Clubs in North West

[picky]

I am currently a member of LAC at Barton and I am considering moving to another club in the area. Main reasons being availability and recent price increases of club aircraft.

I have looked into both Liverpool and Manchester and the prices aren't vastly different, infact Ravenair is actually cheaper than LAC even including the landing fee at Liverpool. MSF at Manchester can be almost as cheap as LAC if bookings are made in block and paid for up front.

I am hoping to try both these clubs in the near future, but would welcome any comments or recommendations on these (or any other in the immediate area).

[pponting]

Are you a student or a PPL wanting to rent?

[picky]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I'm a PPL wanting to rent and I do approx 2 hours flying per month on average.

[FlyingForFun]

Not sure if Blackpool is too far for you or not, but there a couple of good schools on the airfield. Have to be careful about not advertising, because I work for one of those schools - but I would quite happily recommend most of the other schools as well as my own.

FFF
--------------

[Cat.S]

I've been a member at Ravenair since 2000 and am perfectly happy with them.

[Whirlybird]

No sure if Sleap is too far away for you, but I think you'll find their prices are cheaper than most others.

[muttley123]

I am also on the look out for a new flying club in the North but for slightly different reasons. I passed the IR exams late last year and wish to add an MEP/IR to my PPL. Costly business I know but I would be keen to know more about Ravenair, good instructors,quality aircraft etc. My other consideration would be the Leeds Flying School. Good instruction is paramount.

[picky]

Thanks guys

Whirley Bird - Love Sleap to bits (did first solo there) but it is just too far. I can get to the M6 really quick, but it just seems to take ages from there - or is there a quick way?

FFF - Is there any time restrictions flying from Blackpool, or can you fly at anytime? Also, can you PM me your current rates?

Ravenair is looking favourite at the moment if their prices on their web are correct.

[adwjenk]

Hey

Ravenair training is done in the Aztec mainly or the Seneca.
All the twins are in excellent conditions espically the Aztecs there a beut to fly. Thats for your MEP and IR, the IR and MEP instructor is the best guy around always there for the student ace at ground school and an easy guy to talk to!!!!!!
The Prices on the web site are correct. I was in the school the other day having a look at the price lists.

Good avalibilty in the A/C at Ravenair always have a spare PA38 or 2 for solo hire. Also well looked after, and well kitted out.

MSF is good but since its out of Manchester u have to have a check out, and well i hope u like waiting on the ground espically in summer and the weekends!!!!!!
Once i burned more fuel sitting on the ground then i did flying!!!!

[picky]

Does anyone know if Manchester still restricts VFR flights in and out between 11am and 6pm?

[Check Mags On]

Muttley123 check your PM's

And yes Picky there is still a curfew outside of those times

[Sir George Cayley]

It's a financial curfew.

If you are a lottery winner and can afford the £85 runway utilaisation fee then its available H24; also that fee only applies to departures. If there's a slot available you can land anytime.

Also, there is the possiblility of using R2 during its closed period.

Phone Ops and ask them the procedure. That'll fox 'em.!

Sir George Cayley

[Check Mags On]

George your right it is a financial curfew

But you can't use R2 between 12-3 pm at all it has no fire cover.

But you can if your "trial briefed" use the departure runway to land on, when it is dual runway ops, needs to be a VFR SEP/MEP.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

But you can if your "trial briefed" use the departure runway to land on, when it is dual runway ops, needs to be a VFR SEP/MEP.

I had the opposite to that when I was in Manch in the Chipmunk during the 'free landing weekend' in 2003. Arrival runway was 24R, departure 24L. We were cleared to depart 24R, presumably so we could turn right after takeoff direct Barton. I wanted R2 in the logbook so requested a 24L departure - which was readily granted.

SSD

[Spiney Norman]

Check Mags on/SSD.
The trial is exactly that. A trial for MSF CFI briefed pilots who operate with MSF or are Manchester resident pilots. It isn't restricted to single engine aircraft or, as CMO rightly says,available during the 24L/06R closure period. As it involves the use of special routeing positions which de-conflict aircraft landing on the normal arrival runway it has to be proven before being accepted into standard use. It is monitored very closely by ATC for accurate compliance. There are some changes which will be incorporated from the beginning of April which we hope will streamline the procedure. It won't be available for visitors in the foreseeable future until/if it's fully proven. I know that MSF are very happy with the way it has helped their flying programme.
The biggest problem for any GA useage at Manchester is going to be the availability of runway slots which are allocated by Manchester Airport, not by ATC. Current movement rate growth is running at 7-9% above monthly figures from 2004 so it is likely that access for any GA visitors will be limited to the 'off-peak' departure fee period anyway.

Spiney

[FlyingForFun]

FFF - can you PM me your current rates?Check your PMs!

FFF
--------------

[Check Mags On]

Thanks Spiney

Forgot the bit about being based.
Have seen the changes to the system, I think they are an improvement, if you want to inform the bosses upstairs.

I come in trail briefed all the time and I still haven't found
Styal station
:D

CMO

[cessna l plate]

MSF at Manchester are now offering handling (Mandatory at MAN) total is about £30 all in for a single I believe (See Todays Pilot this month for more info)

There are other clubs at Liverpool, as well as Ravenair. Have a walk around, you may be pleasently surprised about the price. Okay I'll be blatant, go to CATS!!!!!!

[maggioneato]

cessna 1 plate, don't wish that on poor old picky. Price isn't everything. I learnt to fly in those dirty old heaps. :(

[Squadgy]

Does anyone know the costs involved in basing a SEL at Manchester? Is any hangarage available?

[pponting]

cessna l plate

There are other clubs at Liverpool, as well as Ravenair. Have a walk around, you may be pleasently surprised about the price. Okay I'll be blatant, go to CATS!!!!!!
Do you know what their hourly rates are for a PA38 and the landing fee?

[BRL]

cessna l plate could you please PM pponting the rates, cheers..........

[picky]

cassna I plate, could you also PM the rates to me?

Further to the sub topic on the \'curfew\' at Manchester, I\'m curious how GA residents there cope with long cross countries, especially in the winter months. Also how do MSF students get round doing solo XC?

Also, does anyone know if there any plans to extend / abolish the financial penalties when flying in the \'curfew\' hours?

[lplpa28driver]

Piccy.
I too have flown from CATS, with much enjoyment, they mainly train in cessnas. In choosing any club or school you should look at all of the options; price, availabilty, a/c choice and welcome. What suits one person may not suit another. Spend some time doing your research, give all the options a ring and visit in person, then you'll have more idea what suits you. But beware some posters here may have other agendas.

[Eurotraveller]

Picky,

I believe MSF QXC flights are done from airfields away from Manchester; for example Sleap, Tatenhill etc. There would be a dual leg eg. Manchester - Sleap first.

As for the curfew, I could be mistaken but I thought it only applied to departures with arrivals being allowed later on without financial penalty. I stand to be corrected on that though.

In my admittedly limited experience the controllers at Manchester do their best to fit light aircraft in expeditiously, and holding for more than 5 or 10 minutes seems uncommon at the moment- in fact I've been cleared Stretton, Rostherne, Finals 06L on more than one occassion in the past month! Of course it all depends on the time you choose to fly, and I'm not making out that this is always the case at Manchester.

Cheers,
Eurotraveller

[picky]

Thanks Eurotraveller.....does that mean you can return quite late in the evening in summer months or even later if night rated?

My migration from Barton to a Manchester or Liverpool club is looking more certain now as I have just received my membership renewal for £240. Based on my useage, it's now as cheap to rent from Manchester and 3/4 of the cost at Liverpool.

[muttley123]

Check Mags On Check your PMs

Thanks Muttley123

[Established Localiser]

Picky,

I bought a share in a Barton based aircraft earlier in the year, I now try and fly once a week where before I was similiar to you doing an hour or so every month.

Buying a share took a long time for me to decide , but has definately been worth it .

My flying costs have dramatically decreased! I know you will have an initial outlay , but you are never really going to lose on the initial capital outlay.

Last night I flew for an hour and 40 minutes in an Archer II - 181 my costs for that were £63 including a quart of oil + £15 for the hour.

Now if you were doing that in a C152 or a Robin (2 seat ) your costs im sure would be less than that.

It has improved my flying with the increased continuity & I have my keys-book out-& go !!!

EL

[picky]

Established Localizer

Sounds like I need to do the same and get in a group. I've been warey as you do hear some bad experiences but it does seem that these are few and far between. I've also been quite unlucky as everytime I look into it, either there is nothing suitable or I just miss out on the share. They seem to go pretty quick at Barton.

Incidentaly if you do see any shares going at Barton will you let me know?

How many is in your group? Is availability ok or is there a mass scramble on a nice day or weekend?

[Established Localiser]

Picky,

You will be amazed how many group owned aircraft only fly about 200 or so hours a year.

So availability is never a problem , also if you want the aircraft for a 2 or 3 day or a week for that matter you are able to without any whinging !

There is 10 in our group & a share going ! although it is about £5000 ish.

I think Squadgy had a share going in his C152 that seemed good value and a well run group .

The daft thing is i wanted a 4 seater ! so paid more but looking back a 2 seater would have been fine as I can count on one hand the amount of times i have gone with more than 2 POB.

£1500 should get you a decent share , I also think there is a share in a Robin hangered behind the Clubhouse , Louis Blanchet one of the instructors has a share in it , so im sure he will advise you.

Good luck .

EL

PM me if you want any more info.

[picky]

Thanks EL...I have PM'd you

[crap pilot]

Picky

There are shares going in the group that im in. £2995 for the share(with a guaranteed buyback if you want to leave) then £40pm and £50ph wet. For that you can fly a C172 or an immaculate Citabria both on PT CofA so if you are not already signed off to fly tailweel you can do it in the Citabria.

PM me if you are interested.

[Squadgy]

Picky - the share EL mentioned in the group I'm in was sold several weeks ago. Keep your eyes peeled though, we usually advertise on the LAC noticeboard when any become available:ok:

[Established Localiser]

My God :rolleyes: All the salesman are out !!

Roll up Roll up !! Cheap as chips....deal a day Motors ! never been raced or rallied....one owner from new guvnor !

C152 good as new !!.....LOL :D :D

EL :ok:

[Squadgy]

C152 good as new !!.....

It's a 150:* :D

[Established Localiser]

C150 didn't rhyme !!!! ..So there !!!


EL

[AndyDRHuddleston]

It's been a while since this thread was open, but I am interested in buying a share in somewhere in the North West. I live in Liverpool, but wouldn't mind travelling if there's a good deal to be had.

I am fATPL, with 323 TT.

Thanks ADRH

[picky]

There's a share going in our group at Barton in a quite well equipped Cessna 172. PM me if you want any further details.

Dave

[avidflyer]

The best thing to do is to go down to the clubhouse and look on the noticeboard to the right of the doors...there are a number of shares advertised there including one in our very nice Cherokee<G>