Emirates Latest Fleet Newsletter

[Dissapointed]

In the recent fleet news, Chris Peet stated, with regard to the new bidding system, that "To some of you this may be a welcome step forward, to others the reverse may be true."

Could we please start to email Mr. Peet and tell him of the mess he has created? In a year I have yet to meet those pilots who find it a welcome step forward.

email him now and let him know how tired and unhappy we really are and how it is affecting our family lives. Also ask why there are still manual insertion of reserve days?

[email protected]

As for the rest of the rhetoric.... :yuk:

[Global Nomad]

.....and you will achieve?

[quarefellah]

...two years of not getting profit share and your command delayed???

Forgive my cynicism but this lot will do what they want, when they want and still dress it up like it's to our benefit. You want to change Emirates? LEAVE!!. It's the only thing they'll understand.

[Payscale]

I totally agree...
If you dont like EK...leave. After all, we will all leave sooner or later. There are thousands of pilots that want to come here. EK salary may not be much in your or my country, but for a pilot from a less expensive country its a fortune!
Dont put your hopes up for a mega payrise..aint coming if you ask me.

[SecurID]

I have to say that I see both sides of the argument raised here. i.e. If you don't like it leave, or if you want to do something about it then do it.

I remember when the comapny raised the command requirement to a very unrealistic level. Enough of us put our collective voices together and who heard? None other than Sheikh Ahmed himself. Did things change? Yes, they did.

Regarding loss of profit share etc. I cannot see that the company will penalise anyone for having voiced their opinions regarding this new bidding system. I believe the originaly intent of the first post was to just show the company just how unhappy we all are with the new bidding system. At the moment they seem to think that we are split down the middle but I too have not flown with anyone who thinks it's a 'step forward.'

But with regards to the rest of the newsletter, at least they're trying, even if it is just to tell us that there are 25 pilot applications a day coming in! Back to the supply and demand argument regarding a pay rise.

[NIGHTTRAMP]

Perhaps we should have an un official pole for both Chris Peet and John Howard. Lets vote for and against the new system. As it's COST NEUTRAL they should have no problem changing things back to the old way if the overall vote is against.

Some how I think not but for the record my vote is AGAINST.

NT

[sluggums]

There was a reasonable amount of fairly interesting stuff in it this time, a nice change.

However, I thought that TCAS's front page was a load of tripe and politics:ugh:

[davidletterman]

The most interesting part about the "Dear colleague..." note was the missing information:

How many pilots have resigned, how many applicants don't come to the interview, how many selected candidates don't show up for joining, how many fatigue ASRs filed since December, etc, etc, etc....

[Yarra]

DXB=Mudguard, shiny on top sh..t underneath

[Vorsicht]

Another interesting bit that was missing was how many of the 20-25 applications per day have anywhere near our actual requirements. Not that many i would guess judging by a few of the recent recruits.

I strongly suspect that whole front page was the first installment of "why we aren't going to get a pay rise" followed closely by "why we need to be more productive" i.e more work for same money.

[Quod Boy]

Our leader is a politician,now a proven fact.

Mr Peet,is deluding himself,if he thinks his excessive "explanation" fools anyone,outside his own office,simpler to say "we do not have enough pilots".

"20-25 applicants a day"??

Really??,are they PPL,CPL,ATPL??I very much doubt the quality of applicant is anywhere near that of the last few years.

Bottom line is,pilots are leaving,perhaps not in big numbers,and unless we get more,the problem will not go away.Many FOs looking,elsewhere,and that is EKs loss.

But,unless there is a dramatic improvement,in attitude,pay and prospects,things are not going to improve,IMHO of course.

QB

[ruserious]

So to sum up TCAS's editorial,
"Consider yourself lucky you have a job, you can be easily replaced, just look at all the American carriers that are going to go broke".

Well not much new there then, weren't we hearing that exact same crap from TCK 5 years ago.

