i hate osl

[Flathatter]

Why do OSL controllers do such a g**f****d*** sh**a** lousy job at moving traffic, while their cousins in cph are first class and hyper efficient?

[Legs11]

The hint is in the name....oh slow

[Bengt Engel]

So...what kind of equipment do they have? I know arlanda is even slower than oslo (mostly due environmental) but they have stone age screens....getting the new one's tomorrow me thinks...

CPH is friggin awesome, but sometimes its a little bit to tight and you have to go around...:E ;)

BE.

[LN-ATC]

Flathatter,

Do you mind providing some details? Are we talking about GND/TWR, ARR/DEP or ACC?

(Just for the record, I'm not (yet?) an OSL controller! ;) )

[M609]

It's not down to the retarded SID/STAR system regarding noise, the locked radar pattern (again, noise), and longer required spacing on final, by any chance?

Personally, i think the lack of automated arrival manager can play a part in the equation as well. (The one at CPH is very good)

And no, not a controller at OSL eighter..... :\

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Controllers at OSL - you have my very, very deepest sympathy if you have to work with people like flathatter.

[Flathatter]

So HD, you spend a lot of time flying into osl?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Flathatter - No, but I abhor the way you have chosen to shout your mouth off in public against ATC staff. Controllers do NOT provide a bad service for fun; they must have problems. May I respectfully suggest that you discuss the matter with the ATC authority responsible?

[Bengt Engel]

do you guys (controllers) have some kind of exchange programs or some similar thing?

IMHO, some people in high places need to visit with smoothly operating controls...

cant just blame the controllers...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Any pilot who wishes to visit an ATC Unit would probably be welcomed with open arms - such an event is so incredibly rare (certainly at London) that the controllers would probably fall off their chairs in amazement!

Just telephone the ATC Supervisor and see if you can visit...

[Gonzo]

So Flathatter, you spent a lot of time controlling at OSL?

[Flathatter]

No, and your point is...?

[Spuds McKenzie]

The point is that you shouldn't judge the quality of an ATC unit unless you have a very good knowledge of the conditions they have to work in.
In general, the quality of service of ATC depends highly on circumstances (staffing, technical, political) they only have limited influence on, if at all.

[LN-ATC]

Flathatter,

We are standing by for the full story, ...when you are finished with your single-sentence replies, that is. Take your time, no speed restrictions! :rolleyes:

[M609]

And today, I spotted a link to this (http://www.luftfartstilsynet.no/applications/system/publish/view/showobject.asp?infoobjectid=1003127) on natca.no (sorry, members section only), for the non scandi readers, it's new noise abatement procedures for OSL

Basically, if implemented (to be decided)

-No more visual approaches
-Higher MVA, with associated longer finals
-Introduction of mandatory departure corridores (which will reduce the departure rate, due to no provision to give divering tracks for aircraft below 4-5000ft after departure)
-No intersection take off south of B7 on RWY 19L

Good thing:

Introduction of mixed operations regarding arrival/departure runways during daytime.

Some time ago, personell from NATS reviewed the APP sectors at Oslo ATCC, and classed them to be "highly overloaded". This will but more strain on the collauges down there, and they are planning to reduce staff......

[M609]

Any specifics FH? We are waiting, and is there a real issue, talk to your companys chief pilot, and get them to send a complaint!

If there is room for improvement, I'm sure the collauges would concider any indeas the customers might have! :cool:

[Nick Figaretto]

The problem is (presumably) not the ATC controllers themselves, but the regulations which they have to work according to. There has been a lot of fuss about noise in the Gardermoen area from the time that the airport was built, and it's all about politics.

The noise abatement info on OSL states for example that "Pilots are urged to fly RNAV tracks on all SID's out of OSL, as this proves to give the best resultsin a very noise sensitive area".

Foreign pilots, who are used to flying over the densly populated areas surrounding most major airports in the world, must laugh their heads off when they arrive at OSL only to discover that the airport lies on the countryside, only surrounded by forests, farms, fields and a few small villages.

In my opinion the noise abatement procedures at OSL are a joke. The effect of the NAP-procedures is only that the arriving and departing aircraft at OSL burns off thousands of tonnes of fuel extra per year, just to please some local politicians.

[Nick Figaretto]

Check out the densely populated area around OSL:

http://www.luftfartstilsynet.no/Internettarkiv/bilder/OSL-korridorer.gif

These are the departure sectors at OSL due to noise abatement.

[Ozzlo]

Why do OSL controllers do such a g**f****d*** sh**a** lousy job at moving traffic, while their cousins in cph are first class and hyper efficient?- Work Situation:
Budget cuts in Avinor (the norwegian ATS provider), where the ATC-Center in Oslo is in the progress of beeing shut down and moved to the west coast of norway. This has of course an noticable effect on human factors in the environment.

- Staff shortage:
Lack of personell generates flow from time to time, and Avinor is planning to cut even further. This kind gift of appreciation to all the extra hours and effort the controllers has sacrifised over the years is packed with uncertainty and frustration.

- Approach Manager:
Lack of a simple computer, which have been promised us from 1996. The calculation-tasks of an automated manager is instead delegated to the APP-Planner, which normally is open only 3hrs a day. (due to staff shortage..)

- SID/STAR system:
We are still waiting to get our new and more efficient system implemented, but this requires the Approach Manager.

- Workload:
As mentioned, we have TMA-sectors considered at traffic peaks to be at severe overload with mixed ARR/DEP conflicts. Naturally this could downgrade the qualitylevel of the service provided to our customers on behalf of the safety. A departure-workstation would be a great relief, but then again, this requires of course the new traffic-system.

- Final spaceing:
As opposed to other places, 3NM is the minimum spaceing delivered from Director to Tower at touchdown at OSL. Normally this should be at 4NM final. This complicates the speed-control timing. And for many reasons we often need to operate with different day to day spaceings. Btw., have anyone seen any high-speed rwy-exit's at OSL?

- Speed Restrictions:
In our Charlie-airspace we have 250kts below FL100, even for departures. Some people think that this will make the noise dissapear form the sensitive areas more quickly, and all the TCAS-encounters does not even count in this matter. In stead, it has actually been proposed to extended the vertikal separation in these areas to 2000FT.

- Snow and fog:
I sincerly belive that we have more of that white powder and other freezing stuff than for example at CPH. Naturally this effects the traffic-flow capacity during 6 months of the year. And when the whole long rock is naked, a tiny little dot is likely to be covering just the premises of the landing-strips.

- Radar equipment:
We actually had to close the airport this winter du to failure on one of the Surface Movement Radar channels during LVP. Also the TMA-radars have been unstable in periods, which then requires extended separation.

- NAP:
No, controllers dont't make the stupid rules, and it's almost like we need to take an effort to bend them, just to keep all the fuzz on a bearable level.

Well that's some of the bugs we hava at OSL. I'll guess some :mad: here is also most likely unaware of the fact that OSL in four of the last succsessive five years, still is on top of AEA'a statistics of punctuality.

With regards from an oslo-approach controller.

[dick badcock]

Nice reply, oslo controller.

I agree, the "high" speed turnoffs at OSL must be the standing joke at airport planning conventions (if they exist!). Too bad they didn't use the MUC runway designs (airport similar in layout). Did any aircraft slide off the taxiways this past winter?

[Jerricho]

Excellent response Ozzlo.

So Flathatter, care to tell us who you fly for :rolleyes: