Media report: "Drunken" Delta Airlines Co-Pilot Frankfurt

[A380HS]

Frankfurt/Main (dpa) -

The Frankfurt police has arrested an drunken Delta Airlines Co-pilot beginning of this week before he was on the way to Atlanta.

The flight was several hours delayed.

- don't fly and drink -

cheers

sorry german only:http://de.news.yahoo.com/050303/12/4fwv4.html

[Airbubba]

Delta pilot held in drink probe

Thursday, March 3, 2005 Posted: 1333 GMT (2133 HKT)

FRANKFURT, Germany (Reuters) -- German police detained a Delta Air Lines pilot suspected of being drunk at Frankfurt airport just before he was due to make a flight to Atlanta, a spokeswoman for the airline said Thursday.

The first officer, one of two co-pilots on the Monday flight, was taken to a Frankfurt police station and given a blood-alcohol test. A Frankfurt police spokesman confirmed the pilot was detained and said the test results were not yet known.

"One of the first officers of Delta Flight 27 was detained by local law enforcement representatives in Germany because of alleged alcohol use," a spokeswoman for Delta in Munich said.

"Delta has removed the pilot from active service pending further investigation of this matter." She declined to provide any details about the pilot's name, age or nationality.

She said the February 28 flight, which was carrying 156 passengers to the southern U.S. city, was delayed slightly. The plane departed with a captain and just one first officer rather than two, she said.

Police said the pilot was being investigated for possible charges of dangerous interference in air transport.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/03/delta.pilot.reut/

[Flying Lawyer]

I can understand why the press would use a 'drunk pilot' headline because it makes the story seem more dramatic, but I can't understand why anyone interested enough in aviation to post on an aviation website would be so irresponsible when, according to the news reports, "A Frankfurt police spokesman .......... said the test results were not yet known."

Drunken pilot? :confused:

[flystudent]

Another headline like this it appears one it popping up every week now !!

Here is a question for you as pilots. The way things are going times have changed (or so it appears) over the years that socialising (involving drink) is confined to the days (24 hours before) one is flying.

Naturally some people will have a moderate intake of alcohol the night before a flight (couple glasses of wine with dinner for example). If this was you and you had the means would you test yourself the day you are due to work to know there is nothing left in your system ?
By doing so would it be frowned upon that you did this (if anyone knew) or is it just you being responsible and confirming "yep I'm clear and I know for sure in case for some reason I get tested" even perhaps for a ridiculous reason like.. a go around !!)

I suppose it doesn't only relate to aviation but all walks of life and positions of responsibility.

FS:ok:

[RoyHudd]

Sorry administrators, but permitting hype-ridden headlines like this makes the website as tawdry as many of the newspapers and publications which are sttacked in these threads.

And my gripe is that legally contentious threads are removed at the drop of a hat (Yes, one or two of mine), and yet something like this, pre-judging a very important issue for the pilot concerned, is simply allowed to run.

I feel strongly that you are censoring/editing the website using double standards. And I accept that I may be wrong, and welcome constructive comment.

Meanwhile change the headline unless you hace the evidence that the pilot was drunken.

[Jetdriver]

As you will appreciate the title of the thread is usually chosen by the initial poster.

If somebody had posted a name that was not already in the public domain, it would almost certainly have been removed. In fact the poster was commenting on a news item already in the public domain and that link was provided in the post.

You may dislike the comments and feel that the poster is "pre-judging", however that is not the same as posting something legally contentious and therefore is unlikely to be assesed in the same manner.

[RoyHudd]

OK, I accept your comments.

However, my concern remains that thread titles like this one attract the attention of everyone from the lay public to aviation journalists. The result can be yet more unwarranted and unfair adverse publicity for the pilots' profession (It is our website, is it not?).

And for those who don't bother reading the thread, the impression will remain of yet another "drunken pilot".

I am advocating a balanced form of censorship, which is doubtless a politically incorrect idea. But please, can we support our profession?