I do love to be patronized just before I go to work, thanks Alan :ok:

[AAIGUY]

Your kidding right. I have almost 6000hrs and a lot of B747 time. I have been trying and so have like 50 guys I know with similar time to get into Emirates.

There are lots of guys with lots of time and experience trying to get your job. Don't delude yourself into thinking it all low time PPLs.

[Believe Brother]

AAIGUY

Two more of 'our' jobs available as of last week, one captain and one F/O resigned. Pay your money, take your chance, and like the rest of us, 'Keep Discovering'.

By the way, was that front page just a cut and paste job from a TCK newsletter of about 3 years ago?

[Vorsicht]

BB
You could be right. They just had to remove the bit about how we are all so lucky that the US dollar is so strong, therefore we don't need a payrise.

[dunerider]

AAIGUY I am sure all your B744 time is great and I don't know why with all your experience you would want to leave your present job.
However, like all departments in EK the recruitment department are working very hard, and with a little nouse and a few emails you may be able to get an interview should you still wish after all that is written on this forum.I am sure they will get to your application as soon as they get through all the guys with 10000 hrs and 3000 hrs on A330/340/B777 and those 737's with the cool looking winglets.I imagine it has to do with being able to do a short transition.That's the way of the modern highly efficient airline.

[PITA]

Amen Dunerider,
I had over 12000, hrs on the Boeing A/C 727, 737, 757, 767 and was current on the A320 when hired at Emirates.
What ever it takes to get you thru the door of the training dept with the least cost to said Co, is what matters.

[AAIGUY]

Exactly my point Dunerider. I don't expect to hear from Emirates anytime soon. There is a crap load of qualified pilots out there. Applicants are not the PPL and CPLs that are being suggested.

[VeniVidiVici]

For all the posts by EK drivers :yuk:

:zzz: TFN. ( watch this space for some hard hitting facts soon ):ouch:

[dunerider]

Cant wait VVV your posts are always so enlightening.

[VeniVidiVici]

Phew! I enjoyed my 7 consecutive off days and then did a turnaround flight. Guess what? On the return leg during approach I went into "micro sleep", the flight and rosters have become so tiring. So as a conscientious Capt I raised an ASR. Lo & behold thereafter I was invited for tea & biscuits at the office. I ask is this fair?

Are there any other pilots who have experienced the same?

Cheers.:}

more facts to follow.....:zzz:

[White Knight]

VVV - there is a place known as the "Employee Assistance Centre" in the Al Massoud building.

They can HELP you ;)

[Shake]

VVV:

The help group you need is the one for Terminally Web Addicted Types like you or 'TWATs'...mind you, there is only so much they can do...

[jarops]

I have been reading pprune in the past months. I am still wondering: What is so wrong with EK? Some of you appreciate the JOB offered, and some of you just find bad in everything. What could be possibly so wrong with the company who employs you, pays your bills and gives you opportunity to forward on your career? I understand that there is NO AIRLINE in this world which is perfect. Emirates is a big company and having ofcourse troubles to manage the expansion. The current status of airline industry is difficult...no doubt about that. The companies do everything to stay in business. But, the bottom line is, if a person is unhappy with the current job, then there is only one thing to do...change the scenery. So, please...answer to me, any of you EK pilots, what is possibly so wrong with EK that makes you "hate" the company? :confused: Positive feedbacks are also very welcome.

[fatbus]

It's not near as bad as some of the neasayers would make you think.
A very small number are the most vocal.
Yes a couple or a few have left and more will, companies(normal) plan on @ 7% attrition at EK that would be @100 per year. Most of them think the grass is greener and hope things work out.
I hate flying with the guys how complain and enjoy flying with those who like it, most like it.
The industry is coming around and if things don't improve more will leave but right now they (the company) can get away with the present conditions because there just is not alot of options, trust me,not alot of options at the present time (read between the lines )

[donpizmeov]

JAROPS,

Do not think anyone hates the company. If they did, they would not be working as hard as they are to keep it working!

