to do the job at the end of it all. Thats why I applied I don't want to be there when it all crumbles completely.:(

[badger baiter]

When are we gonna kick out f@@king scribblers who keep getting my wages wrong time and time again or a$$hole scuffers who wont even do guard "because it is not their job" types or the SWOs wot the hell do they do that is of valuable service to the RAF christ a man on WO money walking round checking my bloody rucksack has a great big eagle advertising "shoot me" on it or stackers who never have the kit/ heard of the kit/ scaled for the kit/ or just plain selling the kit in Helmswell market or Drivers who cant drive / wont drive or forgot how to drive never had an MT driver in my life these are people who should go bloody useless b@stards just getting fat and lazy cant pass a fitness test sweaty gits who need a kick up the rse to get them to do co**all and then it needs done twice or more

[DP Harvey]

HOODED you are still not reading the messages. L1A2 indicated that they have delayed the announcement of the tagets for Tranche 2. Probably because they want to make sure that they do NOT make the mistake you alluded to. So, despite your opinion, they are not as stupid as you say they are....

[L1A2 discharged]

DP, well spotted. The application and selection timescales will be as previously advertised in the DCI. Hopefully there will be a slot for me to jump into. :D

[The Rocket]

Badger Baiter,

So what do YOU think about the redundancies and cutting back of engineering manpower then?

You can tell us straight, no need to hold back!!

:p :p :p :p

[paradigm shift]

In the DCI for the first Tranche the amount of Fairy Chiefs that were required for redundancy was 70.

Can anyone tell me what percentage of all the fairy chiefs this is.

I've tried guessing at this but to no accuracy.

By the way I am a Fairy Chief and Yes I am waiting for a letter.

[Safety_Helmut]

paradigm shift

The information can be found on the PMA website, can't remember exactly where, its in page which details the varying times in post across all ranks and trades.

From memory I believe there are about 700, this includes all those who have had the latest lecky update (assimilation) to learn about fuses, wires and bulbs (filaments).

Hope you get what you are after. ;)


Safety_Helmut

[badger baiter]

Look dont get me wrong if a branch is needing an overhaul then so be it however my general impression is that Eng branch do a terrific job getting what is on the ground in the air. I just hate these time wasters getting a break when skilled hard working guys a getting the chop especially if it means no reduction in workload throughout the airforce i man if they cut thousends from the RAF why not get rid of all the support staff too.

[HOODED]

Branch needing overhaul! I think the Eng trade has had enough overhaul recently, self supervision, multi skilling,lean practice. All this was a way of reducing manpower at the workface/being more efficient!! Don't know if it's just my unit but the engineers are working very hard to try and produce enough ac to meet the program. Not enough trade cover on some shifts,leave denied due to high workload/no of detachments. This is before the cuts in manpower take effect through redundancies.
I agree the blunties need a cull however, they can all take an afternoon off to go on the PI*S at the drop of a hat, the engineers can have a single shift beercall after work with the other shift invited if they can get away early - they rarely can!
Things won't get any better after the manpower cuts as workloads are due to continue to climb to record levels. Still who needs a family life? It's time to go, and if I don't get the type of letter paradigm is hoping for then PVR will follow. There comes a time when not being given the resources by our lords and masters means you can't do the job to the standard proffesional pride dictates. Sad but there are a lot of experienced engineers out there who are about to leave due to the lack of reality at the top of the RAF.

[Biggus]

First of all I am not 'having a go' at anybody! There is much talk on this thread of people leaving en mass, redundancy over subscribed, PVR applications going through the roof, etc. Now I have been in the RAF for more years than I care to remember, and have heard such talk on numerous occasions before. Usually it fails to materialise, a fact I think our lords and masters bank on. Yes, I know FRI for aircrew was bought in to improve a retention problem, but that was against a gradual decline in numbers over a period of time, as opposed to large losses in the short term.

Are we actually going to see a large outflow, either through redundancy or PVR, in the next 18 months? Alternatively will people stay in through a combination of circumstances (e.g kids at boarding school as mentioned) but be even more disillusioned than before? Or will the numbers of leavers just increase over the medium term?

[BEagle]

As far as pilots go, when even now ba are starting to offer employment to ab initio students who haven't even taken their IRs, the prospect of retaining ME pilots (without brats in boarding school) for yet more adventures in stone age aeroplanes between desert $hitholes seems rather optimistic, I would hazard....

