Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09) [Archive] - Page 3

High Wing Drifter

20th Mar 2007, 15:18

I would tend to agree with Fray. As someone who managed to carve out a successful professional career (albeit non-aviation) despite nothing more some pretty shoddy O level passes, you'll be suprised how many subtle ways a lack of an advanced general education can create problems further down the line.

Scruggs,

Distance learning can be a problematic solution. It is very difficult to maintain priorities when learning over an extended period in parallel with whatever, potentially very demanding, committments you may develop during your flight training.

Careful that you don't get done for imitating a Police Officer :}

744FO

20th Mar 2007, 16:27

Thanks guys, pretty much confirmed that Im gonna go back to college. Thanks for your advice!:)

garywoodrow

24th Mar 2007, 23:33

hi, kind of thread stealing here :rolleyes:

Im currently at college doing A-Level ICT and ICT Double. And i am taking up Physics for AS next year (It overlapped with ICT Double this year so it was one or the other) Im predicted AA and C in physics AS.

Ive wanted to be a pilot since i can remember and i am trying to rack up as many good qualifications as possible since i kind of failed my GCSE's, only getting 7 A-C grades. I will probly finish off the physics later on but i would also like to start another A-level in night-college. I am just wondering what would be the best to take (apart from maths, already been kicked out for doing crap in the january exams :ugh:). I have been looking into geography but i didnt take it at GCSE.

Thanks for any replies,

Gary

scroggs

25th Mar 2007, 10:17

Firstly, you could try reading this thread. It contains 20 pages of asking and answering your question.

Scroggs

Rocky1987

28th Mar 2007, 11:43

Hello all,

I am after a bit of advice guys! I am currently studying for my NVQ level 3 in customer service which, when I pass is equivalent to a pass at A-Level! Is this any good, for getting airline training schemes, to train me, or do they just look for A-Levels? If that makes sense to anybody??

Cheers guys, any comments welcome!

Lee

Captain Smithy

29th Mar 2007, 11:37

Hello all,

Think this is my first post in this forum... anyway, just a wee question I'd like to ask.

Have searched the forum, didn't find much on the subject, so apologies if this has been heard Ad Nauseum.

I have heard many people say that having a university degree under your belt may improve your chances of landing a job with an airline (note the key word "may"). Nothing different to other careers I suppose.

What I was wondering was would an HNC be of benefit as well? Not as high a level as a Uni Degree obviously but it's a qualification nonetheless.

I am currently an apprentice engineer, just finishing off my Electronic Engineering HNC, will be doing my Mech Eng HNC starting September. I'm already thinking however, should all go well, of upgrading to HND. Always wanted to be a pilot though, have began my PPL, first step now underway. I want to avoid Uni like the plague, so just wondering if the qualification would give me any more of a chance of landing a job on the flight deck.

Cheers

Smithy;)

Re-Heat

29th Mar 2007, 11:53

It is never a bad thing to acquire the qualifications, however, I don't think you should be under any illusion that it will help you get into the flightdeck - except for the ability it gives you to talk about and demonstrate your commitment to learning under interview situations.

SinBin

29th Mar 2007, 11:55

This has been done to death but here goes. I can safely say having an engineering degree is of no help except to get you a better paid job to pay for flight training. I have an engineering degree and it didn't help one bit in getting an airline job. Most pilots don't have degrees.

screaminlemmin

29th Mar 2007, 12:55

I found that the only use in my physics degree was it gave me the opportunity to talk about the gliding club i had joined at uni! To be honest, i did the degree as a fall back if i lost a medical down the line so that i could get a higher paid job.

Captain Smithy

29th Mar 2007, 13:15

Okay, thanks for your help guys, that's all I wanted to know. Cheers for the answers.

Smithy

Maverick2167

14th Apr 2007, 11:17

I would to take up a Bsc Aviation Course along with A Cpl course what are the advantages for a Pilot having such a degree in any airline as compared to a pilot having only a Cpl?

WindSheer

15th Apr 2007, 05:54

But then again, your degree is only as strong as your ATPL(F) is.
I.e, aim for FTP's on your exams, and in your CPL, IR.
The degree will hold no water in an interview/sim assesment if your a crap pilot......:ok:

Life's a Beech

15th Apr 2007, 07:56

... what are the advantages for a Pilot having such a degree ...Probably the same as any degree for you as a pilot.

As a pilot it is useful to have the piece of paper if you want to go into management, the subject is immaterial. However I doubt if this is a real degree in the traditional meaning, with a research component (which always used to be the difference between a degree and any other diploma). Therefore as a backup for you, in case your flying career is foreshortened, it is less use than a degree in an academic subject.

I would suggest that if you want a degree you choose a proper subject. If that is not important to you then the time and money would be better spent developing your career than at university.

Effee

9th May 2007, 13:13

Hi all, just want you're opinion. I have an option of choosing stable degrees. (Law, Aero Enginnering) Or flight training from scratch. Now I am just wondering which to choose?
If i give up my degree and take a shot at flight training, that would be a pretty big risk and jobs are hard to find.

However if i choose my degree, i'd never know if i would have been a pilot...
how do i decide?

Also, on average how long would it take to complete a full time course with all the ratings and a fatpl?

Airbus38

9th May 2007, 13:27

Read the sticky at the top of this forum, all the answers are in there.

Emkay

17th May 2007, 19:20

Hey guys

Sorry for creating the worlds most repeated thread, but please just bear with it, here is my story, I would like you to give me a decision on chances I have in joining a professional university/training scheme and what route I should take.

I am currently a 15 year old studying in a (specialised in technology and languages) grammar school in northeast london and am currently in Year 10. I haven't done many GCSEs yet but I got an A* in my first science module exam and I am about to take 4 more science GCSEs soon this year and next year which I am fairly confident about. I will also be taking further Physics and Chemistry GCSEs. I am fairly confident that I can get an A or A* in maths next year since I got a B in the mocks without even trying.

Here are my GCSE Mock results (likely to increase :p) :
- Maths: B
- English: A
- English Lit: A*
- Physics: A*
- Chemistry: A
- Biology: A
- Business Studies: B
- Art: B
- French: A
- Electronics: B
- RE: A
- ICT: A

For my AS plans I am doing AS Electronics in Year 11 (since I have done my whole GCSE electronics in year 10) and I am also planning to take Physics, Maths and Chemistry A levels in the future. I am in top set for English and Maths...

Anyway enough of my blabbing. What route do you think I should take when I finish 6th form in school? Are there any good universities near london/England that specialise in Aviation and/or will accept me If I achieve what I think I can achieve?

If you are in a similar situation to me, I would invite you to post about yourself too in this thread, so you can find out about what route you can take too :)

BerksFlyer

18th May 2007, 15:58

Thats infact quite amazing, my mock results are pretty much the same for you (emkay) except A* in all three sciences, French and swap the business B for an economics B (i don't do electronics or art).

Ofcourse i'm posting as i'm the same as you. I've always aimed to be a pilot but now i realise that it is achievable if i emulate my mock results in my real GCSEs.

Personally, i've always thought that the best thing to try and do (as myself nor my family are rich) is to try and get sponsored or join the RAF. I'm in the ATC but fighter jets don't really float my boat (even though it would be better flying) so being sponsored would be my prefered way to becoming a pilot. However things rarely go to plan, so i'm not sure.

scroggs

19th May 2007, 10:24

Firstly, to all intents and purposes there are almost no sponsorship schemes in the sense that your training is paid for by someone else with no financial risk to yourself. The only exceptions (in the UK) are the military and the Air Atantique Fugly scheme, which trains about 2 people a decade.

For all of the airline-linked self-sponsored schemes (CTC, Oxford etc), the minimum educational requirements are usually 5 CGSEs at Grade C or above, to include English and Maths, and sometimes 2 A-Levels. Occasionally the A-Level requirements include Maths or a science, but very rarely.