What they are not happy with is being lied to, and having their T&Cs changed on a whim, without any consultation! I think if the management even had the courtesy to tell us the truth about things every now and then moral would improve.

Think we are all pretty sick hearing this "hard times for industry stuff". Seems CX, SQ and EK are all about to announce record profits. EK airplanes have always been full, are always full, and I bet in the future will continue to be full. I think quite a few of the pilot group (Fatbus being one of the exceptions of course), are peeved with the company funding some of their record profit from our pockets (see other threads re pilots recent pay cut).

Is it not normal to have some concern as to how far T&Cs will continue to slide before the slide stops?

Its been said before and will be said again. EK is just another job. A whole lot better than some it would seem, and not as good as some of the others.

Don

[ekpilot]

Fatbus, I hope that you are enjoying your time here but I have yet to fly with someone who is genuinely happy. Many regret the move from their previous carriers, others were just hoping to accelerate their careers a bit. The slow down in commands is one thing, but the continual nibbling away at the contract and terms and conditions vs. the exponential rise in the cost of living here is becoming unbearable for many.

I do believe that the company have taken advantage of the global downturn and held back any chances of a better remuneration package. Our salaries and 'package' are based on a comparison with many carriers worldwide. This is totally flawed because those other carriers may have been deeply affected after the last few years of poor industry performance, yet EK has returned record profits year after year. As someone mentioned earlier in another thread, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors and you yourself say that the compnay can get away with it because of the lack of options. Now consider this, would it not have been great if the company had been honest with us all and shared its great success? Not withstanding the fact that we did get a bonus last year, a realistic salary review is long past due.

[fatbus]

read again, I did not say I was enjoying my time here and I am infact peeved with the current T/C's.

I said I enjoyed flying with the non complainers and that EK is getting away with the current T/C's.

[Mo Heekan]

Jarops,

It would really be nice if EK treated it's pilots, cabin crew, Engineers et al with some respect. The 'perceived' reality is that nobody (Middle management upwards) gives a Monkey's Doo Dah about employees in the Company. Instead they worry about keeping their jobs, saying the right thing and protecting their nice, swollen bonuses come profit share.

With record Flight & CC sickness, the lowest morale I've seen in my time here, coupled with a 5% divorce rate (@ 50 out of 1000 pilots), you can see why people are negative. It 'seems' to be all take and no give. It's not necessarily down to money; try humility & respect for starters.

An example; a recent CC I flew with went sick and she got a note from the Dr. She then received a letter in her file warning her that 'any further transgressions would be seriously dealt with'. For your info; she has NEVER been sick since she's been here. So now I am flying with CC who ARE sick, and are too scared to go to the Dr. Oh, and a CC member who now wants to cut her career short.

Does that sound right to you?

So, it's not all negative Jarops, and of course we moan. But if there is NO way to officially express the frustration we feel without being labelled a trouble maker and getting a letter on our files, it needs to be vented somewhere. PPRUNE & the Flight Deck are the perfect choices I guess.

It's a BASIC human need to be heard. If people are ignored, the proverbial will hit the fan, either at work or in relationships with those we love. Try not listening to your wife or girlfriend! You'll soon end up like the 5% here.....

[Global Nomad]

Did you get both sides of the story to ensure a balanced view regarding this CC member, or is this another one sided point of view making its way via chinese whispers?

The world would be a better place if society could achieve a 5% divorce rate, either the % is worse than that claimed or Emirates is not too bad a place for a married couple. Naturally we can also asssume that Emirates is not always the prime instigator of marriage failures.

Emirates management caring about people? I can recall a number of pilots and families that have been well looked after by the company in time of need.

As you express your anger, others must also see a balance.

[donpizmeov]

Global Nomad,

Too right. When tragedy strikes you find no better employer. It is avery long list of those who have been very well taken care of.