[The Gorilla]

Biggus

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and have heard such talk on numerous occasions before. Usually it fails to materialise
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are spot on. So many times I have heard people say they would leave but they never did. Lord knows I said it myself for a number of years before taking the plunge. Management know that in most cases it is an idle threat.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are we actually going to see a large outflow, either through redundancy or PVR, in the next 18 months?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my view, absolutely not. People in the RAF become slowly institutionalised over the years making an exit seem much harder than it really is. Most of the guys and gals will continue plodding on as they have done. Perhaps morale will get lower and whingeing will increase. The bottom line is the MOD will continue to dump on people in order to get the Governments job done and there are always people willing to be dumped on in return for promises of jam tomorrow. That’s the way it has always been and I see no agenda for change in the medium term.

Beagle

Since there is an apparent large surplus of ME pilots then I suspect that was always going to be that way.

[HOODED]

---------------------------------------------------
Are we actually going to see a large outflow, either through redundancy or PVR, in the next 18 months?
----------------------------------------------------

Yes we are! 1000s going through redundancy is a large outflow in anyones book. PVRs will increase with the dissillusioned who don't get it going anyway! It happened on the last lot of redundancy and it'll happen again.
I'm sure this has been taken into account, what hasn't is the efect that cutting through the bone this time will have. I for one have never seen the levels of dissalusionment in the 25+ years in the mob thats arround today. Granted not everyone who complains will leave but as those left behind see comitments failing to reduce and less and less available to do the OOA, Guard, detachments etc, then we will see what happens. I'd bet FRI will return as the aircrew see monthly hours reduce not just through cost of fuel cuts but through less serviceable ac available. Cuts in spares and Eng manpower will have an effect in the end.

[Safety_Helmut]

Are we actually going to see a large outflow, either through redundancy or PVR, in the next 18 months?

I didn't study rocket science at school, but reducing the RAF by about 8000ish (around 15%) seems like a pretty large outflow/no inflow will be happening over the next 2-3 years. Whatever way you look at things, these are pretty substantial numbers.

However, I do agree that there will be the usual crowd who talk a lot about it, but are quite happy sitting fat, dumb and happy in the RAF.

The Gorilla - People in the RAF become slowly institutionalised over the years making an exit seem much harder than it really is

HOODED - I for one have never seen the levels of dissalusionment in the 25+ years in the mob

So institutionalised but disillusioned, we will find out what happens over the next couple of years. But i'm with you on this one HOODED.

Safety_Helmut :(

[Biggus]

Sorry, my last post was badly phrased, not for the first time, or probably the last. I will try better here.

I am well aware of an 8,000 reduction in a force of 51,000 odd, including about 2,700 redundancies. So there is obviously a large enforced outflow in the next couple of years. What I was referring to, which most replies since have fortunately picked up on, was whether all this talk of people being hacked off and leaving anyway, even if they don't get the redundancy package, is actually likely to happen. Is it all talk. Is it comments by one or two on pprune, or a genuine feeling held by large numbers of serving personnel? Hope that clears up my point!!


And before anyone asks, I am not a journo, neither am I fishing!!

[YellowBelly]

For info on the number of applicants for 'Tranche One':

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmdfence/45/45we17.htm

"Invitations for the first tranche of around 450 were invited in December 2004 with applicants set to leave the service by 30 September 2005 and non-applicants by 31 March 2006. The closing date for applications was 28 January 2005 and there were 1,160 applications for the 450 places; most of the unsuccessful applicants will remain eligible to apply for the next tranche."

[JessTheDog]

I can cheerfully confirm to all, whether journos or not - I don't care!

1. After being briefed by the CO last year on the cutbacks, the atmosphere was one of angry sullen resentment and distrust.

2. The RAF is grossly overstretched. Not just stretched or even overstretched. Grossly overstretched. Try this for example - a serving husband and wife being pinged for out-of-area detachments within months of each other. No wonder people wish to leave in droves!

3. The MoD is bankrupt as a result of adopting the ridiculous resourse accounting budget system. This is the reasoning behind cutbacks such as the ridiculous decisions taken, for example to bin the FA2 and to withdraw the Jaguar early with no replacement capabilities.

[Safeware]

Ah good old RAB, remember all the posters announcing his arrival?

