Fuel Dip Stick for Piper Arrow II

[dublinpilot]

Would anyone have a properly calibrated dipstip for a Piper Arrow II, and would be willing to give me the measurement from the end, to the various significan points on it?

I have tried to calibrate my own, but given that I can't tell exactly how much fuel I have, unless it's filled to tabs or full, I won't take off unless it's full. As a result it's it's taking a long time to build up an accurate calibration of the levels below half tank! Ok. I'm a scardy cat! But it keeps me alive ;)

So what I'm hoping someone will be able to give me, is a measurement from the bottom of the stick, to where it reads, 10ltrs, 20ltrs, 30 ltrs.... etc,

Alternatively if somone could point me to where I'd be able to buy a pre-calibrated one, that would be great. I've looked at the usual mail order shops, and can only find precalibrated ones for the Cessna range.

Thank you.

[Champagne Anyone?]

Slightly tedious method but have you tried draining the tank and then filling it gallon by gallon and marking your own dipstick?

Thats the way I would go! (And you know exactly what is in the tank as you have placed the fuel in there and marked your stick accordingly. Make sure you are on flat ground first and that the oleio's are at the same position and not showing a bias one way or another and then check your tanks with the a/c in the same plane. ie level ground etc.)

[Genghis the Engineer]

That's the method I used for my own aircraft (not a PA28, but it still has a fuel tank!), if you've got a patient fuel pump attendant at your airfield, shouldn't take long.

G

[DubTrub]

We did the same...but draining the tank(s) in the first place was tedious.

A thought: if you want to leave the "unusable" fuel in the tank, drain the fuel tanks from the take-off port (not the sump drain).

[dublinpilot]

Unfortunately being a city boy, I don't really have anything suitable to hold the 50/60 ltrs of fuel that would be in a tank at any given time.

So I was trying to get a measurement, each time I filled up, but it's rare the tanks are let go past 1/2 way, so it's proving difficult!

Hence my request for some measurements from someone else's!

dp

[Genghis the Engineer]

Not hard, siphon or pump the fuel from one tank to the other, so long as you were below half tanks, which shouldn't be too hard to arrange, there's no problem.

G

[Ludwig]

Or fly around in the overhead until you use all the usable fuel and then execute a glide approach. This has the advantage of being a true measure of empty tanks.:rolleyes:

[TheOddOne]

I think the reason that there's no commercially available PA28 calibrated dipstick is that it's hard to make an accurate measurement of fuel quantity in these tanks by the dipping method, due to the shape etc of the tank and the wide variation you get with the oleos/slope of the ground. I think that's why Piper put in the tabs, as being a reasonably accurate way of filling to part-tank, to allow a greater cabin/baggage payload. You can be down to over an hour's flying in a tank and not be able to see the fuel hardly at all. High-wing Cessna tanks seem better in this regard, though you get the dreaded fuel flow from one tank to the other with some models.

In my view, the proper way to operate fuel quantity with this sort of a/c is to work out the fuel consumption over a period of time, say, 50 - 100 hours, then use this figure to work out from full tanks (or from the tabs) how much fuel you've consumed. The fuel gauges' prime usefulness seem to be to fill in the holes in the panel.

In other words, your best fuel gauge/ dip stick is your watch.

Cheers,
TOO

[dublinpilot]

The Odd One,

I agree completely, that an accurate and reliable fuel consumption, from a known fuel amount, is the best way to work.

One of the main reasons I want to get an accurate dip stick, is so that over time, I can start to get very accurate fuel consumption figures, for the way that I fly, and not some book amount.

Genesis,

I don't have a hand pump. I'm assuming it's a relatively expensive thing to get for such a minor once off job?

Ok, I'm not an engineer, but if I remember my physics correctly, doesn't siphoning require that the end of the pipe with the fuel coming out it, be lower than the end with the fuel going in? So this would be quite hard to do directly from tank to thank.

I suppose I could buy a small portable container, and some hose, and siphon to the container, and then pour it from the container into the other tank, but I've a feeling I'd be there all day!

I honestly thought someone would have a reasonably well calibrated dip stick, but it looks like I'm going to have to do this the hard way!

Thanks for you help, and suggestions guys.

[stiknruda]

Dublin Pilot,

You've had the bucks to learn to fly, you now rent/share/borrow/own an Arrow II!

Get off yr arse - buy/borrow sufficient fuel cans/jerry cans/whatever to make a dipstick in the fashion that Ghengis alluded to in an earlier post.

WHY? Because on that day when it has all gone rat$hit and you are fighting yr way back against a head wind from a field that didn't have any fuel left, you'll know that you've calibrated the tanks yourself and ithas been done PROPERLY. You'll then know that with the fuel burn that you've experienced at the power setting you're flying, your wrist watch will ACCURATELY give you a clue as to whether you will make it or not.

Good grief, it's not rocket science.

Alternatively - when Ludwig, myself and 5 others rock up in a couple of months, we'll help! We'll drain your tanks, fill up our pocket rockets with the proceeds and then you can easily calibrate yr dipstick and calculate your ulage!

