FAA Training in the UK: the legalities

[porridge]

Here it is hot off the Press and straight from the horse’s mouth, explained in the manner of FAQ’s;
From the student/clients perspective:

Q: I have a N-reg aircraft and I need to do my BFR and IPC in it what must I do to ensure legality of the check flight or train for a FAA pilot certificate?
A: You have to fax the Dept of Trade on 0207 944 2194, asking for permission stating the period during which you wish to have paid instruction on the aircraft. It must be your aircraft (or the pilot must be flying on behalf of the owner).You have to supply copies of: C of A, C of R, Current Insurance Certificate, latest annual maintenance record, Copy of the trust paperwork showing that you are the beneficial owner of the aircraft. You must also provide the details of the instructor/s who will be providing the training.

Q: Can I do my BFR/IPC in a G-reg aircraft?
A; Yes, as long as the instructor holds a JAA CPL & Instructors rating as well as the FAA certicates.

Q: Can I renew my JAA/CAA ratings, or receive training for these in my own aircraft?
A: Yes, but you must apply on each occasion to the D of T as previously stated.

Q: I have complied with the D of T requirements, but the instructor has only FAA licenses and Instructors certificates, if the D of T has given me permission to use him am I legal?
A: No – the D of T and the CAA are two different entities. The CAA can invoke ANO Article 21, which prohibits “any training in any aircraft” by anyone who does not hold the relevant JAA licenses.

Q: I know my instructor has the correct FAA certificates, but I have not ascertained if he/she holds JAA compliant licences could I be prosecuted if I am unaware of this and I am still flying in my N-reg aircraft?
A: ICAO and the Chicago convention states that anyone operating an aircraft of another registry in another state will default to the regulations of that state. Thus you may liable to prosecution. It is therefore up to that state if they wish to prosecute you.

Q: I have a G-reg aircraft; may I receive training in this aircraft for a FAA certificate?
A: Yes, but the instructor you use must have a JAA Instructor rating, to be paid he/she must have a Commercial License, and to make the training compliant have a FAA CFI rating. (Note for some certificates, a non-FAA rated instructor can do part of the training – e.g.: a JAA instructor or even a safety pilot can do 25 hours of FAA IR).

Q: I have a friend who wants to use my N-reg aircraft for obtaining his FAA certificate; can I hire it to him?
A: No, he must be a co-owner and again apply on his own behalf to the D of T to train on the aircraft in the same manner you have done and specify the instructor’s details.

Q: Can I do my FAA check ride in the UK?
A: Yes, you are PIC on test so you can do it in either a G-reg or N-.aircraft. However, the FAA examiner could insist on do the test in a N-reg aircraft. (Note there are reciprocal arrangements in place for mutual testing in the UK/USA).

Q: My training provider insists that they are fully compliant with the law to do my training should I confirm this with the CAA and the D of T or take his word?
A: No, you should in every case make sure what you are doing complies with the law of the state where your training is taking place.

If anyone needs any further verification please PM and I will provide you with the contact details for the Legal Department of the CAA.

[IO540]

porridge,

Looking at your profile and your other posts on PP it appears that you are an instructor in the South East, don't work for the CAA, and perhaps do some freelance FAA training? I would guess that what you write is a compendium of info obtained from various places.

I'd like to know how much of it is reliable. For example can you provide the legal references for this paragraph:

--------------
Q: I have a G-reg aircraft; may I receive training in this aircraft for a FAA certificate?
A: Yes, but the instructor you use must have a JAA Instructor rating, to be paid he/she must have a Commercial License, and to make the training compliant have a FAA CFI rating. (Note for some certificates, a non-FAA rated instructor can do part of the training – e.g.: a JAA instructor or even a safety pilot can do 25 hours of FAA IR).
--------------

Where does the "25 hours" come from? FAR/AIM 2005 page number please :O

Some of the other stuff is also incorrect, according to the DfT (this week). They don't need instructor details, for example.

You also omit to mention that the permission is required only if the instructor is paid. The DfT was very clear on that.

It's great to put together the current info on N-reg training rules all in one place, but we need references, and there must be no obvious errors.

Anyone contacting the DfT should telephone Roger Kinsey there on 0207 944 5847 to establish their precise requirements (which vary from day to day) before sending them any information whatsoever.

[Keygrip]

............and there only needs to be one copy of it.

Which one do you want - this one or the identical post in "Instructor/Examiner forum"?

You've been around long enough to know not to do that!

[porridge]

Keygrip - re duplicate postings
As this will be of interest to both Private Pilots and Instructors this poses a dilemma. Not all Instructors read the Private forum, and vice versa I thus duplicated it. Seriously, what do you suggest?

<<edit: I 100% agree with the demographics dillema - so, post in both, but put a link in one of them taking the reader to the other one - then you only get one set of answers>>

IO540 - you are correct in your assumptions about my profile. As to my sources they are the recent article in the AOPA GA magazine about "FAA training opening a can of worms", and a meeting with an Investigation Officer from the CAA Legal Adviser's Department. PM me if you want the details of how to contact them for further clarification.
FAA IR training: Refer 61.65 Instrument rating requirements: paragraph (d) Aeronautical experience: point (2): A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time on the areas of operation, to include 15 hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in the aircraft category for which the instrument rating is sought.
Hope that answers the questions, but I am trying to somehow get the message out to fellow aviators about the ins and outs of the situation so neither Instructor or Pilot/owner falls foul of the law and get prosecuted. Thank you for your point about the DfT not needing the instructor details, that's an update I was not aware of. However, I am certain of the fact as far as the CAA advised that article 21 is clear that any non-jaa rated pilot may not give any instruction in any aircraft. If they change their minds subsequently of interpret it differently at a later stage then that will be that.

[AC-DC]

Porridge
My Instructor is a long time friend. He holds CAA & FAA instructor and examiner ratings. He allways does the bi-annuals for and does not charge. Do I still need to get the DoT permission?

Thanks

[porridge]

AC-DC
If you do it on a G-reg I would presume it's no problem. I do them on G-reg and charge too. It's only on your own N-reg aircraft where the problem occurs I am led to understand.

[IO540]

If the instructor isn't paid then there is no problem. The DfT told me this very clearly.

Cathar has been here before, warning of this and that, but there are so many axe grinders hanging about the N-reg training scene (with a wide variety of motives, none of which are ever disclosed) that none of these posts can really be relied on on their content alone, without careful checking.

What got this business going was the well publicised prosecution of D Kenyon. Prior to that, virtually nobody knew that the DfT would routinely hand out the training permissions to owners. It was during the court case that this amazing fact came out. Neither the CAA nor the DfT ever publicised it prior to that, which is quite bizzare since one would assume it is in their interest for people to remain within the law.

In the end, none of this really matters because those who can't arrange for an instructor to do it FOC will take a cheap flight to Florida :O And exactly who benefits from that? Exactly nobody (outside Florida, of course).