FlyBe Pay Deal 2005.

[Smokie]

The Ballots have just gone out to the BALPA members to vote on this proposal.
This proposal only brings us up to the year 2000 salaries of the rest of the industry, so we have a fair way to go yet.

In years gone by this would have been a reasonably good deal.
However, in view of the current situation and the mess we are in, we have a Golden Opportunity to say NO.

"Oliver" could well return from the table with a Full Bowl.

I urge every member to e-mail their suggestions /proposals to the Company Councils. We could certainly be surprised if we stood our ground like Virgin did a while ago.

This is an unrivaled opportunity that is unlikely to repeat it's self.
If you Vote yes, then you only have your selves to blame.

Your thoughts Ladies and Gentlemen please.:ok:

[CaptainProp]

So, what are the terms of the deal?

[146whisperjet]

Smokie

You are 100% correct.
We have never been in a stronger position and if we do not turn this offer down we are unlikely to ever get the opportunity again from such strength.
Vote No and lets get a decent reward for our endeavours for once!

[Waveman]

Anyone know what percentage of Flybe pilots are BALPA members? I heard it was around 45% but someone was trying to tell me it was down to a third with all the resignations (from both the company and BALPA) and new guys not signed up yet. Wonder what the IPA/IPF membership is?

[Smokie]

I have been around a few of the bases over the last few days and the "Word on the Street" is NO!

I am very concerned at the moment about the various "Deals" being offered to some Pilots (Captains and First Officers) to reconsider their positions regarding their start dates with their new employers.

Some have been offered "Contract Captain's Per Diem," even though they are First Officers; to delay their start dates to work for a few more days prior to joining their new airline.

0thers have been enticed back and pursuaded to either withdraw their notice period or to jack in the the course they have already started.

You can not blame them if the offer is too good to refuse.
This begs the questions:-

What if we all handed in our notice?
Why are we not all being treated equally?
Why are we in this mess in the first place?
Why should anyone work for a normal day off payment when this sort of "Deal" is available to others who have decided to jump ship?
What does this say about how our company treat those that have been loyal and stay through thick and thin ?

"Word on the Street" is we are now looking at, at least double figures to go some way to redress the balance.
Some of the company Stalwarts are now prepared for industrial action.

Let the Games Begin.............:ok:

[Nil further]

Be warned Smokie

Seen this recently in the big orange , lots of people talk the talk , very very few will walk the walk .


Regards
NF

[Smokie]

So it appears that the Rumour is in fact true.
A First Officer who has left the Company has been
"Re employed "on a Contract Deal for a couple of days prior to joining his new Company.

Good on ya mate!

However, I hope everyone else who is asked to work a day off only accepts on the understanding that they are equally remunerated.








Lites blue touch paper, stands well back!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Skott]

So what are the T&C as of now?
Why have so many people left?
How would a normal schedule look like?

Is it Direct that is handling the things for Flybe?

[matzpenetration]

As RAFAT has already posted, air your views on the Flyingbe forum.

Discussing this on Pprune will not help the situation, as those who do support the Flybe pilots cause can do nothing constructive to help. Those that don't just gain ammunition to post juvenile comments in the hope of encouraging a reaction.

[Megaton]

Post on FlyingBE for all to read? At least, pprune gurantees you as much anonymity as you wish.

[Smokie]

Hmmmmm......Reckon both you guys are "Da Management".

Why not let everyone share in our Misery?

All the other Carriers do!:D

[cruise pilot]

Smokie,

You seem to be the person to ask.

I am about to accept an invitation to work during my leave in the next few weeks at Flybe.

Any idea what the company paid that F/O per working day b4 he legged it. Because I sure as hell won't accept anything less.

Time to make some money me thinks

[notac]

Allegedly he was more or less able to state his price, my understanding it was Capt contract rates at around £350 per day for working as a f/o.

[er82]

excellent! I have a few leave days before i leg it off to another company - might make a few bob if i can!

[10002level]

Could someone please post here the payscale and base(s) for the flybe Beoing 737s. Thanks in advance.