Read this thread. Read the sticky thread at the top of the forum. Read the threads about the various mentored schemes (easyJet, Thomsonfly, Monarch, Flybe etc). Go to the websites of the various airlines and schools. In other words, do your own research in as much depth as you can; understand your subject and inform your questions so that they are meaningful and attract useful answers.

Scroggs

garywoodrow

20th May 2007, 11:47

I only got 7 GCSE's all C's and 1 B inc maths, english and science. I guess i messed around too much :bored:. Im in college now doing AS-Level ICT double and Physics which im predicted two A's and a B. Already got two B's for certain :ok:. By the sounds of it, if u got a C in year 8 and then an A for maths, you should not have any problems with school grades. I only got a C in year 10 for maths :rolleyes:.

Im starting my flight training shortly and have asked this question many times, mostly the answers i got was that as long as you have at least 5 GCSE's C+ airlines wont mind, it is more about what A-Level grades you get and mostly, how many flying hours and licences you have and your personality. Also your ability to fly an airliner. Im not sure gaining those grades earlier will help, but they could, just not sure myself. Also your going to need alot of motivation when doing your flight training as your most probably going to have to cope with huge debts and being broke for a few years :ugh:.

Hope this helps and best of luck,

Gary Woodrow

future captain

20th May 2007, 13:26

Don't forget if an airline requires you to move to a base away from your parents place, you won't be able to fall back on them.

garywoodrow

20th May 2007, 13:36

i think if your only going to get a D for maths, as i was (i "dropped* it, well more like kicked out :hmm:) , i would consider dropping it and taking another subject which you will get a better grade in, for example ABB in ICT Double and say Busniess would be better than say, CCD, in maths, physics and Chemistry.

I have chosen to take ICT Double and Physics because im good at them, and this way it will help be get a job in ICT in companies which i am planning on doing to fund my training. To be honest, i know pilots with no GCSE's or A-Levels... as long as you have a decent knowledge of Maths and Physics for the ATPL exams you should be fine, A-Levels will just improve your chances of landing a job. So, study subjects your good at, not what you think airlines want.

Your in a similar situation to me, apart from you have more grades. I will be living with my parents as well and i too wont mind the debt (i say that now but i dont know in a few years lol).

future captain

20th May 2007, 23:09

I am concentrating on my GCSEs at the minute, therefore not spending as much time on it as I should be, but once these exams are over with... I'm going to work my a$$ off to get the grades I need for my life.
That's the best way, take each step in its stride.

Emkay

22nd May 2007, 15:44

Thank you Bergsflyer and Scroggs. I have already tried the ATC but unfortunately it wasn't my cup of tea, I guess I'm not a "hardcore" kind of person. Is university the best way then?

tornado617

22nd May 2007, 16:08

Hello folks!

I am starting my flight training at the start of the new year. However, i was going to start a couple of part-time A-level courses at college this september. I have recently come to the decision to start them either next year or some other time. I thought that Full-time work, part-time college and part-time ATPL study and exams + going abroad for my flight training would be to much of a risk.
Now to the point! is there any stage in modular flight training were A-levels are required? E.g. before you start a CPL you need to have them? Thank you!

Richard

5150

22nd May 2007, 16:27

Quick answer is No - there are no prerequisite academic requirements for any theoretical CAA exams which you refer to.

That's not to say that they're to your advantage if you do have them tho. . . :ok:

Kerosine

22nd May 2007, 21:02

if anything, I would say maths and physics are extremely useful and relevant, but as 5150 says, there are no actual entry requirments.

: D

Emkay

24th May 2007, 16:14

Airbus 38

I understand what you are trying to say but I think you have misunderstood me. I guess "not my cup of tea" was an understatement. The three months I stayed in the ATC was a waste of time IMO. It was all filled with field training, endless exercises, deliberate abuse and nothing at all to do with flying. I had originally misunderstood what the ATC was about, and after those knackering three months, I decided to quit, once and for all.

I guess I'm not what you call a loud hardcore teenager, but more civilized and quiet in that respect and I don't think I want to pursue a military career at all. I don't think the ATC is the only chance I have in becoming an airmen or pilot at all and I will try my best to go down a more civilized route and my endless motivation will keep fueling me.

scroggs

24th May 2007, 16:14

There is no requirement for maths and/or physics A-level for any stage of training, nor for entry to the vast majority of airlines. Do them if they interest you. Don't (and I really mean do not) do them if they don't interest you. You will be wasting valuable time and effort which could have been spent on something worthwhile.

Scroggs

Shay

25th May 2007, 08:00

Just reading out of interest, as a wannabe myself... finishing off A Levels this year, predicted AAAA in Maths, Physics, French and Law. Got 10 GCSE's at A or A*.. I have no idea what other people have got.. And I agree, only do the subjects in which your interest lies. I have a passion for Physics, and maths.. and therefore I am considering doing a MSc before training.. maybe not.. but at the end of the day it is up to the individual. I would not be going to university or I would not have done A Levels if I didn't want to. There is an educational route (believe it or not) suited to nearly everybody.. it just takes time to find yourself and find which suites you.

Good luck with everything :cool:

PS- I heard that C1 and C2 this year were rather deadly- you may have done better than you think :8

snoopy1107

25th May 2007, 11:34

Kababman/ Wannabe 69,

Guys you should really listen to what Pie has suggested, its really sound advice, im at University at the moment, joined the UAS and having the best days of my life; drink, woman, bunch of great guys uni and UAS, most of all tons of free flying. Stick in with the exams and good luck with whatever you guys choose to do.

Take it easy

Snoopy :ok:

dream747

8th Jun 2007, 03:59

Hi Scroggs and everybody,

So far in the thread I've picked up invaluable pointers and advice for doing a degree in what you really like and not just for the sake of it. And then maybe it could get you a job to fund for your flying training afterwards. But what if flying and aviation related operations are what I'm all only interested in, and it's all about what I want to do in life? Would the aviation degree be worth doing? From your experience, can this degree land you any other reasonably paid jobs in the aviation industry (flight planner, dispatcher.. etc?) in the unfortunate event if the flying plan doesn't work out?

As I know myself I think I'm not mature enough as an individual and academically to go straight out and learn to fly immediately and apply to airlines.. etc. I believe going to University will help me mature to learn how to be independent and aviation's all what I'm really interested in and like but I'm just wondering about the prospects of such a degree? As people have told me this degree is not one to have as a fall back as one basically can do nothing with it as half of the degree credits come from the flying training and the PPL-ATPL groundschool studies.

roll_over

20th Jun 2007, 20:51

I'll be doing a degree in Aeronautical Engineering at , hopefully, one of the better universities in the country. Then onto OAT for training.

What I'd like to know is, do major airlines differentiate between MEngs and BEngs?

I'd prefer a BEng since it is 3 years rather than 4 years and I'm eager to get flying for one of the major airlines.

Ideally I'd like not just to be a pilot, but a pilot with managerial responsibilities, will a degree help me with this i.e specialising in the engineering side of planes , or do I actually need to be a qualified engineer?

don't_ask_me

20th Jun 2007, 22:43

Now, sorry folks, but its all gone a bit confusing and fuzzy lately for me:\.

For all my life I have wanted to be an airline pilot. I also DID NOT want to go to university. I now have a more open mind and DO want to go to university. I am also exploring possibilities of an air traffic controller or some other aviation career, maybe engineering:8.

Now that I do want to go to university, I am looking at all the possible degrees and places to study. I want to do something in aviation, because that is what interests me. Almost anything will do, but could anyone suggest an exciting degree that would make any aviation employer sit-up? Maybe what I'm trying to ask is: Is there a well-recognised, all-round degree for aviation? Also, have some universities got a better reputation in the aviation industry than others?