I've heard that those in da management who had wholly embraced it are now realising that they didn't have a clue about the effects

sw

[Safety_Helmut]

YellowBelly

Just a shame they couldn't make such information easily available to those who matter ?

JessTheDog

Bankrupt ? - just money, or something else more worrying ?

Safeware

RAB - I wonder if the @rsehole who introduced that still works in the MoD ?

Safety_Helmut

Not long now - :ok:

[16 blades]

Will all those who have been making noises about leaving actually put their money where their mouths are??

Well, we have an (alleged) surplus of ME pilots (who still manage to work their collective nuts off), the FRI is gone, and the airlines are recruiting heavily.

Go figure.

If the exodus does happen, we will lose a huge chunk of our experience base, since first tourist captains are struggling to make the requisite hours for Military Accreditation (whilst working their nuts off - how does that work? not enough flying, too much bullsh1t, perhaps).

Those who leave will be second and maybe third tourists (if there is still such a thing), leaving behind folks who will struggle for some time yet to build a good experience base.

But then again, hasn't this all happened before??

16B

[Roland Pulfrew]

For those that don't know Resource Accounting and Budgeting (RAB) is not an MOD inspired or wanted method of accounting. This was a government decision that was foisted upon (all?) government departments. I once had it explained to me that every 10 years or so the accountancy world come up with a new way of doing business. Why? Well if "they" invent a new "system" and then sell it to the world, the world needs your financial help to understand it, so "you" hire accountants. After a few years "you" get good at it and no longer need accountants as advisors, so "they" invent a new way of doing business, so "you" need to hire accountants to understand the new system. After a few years "you" get good at it and no longer need............:ugh: :yuk:

Remember NMS in the late 80's? Then came somthing else in the 90's (PFI?) and now this RAB rubbish in the naughties! In about 2014 we can expect another new way of doing business!! I vote for cash. Works every time:ok: .

[Safety_Helmut]

Someone once told me that he believed that most new ideas/schemes/initiatives originate on trains. Yes, that's right, trains. His theory being that some senior officer would be travelling home from a meeting after a few sherbets, find some new management handbook abandoned on said train, read it through bleary eyes and then try to implement the ideas when he got back to work and pass them off as his own. :ok:

[gebaloo]

YellowBelly -
"Invitations for the first tranche of around 450 were invited in December 2004 with applicants set to leave the service by 30 September 2005 and non-applicants by 31 March 2006. The closing date for applications was 28 January 2005 and there were 1,160 applications for the 450 places; most of the unsuccessful applicants will remain eligible to apply for the next tranche."


Well here is one 25 year served, peed-off airman that will try for a second bite given the chance... from within an IPT that seems intent on stabbing itself in the back, from the top down!
Good luck everyone! :ok:

[Biggus]

A more interesting, and relevant, figure would be that number of 1,160 applicants expressed as a percentage of those actually elligible to apply!

[HOODED]

Biggus, I heard the figure was around 80% but I don't know how true that is.
Also have heard that those who applied for Tranche 1 will be told on Thursday 31st giving 6 months to out date. Those who were successful will get to see the Staish those who were not will get a nice you're too valuable letter! Note thats not valued but valuable.
Still if as another 25 year peed-off airman, I don't get it I can hope my rank/trade will be in tranche 2.

Gebaloo, second bite? Have you been told the result of the first then?

[Safety_Helmut]

I'm hearing that the successful applicants and the compulsories are to be told at 0800 tomorrow.

Does anyone know any different or heard either way yet ?

Safety_Helmut

[Gweedo]

The RAF redundancy note has now been published and is available on the intranet for all those interested.

[c130jbloke]

As I am currently away form the Sqn, can somebody please put up the details (especially the GD criteria ).

Many thanks,

C130JB

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

I have the Tranche 2 signal in front of me, and a quiet night in front of the telly for the football. I'm happy to answer questions via PM or on the thread.

The signal begins with the Tr 1 facts that 1100 applications were received, 510 selected....including one non-applicant!

It seems that Musicians & PTI's need not apply.

The scribblies are gettin a kickin in Tr 2

GD?

Up to
5 AVM/Air Cdre
5 Gp Capt
40 Wg Cmdr

9 WSO(N) ME and RW Sqn Ldr/JO

[Safety_Helmut]

The scribblies are gettin a kickin in Tr 2
badger baiter will be pleased then, along with most of the rest of the Air Force.