It would be nice though, if the same consideration could be shown in the day to day operations as well.

Don

[Mo Heekan]

GN: It was a story from a CC I got first hand. No Chinese whispers. As a line pilot, you must have come across many examples. Assuming that is, you are...

It was also meant to be an example of what negatively happens on a daily basis. I was talking about a 'perception' that pervades the Company. Nobody remembers the good stuff, which is a shame. To be balanced: I totally agree that when you have a 'personal' problem, EK management can be excellent at looking after its workers. But then again, these aren't the Managers that affect our work environment or the one's we're talking about. Don summed it up otherwise :ok:


As for 5% being a good percentage; that's great news. I'll just go and get married .... again.... :D

[BigGeordie]

I've seen the company blamed for all sorts, but to blame them for your divorce really is streaching a point!

[dunerider]

Of course it is relevant. With T&C's sharply eroded,goal posts being shifted all the time. The pressure is going to build up somewhere.Even if its putting a budget on the family it all causes problems.The 5% is only the confirmed ones what about all the other cases on the way?
I to have seen cases where management have really gone out of their way to help guys who have had tradgedy strike them and for that they need to be commended. It is now time for them to fix the day to day concerns of the work force, and we can only hope that this in some way improves morale.

[scanscanscan]

The divorce rate in the late 70's of pilots in Gulf Air and CX was said to have reached 80%.
A London divorce lawyer commented...I have never come across such a supposedly educated group of men who insist on digging their financial graves with their pricks.
With the introduction of min rest and max rostering the figures dropped, however true proffesionals managed two and real aces three divorces during their careers.

[Check 'Six']

Most airlines take care of colleagues in need!! This is not an EK only attribute. That would be the day!If a colleague is in need of assistance and they refuse to assist. So this is not something new to EK management. And I speak from experience, with this airline and my previous one.

So where were we? Aaah yes! They must catch a wake up and start treating all of us with the appropriate work ethics that is expected of a first class airline. Because I am not a second class citizen and neither are my colleagues.

Hey EK management! No need to "keep discovering" we are already here!! So listen up and pay attention to what your colleagues are telling you!

Check Six

[crewlounge]

All this talk about leaving... blah, blah, blah.... is bull****.

It's all due to the USD falling and all you fellows from Ozzieland and Eu-land are not so happy. You guys were mostly bush pilots before and had no or very little experience...especially on widebodies..if not for Emirates...just because you are born with the skin colour and so called better CLASS/BORN PILOTS.

Now you talk big, talk nonsense and most of all ungrateful. You count your fat ass good luck tat you got a good job like now. And don't waste my time making me read your stupid complain..like small kids/brats.

I dare you.. JUST LEAVE, THROW IN YOUR RESIGNATION LETTERS.. IF YOU GOT THE ......balls.

[sluggums]

Wow, seems like VVV changed his/her name to crewlounge:confused:

[PITA]

Yeah WOW!

Crewlounge, you need to chill out my man.
You'll live longer

PITA

[Shake]

Crewlounge aka: Albatosser/VVV:

I know I shouldn't but such unadulterated ignorance shouldn't go unanswered:

Pilots are leaving. Pilots aren't turning up for courses.

USD falling: 30% over 3 years, yes it is a major factor.

Ozzies/European bush pilots? Not many bush operators with 737/747/767/330s... (767/747 are widebodies by the way). Oh and the experienced Ozzies & Europeans make up the majority of the work force which also helps keep the insurance premiums down.

Skin colour/class....you have serious issues you sad person if you think this is a racist/status issue.

Take your own advice and don't waste your time reading these posts and we won't waste our time reading yours.

[Zomp]

lounge you i***t, where are bush pilots in europe?

[EZGOEK330FO]

I can only imagine that crewlounge is refering to a different type of "Bush" and a different type of "Widebodies"..... but regardless he definetly needs psychiatric evaluation....... for the rest of his thoughts...
I have been reading the posts with interest and what is interesting to see is that people who do not work for Emirates, or who do work for Emirates for a short time, know all the answers, the rest of us are searching for....
Emirates is an OK employer, nothing to write back home about, but definetly not terrible (at present) but heading towards that direction.
We do have issues that are very important, and unfortunatly will not get resolved because there is no Union. Fatigue is one thing as Emirates is in uncharted territory in this area regarding ultra long haul ops, salaries and inflation in Dubai is another big issue, clarity of intentions and communication is another issue, for us FOs on the airbus who are coming up to the 3 year mark promotion is a big issue of course, and overall direction and commitment to long term stability is another issue.
Some might say that 3 years is a short time to command for a widebody aircraft, but let us not forget that most of us who have joined Emirates have atleast 10 years commercial aviation experience with previous operators.
I think that the future only holds much of the same, empty promisses, and aslong as new pilots are joining they will still believe that this is the year we all get the 30% increase that the Shake realy wants to give us but his bad management does not, and that the augmenting will be dealt with properly, and that there will be respect of the contracts they have signed. What we will get this year is the standard increment, probably two weeks profit share and flying our asses off until we drop dead.... or move to greaner pastures... There are options for everyone should we want to move on, but some times though I would like to tell them to shove it up there ass I know I need to be patient and move back home in my time and not their time.

[jarops]

Thank You all. This time I got some constructive answers. Ofcourse at the end it always ends to a personal humiliation between the writers, but at least I got very many FACTS about EK. I have been offered job twice now....to join you guys. Let's see. T&C's are obviously the largest issue here. I understand that EK has a rolling bidding system (if it works?) How many hours a normal line pilot works in a month (avarage of the period of 3 months)? More than in any similar company?

[SecurID]

Averaged over six months is 79 hours block time, but that same time period included four weeks leave. More to the point, am I tired? Yes, very.

[Jolly Foreigner]

Just had a squint at my log book.

Last 3 months 283hrs, with a weeks leave and a missed trip due to sickness.

Last 6 months:503hrs, with two weeks leave additional to the week above.

Once these have been 'factored' they probably equate to about 180 and 380 respectively towards the annual hourly limit.

Don't forget that the two days of pre-sim ground school and the two days in the sim aren't credited as duty now either.

Yet another roster with over 90 hours for April as well and rumours of an annual extension to 1000hrs (factored I would assume) is doing the rounds at the moment.

Keep discovering!!!

:yuk:

[EZGOEK330FO]

It is not just the flight time that we must look, it is also the fact that we fly on the back side of the clock, and the fact that we fly through many time zones. How many times have you not come back from a long flight with 12 hours minimum rest, to go out again on another long flight on the back side of the clock? We are all geniunly tired and concerned about where we are headed... It is with great surprise to most of us, that our management although familiar with the problem, although inundated with asrs on the matter seem not to care.... As checksix has already said corporate manslaughter lawsuits will be coming our way.....
On a more optimistic side, since they do not have the time to upgrade FOs to Captains if required to increase their levels of captains we will see many more DECs coming, and many more FOs leaving...
Keep Discovering

[davidletterman]

Arrrghhh...

jou arr jost aa bonch of lazzy pilots! Go back to work and stop wasting time on the internet!!!


Anyhow, just got word from two friends that rejected interview invitations from EK. One commuter pilot from a US airline and one big jet pilot from a big Asian carrier. EK even offered one of them to cover his fare to come for an F/O interview...new practice?? One of them just did not like the salary; the other one did not like the idea of not being able to commute and having to sign a training bond...when asked why he even bothered to apply, they got irritated when he stated he was just testing the market for jobs....market forces, yes, yes, yes...

Not a big deal, I guess, in a pool of thousands, but I am sure our dear friends VVV, BM and/or CL would offer fantastic explanations for such occurrences... and no, no insult intended, as those 3 do a wonderful job at themselves...

[ekpilot]

I cannot understand why the company would act so desperately in order to get someone to attend an interview. Pay for his ticket? Surely not! Especially when we have 25 pilots a day applying to join Emirates.

And just had a look at my logbook too, 108 block hours this month and covered four continents. From NZ to the US the long way round!

[BigGeordie]

I have heard (and this really is only a rumour!) that when guys do turn up for interview they are now told that the compnay will still provide housing but they have to pay their own utilities. Can anybody confirm or deny this?

[MIB]

Pay for your own utilities, reduction in school fees, reduced housing allowance and more restriction on the medical insurance. Which rumour do you want?
Believe the facts not the tittle tattle. No change to the utilities.:ok:

[SecurID]

MIB, a bit too 'managerial' in your response there! I could imagine John Howard saying that... ;)

[Shake]

School fees go up, allowance doesn't = reduction in school fees...not tittle tattle: FACT.

Housing similar principle.

[RINGAdingding]

SHAKE

Well said!! succinct, to the point!!:ok:

come back MIB:suspect:

PS no interests , no profession,no hobbies mmmmangerial profile me thinks!!!

[what_goes_up]

BigGeordie
Back from interview two weeks ago. Still promise utilities are payed.

[BigGeordie]

Thanks what goes up, nice to see that some rumours are just that.:D

[crewlounge]

Shake,

You just made my day. Looks like I hit the jackpot.
You must be one of those white bushman.... I was refering to in my earlier mail........thank you.
Pls look at the recruitment now. Well they just sack the guy who hired u. Seems he keep a stack of fully rated and qualified guys info under his desk and hired i***ts like you.

Just make sure u better keep that insurance low. Dont get another incident in South Africa.

Ciao.

[crewlounge]

Yes, I think I am not picking on anyone here.

It's what is true and what has happened over the past few years. The whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I think although we are in a better world now with globalisation and even as I speak, discrimination is still happening everywhere around the world.

Just to quote you an example in the aviation world:

1) JAA/ UK Licence are a type of discrimination. Where is the logic behind it. You do not test a guy based on his abilities nor based it on his tonnes of experience flying round the globe
but just on the fantastic rules behind your so called licencing requirements and totally make it impossible for a non UK/EU person to apply a licence or ... a pilot job vacancy.
THEY CALLED IT JAA LICENCE.

Mind you I have not even mentioned about interview....yet.

It just shuts you off even though you have all the fly by wire experience, type ratings or and even trained by Boeing.


2) In the neutral ground ....................................................middle east, korea, singapore and taiwan...where it is fair and where they will test you on your ability with a sim check, english mastery test and a nice interview, it shud turn out fine. A guy with enough experience pitted against another... fair and square.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY IN EK , due to someone with race orientation/ with strong racism...fairness did not happen.

And that my friends.... is the white bushman story.

Glad I heard that it's better now.

[sandkfir]

Crewlounge

I have enjoyed your previous posts because I find you ignorance and incoherence mildly amusing however your last cannot go without comment. I suspect you were merely fishing for a response with your post as it is an entirely inappropriate thread on which to raise the issues as you have. If you had a serious issue to raise perhaps you could have started a separate thread, maybe entitled “White Bushmen taking over the world” or similar.

If you are trying to incite a race debate amongst the forum readership then apart from possibly a few ignorant hicks you are unlikely to get far. I am sure that the moderators have a beady eye on where you are going with this sort of thing so I will leave it to them.

My real suspicion is that either you or one of your ”mates” has not been successful in the Emirates recruitment process and as a way of saving face and possibly cover his inadequacies has chosen to claim fraud, racism bias and unfairness. Not everyone is successful in every interview they attend during the course of their lives or careers. Some people are extremely good at what they do however are unsuitable for the job for a plethora of other reasons. The prospective employer would in many cases be doing the candidate a disservice by employing him as he would soon realize that he was unsuitable for the job and become disgruntled and disaffected.