I am currently studying in a 'Post-AS' period in a sixth form after cocking up my AS exams (but that's another subject).:oh:

Thanks in advance:ok:,
don't_ask

portsharbourflyer

21st Jun 2007, 07:50

Roll over,
Airlines will not care one bit that you have an aeronautical engineering degree, I have first time passes in all exams and flight tests and an aero degree and I am still looking for an airline job three years after quailifying (currently a flying instructor). Five of my course colleague did secure part or full sponsorships but none of these schemes exist anymore.

In which case a BEng is fine as you will be able to commence training more quickly.

Yes I did secure one interview for a SO position with a Middle Eastern airline due to the fact I hold an aero degree, but that is the only airline that has given my degree any consideration.
The only benefit the degree has is giving you a career to fund the training, however in engineering you will only earn sufficient funds by contracting, hence you will need at least five years experience; so I recommend that working in the finance sector is the better option. Otherwise forget the degree and become a Plumber or an Electrician.
As for going to OAT you are better off going modular and using the spare cash to fund a type rating.

There are technical pilot positions in airlines which require a technical background, I would have thought some industrial experience to accompany the degree would be required. At degree level aeronautical engineering is heavily orientated towards applied mathematics. Remember it is essentially mechanical engineering applied to aircraft, so if you wish to study engineering that is fine, the majority of the modules will be generic engineering subjects.

If your interest is aircraft only / flying you will not find aeronautical engineering particulary interesting.

roll_over

21st Jun 2007, 08:13

Is it reall of very little use at all? Can anyone else confirm this?

The problem is I'm sure if I came out of a flight school at age 20, airlines will surely think I'm too young, a degree would make me seem and surely be more mature , if you see what I'm getting at.

Thanks!

portsharbourflyer

21st Jun 2007, 08:47

As said it can provide you with a career to fund the flight training,
but remember the following
1) I didn't have to pay tuition fees, hence I came out of university debt free.
2) Graduate engineers salaries in my opinion are not that fantastic, considering how demanding the degree is compared to other subjects, especially if you have to move away from home and live independently.
3) The salaries were high enough for me to get a credit rating to borrow to fund my training; however it was contract earnings that cleared a reasonble amount of my debt, I was lucky that I was able to contract with minimal experience. On permanent staff salaries I would have struggled.
There are other things you could do to gain experience and improve your maturity and gain the finance to fund the training outside of doing a degree.
A degree is now a very expensive way to gain maturity and experience; do an engineering degree if you want or consider engineering as a career, but it is not something you will enjoy if flying is your only interest.
There is a massive shortage of licensed avionics engineers at the moment, consider trying to get an apprenticeship to become an avionics technician. The pay wont be great while an apprentice, but you will be paid while training rather than acquiring debt aswell as gaining a fall back trade, but it willl put you in a good postion to network. Majority of graduate engineers jobs are in design offices far removed from the "coal face" and not particulary good for networking.

lovezzin

22nd Jun 2007, 13:29

Yeah, i agree with the above post. I just about completed my degree in Aeronautical Eng. and through the recent selection process i attended at Agusta Wesland, they mentioned that they also had a shortage of avionics applicants.

A word of note to ppl considering Aero-eng, its not as specialised on aircraft as you think. Inustry dont know where to put you as its so broad, touching on ALL areas and hence i am fighting my guts out to even be conisdered for avionics (since it isnt an avionis degree - i was only exposed to 3 relevent modules in my entire 3 years!)

portsharbourflyer

22nd Jun 2007, 18:52

Well the term aero degree does need to be elaborated, aeronautical engineering degrees are not that broad, if you studied an aeronautical engineering degree approved by RAes and also the IMech it is recognised essentially as the same way as a mechanical engineering degree (I would like to point at at my university those that failed aeronautical engineering were allowed to transfer to the mechanical engineering degree; hence suggesting the straight mechanical degree was slightly less demanding). Hence as an aeronautical graduate you would expect to be offered a chance to move into flight dynamics, aerodynamics/CFD, Stress/FEA analysis etc.
It is true you can direct your degree towards certain areas by the modules you select.
That makes sense that you wouldn't expect to be accepted for avionics, it is the same as a mechanical engineer applying to work as an Electronic engineering position. Ironically the specialisations that you may end up working with under the banner of "mechanical" engineering (e.g. Stress, CFD etc) you may well have only studied about three modules relevant to the specialisation. It is certainly true most of your knowledge will be acquired while workings.

It is quite common for aeronautical graduates to move into software engineering, what you must remember is a software update for an aircraft system will come out every two years, a major avionics upgrade can be expected every five years, a new airframe about every thirty years, hence you can understand why avionics and system specialist are more in demand than "mechanical" trades.

a.smith01

24th Jun 2007, 17:19

I dont want to go to university because there is nothing in university i want to do.
I want to be a pilot.
I'm in my last year of A levels (A2) and i have decided to take a gap year to work, get some money, get a PPL, do volunteer work, and, hopefully, do the marathon des Sables. I may have to take an extra year out to do this.
After i finish doing all of this i will start my training to be a Commercial pilot.
I was wondering if this is a good plan and what would employers think when they see i've done all of this.

cheers.

captain_rossco

24th Jun 2007, 17:51

a.smith01

24th Jun 2007, 17:58

okkaaaayyyyy.
dentistry?
why dentistry?

captain_rossco

24th Jun 2007, 18:13

Smithy my man,

My point, rather than to confuse, was to suggest there are a multitude threads on this topic, a few on this page.

Dentistry, along with the other qualifications mentioned above, are by no means neccessary. There are many pilots out there without A-levels, although they tend to be a reasonable measure of ones commitment to learn (by modern standards). This is a must.

Have a search, weigh it up, and crack on my friend.

Kind Regards

CR

a.smith01

24th Jun 2007, 18:17

oooohhhh ok!
lol
yeah for a minute there i was kinda confused.
i wondering how dentistry could be useful to a pilot.

thanks alot.:)

captain_rossco

24th Jun 2007, 18:19

Good lad.

Enjoy.

redsnail

24th Jun 2007, 19:03

You don't need A levels to hold an ATPL but you certainly need them to be competitive when you're low houred or chasing sponsorship/cadetship.

WildDart

24th Jun 2007, 21:10

Yes 6 of them (at least)

A handful of vocational degrees are also essential (Law, Medicine and Dentistry a must).

On top of this, if you wish to get a even a look in with certain low-cost carriers, a Masters on you CV will just about get you through the 1st interview door.

Without the above and a back catalogue of A*'s at GCSE as well as proof that your were a school prefect you have absolutely no chance.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards

CR

PS. if this seems like a tall order, you may wish to have a wee look at the numerous threads regarding Further/Higher Education and aviation careers.:ok:

CR

What on gods earth are you smoking?

I wouldn't listen to him he is either messing around or on something...

Most places will only accept a levels on the application, min is normally 2 C's at a level. Play safe and do 3. ICT is a good one to get as you need to look to the future (and its easy to get an A)

Best bet is to do 2 years of a levels, resit any GCSE's that you may of messed up and during your school time do 1 lesson a week towards your PPL and you'll have it easily in the 2 years.

Then in theory you have the best of both worlds and a better chance of getting a carreer in aviation!

good luck with it, Nathan.

captain_rossco

24th Jun 2007, 21:31

WildDart

24th Jun 2007, 22:05

Wild Dart,

Am I to assume you did not immediately see that this was complete and utter sarcasm to the Nth degree?

Any sane person would have seen fairly quickly that my answer was in jest at some newcomers complete inability to search the forum for answers that are readily available.

So no, I have not been smoking, although I will take your words of wisdom into consideration before posting anything vaguely sarcastic again. I have obviously grossly overestimated the intelligence of the few people reading this thread, and their ability to grasp the most gobsmackingly obvoius sarcy(slang) remark I have made to date.