The numbers of TG1 in the next tranche are big though.

Safety_Helmut

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Tranche 2 TG1 (& 2?)

Up to

A Eng Tech
12 WO
23 FS

Heavies.............Enlisted before
90 Chf Tech.......1/4/83
190 Sgt..............1/4/86
165 Cpl..............1/4/90

Fairies/Leckies....
80 Chf Tech........1/4/84
110 Sgt...............1/4/85
80 Cpl..................1/4/80

[Biggus]

SPHLC

DTG of the signal, available to all soon?

Also is that 9 WSO(N) ME Sqn Ldr/JO and 9 RW Sqn Ldr/JO? Or 9 in total across both. I suspect you must mean the former!

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

No, the latter. The list is in table form, and the block for 'SPEC' contains

WSO(N) ME AND RW

then:-

SQN LDR/JO

22-31 Reckonable Service

Up to 9

As Gweedo says, it came on the Intranet this afternoon and the CIS Capabilties Flight have run out of inkjet cartridges.

[Pontius Navigator]

The email copy I have does not have a dtg, got it just after lunch. The recknoable service is over the age of 21.

Interestingly the split between JO and sqn ldr is the same as happened in 1973. Then the sqn ldrs redundancy could be compulsory and the flt lts was voluntary.

This time round there are no JO ATC but 10 sqn ldr ATC. Good news for those with 17-23 years service and JUST promoted on the last list. Out of the swamp and into the fire!

[L1A2 discharged]

Ar#e. No slots this time .... should have applied last time but I was looking for a slot at a unit which has since been earmarked for reduction.

Surprised that its out early though, any jafa's subscribing to this?

[c130jbloke]

Any news on on Commissioned NCA slots and criteria ? (both ALM + Eng) ?

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

(3rd PM, quite popular tonight)

WSO(AE) Sqn Ldr/JO 22-31 Reckonable Up to 4

ALM JO 19-31 Reckonable Up to 2

No NCA on the list


Tranch 3.....

NCA WSOP(ALM) Possibly


I'll check back in after Englang have slaughtered the Azerbajanis

[Safety_Helmut]

SPHLC

Slaughtering, more like heavy petting so far ?

Safety_Helmut

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

That's enough dreaming from you Tranche 2 Wannabees

Us Tranche 1 Nervous Wrecks get the news around about tea-break tommorrow, Thursday.

As a triple veteran redundancy failure, I predict that the Chief Clerk already has little piles of envelopes on his desk, and your section or sqn boss will be summoned soon after first coffee to collect the bundles.

For the unsucessful applicants - last time round we got our patronising letters later that day in the internal mail. This time, we had the option of choosing our home address for the bad news.

Lunchtime drinks at the Sgts Mess anyone?

[16 blades]

No pilots in T2 then? I thought we were vastly overborne with ME pilots? And we are very short of Navs.

But then, nobody said it has to make sense I suppose....

16B

[HOODED]

Anyone get it then?

[Stan Bydike]

Posts just arrived here for the day. Nuffink:sad:

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Here at Lyneham its happened pretty much as I guessed in my previous post. The Sqn Ldr has given the lucky guys the news, and the others are expecting their patronising letter today or tommorrow.

The latest update on the intranet gives an interesting statistic:-

A Tech M (Airframes/Engines/Appos - Chf Tech/Sgt/Cpl)

695 qualified to apply
517 applied
205 got it

I make that 74% of the workforce (who qualified) applied for redundancy.

And therefore, approx 50% of the remaining workforce have just one thing on their minds for the next year - Tranche 2

That includes me, by the way. :{

It appears that the single compulsory redundancy was a high ranking medic.

[YellowBelly]

Any similar stats on WSO(N) Multi Engine??

[Stan Bydike]

Yellowbelly,

As far as I remember there was a requirement for 6 in Tranche 1. There were 13 applicants of which 12 were accepted. I believe that circa 68 Multi Engine Navs (we are all too old, and proud, to be WSOs) in the bracket.