[flybe.com]

10002 - There isn't one. The aircraft are operated by Astraeus, and although a few flybe pilots have been 'detached' to Astraeus for 18 months to supplement their numbers, they are entirely under Astraeus' control during that period, which includes pay.

[10002level]

Thanks for your reply. Astraeus would be a big drop from my current salary.

[Snigs]

I hear that the pay deal has been rejected by the members, so what now for the CC??

[Megaton]

As usual, grapevine more efficient than official company channels.,

[notac]

If 5% has been rejected what is a realistic figure to be aiming for?

I would suggest firstly we push for a re write of the scheduling agreement, this time make it workable and water tight in its wording unlike the curretn worthless edition.

As the cabin crew are receiving a 30% pay rise this month why not put forward a figure of around 20%?

[Nil further]

The much lauded return to profitability must be under serious threat with the RJ / wet lease fiasco , the cabin crews 30% and a proposed 20% for pilots .

As Smokie says "interesting times ahead"

[R3Hard]

I hear that Jersey European are looking at getting their own 737NGs or maybe 319s, anybody confirm or deny?? If so what are the chances of being based at EGTE, when i knew the 360 guys there it was generally the favoured few and management types.

I assume that Flystar are only sub contracting for a year or two? Also i hope that the opted out Flybes are getting salaries unlike the usual astraeus con of getting their F/O's to pay for the priviledge thereby undermining everyones T's +c's

:p

[Smokie]

So getting back to the original thread.

The deal has been rejected, albeit by a slim majority but a majority it is.

For those of you who have now had the luxury ( or not ) of seeing your seniorty, Place/Number, increase by a 100 or more. Don't be fooled. Don't forget:.................

"Empowered Management" is "Divide & Rule"!!

The majority of the last to be suckered in saw the light and are now either Orange or Purple and Gold!!

T & C's, quality of life, better rostering, can far out weigh a crap Pay deal but when you get none of the afore mentioned what are you going to do?

Most do not have the balls to stay and fight and either Buggar off to pastures anew or try to keep their heads down..............because there are psychological contracts on offer................

LHS Q400.
RHS 146.
LHS 146.
LTC Q400.
LTC146.
TRI/TRE/IRE....

Yes, you can jump the Queue!
But we'll post you here there and everywhere.......eh! R.D.?

Hmmmmmm...... Seniority? don't think that word is in the Company Mannual!
Hmmm...Make a new post for myself (You Know who you are)

FACT.
Oh! just before you go to MONARCH, would please consider working the last 2 days "After your notice" We will pay you DOUBLE CONTRACT CAPTAINS SALARY to sit in tne RHS which you are only qualified for anway!! FACT.

What deal are you going to ask your CC members for?

5%? I don't think so!

There is more than one way to skin a cat..... or a RAT, as the case may be.





Lites Blue touch paper..............................

[Flying Fiona]

A meeting was held yesterday and the Ops director has flatly refused any increase on the original offer of 5%.

He has offered a few consessions for nite stops and extension of a duty period but that is it.

Stand together chaps and vote NO. If you vote for the new offer DO NOT MOAN ABOUT IT.

This is probably your last chance for an improved offer.

The company is making money hand over fist and screwing its employees in the process. I say again VOTE NO..

[beauport potato man]

FF

i quite agree with your sentiments towards a NO VOTE - my only problem rests with the minority of spineless people within the company.

The vote (if i remember correctly) was 51.8% NO..... therefore not a massive amount of people to sway in order to get the next vote through.

I'm sure that the majority of our pilots feel strongly about this pay deal - but that doesn't always transparent to the vote.

Here's hoping eh?

BPM

[Hudson Bay]

Looks like 5% then. You lot have no back bone.

If I hear anybody moaning about wages and how badly you are treated, I for one will remind you what a big girls blouse you all are. Bunch of idiots.

[Smokie]

Likewise, anyone moaning about any of the afore mentioned will get no quarter from me either.

I too shall be looking after No1, just like all the spineless onanists who will eventually look after themselves, getting the required experience, only to Bugga Awf and leave us in the lurch.