Regards

CR

Wild Dart, whilst we're you're here, what might you suggest a few of the boys on my course do, they don't have A-levels, Eeeek, back to college for them i suppose (sarcasm), but their spelling is, at least, on the good side(jibe).:ok:

Im sorry but i didn't realise you play child-like games when a member is asking a genuine question, at the very least you could at least point him in the right direction before attempting to make yourself look clever by sarcastim. This is reinforced by the fact you picked up on a couple of my typing errors which for the record is low and indeed quite sad. For whats it worth don't take this reply the wrong way or go into some more pointless sarcastic comments that obviously fulfill your time.:D

Nathan

captain_rossco

24th Jun 2007, 22:36

Where do I start.

ComeBackAtX-Mas

24th Jun 2007, 22:40

WildDart a sense of humour also helps in the cockpit, if he wanted an answer theres a search function with this topic covered a fair few times.

mcgoo

24th Jun 2007, 22:43

Rossco, bail out quick before its too late! :eek:

matt85

25th Jun 2007, 12:46

Pretty much correct I would have thought.

Mohit_C

25th Jun 2007, 13:25

Nice impact captain_rossco! The moment I saw 6 A levels (I've done 4 up to now) I thought....yeah right!

rziola

25th Jun 2007, 14:14

It goes without saying that with the amount of low hour boys and girls applying for the few jobs out there, the filtering process has to start somewhere. I am about to finish my grounds school (BGS) and have been looking at the next step in depth, to the extent that I was lucky to have lunch with the chief pilot of a Euro Low Cost. He made it clear that any CV’s without A-Levels or a Degree where thrown in the bin, this of course applies to us wannabe’s only. Even GCAT require A-Levels for the majority of type rating course (Airline sponsored), as do most other schemes. Of course, it all depends what you are aiming for, if you are happy flying a Caravan or would prefer to fly the nice shiny jets, the more competitive you are, the better.

Richard

captain_rossco

25th Jun 2007, 15:43

A-levels are a good thing, they reflect an individuals abilty to acheive what is still a fairly basic level of education.

Did I do 3 A-levels? Sort of, I did 6 AS levels, I thought, ' I can get the same number of UCAS points, but have fun learning about more than one subject'. ( and the exams are a doddle)

Fact is, what on earth is anybody going to do between finishing their GCSE's and turning, oh, I'd say 20(ish), the minimum age at which most airlines will even look at you? Probably nothing more beneficial than getting a few good grades at college.

As for the degree, who knows, it may come down to the person sifting through your 2 page life story on any given day, of all the boys I know in jobs, none of them have a degree between them.

I don't have one, and would not for one second even consider going back for one, that guy with a business studies or sociology 1st is just as likely to choke at interview as anybody else who hasn't got the metal to get through.

This debate has gone on for ever, in numerous threads, and to that end has probably answered every possible eventuality arising from every possible question.

So, my little darlings, get rid of your L-plates, do your pass plus, have a crack at some A-levels (or equivalent) and then we'll take it from there.

Regards

CR

ie. Yes, A-levels would be a good idea, if only because if you aren't at college you may be sniffing glue by the swings in a stolen Burberry coat

Boing7117

25th Jun 2007, 16:15

You don't need A-Levels or a degree to be a pilot.

But if you want to keep up with the competition that will most definitely be around you when you're doing groundschool, and indeed applying for the airline jobs - a decent educational background is an absolute must.

I've just finished groundschool at OAT. Purely, as an indication of the type of competition I might be up against, there are only 3 people without a degree and only 1 without A-Levels (out of 20 people)

So it stands to reason that if you're all reasonably bright people and you all do your flying training to a similar standard, how does an airline start the sifting process? I think it's rather obvious.

It is becoming more and more common, if not already the "standard", that a minimum of 2-A Levels and a degree is a basic requirement for any would-be pilot looking to secure a position in today's market.

Sure, they'll be plenty of folk that get their airline job without a degree and indeed probably without A-Levels but realistically, a young person, looking at what they should do at the age of 17/18 seriously needs to consider going to college, getting some A-Levels, then going to University, doing a degree they enjoy, learning a few life skills, maturing a bit - and then start looking at the flying career.

JangoA380

25th Jun 2007, 17:32

Hello, I have a question.

I don't have good grades for my A-levels but my GCSEs are all passed with with grades at C or above. The thing is I am doing a degree (Aviation related but not engineering) so would that compensate for me not having A-levels in terms of getting a pilot job?

It's not that I couldn't do the A-levels it was just that I was having a really bad time in my life at that point. Now that I am free from that, I am now getting better grades than people with really good A-levels at Uni and one of the best in my class.

Thanks,
Jango

garywoodrow

25th Jun 2007, 17:39

Im no expert but I can't see how it would effect you much, sure it would help to have good A-levels but many pilots have made it without A-levels or GCSE's. Doing a degree which is aviation related i would expect to help alot too.

Gary

Jimmy Macintosh

25th Jun 2007, 17:51

I had attrocious A-level results, but managed to get onto a degree.

For the first two jobs I had after graduating from Uni I had to explain the poor a level grades, thankfully I got a good 2:1 and could show the results of each part of my course for my final year. But I did have to explain what had happened.

Now no-one even asks about my a-levels, and my degree is literally do I have a degree of a certain level now.

This is your last chance, screw up the degree and you'll struggle for that first job, a friend at Uni got a girlfriend in the final year and decided to spend all of his time with her. He got a low 3rd, took him three years to get a job that he wanted.

Work hard, get a good degree, get in the industry that you want and then mistakes during your a-levels can be overlooked.

Of course with pilot training it's about the licences, ability and whether your face fits. So bad a-levels aren't necessarily going to hold you back. When I interviewed for the cadetship with BA I had to explain the poor a-levels, but that was it. But they were not the reason I didn't get it, had an extensive debrief about 6 months later and I know where I went wrong.

davepearsall

25th Jun 2007, 22:19

i didnt get great A leveles either but managed to get a degree. Any interviews I have been t don't takeinto account my A levels. Sometimes they can just be a stepping stone to the next stage. Much like GCSE's were to getting to A levels.

Felix Saddler

26th Jun 2007, 17:32

How can you get a degree if you don't a-levels? I thought it was a requirement to get onto a degree course?

adverse-bump

26th Jun 2007, 18:08

if you got bad a level results, what makes you think you are cut out for a degree course? not taking them is one thing, but failing is something else.

however, you dont need either to be a pilot, I wouldnt shout to much about getting C and above in your gcse's, because the guy behind you will be shouting even louder that he got 10 A*'s!

airborne_artist

26th Jun 2007, 18:40

How can you get a degree if you don't a-levels? I thought it was a requirement to get onto a degree course?My wife left school at 16.

She has no A-levels and a BA Hons 1st class. I know a guy who I think has only 3 O-levels (pre GCSE), and who also has a degree. Find the right college and show them the right stuff and they might let you in.

Don't forget that you can now earn UCAS points from a wide range of qualifications - list (http://www.merlinhelpsstudents.com/studentlife/beforeuniversity/ucas/ucaspointstable.asp)

Re-Heat

26th Jun 2007, 19:05

So long as you are trying hard to achieve your best, you should be fine.

On another note to some of the above, I am well past university, but the A-Levels are still a set criteria for a management job into which I am now moving.

motherbird

26th Jun 2007, 19:18

I didn't get A'levels but now have Masters Degree. Some courses accept students with 'life-experiences' as oppose to exam excellence.