[Flying Lawyer]

Why is it, whenever we hear reports of “suspected” drunk pilots – the entire pilot fraternity immediately goes on the defensive in support of their “fallen comrade”.
I'm not a professional pilot but, from what I've read in the various threads, you could safely take your pick from ....
Because the tabloids use misleading and deliberately emotive headlines like 'Drunken pilot' and 'Pilot was drunk' on the very rare occasions when a pilot has been found to be over the recently introduced (in the UK) legally prescribed limit.
Because, occasionally, contributors to discussions have used the same terms. (I'm pleased to see a Moderator has changed the title of this thread.)
Because there hasn't, as far as I know, been a single instance of a pilot being arrested or prosecuted for being drunk.
Because, contrary to the fear which the tabloids like to whip up, there is no evidence of alcohol having caused, or contributed to, any aviation accidents.

The usual dribble about how tiny an amount of alcohol was in his blood stream, is often spoken, backed up by long list of figures.
I'm sorry you think it's "dribble", but I doubt if the overwhelming majority of the public who read of a pilot being found to be over the limit realise the limit for pilots is one quarter of that at which motorists are presumed to be capable of driving perfectly safely. ie That, although illegal, the actual amount of alcohol found in the pilot's bloodsream may be so small that it couldn't conceivably have affected his abillity to fly safely.

“He’s lost his job, surely that’s punishment enough” is a line also, often spoken.
I've only heard and read that in the context of a pilot being sent to prison for being over the limit by only a minute amount. In that context, I agree with the line.

"Why is it, that as professional pilots, many believe the law does not apply?"
I haven't read anyone saying that. Have you? Or is that your interpretation of what's been said?

"If, as on occasions a pilot has been found over the driving limit whilst driving into work, why is it that he is portrayed as being victimized? Again, the law applies to all."
I haven't read anyone saying that.

"How many of you have at one time or another had one over the top and driven home hassle free – Yet at the same time criticized the police and courts for being far too lenient on drunk drivers and those that kill behind the wheel?"
Which do you mean? Having one over the legal limit, or being drunk and/or killing someone? You're adopting the tabloid practice of ignoring the distinction between someone being 'one over the top' and being drunk - which brings us back full circle to where you started.

Tudor Owen

[superpilut]

Well Flystudent:
Actually I'm considering buying such a thing.
I hardly ever drink, but this is starting to be nit-pinking.
Over the limit is far from being drunk as far as I know, so there is no way to assess if you are just over or under the limit.
And yes; not drinking is THE solution, but sometimes it simply happens you have 1/2 a glass too much!

Its a matter of "covering your *ss" like with every small aspect of our job!!

Not that I think we're above the law, but It got pretty easy these days to loose your job as a pilot these days!

If it would be as easy to get job as to loose it, everyone would be a pilot!:ok:

[cwatters]

Over the limit is far from being drunk as far as I know, so there is no way to assess if you are just over or under the limit.

Oh please. You are meant to abstain for 8 hours. If you are still over the limit 8 hours after you stopped drinking you must have had quite a lot. It's much easier to tell your alcohol state at the start of those 8 hours rather than at the end of them!

According to info on the web...

Typically in 8 hours a normal person should metabolise the equivalent of about 8 "drinks" where a drink is either:

a) 12oz bottle beer
b) 4oz of wine
c) 1oz of 80% proof

Are you saying you aren't aware of feeling "altered" after drinking 8 beers and need a machine to tell you?

[Ignition Override]

A headline which uses the words "drunken pilot" can even be used mostly for general aviation guys who fly their own/rented small planes, and this happens when the newspaper editor needs to inflate the total number of pilots, to give one the impression, unless one reads carefully, that there are many such cases among commercial airline pilots . I'm only aware of one former newspaper aviation reporter who is a licensed pilot-and he quit and became a cropduster! He suffered a nasty 'tangle' by a farmer's field and was quite lucky to have survived a crash. Here's to Grumman or whichever builder :).

Saskatoon: In a city in southwestern Canada, not long ago a pub employee saw an airline crew drinking. The person either believed that the crew was to soon be on duty, or simply wanted to embarass/harass them, and has a strong grudge against flightcrews (?). He or she called either their company or a Real Authority (the kind which flies a briefcase full of paper). Anyway, they were many hours from scheduled duty and the other crewmembers at their company were advised to avoid the popular pub. Maybe the possible grudge was based on current politics?