Please correct any errors SPHL

I got my letter today and it was very strange being congratulated by all and sundry for being made (voluntarily) redundant :confused: but then again maybe thats the way it is these days :\

[HOODED]

Stan, likewise. A very strange feeling after 27 years to be going but at least I get to leave with the knowledge that I did my best despite pressure to cut corners. I feel sorry for those left behind who weren't in the bracket or can't apply for financial reasons (pension not earned etc). At least it'll get some promotion going hopefully and those left may not be too disgruntled as a result. Just hope comitments reduce in line with the decline in people. To all those looking to tranche 2. Best of luck!

[YellowBelly]

Stan B

Many thanks for the info, and my best wishes to you for the future. Also, I share your view on Nav terminology - confess I'm still not sure what we're (officially) called these days - Fly (N) or WSO(N)? Seems to change with each ACR, and then they seem to change the ACR number each year (do recall that 1369s are a thing of the past, but at least they were produced by a typist who could be monstered at the Christmas party...)

Anyway, must stop dribbling and head off to the bath chair...

YB

[L1A2 discharged]

The Tranche 2 signal states that there will be gaps produced as a result of the redundancies, but these will remain gapped until something like a steady state to prevent blockages ... (yeah, right).

Top management will consider the need to reduce outputs to avoid placing an unacceptable burden on personnel.

Worrying wording is ... consider the need .... and who is going to judge the burden.

20/20 hindsight is a mervellous thing, but with only a 50% acceptance rate probly would have not got it. Some v unhappy guys in the office today. Nice letter, but if they are so valuable why have they not been promoted? [rhetorical] :hmm:

[Stan Bydike]

HOODED,

Same to you, best of luck in the future. I bet though that no one will actually be interested in actually why we were interseted in leaving.

We have filled a stat; who will care anymore :E

[Biggus]

The actual figures for redundancy applications seem to suggest that it is mainly groundcrew trades that are keen to leave. Their applicant numbers were generally over twice that actually required. However, the aircrew applicant numbers only just met the requirement, just avoiding the need for compulsary aircrew redundancies.

So, are aircrew happier with their lot, or are they all talk and no action? (I realise there were no slots for pilots to apply for!!)

[garybaldi]

Biggus,
We are not no talk and no action. I guess the reason why so few aircrew applied for redundancy was because the target band was so narrow. Had the target field been across all age groups then the flodd gates would have truly opened!
Regards

[D-IFF_ident]

If there were any redundancies going for GD(P) in any tranche then I reckon I could name a dozen chaps who'd volunteer. The reason there were only 13/64 apps from GD(WSO) appears obvious to me...

Where else could you get a job that pays as much with your 16+ years experience as Navigator?

I certainly wouldn't leave if I was a Senior Officer WSO with a family to support and nowhere else to go.

[Stan Bydike]

Biggus and D-IFF

In fact the number of WSO applicants were over twice the initial quota. 6 were called for in Tranche 1. 13 applied, and the actual number who got it was 12. Obviously the increase has impacted on the numbers for Tranche 2.

Additionally, you don't need a job paying the same. Taking into account my pension I don't need to aim nearly so high to maintain the same standard of living.

[Biggus]

First of all I am not having a go at anyone, ...

garybaldi - the target band for tranche 2 is much broader, effectively ages 43-52. This may result in more applicants second time around.


D-IFF - I did make the point that there were no slots for pilots!! I know there are lots keen to go.


Stan Bydike - Tranche 1 looked for 6 WSO(N) and 5 WSO(AE). The figures you have seen, with a total of 12 getting redundancy, are total WSO numbers, i.e Nav and AEO combined. Therefore there was only one more slot than originally forecast.


However, my point was that there seems to be greater disaffection among the groundcrew trades....

[Stan Bydike]

Biggus,

I stand corrected.

[paradigm shift]

Picture the scene...a far flung corner of the Empire where "Dubbya" is considered a god!

So there I was last Thursday waiting for the phone to ring, in the expectation that If I had been suceesful in my application for redundancy someone might call and say "Chief, Pls come to my Office".

No such phone call and so....Its tranche 2 or even 3 for me.

But today when I asked my "senior service" boss to sign a leave pass for 3 days next week....he said" we need to talk"

Armed with the FEDEX envelope, he had been carrying for 30 mins before, we entered an office and he declared to me....

" I have never done this before"....scary...locked in an office with a WAFU and methinks he's going to kiss me.....when he say's....

"Chief...youve got redundancy!"

Deep joy.....nearly as good as winning the Grand Slam (thats my cover blown now!)

So "Hooded" and Safety Helmut"...I have the honour to say I am now in the same boat as you guys.