Philpaz

26th Jun 2007, 19:23

I was a complete clown at school, got no GCSE's never mind A levels. Now i'm in a job that pays extremely well and i'm quite high up the company ladder. Nothings impossible, just choices you make early on in life set you down different paths. The path i took was through a marsh, you can still smell it when i'm blagging interviews lol. Now i'm doing my ATPL and it will be hard to get in the right hand seat but i'm sure with a bit of perserverance and some hard learnt interview skills i'll get on. Never say never and all that. Oh and my sister is doing some course which was soley set up to qualify you for uni, bridging course or something, i'll find out and update the post.
I do have some quals now btw, not kidding myself that i'll blag an airline job though i'm sure its been done before!

captain_rossco

26th Jun 2007, 19:33

million ways to get into uni these days,

bridging course, access course, hardship, mature student acceptance etc, as well as open university.

If you want that degree you can get it.

Regards

Rossco
:ok:

JangoA380

28th Jun 2007, 12:26

Good question. They did not accept me into the course that I wanted and they put me in a similiar course where people in the course that I wanted, had to do the course that they put me in for one year. As I said before everything was fine in my life when I entered university so I did very well on all exams and actually did way better than the guys on the course that I wanted to go to. They had really good A-levels but I still did better than them, and some of them even later left the course and went the oxford to do the integrated course. The Head of the course that I wanted to do saw my grades and he put me in the course instantly.

if you got bad a level results, what makes you think you are cut out for a degree course? not taking them is one thing, but failing is something else.
- adverse-bump

If you read my first post you would have noticed that I said I was having a rough time when I was doing my A-levels. And when I mean a rough time I mean a extremely bad time and I was young as well so that didn't help. Thats all gone now though so are doing pretty good in Uni thank God.

Thank you to everyone who replied so far, I really appreciate it.

abzyyy

4th Jul 2007, 20:14

does it matter when you take your a levels? because personally i've retaken a year, after having missed the exams due to personal reasons. All my gcse's were taken at the first sitting and all that but what about a levels? From what i know it doesnt really matter as long as you have them, coz i know alot of people who leave school after gcse's only to complete their a levels many years later!

captain_rossco

4th Jul 2007, 20:27

Don't even woryy about it abz.

I did all my as levels a a bit later than usual as i was involved in the family business, being worked like a dog by the old man!

Don't see it being a problem.

Regards

CR

abzyyy

4th Jul 2007, 20:39

Thanks Captain Rossco! :)

I guess I needed the reassurance. I've been having personal problems for a while and sometimes I think I may even end up completing them later than expected (Even though I'm already taking a year). But I'm going to keep at it because my passion is to fly. Just taking it a day at a time I guess.

captain_rossco

4th Jul 2007, 20:51

You're only gaining by going through a bit of strife matey, everybody does at some point, friends, family, work etc.

It's a real measure of your 'metal' how you deal with these things as they come up, flight training is a reasonably big ask, and our abilty to cope with the rather unfair ****e that gets thrown at us now and again, no matter what it is, should only make you that little bit tougher.

Regards

CR

smiffym1

7th Jul 2007, 21:02

I've just finished my AS level exams and will be continuing next year to complete the A level course. However, I have decided to drop Physics as I would prefer to get 3 very good A level grades as oppose to 2 good A-Level grades and a poor Physics grade. Is this the right thing to do?

I really want to go to University before pursuing a career as a pilot however i am not sure what course to do. Although, with limited financial access, courses involving pilot studies are pretty much out of the question and im not really interested in doing a course on a core subject such as maths or sciences. Would it be better to get a degree in something to do with aviation such as 'Air transport and Management' or just go for something completely different such as Business studies.?

Many Thanks:)

abzyyy

7th Jul 2007, 21:48

from what ive heard so far. It doesnt really matter. In fact, there are pilots with art and economics a levels. As long as you have GCSE's in maths and science. The a levels dont really matter. Minimum is 2 a levels, whatever it may be.

F/O UFO

21st Aug 2007, 18:15

Hi, (1st post on these forums so I’ve probably put this in completely the wrong place) anyway, I've got my college interview next week when I have to definitively decide what AS levels to take. So far I've decided on maths and physics for certain but have no idea for the other two!!

For the record my ambition is to become a commercial airline pilot:)

Thanks

bri1980

21st Aug 2007, 18:28

Maths and physics are important for pilots. After that it's up to you really.

Something business-related might be useful in later life-airlines like pilots with business sense!

B

AlphaMale

21st Aug 2007, 19:34

I took Maths and Physics A'level and 2 A'levels in IT.

Something had to give due to so much coursework with IT and I dropped out of Physics, you might find some schools (like my school) won't allow you to take Physics A'level without it being accompanied by an A'level in Maths.

My plan was always to work in IT to fund my flight training, and should I fail to make it as a pilot then it's a pretty good back up. I went to University and studied IT also.

It seems the ATPL exams require a good understanding of maths and physics so an A'level in these subjects would prove useful.

If you have to pick 3 A'levels then I'd pick a subject your good at and that could pay for your flight training, Art / Drama / PE / Media Studies isn't going to pay the bills :bored: .... Business Studies or IT should.

Good luck

L'aviateur

21st Aug 2007, 22:27

Advice: You don't need A levels to get a PPL, CPL/IR, ATPL, you don't even need GCSE's. It's not a pre-requesit.
The truth is, it will probably help a great deal though, especially for the Mathematics and Science theory. As for getting a job, well maybe extra things on your CV will be noticed, otherwise that's down to how adaptive you are in the interview. If your not good at talking, maybe extra qualifications will help.

Whirlygig

21st Aug 2007, 22:41

It's not a pre-requesit.
For some schools it IS a prerequisite. The truth is, if you don't have qualifications, life (and the ATPL exams) will be much harder. Don't put yourself at a disadvantage academically.

Cheers

Whirls

F/O UFO

22nd Aug 2007, 09:53

I am decided on maths (mechanics) and physics. I have narrowed down the options of the other 2 to either;

English Lang

Geography

Politics

Economics

Computing

Thanks

Whirlygig

22nd Aug 2007, 10:03

If I had your CV in front of me, I would like to see English Language and either Computing or Geography (in that order).

Cheers

Whirls

F/O UFO

22nd Aug 2007, 10:25

Thanks Whirlygig, may I ask from what point of view would you be looking for those qualifications?

I think it's pretty much decided on Geography as the third, I feel doing English would kill me and I don't want to be stuck in front of a computer any more than I already am!

Thanks

AlphaMale

22nd Aug 2007, 10:26

I wouldn't take too much notice of post #4, you don't need it on paper to show your good at maths and physics but a qualification in the subject will do you no harm.

He is right saying that GCSE's and A-levels wont count for much after you gain a self sponsored 0-fATPL or an Ab-Inito.

But keep your options open for sponshorships like this:
http://www.cabair.com/sponsorship/index.htm

Have an absolute minimum of two A levels, to include Mathematics and Physics (or science based subjects).

I think the choices you've put up are good, Maths & Physics will make your ATPL's easier to digest and possibly get you on a sponshorship. The other 2 A-levels will aid your chances on getting to the flight deck as well as support a backup career. :ok:

F/O UFO

22nd Aug 2007, 10:44

Hmmmmm this 4th AS level is annoying me!

I would just take 3 and have some more time to spend on the others, but I expect that it's better to have a 4th regardless of what it is!

Whirlygig

22nd Aug 2007, 10:54

I recruit finance and administrative roles. If you wanted or needed another job outside flying, then my advice would stand for many positions.

If you don't have English Language AS Level, then your CV and covering letter would have to be perfect in order to convince me that your use of English was up to scratch!

Cheers

Whirls

gliding_bum

24th Aug 2007, 21:05

Hey all this is my first post here and i have got a question that hopefully all you pilots ou there will be able to help me with.

Firstly a little background. I am 18 and currently about to start my 3rd and final year of an apprenticeship and want two things to happen as soon as i can escape the company i work for. I would love to go off to uni and i would love to start my pilot training. Is it worth waiting until the degree is over to start the training or would it be benificial to do one of the BA/BSc degres run by Cabair at various uni's? My parents said they may be able to stump up the cash for the Degree+uni route but not one after the other as my dad is due to retire. Although i would feel guilty about taking such a large amount of cash off of the 'old man'.