Stik

[Cusco]

Don't listen to them: pr*ts every one!

I've got just what you want: a wooden dipstick for our arrer 2 carefully fashioned several years ago by one of our group painstakingly filling the tanks gallon by gallon (Imperial)

Its graduated at 5 galls, 10galls, 15 galls and 20 galls (inperial) and I never leave home without it.

Trouble is the strips miles away and I can't fly till weekend:even then the Wx looks cr*p

But I'll take the measurements you ask for and PM you just as soon as I can get to the strip.

Cheers

Cusco

[dublinpilot]

Stik,

I'm not going to dignify that with a reply.

Cusco,

You're a gentleman. I'd really appreciate that, and there is no need rush at all.:ok:

dp

[DFC]

For the Arrow, Cherokee and Archer aircraft with 25 USG Tanks;

Filled to the filler neck - 25USG

Filled to the TAB -18USG

Filled to the bottom of the outer tank wall - 10USG

Of course the above are total figures and one must take off any unuseable amount.

Between 10 and 18 or between 18 and 25 eyeball the amount. Never had a problem before with that concept.

Never plan to arrive home with less than 1 hour of fuel in the tanks - say 10 USG for your aircraft. (You will actually arrive with less (45minutes) after allowance for ground taxi, extra fuel in the climb etc.

Thus if only 10 USG in each tank (bottom of outer wall) you can only fly for about 45 minutes.

If you want to fly with (or think that you can accurately measure less than 10 USG in such a tank) then think again.

Regards,

DFC

[Circuit Basher]

dublinpilot - not taking sides with anyone, but a HUGE caveat on the kind offer from Cusco is to check that you've each got exactly the same model of PA28. There are so many variations in design (indeed in the inidividual installation) of the tanks that I, as an engineer, would feel much happier calibrating my own dipstick which is airframe specific. I have done this before and it only took around half an hour once I had empty tanks (which were emptied during a 100 hr check to renew a fuel union). Just having a refueller with a bit of patience (as if!!) or a 'pump your own' facility and Robert's your fathers brother!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Genesis,

I don't have a hand pump. I'm assuming it's a relatively expensive thing to get for such a minor once off job?

Ok, I'm not an engineer, but if I remember my physics correctly, doesn't siphoning require that the end of the pipe with the fuel coming out it, be lower than the end with the fuel going in? So this would be quite hard to do directly from tank to thank.


Actually it's Genghis, Genesis was Phil Collin's first band.

Offhand, I'd expect to pay about a tenner, maybe £20 tops for a siphon or similar type pump from a car shop, the only other thing you are likely to need is a length of fuel hose - probably from the same source.

(something like this (http://www.hartleige.com/syphon.htm) )

G

[dublinpilot]

Genghis,

Sorry for the misspelling!

Thanks for the link. I'd assumed these things would be a lot more expensive!

Thanks for your help.

dp

[dublinpilot]

CB,

No worries! I will take Cusso's kind offer, and will use it to confirm my own measurements to date. If everything to date agrees (and I've measured down to about 1/2 tanks), it will give me the confidence to work a little further down. I will let the fuel get a little out of balance, so even if I completely :mad: up (very unlikely I'll get that far!), I'll be able to switch to the other thank and keep in the air.

I take a very conservative approach to fuel management, and you can rest assured, that no matter how inaccurate Cusso's stick is for the aircraft I fly, I won't be running out of fuel!

Thanks for the advice, and it's of good warning for anyone else reading this thread too!

dp

[TheKentishFledgling]

I take a very conservative approach to fuel management, and you can rest assured, that no matter how inaccurate Cusso's stick is for the aircraft I fly, I won't be running out of fuel!

I doubt that anyone who's ever run out of fuel thought they would, or planned to!

:bored: :ugh:

tKF

[dublinpilot]

I'm sure they don't. But I suspect many don't leave enough aside for contingencies.

[Cusco]

Hi dp:

Managed to get a bit of flying in today to support the North Weald cause:

The measurements on our Arrow 2 fuel dipstick are as follows.
from end of dipstick: (in tank)

: 73 mm to 10 imp gallon mark
116mmto 15 imp gallon mark
178mm to 20 imp gallon mark:

Dipstick held vertical at centre of tank inlet.

These measurements were made by a group member several years ago, by painstakingly filling the tank gallon by gallon.

Our Arrow is a standard Arrow 2 with standard tanks, but of course you must use these measurements to extrapolate to your Arrow entirely at your own risk.

Cheers

Cusco.

[dublinpilot]

Cusco,

Thanks a million for that. It's very helpful, and extremely kind of you.

Caveat taken and understood!

Thanks :ok:

dp

[Flyin'Dutch']

DP,

If you are after cheap jerry cans; try Screwfix. We paid something like £15 per can.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=49916&ts=13379 they do a next day delivery.

Better than wooden dipsticks are the plastic ones which require you to put your finger on the top.

[dublinpilot]

Thank you FD. Much appreciated.