A week late...but who cares.

26 years, Unrepeatable experiences...but now time to go.

[YellowBelly]

PS

Glad you got what you wanted - but why were you informed a week late?

[HOODED]

Pleased for u mate. Being told a week late is a bit out of order though.That must have been a week of dissappointment. Still god bless the Navy, at least they got round to telling you eventually!

[Safety_Helmut]

paradigm shift
So "Hooded" and Safety Helmut"...I have the honour to say I am now in the same boat as you guys.
Safety_Helmut did not get what he wanted and is turning green with envy.

Safety_Helmut :sad:

[lineslime]

I think LEAN has something to do with the high numbers of ground trades that applied for redundancy, I know that if I was able to apply I would have. Guess I will have to grin and bear it, break out the KY as it may make the next shafting a little less painfull.:ooh:

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Safety Helmut

Perhaps we should start a Non-Redundancy thread for us 'winners'

It was nice to see the 'Investors In People' logo on the letters.

Just what exactly does a company have to do to qualify for the IiP award? Is it reviewed?


lineslime

I have seen some of the figures for the Rapid Improvement Event 2 which followed the Value Stream Analysis...etc etc. :yuk: They don't look very good. More later, over on the Lyneham Engineering thread.

[lineslime]

SPHL

Hope you get lucky next time around as I think you were wanting it this time. Looking forward to see what bolarks RIE2 (the revenge) throws up, although FLECS is looking good.

[Grimweasel]

Slightly off topic but I see that Burridge presided over the End of Air Engineer training in the RAF dinner at Cranwell last night...
The demise of a trade in whole it would now seem? My question is how on earth does the RAF train future Air Eng that may be needed through attrition and natural wastage within the trade. Does some WSOp get a quick retrade if the need arises?

[The Gorilla]

Air Eng training has finished so therefore no further candidates can become Air Engineers. The powers that be have thrown the dice and are now saying they have enough for all future needs..

Sir Brian's speech was excellent and I indeed pay compliments to his speech writer!! Well done and you clearly have a literary career ahead of you..

:O

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Not my dept, not my business, and no offence, but there are at least 4 ways of crisis managing any shortage of Air Eng's

1. Offer short term contracts to qualified Auzzies & Kiwis - already been done, can be done again.
2. Offer fast track to Ground Engineers - tried in 1999, no takers.
3. Auxillary Air Eng's - already have one at Lyneham, and several Aux Loadies, Navs & Pilots.
4. Make it worth your while to stay in, and stay longer.

Wrong thread anyway.

[lineslime]

The way things are going I think the groung crew will be made up of auxilliary techies soon, if not thanks to redundancy then i'm sure by PVR.

[paradigm shift]

Quote:

"Safety_Helmut did not get what he wanted and is turning green with envy."

__________________________________________________

Apologies / commiserations mate.....Good Luck with T2.

__________________________________________________

PS

I wonder if there are any fellow Overseas chaps in the forum who have received the big "R".

Does the exit date of 30 Sep 2005 apply rigidly to them or is there any flexibility in this date.

Having to pack up and move back to Blighty does take time.

[Stan Bydike]

paradigm shift,

I believe it was all covered in the DCI.

[monkeybumhead]

Happy times at Lyneham as many of those who weren't accepted 1st time round again are going to try again, and many who weren't eligable then but will be for t2 are filling out foms as I type. What a cheery world we live in.

SPHLC better luck this time round.:}

[paradigm shift]

Has anyone any knowledge or info regarding a rumour I heared of today.

Here is a snipet from an Email I got today from a mate:

"He thinks that if you take redundancy and then apply for a MOD job you have to pay back some of the Special Capital Payment in His case, It was £13 000 out of a redundancy payment of £28 000. "


Can any one help?

How big is the Paradigm Shift

[Stan Bydike]

paradigm shift

It is not a rumour.

From the DCI, I paraphrase, if you start with the Civil Service within 2 years of redundancy then you will have to repay. The formula is

Refund = (1-A/24) x 2B/3

where: A = number of complete months elapsed since redundancy and

B= The Annual Rate of Salary (excluding London Weighting) on appointment

So for example if you started a Civil service job paying 21k immediately on redundancy then the payback would be 14k. If you started 12 months after redundancy, payback would be 7k

Hope that explains it.