I have only ever wanted to be a pilot and i know that that is where i will be happiest earning my bread but i'm currently finishing off an engineering apprenticeship :ugh: and dont know which route to take. Is the degree worth it or should i go straight for the training?

Bum

r44flyer

24th Aug 2007, 22:43

This has been discussed many times on here, so it may be worth having a search for similar threads and giving them a read.

It's always difficult to judge whether a degree is going to be worth it or not, and the arguments for integrated training versus modular training always appear here. If you are applying for a sponsored training position such as that offered by CTC, Cabair/Flybe etc, it is arguable that a degree would be beneficial in that it would make you more attractive than someone with similar background but without a degree, especially if said degree is related to aviation.

However, if you go the modular route and work a job alongside your training as you pay-as-you-fly, as it were, then, in my opinion, your flying experience/currency/ratings will probably count for more than a degree when applying for a first job. On the other hand, if you end up in the pool of unemployed commercial pilots chasing jobs then you'll need something to give you the edge, and a degree might be that thing... so you see it's swings and roundabouts.

Financially, as you have been working for 3 years you would be classed as an independent student and therefore you qualify for financial assistance not offered to those coming straight from school, such as a £1000 grant each year of your degree, which, by definition, you don't have to pay back. You can also get grants by way of the hardship fund, so if you're skint and can prove it, you get more financial help. You'll still be in a lot of debt in terms of student loan, but it's the cheapest loan you'll ever get and you don't start paying it back until your salary reaches a certain threshold. If you earn that salary as a commercial pilot, for an airline say, it will be a small fraction of your monthly pay that you'll never see.

One plus point is your age, you're still young, and if you're quick you MAY get a uni place this year so you'll be about 21 when you're done.

Otherwise, work your socks off and perhaps take out a career development loan to help fund training, get several hundred hours with a CPL/IR and AN INSTRUCTOR RATING as the best way to stay current and employable as a pilot, and fire off CVs left, right and centre to land that first job, if the airlines is where you want to go.

It may be worth noting that several sources indicate that the rate of expansion and pilot employment/training has never been so high and is set to remain high, or increase, in the years ahead. So, consider that when you decide what you want to do. As for actually predicting what the industry will do in 3 years time, it's hardly an exact science. I was in your position some years ago now but the decision was largely made for me thanks to Sept 11th. The chances of sponsorship, or even a commercial job of any kind, looked immediately bleak, so I went to uni to wait until it picked up.

Remember also that it's not all about the job: uni will be a great experience, you'll meet new people and you'll have a fantastic time.

CAT3C AUTOLAND

25th Aug 2007, 09:30

I think R44flyer has pretty much hit the nail on the head with his/her post. You dont need a degree to become a pilot, but as has been mentioned it is another string to your bow.

I went down the Uni road, however, not really through choice, as I was trying to get sponsorship, which I was not successful with. As R44 said, going to Uni and maybe even working for a while is great life experience.

The company I presently work for have been taking alot of new pilots, and some are very young, I cannot imagine what it must be like at the age of 20 to be an airline pilot!

Good luck with what you decide to do, and enjoy it :ok:.

grababadger

28th Aug 2007, 20:58

I spent 6 years at uni, 2 years HND aerospace, 2 years aircraft maintenance (EASA B1-theory) and 2 years top up to an aircraft engineering degree.

Just started the PPL (self-funded) and am finding that my previous theoretical knowledge gained from uni has helped me with ppl exams and given me the ability to interpret technical information with ease.

At the age of 24 im not sure whether I should apply for sponsorship, ill see how I feel post PPL.

To prospective pilots my advise would be do the A-levels (maths, phys etc), then do a foundation degree in an aircraft maintenance. This will really help you understand the aicraft and its systems. Then do the PPL and if you really like it apply for sponsorship, failing that look at alternative ways of funding the ATPL-there are so many.

If it all goes wrong then you can fall back into aircraft maintenance and keep flying as a hobby, whatever happens remain positive.

Good luck folks.......

rick0

29th Aug 2007, 15:14

Hey guys,

quick question - would airlines really prioritise applicants with bad a levels/no a levels over those with AAAA's?

thanks

rick0

29th Aug 2007, 20:48

anyone? kinda urgent =|

rikesh

29th Aug 2007, 23:03

hello,

received my GCSE results last week, did well enough to get into any A-level course so that's all good.

i want to become a commercial airline pilot and have had this desire for a long time now. some of you may remember my post on this forum a while back.

anyway i know maths and physics A-levels are a requirement to become a pilot. i am also quite sure i want to take further maths and economics alongside, as i enjoy the subjects. however, i have been recommended by my college to take 5 AS levels (1 extra). they have suggested electronics.

was just wondering if there was any other A-level out there which would be of any more benefit to me in pursuing the airline pilot career, that perhaps i should choose as my fifth?

bear in mind that i dont know whether i'll be able to cope with an extra A-level so i may drop it within a month, depending on the situation. also, i understand that the choice is all mine, so no one's comments will become my decision.

i would just like some help from those who have the experience/knowledge, since not many do around here. thankyou very much.

future captain

29th Aug 2007, 23:12

"anyway i know maths and physics A-levels are a requirement to become a pilot."

Not really, maybe for some "schemes" but talking generally that's not true.

Take subjects YOU will enjoy and not your college/sixth form. My advise would be don't take 5 "killer" alevel subjects go for the maths and physics if you like them, but take another to :cool:

Good luck!

AlphaMale

29th Aug 2007, 23:30

Same question a couple of days ago. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=288938)

BClouds

30th Aug 2007, 05:25

hey i personally took math, physics and geography.

grababadger

30th Aug 2007, 21:47

Hey Rick,

If you are applying for sponsorship then more than likely 'yes' it will make a difference.

Yet if you are going down the self-funded route-then I think they will be more interested in how many flying hours you have and where you trained.

If you goto UNI then they will be more interested in what degree you have.

Don't worry if you get bad results as you are still very young and there are so many routes you can take.

Just out of interested, what a-levels do you have?

rikesh

31st Aug 2007, 09:02

appt today with college

im going to go ahead with the choices stated, hopefully electronics isnt too solid

i'll drop it if i'm struggling after a month or so

thanks everyone for the help

rick0

31st Aug 2007, 19:23

Grababadger, thank you for replying.

I've just done my AS levels and yeah, I did badly. To make it worse, I naively dropped my 3rd subject at the start of the year. So at the moment - 1 AS level (I failed one) :( I blame this due to other reasons (personal) so now I am reluctant to go back and I am not really keen on other options avaliable.

So, if I got through an intergrated course and were sitting at an interview - would these interviews give one if they saw only AS levels on my CV?

As for the sponsorship, I can't imagine i'd get through.

Cheers

Re-Heat

31st Aug 2007, 21:45

Rick,

Personal reasons are an excuse, not a reason - take responsibility for the failure, go back, retake, and improve before you lose the chance forever. You're right about the consequences, so this shock should motivate you to clean your record for the better. Your state of mind is what will enable you to succeed.

Best of luck.

grababadger

1st Sep 2007, 12:53

Rick,

Im no expert, but unless you are going straight onto an integrated course I'd advise either re-sitting, or doing well enough to go onto uni, which is not always that difficult, although uni is very expensive. Maybe think about doing a HND in aeronautical eng or equivalent.

Don't be worried too much at this stage you have time on your side. You could always spend an extra year at college doing an A-level.

If you are going straight onto an integrated couse (self-funded) then I doubt its going to make a huge a difference, providing you have decent GCSE's C's, B's etc.