Except I shall have more "sickies" to drop the rest of you spinless gits in it.( don't blame me you had your chance)
Won't do Discretion, will tech more aircraft, ensure that every thing goes in the book, etc, etc etc, gettin the picture yet?


The cat will be well and trully skinned! Your Call.

[ATIS]

Too late, I have already left :D

Smokie how do you tech more a/c. I thought an a/c was tech when its tech, or are you flying around with ADD stickers all over the bloomin place.

Also how about joining the next brigade of resigners. I was in two minds about whether to leave or not. airbus/boeing talks were like dangling carrotts in my face. It took one of the captains I was flying with to slap me about a bit so I could come to my senses. It only needed him to ask me how much BS I had heard during my time there.

I could write a movie saga on par with star wars regarding all the BS I had to listen to.

Spend your 5% wisely. A new Armani suit for the future interviews would be a suggestion.

[Smokie]

The Armarni suit seems like a fine plan.
As does going into business manufacturing little yellow stickers and floggin them to the Airlines!!!!

[beauport potato man]

Hudson Bay,

sweeping generalisation for even someone of average intelligence?

"if i hear anyone moaning about wages or how they are treated..."

"bunch of idiots"

I guess you mean EVERYONE in the pilot workforce then?

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE 300+ PILOTS?????

Are they ALL a bunch of idiots?

Even the ones who have fought/argued/ballotted for change? Those ones who will be let down by the YES voting transient pilots stopping off on their way to EasyJet.... or the others who are too spineless to ask for what they are worth?

There are plenty here who want to see change as the last vote shows. Unfortunately the small NO majority won't be too hard to swing with the promise of an extra sausage in their crew meal and 2p on their duty pay.

As for the rest they will be disappointed AGAIN at missing the chance to get what they deserve whilst the company is in a better and stronger position to deliver it.

If you post again (and please do coz i like a laugh) then at least make it a valid / sensible opinion.

BPM

[Nil further]

BPM

"stopping off on their way to easyjet "

Quite a few of your colleagues have tried and failed to get in to easyjet ,including one of the more voiciferous posters on this topic .

Remember when you make statements like "prostitue myself to a low cost " that lots of people read this website ,some of them work for ezy , some of them conduct the interviews .

The arrogant asumption that any airline is desperate for your skills and will bite your hand off the minute you apply is well wide of the mark . . . . . . many of your colleagues have found that the hard way .

You must know a load of people who have made the jump , i suggest you talk to them about the interview process and the training standards , its a different world .

NF

[Smokie]

It appears that the Flight Op's Director has selective short term Memory. He has only agreed to the 5%, none of the Extra's and flatly denies having ever mentioning them.

Yet again the words, teeth, his, through and lying, spring to mind.

[beauport potato man]

Prostituting myself to a low cost.......

Handing over more and more money in order to get what you want.....
Since arriving in the market LoCo's have almost made this an industry norm and it is now frightening the amount of money needed for someone to go thru all of the flight training AND joining a LoCo.

"An airline desperate for MY flying skills?"

No.

I'm not very good and don't fill in application forms so that comment means nothing to me.

But.... with the rate at which they (ezy etc) are expanding i betcha they are PLEASED to receive applications from people with EFIS time or 1500+ with a bit of jet. You telling me they're not?
Sure some don't get thru but that is down to the individual and the personal interview / sim etc.

As there are people reading this from the EZY intervew panel, can they answer this Q? With a highish pilot turnover at the moment and a regular delivery of a/c are you PLEASED or NOT PLEASED to receive applications from pilots with the necessary skills....?

Also i do know a few who have made the jump. All are still well and flying regularly. Not sure what your point was there - are you suggesting that their interviews, type ratings and line training was infinately harder than mine hence the "different world?"

If this is the case then how on earth do the flybe pilots going to ezy cope?
Are they all just lucky that they are so much better than the flybe standards that making to the jump to ezy is not too much of an intellectual leap?

And by "training standards" are you suggesting that other airlines (and you heavily suggest flybe in your reply) have LOW standards in their training? Not just have different SOP's or training methods, BUT ARE ACTUALLY substandard?