[Mr Chips]

Could I just check.. has anyone objected to the thread/title about a drunk army officer? About "another drunken passenger"? No? I thought not...

It seems to be SOP on this forum to defend any brethalised pilot as..

"The limit is too low"
"He isn't normally like this"
"Nobody has ever been killed by a drunk pilot"
"How dare a security guard/bar tender/coach driver/passenger/anyone not a pilot report him"

Mr Owen, I have the greatest respect for you, but don't I recall one recently jailed pilot being tested as over the driving limit?

Oh, and there was much consternation about pilots being tested just outside a crew car park at wither Stansted or manchester recently. I seem to recall some talk of the pilots being "victimised"

[bjcc]

I recall at least 2 of the newspaper reports about cases so far in the UK, both reported the limits as 1/4 the drink drive limits.

However, as many that have posted on alcohol related topics on here seem have no real idea of what the limits for driving are in terms of pints/glasses, there is no reason to suppose the press and public have any more idea.

Of course none of this is confined to pilots, the same headlines are often applied to any occupation that is involved in something where they can be charged for working while having had more than a specific limit.

The same headlines again are used when a car driver is involved in an accident, even if they are 'just over'.

I have to agree with SASKATOON9999, there is an impression given sometimes that pilots should be above the law. Having said that I think it's also understandable that people will leap to the defence of others in thier own occupation.

FL.
Yes there is evidence of alcohol being related to at least one accident int he UK. In other countries? I don't know, although I do seem to recall an accident in the US, where the crew buggered off from an aircraft accident, and it was later established they had been drinking (I admit I have no idea if that was the cause of the accident)

[Flying Lawyer]

Mr Chips

If this was a predominantly army website, there might be lots of objections to that thread title although , as I rmember it, the alllegation was that he was drunk. (No offence of being over a prescribed limit applies to pax.) That said, I agree some of the comments about passengers who've allegedly misbehaved (drunk or sober) are sometimes completely OTT.

You're right about one of the pilots jailed being over the driving limit - I represented him - but I don't think that's inconsistent with anything I said in my previous post.

Other than in a professional sense, I wouldn't try to defend any pilot over the limit. What I've tried to do since before the current law came into force, and since, is to warn pilots that the new law is far stricter than the old and that the chances of being caught are far higher.
However, I can understand pilots' irritation at the melodramatic over-reaction of the tabloids on the very rare occasions a pilot is found to be over the limit. I find it irritating, and I'm not even a professional pilot! I think it's entirely understandable that other pilots feel the need to point out there's no reason whatsoever for passengers to be alarmed - and point out there's no evidence of alcohol causing or contributing to accidents.

Reporting people to the police often generates strong feelings. I suppose much depends upon whether the person reporting was motivated by a sense of public responsibility or by a grudge. There's reason to suspect the Heathrow case, and the recent Manchester PIA case, fall into the latter category.
That said, the risk of being reported makes it even more important for pilots to be even more careful.

Tudor


(Edit)

bjcc
I agree it's "understandable that people will leap to the defence of others in their own occupation" - or even previous occupation. ;)
I'm always happy to be learn, and be corrected if I've got something wrong. You say "Yes there is evidence of alcohol being related to at least one accident int he UK. What is the evidence?

[Clarence Oveur]

Yes, there seems to be a growing number of 'inputs' from the non-flying part of the population, for reasons less than noble. Both here and in the real world.

[Charly]

FOR INFO:

180 cm
80 kg
male
Stomach half full before(!) drinking
30 yrs
start drinking at 1900
end at 2200
five x 0,5 ltrs Beer:

Sober at 0730 the next morning. (9:30 hrs)

These figures are based on this calculator:

http://www.lycos.de/startseite/auto/news_service/promillerechner/

Try it out! (translation tips: "männlich"-male; "weiblich"-female; "Anzahl"; Numbers of...;"Mageninhalt vor trinkbeginn"-
how much food in stomach before drinkstart)

To calculate your data press: "Daten berechnen"