If you want advise on uni courses etc then just drop me msg and I will help out where I can.:ok:

grababadger

1st Sep 2007, 16:22

Rick,

You may have seen this already:

http://www.cabair.com/kingston/index.htm

Take a look it may be of interest to you, not sure what a-levels you need but expect quite low considering its a foundation degree.

121ace

2nd Sep 2007, 14:19

Rick, please pay close attention. What re-heat has said is a very valid point. Let me tell you a little about myself. In sep 2005 I started my AS levels, I had come to from a private school to a state college. The sense of freedom and the ability to bunk lessons was overwhelming. Little did I know it would lead to my failure that summer. Come results in Summer 2006 I got the following grades: PHYSICS:E, MATHS:E, PE: D, GEOGRAPHY: C. This was quite clearly ridiculous and so I considered my options (I was in the same position as you are know). I came to realisation that these rubbsih results were due to my stupidity and laziness. I knew I had always wanted to be a pilot so why so I guve up now? A levels were really the best way forward. I'm not sayin to anyone that they must do A levels. But those of you with common sense: when you go to do your ground training for your ATPL, who do you think is going to cope better: those who have B's and C's at GCSE or those with A levels.

I decided to switch colleges as a change of environment and friend was sure to bebeneficial. I started my first year at the new college in Sep 2006, I got my grades this summer: PHYSICS: B, MATHS: B, GEOGRAPHY: B. Just one more year before I go to uni.

For those of you wannabe pilots in the same situation as me i.e. Not sure what to do at uni consider the following courses
They are listed in my order of preference:

1.BSc (hons)Air Transport Operations: Year 1: UNI, Year 2: OXFORD AVIATION (ATPL), YEAR 3: UNI (PART TIME)............CITY UNI, LONDON

2.BA (Hons) Air Transport with Commercial Pilot Training..........Buckinghamshire Chilterns University

3. BSc (hons)Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies......LEEDS UNI

There are at least another 5 more relevant to pilots. Let me know if you want to find out about them:)

jordanpolonijo

14th Sep 2007, 12:29

Inevitably like so many on here I hope to one day become a commercial airline pilot but right now I am deciphering which degrees to apply for as my UCAS is due in by my college on the 1st November.

I was after advice on which undergraduate course would put me in a strong position for FTO acceptance after graduation. I am wondering what course is best to give me all the knowledge, understanding, skills and improve my apptitide through flight practice ( maybe PPL ).

So far i have researched the following courses:

Leeds- Aviation Studies with Pilot Studies
Brunel- Aviation Engineering with Pilot Studies
City- Aviation Management with ATPL
Kingston- Aviation Studies for Commercial Pilot Training with BSC top-up
Queen Marys UCL - Aerospace engineering , Avionics
Loughborough- Aerospace Engineering

Also with the engineering degree i wondered if studying to M.eng level would be benefical in the long run.

Any advice from people who have taken similar type courses or have/or still are studying on these courses would be greatly beneifical.

At the moment i sway toward the Leeds course as i have a friend who graduated fromt here with a Bsc and PPL and is now on the c2c Cadet programme. Following that I am very interested in the two engineering courses.

Many thanks
:)

scruggs

14th Sep 2007, 12:47

Also with the engineering degree i wondered if studying to M.eng level would be benefical in the long run.

It will certainly help studying to the MEng level for some of the aerospace graduate schemes. I'm not sure if it's going to be of great benefit for your ambitions of becoming a commercial pilot. One thing to ensure is that whatever engineering degree you do - (if you go down that path) - make sure it's accredited.

There are a few threads on here already about what degree to do, where to do it, or if you need one at all! Do a quick search, that should throw up something of interest to you.

S

skyhighbird

14th Sep 2007, 13:21

Many opinions on this. I mean I think it is rare for an 18 year old who has just finished A-Levels to go straight onto/ or be accepted on an ATPL course and be in the RHS at 20 years old. But I'm sure it does happen.

I've heard that recruitment officers like to see personality, someone who has lived a bit, earned people skills, earned team work skills - whether it be through university/ from working. You see, if you leave after A-levels, do you have Team work skillls? Have you learnt to deal with scenarios where you were under pressure? Or had to make key decisions? You only get this from either Uni/work.

SO I doubt very much that the degree course you choose has a large bearing (BA in David Beckham/ Needle work is a different matter though!!) on whether you will be accepted on to an ATPL course or not.

I have A-Levels in Maths and Physics and a degree in Aeronautical Engineering. But if I can't do the pilotapt tests, then I won't be accepted. Simple as that.

My advice would be to have a degree where you can fall back upon if the pilot thing don't work out. I could still work for Airbus/Rolls Royce if I wanted to or any other technical job.

Naturally, the courses you mentioned will stand out - but only at Phase 1 of a selection procedure. If you can't do percentages/long division and the pilotapt tests I mentioned, then you won't be accepted.

XXX

jordanpolonijo

14th Sep 2007, 16:37

surely your mathematics will improve on any aviation or aerospace degree programme and so will your apptitude if you are taken a ppl ( like at leeds ) as part of your course?

However, failure at FTO acceptance would render the aviation studies degree useless. Although an engineering degree would keep many doors open.

Is it not jst a case of work hard, study hard and learn to fly. Dedicate yourself to your goal and it should become reality?

Andy120

14th Sep 2007, 19:44

Same situation, finished my A levels not sure if i should attend university or go straight into aviation training. Having passed my PPL a few months ago i decided to withdraw myself from my university course. Now im going to Oxford School of aviation. However i can only do this because of the financial backing of my parents ( lucky for some eh? ). Also iv'e heard thats british airlines look for EXPERIENCE rather than what degree you have. I know a guy that has a MEng Aerospace Systems Engineering , an ATPL, a job as a flying instructor and less than 1000 hours under his buckle. I guess he's just unlucky but the moral of the story i guess is not to spend money on a degree, when that money could be used getting yourself a commercial license at an early age and begin hour building and experience.

Han 1st Solo

15th Sep 2007, 00:58

Hi all.

As far as most of the courses are concerned I have no basis to comment. The Leeds university degree is another matter. As far as the course content or validity is concerned I am a unsure to its overall worth, i'm sure many of the students that have completed the degree will agree with that, it has been filled with many irelevant modules, this is I believe improving though. It does however have many valid modules that will be very useful when undertaking the commercial exams. However I will say this, the airlines and commercial schools do seem to like this course. Out of the 20 students to have completed the 1st year of the course, and hense the only year to have then really gone on to complete commercial training 1 is at 1st choice, 3 at BA Citiflyer, 1 at DHL, 1 on the highland sponsership scheme, 1 at flybe, 1 instructing and very well placed to move into the airlines sometime soon, 2 in the forces 1 as a pilot, and 1 still at CTC, the others on the course have not really pursued a serious career in aviation, fairly good stats in my eyes, of the other years to graduate many have got into OAT, CTC, and Jerez, and some sponsored by netjets,cathay and air atlantic, again a much higher percentage than the national average i'm sure.

If you are wanting to do a degree and then go onto commercial flight training then it does seem this degree gives you a slight edge, particularly at CTC, but again its not the be all and end all. I have extensive knowledge as to the flight training side of the course (although not as extensive as at one point) not so much the academic side of the course although I know many if not all that do.

Any questions feel free to pm me or ask on the thread and i'll do my best to answer them or refer u to someone who can.

regards,

Han.

PS. From my experience of this course the social side of uni at leeds is excellent so if thats what your looking for then its a good place to study whatever degree you take.

TTango

16th Sep 2007, 18:29

Out of the five people in my dissertation group on the Leeds course that graduated in June, three are going to FTE as tagged students. The other two are yet to apply. I know one guy got on the netjets scheme as well.

meas777

26th Nov 2007, 20:05

How many 'Professional Pilots' are out there currently working for an Airline without A-levels quals? If so did u all go down the 'self sponsored' route, and was it difficult to find work after, were they looking to the ones with more background quals than yourself?

Thanks

dartagnan

26th Nov 2007, 21:02

please, you should change your title. we know you are asking a question and you are not answering!!!!

Mercenary Pilot

26th Nov 2007, 21:10

How many 'Professional Pilots' are out there currently working for an Airline without A-levels quals?Quite a few.

If so did u all go down the 'self sponsored' routeNo, but in this day and age you wont get sponsorship (such as CTC) without A levels.

and was it difficult to find work afterIt's hard to find work, 'A' levels or not. If you are studying for them then stick with it, it certainly does help but if you left school years ago then its not the end of the world.

were they looking to the ones with more background quals than yourself? I think the honest answer is yes. However there is a hell of a lot more to flying airliners then exam results when you were a kid and there are many many excellent pilots who were educated in the university of life instead.

:ok:

P.S. Chill out dartagnan!!! :p

DaveD

29th Nov 2007, 16:31

I'm 22 years old and flying is all I can see myself doing in the years to come, as a job (commercially).

The question I'm posed with is do I have what it takes? My maths would always be my let down since it's not one of my strongest subjects..

As far as I've gathered from reading this forum, you mainly need A Level qualifications if it comes down to sponsorship, but if your lucky enough to have the money to fund your own ATPL then its not as much as a "must have", is this correct?

I'm aiming to get my PPL done next year, then look towards funding my own ATPL after the 150 hours of flying needed.

What I'm worried about most of all is whether i actually have what it takes?, maths was never one of my strong points but with the years ahead of me I'm hoping to get up to the required standard..

Can anyone give me some feed back by people who have been through this already and any advice?.

CocoCue

27th Apr 2009, 16:42

Hello, I'm currently in Year 10, and aged 15. (England).

I have chosen Core Science, Core Maths, Core English, ICT, Btec Business Studies, French and History.

I was wondering if I have to do Additional Science (Or the like) and do A Level Physics in due course.
This means I will have to drop History and do Additional Science and work extra hard to catch up.

Bottom line is, do I need A Level physics to be a commercial pilot?

Also, will be an Air Cadet help me, with or with out A Level physics?

All help is really appreciated as I really want to 'peruse a dream'.

Kindest regards,
CocoCue

maxdrypower

27th Apr 2009, 16:49

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/131649-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html

Gave alook this in depth it will answer all your questions if not then post with what you need to know
good luck

Vems

27th Apr 2009, 18:35

Again..

All you need is a hell lot of determination, motivation and money :E

A Levels etc, will do you good when you're applying for jobs, it's pretty obvious who they're going to choose..

A - Low hour pilot without A Levels
B- Low hour pilot with A Levels..

In the current climate.. none, but when it gets better, I think B has better chances ;)

preduk

27th Apr 2009, 19:42

You don't need it but it would be very helpful however what I will say is that if you are expecting an A in History or a D in Physics then obviously History would be a better idea.

iranair777

24th Jun 2009, 11:10

Hello all,
I am currently 17 (18 in about 2 weeks) and have already done 2 years of AS levels, one year at Twyford C of E high school (failed that year) and tried again this year at Uxbridge college (at the moment going quite well). I've chosen Physics, Maths and ICT for AS and A2. In my january exams in Uxbridge, I got a CCA (A being ICT). I think/hope I have got anything about a C in the summer exams that I've done so I can go onto A2. My GCSE grades are also good with 5 B's in important subjects (including Geography) and C's in other uniportant subjects.
What we have started doing is applying for University. I at the moment have Kingston and Brunel on my list of potential universities I want to go to, but I still have to find a definite list on the web of universities which do Pilot studies which includes getting a ATPL.
What I need to know (as well as the above) Is the Kingston university course a good one and if I don't pass my A2, will I still be able to apply or have any other educational route to get into a pilot studies course?

I am intending to follow my dream whatever happens, but it will be easier (and cheaper) If I do go to university to persue it.

Thanks

1mag1n3

24th Jun 2009, 22:31

Guys, I have already got 2 A Levels at grade A. I am awaiting results for 2 more, due this August. I am hoping to get AAAC overall in Maths, Further Maths, Geography and Physics, respectively.

I simply am stuck with what to do next. I have a result pending to work for Air Traffic Control with NATS, and an interview booked to work for a cruise liner, as a navigation officer.

With my hopefully strong 4 A Levels in respected subjects, I was wondering if it would be better for me to simply go into clearing, and see what courses are available, such as the Leeds course which seems rather good. If you did that as well as the UAS, you would be laughing with probably over 80 hours logged flying time.

I am a bit stuck at the moment with my options running short. I had applied for Maths, but to be honest dont really want to follow this since all I want to become, is a pilot...

Advice?
:ok:

tomspencer

20th Sep 2009, 18:04

hi guys, i have just started college, and i was wondering if physics a-level is a requirement to become a commercial pilot? i am already taking maths, and didn't know if physics was necessary (i have a physics gcse grade A)
cheers

LMM21

20th Sep 2009, 18:43

As far as im aware you just need physics and maths at GCSE although a good grade in those subjects at A-level would look good on your CV.

Scott Duch

20th Sep 2009, 23:12

Today is my first day of studying Aeronautical Engineering.....next stop, airline pilot training!:)

Genghis the Engineer

21st Sep 2009, 08:39

Today is my first day of studying Aeronautical Engineering.....next stop, airline pilot training!:)

You might want to concentrate on aeronautical engineering for much of the next three years, or you may as well duck out now and borrow the money for OATS since without persuading yourself that aeronautics is interesting and worthwhile, you'll never survive the course. You'll also get little help from your peers (who are interested in engineering) if they think you're only interested in airline flying - and you will rely upon them.

G

Genghis the Engineer

21st Sep 2009, 08:44

Tommm

21st Sep 2009, 21:20

It is quite interesting to read the posts from when this thread was started (April 2001), and how the attitude to degrees, and their importance has changed.

As an 17 year old in second year of A-level studies, I feel i should be going to uni, however, i see it as an unecessary debt and would only be lengthening the time between now and my goal (airline pilot).

What are the current views on Degrees? Are they necessary, or would A-Levels get me where I need alone? I currently have my AS levels: Maths (A), Physics (B), Psychology (B).

ba038

21st Sep 2009, 23:42

HI ,same situation as you,if i were you GO TO UNI!!!!!

In this economic climate,espicially the airline industry

Reason why = there are no jobs out there for us wannabes at the given time and moment ,just go to uni and enjoy uni life and thus you are more employable to variouse employers and older and maturer/

thats just my opinion.

(sorry about the spelling mistakes im realllly tired)

k_hunjan

14th Nov 2010, 20:12

i'm 15, and i want to go on to do a degree in aeronautical engineering while learning how to fly, and not just because i have to. i was wondering which universities are good for the course i want to do. obviously, i have researched this myself as well, but i was hoping i could get some feedback from someone else. thanks:)

fabbe92

15th Nov 2010, 08:06

How much does it Cost to go to uni in the uk, anyway? I live in Sweden and I want to study aeronautical engineering but there are no courses here. So I have to move abroad and the UK is my first option. So how expensive is it for a foreign student with housing and everything? I believe this Will be another fine amount that I have to pay back on top of the cost for flight training.

jacollins8152

18th Nov 2010, 12:38

Trafford College :: (http://www.trafford.ac.uk/sixninemarket/2/38)

Have a look at the link attached .

This is a course that's offered that is excellent preparation for Pilot training. See if you can find something nearer to home. ( Though I'd had local councils pay for students living accomodation to move to Manchester as the course wasn't available near them.)

The course doesn't cost anything for someone under 19 - Its the equivilent to 3 A levels.

And to the sceptics out there . No I'm not trying to sel anything. I don't need to I'm one of the few good guys. We don't need to overtly advertise or charge . We are always over subscribed. We are the best at what we do . Just trying to offer help and advice.