Well in which case i will bring this up with the relevant people at EXT because obviously we are more of a risk to the travelling public and therefore have a duty to let them know how much better ezy are and how much safer they will be travelling orange, or indeed any other LoCo.

Also judging by your ferocious reply how about you tell us about your experince then.......

BPM

[er82]

Didn't take part in the vote.... I'm one of those jumping ship.... but do feel very sorry for those who said No to the deal and got bumped by those who will accept working for peanuts.... They went after the 'stable roster' and better lifestyle over a decent pay-rise - and we all know that's just BS the management dish out and never deliver on......

Nil Further - first of all, you seem to be under the impression that BPM would actually want to go to ezy... and should therefore "talk to them about the interview process and the training standards , its a different world ." No matter what the interview process, if you've got the cash and are willing to sell your soul to the bank-manager-devil then that's a big tick in the box......
Training standards - well, it can't be that bad if over 90 flight deck have recently been accepted to other airlines after having passed sim checks. Surely if we were that bad we wouldnt have been offered jobs......

As for the arrogant assumption bit - I've re-read BPM's post and can't see the bit where he said anything about "any airline being desperate for his skills"..... that came from you... He was making a general mark that lots of pilots join flybe as a stepping stone onto other carriers..... which they do. Out of interest, did you ever work for FlyBe???

Oh, and could be just the way you've posted, but you seem to come across as being totally arrogant yourself.....


The pay-deal sucks. Guys/Gals here deserve more, but unfortunately there will always be a group who can't be bothered to fight for what they deserve, and will sit back and take an easy ride of what the management offer them....

[80ktsboth]

Couldn't agree more with BPM and er82.

But we are going off point.....

As i understand BPM's point the whole easyjet correlation was to show, in general, that pilots who use flybe as a stop gap don't care about the salary and terms and conditions and therefore vote YES. This in turn scuppers the rest of the pilot workforce into reluctantly accepting 5% even if we voted NO.

This clearly needs to change and its important to get the message through to all Balpa members to stand firm and vote NO be that through pprune, flyingbe, on the flight deck or in the pub.

Talks with the CC and management are in critical stages....as new concessions were agreed at a previous meeting then disagreed during the next conversation.

Surely there's proof i hear you cry...the minutes of the meeting......that's true but unfortunatley the minutes of the previous meeting are agreed at the beginning of the next meeting....leaving negociations in the balance.

It seems the CC rep's are in a game of poker with the management at the moment. Jim French thinks the CC are bluffing and will fold thereby accepting 5%. I also think that he believes the CC rep's don't have the balls to take negociations to dispute with Balpa.

Bullies only respond to strength...........and I for one hope the CC rep's stand firm and don't concede on any of the points they are trying to achieve.

Time to give Jim a :ouch: like Tony.

8KB

[Riker]

Slightly off topic, but I read that Flybe just purchased a bunch of Avro RJ100s from Turkish. This must be good news for a lot of the Q400 guys who were so concerned about never getting jet time before they leap for Easyjet or an IT carrier.

[er82]

Nope..... They had got some RJ's, started all the training, then found out they had too much corrosion (I think). Anyway, they've gone now.

As for the Q400 drivers 'so concerned' about getting jet time - we don't need it!!!!

[ATIS]

.........Unless you aspire to join the ranks of Virgin or Emirates. I'm pretty sure they won't touch you even with a million million million hours on the Q400.

[Nil further]

BPM er82

Didnt mean to upset guys , i suffered years of bull at flybe myself . When i said there was a different world out there i meant there is a world where you are paid properly and treated as a proffessional and allowed to operate the aircraft in the way the manufacturer's intended . A world where you dont get some a**e of a jet fleet manager phoning you up and threatening the sack you if you dont fly an aircraft for technical reasons.

Training standards . Its a fact and you may not like it , smaller companies in general have different training standards from the majors . There are people flying in the left hand seat in regional airline's on turbo props who would never meet the standard required for medium /heavy jet command in a major airline. ( there are also some fantastic people who choose to be there)Out of the many hundreds of people i have flown with in both seats at this airline i have never come across anyone about whos ability i had any doubt at all . IN flybe We all know of guys who were promoted purely on the basis they had the hours and the seniority.