As I don’t possess a JAA/UK ATPL I am unqualified to comment on its exclusivity however Emirates has published very clearly on its website that the license requirement for flight crew is an I.C.A.O. recognized ATPL. To insinuate that candidates are vetted on grounds of license origin is ludicrous as is testimony in the pilot workforce at EK with 80 plus nationalities on the flight deck with origins ranging from Aruba to Zululand.

If you or your mate didn’t make it then tough. Face it like a man instead of trying to hide behind some perceived racial issue. If you think that equality exists in quote <korea, singapore and taiwan...> may I suggest that you or your friend try out a spell of employment in such havens of tranquillity. Perhaps only then your view of global Utopia will get an injection of reality.

Finally a comment on another of your statements quote:

< A guy with enough experience pitted against another... fair and square>

I am sure that it was made abundantly clear at the beginning of the EK assessment that there were jobs for all candidates if they were found suitable and that there was no competition for places. If the airline was able to employ everyone who applied then there would be no need for the screening process.

Perhaps a little self reflection will reveal a number of clues as to why people fail.

[4HolerPoler]

http://www.artnskins.com/e107_images/emoticons/popcorn.gif

Easy now guys.

4HP

[Shake]

CL:

'Well they just sack the guy who hired u. Seems he keep a stack of fully rated and qualified guys info under his desk and hired i***ts like you.'

And you still can't make it in!
:p

[crewlounge]

My bushman friend,

I have been flying in and out of Dubai since 1980s and there was no Burj al-arab...whatever ...then .. , and Carrefour wasn't built then. EK was small and Gulf Air ruled the middle eastern sky. Then it was an old and hot terminal in dubai. Waiting for the bus shuttle to take us crew to mostly outer bays.

What I wrote is about the truth and what has happened to many good ICAO licence holders. So stop beating around the bush and try to sound a little more convincing.

The sandpit is not for me, especially having to hop to the right seat and fly with more strange bushman. Me.. too old for that, my dear bush boy. I am in my sunset years and will fly my carrier with pride.

Thanks but no thanks.

...in aviation, it's how much time you have. Not your posh or grand licence.

[White Knight]

Actually CL - time means nothing if you're useless at your job. And believe me, as a holder of 3 ATPL's (and 4 CPL's) from various parts of the world, I rate the UK and now JAR ATPL as one of the hardest to get. So yes, where your licence is from does actually make a difference.

Instead of spouting off here on this forum stay with your sunset airline where the captain is king and there is no CRM. I won't be flying on YOUR aeroplane thank God..

I'm not a bushman either:E :E

Language edited

[radnav]

Obviously the first licence you acquire is going to appear to be the hardest. Knowledge and experience gained will make any subsequent conversion appear somewhat easier.

Furthermore unless you gain your treasured little ATPL by doing a full course from scratch, then one cannot fairly compare the perceived difficulty.

Chest thumping about how many ATPLs one has is ludicrous when they were only achieved by merely converting your first one into another by virtue of an Air Law exam.

I’ll take true experience over a piece of paper any day.

[crewlounge]

White Knight,

First of all, my carrier isn't going sunset. In fact it is making tonnes of money. I am in my sunset years as a pilot not my carrier.

Secondly, I have only 2 licence...one from ATPL from my country of origin and another ATPL for my current job now.

I wish to end my writing here.
It's of no point for me to continue writing here.
I just wanted to say my piece of mind.

Please take care and happy landings to all.

[max AB]

I got my ATPL out of a Corn Flakes' box...that was bloody hard to get I can tell you...it was right at the bottom!

[White Knight]

Radnav - I'm not "chest beating", just making a point. Funnily enough, the first licence from the FAA was by far and away the easiest. The UK licence - after some years of flying was the most technical:sad:

True experience over paper - got to agree. However I get fed up with people like CL playing the race card to make up for their own shortcomings:hmm: :hmm: