Total Delay??

[spoilers yellow]

A term that seems to be used more and more these days going into LHR:

Direct (e.g) LAM to hold, total delay 15mins.

What exactly is the meaning of the total part? is it the delay over what we can expect if we flew standard speeds and had no hold? or can we expect to be in the LAM hold for the given time?

Thanks.

[Heathrowinnit]

Yes:ok:
It's not that scientific...just an educated(ish) guess..I think the word total makes it sound more calculated than it really is.
However if I had to make an informed comment then I would say it refers to speed reductions made prior to holding, and any delaying type vectoring you may receive after leaving the hold.

[VectorLine]

If I had to make an informed comment then I would suggest that the word 'total' is as superfluous as the word 'radar' in "radar heading"

[Jerricho]

I used to use the term "total delay" on first contact with an aircraft that had already entered the hold, and had gone around once or twice, but had't actually checked in on the frequency (due to R/T loading, not having reached it's released level or the Int Support controller had been a little on the lazy side and not recorded the stack entry time ;) )

[Barry Cuda]

I use "total delay" if Lamborne is full and I have to hold an aircraft at Braso or Saber.

Tactically you should only go around the outer holds once or twice, so if I give "total delay 20 mins" it means the hold at Braso + holding time at Lam, and it saves time saying "Hold Braso for about 5 mins then expect to hold Lam for about 15mins....!"

[Aluminium Importer]

I use it for the same reason as Jerricho.

An example:

An aeroplane that has already been spinning in the hold for 15 minutes before being transferred to the director might get confused when he is told on first contact that the "Delay is 15-20 mins". Is this total delay or remaining delay / delay from now?

As a general rule, some (including me) use:

A/C not yet holding - "Delay 15-20 mins"

A/C already in hold - "Total delay 15-20" or "delay another 5 mins"

To most LL based crews, I'll use the first option, whether they're already in the hold or not.


Nothing in the book about this - just makes it less ambiguous.

AI

[250 kts]

I use it in the same way as Barry. It indicates exactly what it says on the tin-the total delay.
Just a pity that the sectors don't have access to the EAT monitor that the LASs use so effectively-not. The earlier the en-route sectors know about the terminal delays the better the traffic can be "metered" into the TMA.

[2 sheds]

On a slightly different tack, could someone in the know please explain how NATS arrives at its much trumpeted reduced delays due to ATC? I.e. these various nebulous figures such as average delay reduced by 10 seconds to 25 seconds per aircraft.

[PPRuNe Radar]

On a slightly different tack, could someone in the know please explain how NATS arrives at its much trumpeted reduced delays due to ATC? I.e. these various nebulous figures such as average delay reduced by 10 seconds to 25 seconds per aircraft.

The CFMU has figures on the delays due to an Air Navigation Service Provider, as well as the number of aircraft which transitted airspace where it controls.

You divide the delay by the number of aircraft and then get an average delay figure per aircraft.

Simple really !!

This is reported to relevant organisations by CODA (Central Office for Delay Analysis). The receiving organisation can then use the figures as it see fit.

More here :

CODA (http://www.eurocontrol.int/corporate/public/standard_page/cb_delays.html)

[Jerricho]

NATS arrives at its much trumpeted reduced delays due to ATC?

'Coz you can make numbers say anything. (Or was it because I left?)

[2 sheds]

PPrune Radar

I'm not so dim that I don't understand how a mean value is determined!!! (Said in jocular fashion - to avoid any misunderstanding)

Let me re-phrase the question - how then is "the delay due to the ATS provider" ascertained? (Really can't see the wood for the trees in the CODA site - looks like some self-perpetuating jobs-for-the-boys department)/

2 s