I spent many years on the 146 and flew it to some of the most interesting places in europe INN , LCY et all the head of training when i was there was true gent' and a great trainer . The recurrent checks though were at a different level to my current employer.

Sorry if it comes across as arrogant , the fact is many of us have worked dam hard to get out of flybe and in to something else. There is a different world out there , please come and join the party ; but dont forget youwill have to sell yourself pretty hard along the way.

Good luck to you all.

[Flying Fiona]

Conditions will never get better as long as Mike W. is there. He was pushed at Air UK and he needs pushing now. The guy has his head in the sand.

[Smokie]

I know of someone who has a certain Nail, that may be the Final one for his Coffin.:E

[LegsUpLucy]

i'm astounded that the ops management at flybe are still in thier offices,they are obviously an embarrasement to themselves and everyone else in the company,as for any credibilty of jim french's accolades they should be thrown in the bin unless he sorts out this disgraceful mess.
it will need a huge clearout in exeter before anything changes i'm afriad......

[notac]

They (the management) may not be there too much longer. If the rumours of a 3i buy out are true. The airline has never made much if any of a profit so it would be prudent to close it down and sell the assetts and hold on to the engineering branch. That is where the money is.

[Nil further]

notac

"sell the assets" . Which assets ?

there arent any , the airline doesnt own anything . Maybe the LGW slots , that about it . Dont know if they can be shown as assets on a balance sheet though .

NF

[ATIS]

So give the LGW slots to Monarch along with the next bunch of intakes from Flybe to Monarch.

Everyones happy, job well done

[er82]

They could sell my assets! After the attention they received in another thread, they could make some much-needed cash for Flybe! But then I'd be prostituting myself again, and I've done that for long enough already which is why I'm leaving!!!:p

[Raw Data]

Hey! Whats going on back at flybe then?

All sounds a bit serious, are they truly short of 146 drivers?

I might be pursuaded to leave my house by the beach and come back for a while if good deals are on offer...

So my questions are...

Are crewing still dicking everybody about?

Who is the new jet FM?

What's the HOTAC situation like?

Where does the 146 go these days?

Has BHX got a new crew room yet? If not, are the mice still there?

Any 146s in EDI?

Is SOU still the centre of the known universe?

Do we still have the same 146's?

Questions, questions... :p

How I miss the old firm! We had such fun! :E

[er82]

I'll answer as many as I can!

Are crewing still dicking everyone around?? Absolutely!
The other day, after many tech probs, they had me operating a flight to LGW and a flight to SOU. At the same time. And they couldn't see the problem with it. I'm good, but not that good!!

Jet FM - Capt Horton

HOTAC situation - nicer hotels now. Still plenty of nightstops though.

The 146 goes everywhere - all the French, Spanish and chartered routes. WIth a stop in BOH to uplift fuel for the longer flights if last summer is anything to go by!!

Haven't beeen there in ages, but I think BHX have got a new crew room.

SOU never was the centre of the universe. But it is incestuous city! Never seen a base so 'friendly' with each other!

Still the same OLD 146's. Noxious fumes, bits falling off, noisy. But at least it gets in the air, unlike the Dash which is still continually going tech.
FlyMAYbe

[Raw Data]

Hmmm is that Bob Horton? Never had much to do with him when I was there, what's he like?

Good to hear the hotels have improved, some of them were dire.

Morale? Happy/sad?

Which bases still have 146s?

Ta! I may come back to haunt you all yet.

[beauport potato man]

RD,

Bobs a lovely bloke. Had to deal with him a few times recently and found him to be understanding and honest.

Moral is still low - in my opinion. Pay deal not thru yet, many still leaving. Disruption still high, Dash's still tech.

I find it hard to be proud of working here when the airline's reputation is poor and all around you are leaving.

146 bases? JER, GCI, SOU, EXT, BHX, BHD.

BPM

[cruise pilot]

er82 you can talk coming from the channel islands. They are all at it with each other over there!!!!

[er82]

No we're not! Never had any sort of special 'friendhip' with any crew over here! We've got two crew members going out, that's it!
Compared to the goings' on in SOU, you could almost say we're celibate!! Never before have I met such a base who can link 99% of the crew together on a 'conquest' chart!!!:p

[Shagtastic]

RawData - The 'High Cost' management techniques employed by some short sighted flyBE massive continue to be paid for in sweat and fatigue by those who haven't taken up Jim French's famous invitation for those who didn't like it to leave.

'Pilot Welfare' is the new buzz word which would great if were true.

[beauport potato man]

you forgetting our snog er82?

BPM

[Whispering Giant]

Arhhhhhhhhh ER82 - Miss Whiplash i presume.....;) ;) ;)

[er82]

Sure! Everyone knows who I am..... and now WG I know your alter ego!!!

BPM - How could I forget! It was a long time ago though, and we hadn't yet joined the company. We still don't even come close to being as 'friendly' as SOU crews are to each other. Oh the stories I've heard............

[haughtney1]

Sod it........Im not gonna be forced to watch emmerdale.....Corro...or Eastenders anymore........I'll just watch this thread..and enjoy details of er82's adventures... :p :}

[er82]

Honestly- books could be written about my time here! People will miss have no-one and nothing to gossip about!
:rolleyes:

[haughtney1]

Where are you off to er82?...the big orange?..I know in 2 hours..Im off to the pub..ahh the river...the sun..the beer garden....and orange juice!! :mad: Im on an early

[er82]

No. Definitely not the big O... I'm trying to keep a low profile so that my new colleagues don't know who I am! Probably not a chance in hell of that happening, but it's worth a try...

[cruise pilot]

They'll know exactly who you are when you open your BIG gob!!!!

[er82]

Thanks very much. Nice to meet you too. Do you know me, or do you normally make such rude remarks about people you don't know?!?!?

Edited because I got rather rude. Then decided I wouldn't lower myself to your level.

[beauport potato man]

steady on cruise pilot........... that was a bit unnecessary.

hope you're not this much of a tit at monarch.

BPM

[hapzim]

He will soon be shot down if he is a tit at Monarch, BPM no worries there. :E

[cruise pilot]

UPDATE

Didn't take the Monarch job, went elsewhere.

I however was on the unfortunate receiving end of a viscious rumour which was ignited by her majesty er82.

And you lot know how fast rumours spread around. I couldn't deny anything as I was already judged as guilty.

You talk of stooping down to my level, I havn't yet stopped down to yours by giving everyone on this forum your name. I know EXACTLY who you are, and I know EXACTLY where you are going.

I also have quite a few friends where you are going. Continue your fascination of rumour spreading and it will be you that is shot down.

I acutally have never met er82, but er82 seems to know everything about me.

Enjoy your time at your new airline, but keep things to yourself that you know nothing about.

[er82]

Seriously??!?!?! I don't rumour spread. I've been on the receiving end of too many nasty rumours myself, so don't bother with it.

If you really think you've got the right person, email me, and tell me exactly what I've done.

And having re-read your post now, for the 5th time, I really have NO idea who you are.

And edited again just to say, to those that might read your post and make an assumption about the kind of person I am, please ask anyone - I am not the viscious person CP is making me out to be.
I'm upset now. :(

[beauport potato man]

not one to get involved of course.....

Cruise Pilot,

if whatever happened to you was by "rumour" then you have absolutely NO evidence of who started this little story.

All you have, i suggest, is second hand info yourself (passed on by another gossip) which ONLY YOU are judging to be true.

You stated you'd never met er82, therefore how can you know the truth?? You asked her?

NO.

Never listen to playground gossip, and more importantly NEVER believe something with the conviction you are WITHOUT asking the person youself.

And as for the this "i know exactly who you are and where you're going sh1t" Grow up.

You'll be saying "i know where you live....." next.

Don't be a coward and hide behind the anonimity. Enable your PM's and explain to her what you mean.
You now owe her that considering you have brought this onto a public forum.

And as for you coming back and saying "you know where i live too..." then fantastic. I'll post my address up here if you want coz i couldn't give a monkeys.

Obviously Monarch or whereever you are now weren't checking mental ages when they assessed you.

And this post has got WAY off the flybe pay deal subject and i suggest a moderator either close it or, in some other way pull it back to topic.

Rant over.

Thank you.

BPM

[LegsUpLucy]

ER82,we love your posts darlink' keep them coming......

Cuise pilot,my heel will go in your balls if you slag off anymore posts...


Carrying on with Flybe pay2005:

I heard a rumour that Flybe are going to harmonise 146/Q400 pay is this correct??

[Nil further]

And these guys are flying innocent members of the public around in the back ! ! !

[flybe.com]

Legsup - that was the plan last year, which aimed to equalize the pay over a 2-3 year period to solve certain issues. However, the plan caused concern amongst members of our jet fleet, so it was scrapped.

[MOR]

Quite right too. :}

[ATIS]

Guys hows life at Flybe at the moment, especially now that we are in the summer season.

With the large intake that they have had, have things improved. I know that pay was always a stumbling point, but have the conditions improved.

It was quite a mess when I left. Carry on working hard guys.

[er82]

And apparently a disruption pay will be paid for extra sectors, APART from those that are due to tech a/c anywhere in the company, and weather. So seeing as 99% of extra sectors are due to tech a/c, the company will get away without paying!

[Megaton]

The "new, improved" pay deal offers nothing. The exodus will continue and the hidden costs behind poor retention will escalate. Save to spend measures!

[flybe.com]

ATIS - Unfortunately the large number of new entrants (Capt & F/O) appears only to have decreased the despatch reliability of the DHC8 in line with the decrease in the overall level of experience on the fleet.

Pay aside, Ham Phisted hits the nail pretty squarely on the head, the overall operational culture is weighted heavily against crews, with apparently no recognition whatsoever of the heavy cost of a high crew turnover. New joiners are becoming bitter quickly, and the bond is no longer considered a hurdle to moving on within months of joining.

The 'conflict of interest' that is causing most of the problems still remains, so in short ATIS - still quite a mess!

[Whispermode]

er82, your comments about disruption etc are incorrect. Please don't start setting hares going on subjects that you are not full acquainted with, its not helpful.

[flybe.com]

H - I have to agree that Whispermode is correct about your disruption facts.

Quick - edit/delete your post! :ok:

[er82]

Why are they incorrect??
If you're going on about the disruption payments, I said that was a rumour, so can leave it on here.

If you're going on about disrupted lifestyles, I think I am correct, so I'll leave it on here as well.
Want some examples?!?! I have lots. So do 90% of the workforce.

Subjects I'm not fully acquainted with?!?! I think I am. Thank you very much.

[Smokie]

So! the next round of Balloting is about to get under way.
I shall of course be voting A BIG NO Again.

This "New deal" is still full of holes and virtually NO IMPROVEMENT on the last for the majority of the guys on the line.

I urge every body to be patient and stick it out a bit longer.

To all you young ( and not so young) tyros who are itching to get away to pastures anew, best of luck to all of you. I know the Emb 195 is not going to be everybodies cup of tea.

But please think of your colleagues whom you leave behind.
A lot of us are reasonably happy with our locations and there are things to consider like your kids schooling and other Familiy comittments etc, when trying to make a judgement call on whether to jump ship or not.

At least, as a very firm middle digit to the company before you GO.................................VOTE NO....VOTE NO....VOTE NO!!!!

[Smokie]

Can I take it then that most of you have voted with your feet and are now part of the infamous 90 Plus?

[dv8]

Give it a rest Smoke
The silent majority are happy with Flybe
Yes its not perfect but what is?

[Smokie]

dv8,
So how come everyone I fly with and meet in the crew rooms are still whinging like hell?:hmm:

[MOR]

Because they are pilots!

[Smokie]

Well you all got what you asked for.
No doubt the spinless whingeing will continue.

YOU ALL HAD YOUR CHANCE AND BLEW IT!!:mad: :yuk: